2 Peter 3:10 The Big Whoosh

[GEN2REV]

And was that a global destruction or some cities? You always misuse that verse when anyone that knows the story will know it is not a global killing.

Are the sinners of the world, and all the wicked, confined to just one city today?

The passages that speak of the Day of the Lord are clear that it will be all sinners, all the wicked throughout the world. It will most certainly be a worldwide killing.

"... I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity, and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible."
Isaiah 13:11

"... anyone who knows [the Bible] will know ..."

"... taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our LORD Jesus Christ: ..."
2 Thess. 1:8

Are these hypocrites confined to just one city today? Clearly not.

 

[GEN2REV]

I don't agree with the dichotomy you propose. The rhetorical question intends to convey neither one of the meanings you propose. The actual intent of the question proposes that a particular interpretation of this passage fails to make sense of the passage or convey what Peter actually meant to convey. The question is not meant to convey distrust in what Peter actually said.

One is always allowed to question whether a particular interpretation of a Bible passage makes sense of the passage. The rhetorical question found in the video proposes that a particular interpretation of this passage has not considered the practicality of remaining out of danger when something is destroyed.

I don't think I need to ask why construction workers remove themselves from an area where explosives are detonated. The explosive expert yells "fire in the hole" as fair warning that an explosive is about to be detonated and that anyone in the blast zone must quickly leave or that person will be hurt or killed.

A particular interpretation of this passage pictures Jesus entering a blast zone, which everyone understands is foolish. Since we all agree that Jesus would never do anything foolish, then we should at least consider whether that interpretation is the right one or not.

When the earth is destroyed, if it is destroyed, then the earth is a blast zone, which no one would enter. When the earth is destroyed all human life will be removed from the area for the safety of all. The idea that the earth will be destroyed the moment of Jesus coming defies common sense.

Right?

Wrong.

You are putting your own personal human logic and reasoning above God's. You are questioning His Words as if you know better than He does, as if you can, somehow, see things more clearly than He can.

You are dealing with God's Word in the same way you are dealing with those here who are attempting to correct you with plain Scripture; with a condescending arrogance that looks down on both as less than you and your knowledge of these matters.

You are convinced of what you have been taught by man (because it is taught nowhere in Scripture) and are perfectly comfortable twisting, and correcting, God's own Words to your liking.

Can you even perceive the pride in that?

 

[GEN2REV]

I don't agree. What you propose would only make sense if I had belief-authority over those who watch the video. I don't have that kind of authority.

So you admit you are not a Christian? Yes, that is a problem when you're teaching those who DO believe in Christ their own religion. If an Atheist teaches Christianity, that is a conflict of interest. Even if you do believe in A god, you are teaching those who believe in Christ a totally different gospel.

Secondly, at the end of the video it states, "If this video has been helpful to your own studies . . ." This statement clearly defines my standpoint with regard to the content. I assume, as every Christian should, that each individual Christian is answerable to Christ alone; each Christian is performing independent study of what Jesus said, and each Christian is free to agree or disagree with the message contained within.

It doesn't matter that you're stating disclaimers at the ends of your videos. You know as well as anyone that young people, and young in the Faith, may not be sticklers for knowing the entire Bible. You are being fraudulent in creating material based on the premise of a specific verse/passage of Scripture and then teaching it in your own way, not at all how it is presented in the Bible.

I am not in some corner, attempting to attract a following, or make disciples for myself.

When you present anything on a world stage, you are absolutely inviting people to follow and believe what you have to offer. Again, young Christians can't be expected to know the entire Bible, and they are searching within the only medium many of them are familiar with. It is on you to make certain you are not adding or subtracting, twisting or altering, Scripture in any way whatsoever from how it is presented in the Bible.

Finally, I have NEVER made a video concerning the subject of the Trinity Doctrine. ... I avoid discussions of the Trinity Doctrine...

Nobody brought up the trinity but you. That is an obvious diversion tactic as the deity of Christ is not at all reliant on the trinity doctrine in order to be legitimate. Christ is unquestionably God and the Bible makes that clear throughout. If you don't believe Christ is God, you are not a Christian and have no business even speaking of the finer details of the Faith.

