2 Peter 3:10 The Big Whoosh

[CadyandZoe]

Not fulfilled completely. It was the beginning of the fulfillment. Joel, who Peter was quoting, indicated that the fulfillment would occur in "the last days". The last days had begun already back then and lead up to the day of Christ's second coming (2 Peter 3:3-4).

Don't you understand that prophecies can have an ongoing fulfillment? I know you do because you believe the prophecies regarding the day of the Lord have an ongoing fuilfillment over a thousand year period. So, why are you acting as if you can't understand this concept?

I maintain that Joel chapter 2 was NOT fulfilled in any way at Pentecost. You need to maintain a distinction between "similar" and "same."

 

[CadyandZoe]

No I am not reading into the words written by Luke. At least it is commonly acknowledged that Luke is the author of the book of Acts. I agree that Luke does not say the prophecy is entirely fulfilled. That's obvious because the fulfillment will not be complete until all who call upon the name of the Lord are saved. But Luke clearly states the prophesy of Joel was fulfilled at Pentecost, and that cannot be reconciled unless we understand the fulfillment did not end at Pentecost, but only began there and will not end until the final Day of the Lord comes after time on this earth shall be no more.

There is another explanation. Peter is claiming that Pentecost is similar to Joel 2, not a fulfillment of Joel 2.

Prove what you allege! Bring forth the Scripture to defend your assumption that whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord for salvation is merely salvation from physical death.

Study and meditate on the prophet Joel. Or watch my two short videos on the subject.

 

[CadyandZoe]

This appears to me to be your view, but it is not biblical. Where can we find verses that speak of God's need to vindicate Himself?

Isaiah 52:3-6
Ezekiel 36-16-21

Summary:
A. Blaspheme

1. Yahweh sent his people into exile
2. The nations interpret this as weakness
3. The nations blaspheme Yahweh saying he is not God Almighty
4. The nations blaspheme Yahweh, in that he was unable to keep a people for himself.

B. Vindication

1. Yahweh will bring his people back from exile.
2. He will pour out his spirit on them.
3. He will circumcise their hearts.
4. He will bless them materially
5. He will bring her enemies against her
6. He will defeat them before her eyes.
7. The world will witness

 

[CadyandZoe]

No argument mode whatsoever, just shutting down your attempts to establish "False Dostrine" it's that simple

Your analogy is "False", as your original statement was they will experience the NHNE in their "Lifetime"

"Lifetime" is while a person is a living human on earth, your claim Joe living a prosperous Christian life equals the NHNE is false

The NHNE takes place "After" the second coming and final judgment by fire, this earth will be dissolved by fire, then the NHNE is revealed for eternity

Jesus Is The Lord

My view is only false if it is wrong.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I have explained my belief in great detail, you might disagree, but it has been clearly explained

Well, if the passage doesn't mention the GT then your disagreement doesn't mean much. Just sayin'

 

[CadyandZoe]

You are backpeddling in your claim now

You initially stated "All Believers" experience the NHNE in "Their Lifetime"

Your aren't going to push false doctrine unchecked, your claims are false

Did Jesus continue to have a lifetime after his resurrection? I think so, don't you?

 

[CadyandZoe]

False, you will note your claims aren't supported by scripture

Consider the explorer. All he can do is tell you all about the dangers he faced and the wonders he saw. You can believe him or not.

 

[Truth7t7]

My view is only false if it is wrong.

Your claims are a trilogy, they are 1.) "False", 2.) "Wrong", and 3.) "Not Found In Scripture"

 

[Truth7t7]

Consider the explorer. All he can do is tell you all about the dangers he faced and the wonders he saw. You can believe him or not.

I grew up with many explorers in my neighborhood, LSD was their drug of choice, those explorers are dead now

I will believe the words of God and be led by the Holy Spirit of truth, no need to follow the explorer

Your claims are False, Wrong, and not found in scripture, it's that simple

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

Did Jesus continue to have a lifetime after his resurrection? I think so, don't you?

Once Again, You are backpeddling in your initial claim made

You initially stated "All Believers" experience the NHNE in "Their Lifetime"

Your aren't going to push false doctrine unchecked, your claims are false

 

[Truth7t7]

Isaiah 52:3-6
Ezekiel 36-16-21

Summary:
A. Blaspheme

1. Yahweh sent his people into exile
2. The nations interpret this as weakness
3. The nations blaspheme Yahweh saying he is not God Almighty
4. The nations blaspheme Yahweh, in that he was unable to keep a people for himself.

B. Vindication

1. Yahweh will bring his people back from exile.
2. He will pour out his spirit on them.
3. He will circumcise their hearts.
4. He will bless them materially
5. He will bring her enemies against her
6. He will defeat them before her eyes.
7. The world will witness

Your claims are "Dreamland" found no place in scripture

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your claims are a trilogy, they are 1.) "False", 2.) "Wrong", and 3.) "Not Found In Scripture"

Okay. Thank you for your help.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your claims are "Dreamland" found no place in scripture

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

Okay. I gave you passages to consider. Whether you do or not is up to you.

 

[Timtofly]

Chaotic Confusion

Ignorance is bliss?

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

 

[rwb]

Your claim is "False" (The Day Of The Lord) is a "Future Event" that takes place at the Lord's second coming as seen below (The End)

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

Yes, I agree we are awaiting the last day which the New Testament Scriptures tells us is the Day of the Lord. And I also agree there will not be another ONE thousand years upon this earth because this earth will be utterly burned up by the fire that comes down from God, preparing the way for the NHNE, and the holy city New Jerusalem coming down from heaven. Everything then will have been made new again, and the saints will live with the Lord forever, and there will be no more curse of death, no more sin, righteousness alone will dwell there.

It appears our only disagreement here is of the Day of the Lord having come already and demonstrated with power from above through the promise of the Holy Spirit entering into the hearts of the saints at Pentecost. All the Old Covenant prophets foretell of the Day of the Lord that would come has been fulfilled, is being fulfilled and will finally be complete during this Messianic Gospel age, and when the final Day of the Lord comes to an end with the returning of the Lord as Judge and time shall be no more.

All the Old Covenant prophecies of the Day of the Lord coming point to the Messiah coming to earth a man. The prophets write no only of Christ coming as Savior/Redeemer, but speak of all that will be accomplished in this TIME. Because all that is written of the Messiah will not be accomplished in ONE Day. But all will be accomplished that is written of Him in the age or these last days the prophets also write of.

You quote Malachi 3:2 but leave out vs 1 that gives us the timing for when the Day of the Lord would be ushered in with the Lord being as a refiners fire, and like fullers' soap. Malachi tells us the Day of the Lord coming will be preceded by the Lord's messenger. We know from the New Testament the one being sent to prepare the way for the Day of the Lord that would come is John-the-Baptist.

Malachi 3:1 (KJV) Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Mark 1:2-3 (KJV) As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Mark 1:4 (KJV) John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Psalm 46 read in context speaks of far greater things then the earth melting. The Psalm also speaks of what will be accomplished through the works of the Lord at His coming. He will be with us, as our refuge always, He shall make wars to cease unto the ends of the earth, He breaks the bow, and removes the spear. He will be exalted among the heathen, and in the earth.

Psalm 46:6-11 (KJV) The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted. The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah. Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth. He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire. Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.

Matthew 28:20 (KJV) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Galatians 1:16 (KJV) To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Galatians 3:8 (KJV) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Zechariah's prophesy of the Day of the Lord that comes includes much more than vs 12. When read in context we discover that during this Day of the Lord that shall come living waters shall go out from Jerusalem. That is fulfilled as the Gospel of Christ was sent out from Jerusalem promising everlasting life to all who believe. And in the Day of the Lord, He shall be King over all the earth. This too was accomplished when Christ ascended to heaven and is seated on the right hand of the Father in His Kingdom of heaven, from where He rules over His whole creation.

Zechariah 14:1 (KJV) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

Zechariah 14:8-9 (KJV) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Nahum's prophesy speaks not only of the destruction that shall come, but also of the feet of him that brings good tidings, and makes known the way of peace. This too is accomplished as the Word of the Lord, the Gospel of salvation goes unto all the earth.

Nahum 1:15 (KJV) Behold upon the mountains the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace! O Judah, keep thy solemn feasts, perform thy vows: for the wicked shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off.

Luke 2:10 (KJV) And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Romans 10:15 (KJV) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

If we consider only what the prophets of old prophesy about the last Day of the Lord that shall come when Christ returns, then we see the Day of the Lord as bringing only wrath, judgment and destruction from the Almighty, but we altogether miss the prophesies that bring good news of the Savior Messiah who would come in His Day to save His people from their sins, and give eternal life to all who believe by grace through faith. The prophets bring good news of the Day of the Lord that would come and was fulfilled when "a child was born". The Day of the Lord is not only bad news that shall come on the final Day of the Lord that will come.

Isaiah 9:6-7 (KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

 

[Truth7t7]

Zechariah's prophesy of the Day of the Lord that comes includes much more than vs 12. When read in context we discover that during this Day of the Lord that shall come living waters shall go out from Jerusalem. That is fulfilled as the Gospel of Christ was sent out from Jerusalem promising everlasting life to all who believe. And in the Day of the Lord, He shall be King over all the earth. This too was accomplished when Christ ascended to heaven and is seated on the right hand of the Father in His Kingdom of heaven, from where He rules over His whole creation.

Zechariah 14:1 (KJV) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

Zechariah 14:8-9 (KJV) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Zechariah 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom "After" The Day Of The Lord Takes Place

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[rwb]

There is another explanation. Peter is claiming that Pentecost is similar to Joel 2, not a fulfillment of Joel 2.

Study and meditate on the prophet Joel. Or watch my two short videos on the subject.

Only in your imagination! I understand how difficult it would be for you to admit you are in error. Luke quoting Peter's words gives us two witnesses to the truth Peter spoke at Pentecost. Peter clearly states and Luke confirms by writing down:

Acts 2:16-17 (KJV) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

We might agree that all that Joel prophesied about Pentecost was not completely fulfilled on that day. I don't believe Joel thought it would be or he would not have written "in these LAST DAYS". But to deny what both Peter says and Luke records, saying "is similar to Joel" would destroy the fictional videos you continue to falsely claim as truth. I remember from Scripture how the Scribes and Pharisees denied Christ was the promised Messiah ordained to come, not because they did not know who Christ is, but because they did not want Him to take away any of their so-called glory, and honor they bestowed falsely upon themselves.

 

[rwb]

Isaiah 52:3-6
Ezekiel 36-16-21

Summary:
A. Blaspheme

1. Yahweh sent his people into exile
2. The nations interpret this as weakness
3. The nations blaspheme Yahweh saying he is not God Almighty
4. The nations blaspheme Yahweh, in that he was unable to keep a people for himself.

B. Vindication

1. Yahweh will bring his people back from exile.
2. He will pour out his spirit on them.
3. He will circumcise their hearts.
4. He will bless them materially
5. He will bring her enemies against her
6. He will defeat them before her eyes.
7. The world will witness

The Almighty Creator, The God of the Universe has no need to vindicate Himself! What you imagine God needs vindication of came by His Providence. Nothing happens outside the Providence of God. The Lord needs no vindication for all that He ordains shall come to pass. It shows a terrible misunderstanding of the Almighty to suggest He needs to be vindicated for what He has determined shall be done.

Isaiah 45:5-10 (KJV) I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

 

[rwb]

Zechariah 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom "After" The Day Of The Lord Takes Place

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

There are some things in the prophesy regarding the Day of the Lord coming that will not fit into the new creation, eternal Kingdom. The only way to find consistency with the words of the prophets is to understand the Day of the Lord they wrote of has not only a beginning Day in these last days that began at Pentecost, but also has a last Day (one) coming when the seventh angel begins to sound that time given this earth shall be no more.

 

[Truth7t7]

There are some things in the prophesy regarding the Day of the Lord coming that will not fit into the new creation, eternal Kingdom. The only way to find consistency with the words of the prophets is to understand the Day of the Lord they wrote of has not only a beginning Day in these last days that began at Pentecost, but also has a last Day (one) coming when the seventh angel begins to sound that time given this earth shall be no more.

I Strongly Disagree

The Day Of The Lord Is "Future", And Will Take Place At The Second Coming, On The Last Day (The End)