On a side note, I find heretic hunting to be distasteful, especially considering current events. But the fundamentalists of the 1800's where not heretic hunters. These folks were separatists. These folks believed in the five fundamentals of the Christian faith, and they taught them from the pulpit. But they did not seek out others for the purpose of ridicule, shaming or punishment. They removed themselves from society, to form churches where they might freely believe and worship as conscience would dictate. Blessed are the peacemakers, Jesus said.

The Bible is clear that True Christians challenge False Teachers and their doctrine for the duration of their time in the flesh. It is fundamental to the Faith. And you know nothing of what went on in the 1800's among Christians. Fire and Brimstone Preachers were abundant well into the 1900's. It is the PC police of the 20th Century, coupled with the corruption of Seminaries and Bible Universities, that finally put them to an end.

So how do you know that I disagree with the Trinity Doctrine? Was I promoting my own views anywhere? No. I was asked a direct question and since I would never lie about what I believe, even in the face of heretic hunters, I answered truthfully, or at least what I believe to be true.

More random trinity diversion, Wrangler.

 

[GEN2REV]

So this is your argument? Anyone who fails to agree with you is corrupt and associated with a corrupt organization? In my observation, those who lack confidence in a particular position, or can't actually argue for a particular position, attack the man himself instead. You question my ethics and my reliability rather than defending your own view. Why would you take this route? Is your position so weak?

I am unaffected by anybody questioning the strength of my positions, or my confidence in any stance that I take, I have no need to concern myself.

Failing to agree with me is not the issue. It's the opposition of God's plain Word that is the problem.

My positions are rooted in the Rock-Solid Word of God Almighty. For my opinions, or positions, to be in any danger at all, God's Word would have to be in some level of danger. And that is absolutely impossible. So that doesn't concern me in the least.

What does concern me is anybody placing themselves in a position of feigned authority on God's Word and then misrepresenting it to the masses. Worst of all, those who pridefully refuse to hear anyone correct them with plain Scripture. That is a sure sign of corruption and the pushing of an agenda. Whether you are aware of that or not.

And that is why I even referred to those you feel back you up in your positions. Because either you are fully aware that you are wrong, or you have no clue and are just putting your faith in those who have taught you these things, or who support your faulty positions.

 

[Truth7t7]

Hello Christian Gedge!
I do still see that all things alive, dead, silver, gold...ALL things on, above and beneath will one day be destroyed...refined by fire? And a new earth will be made.

"...the whole earth will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live on the earth.

"The whole world will be consumed by the fire of my jealous anger."

This earth will be "dissolved" by the Lord's fire in final judgement, down to its very "elements", it will be a New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem,

"Behold I Make All Things New"

2 Peter 3:10-13 KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

A New Creation, Behold, I Make All Things New

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Wrong.

You are putting your own personal human logic and reasoning above God's. You are questioning His Words as if you know better than He does, as if you can, somehow, see things more clearly than He can.

You are dealing with God's Word in the same way you are dealing with those here who are attempting to correct you with plain Scripture; with a condescending arrogance that looks down on both as less than you and your knowledge of these matters.

You are convinced of what you have been taught by man (because it is taught nowhere in Scripture) and are perfectly comfortable twisting, and correcting, God's own Words to your liking.

Can you even perceive the pride in that?

I am going to interpret this post as one who has no reasons for what he believes, and an ability to interact with another person's ideas.

 

[CadyandZoe]

My positions are rooted in the Rock-Solid Word of God Almighty.

So are mine.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You're welcome to your opinion. But don't think that by repeating the same old arguments that they become any stronger. You've not in the least been able to argue the main argument against your view, which is that the Bible says, repeatedly, that the *earth is forever.* So universal dissolution of elements means, for me, a Bible believer, that elements dissolve all across the earth in universal locations. And the purpose is to remove pagan control of the world, as the Bible itself says.

I actually agree that it's not referring to the complete annihilation of the earth. However, I do believe it is referring to the complete destruction (burning up) of the entire surface of the earth. Otherwise, why did Peter compare that event directly to the flood in Noah's day?

2 Peter 3:3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I actually agree that it's not referring to the complete annihilation of the earth. However, I do believe it is referring to the complete destruction (burning up) of the entire surface of the earth. Otherwise, why did Peter compare that event directly to the flood in Noah's day?

2 Peter 3:3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Right, exactly.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Very well put together video. Pity the detail that you present is not true.

I haven't watched it (and don't plan to), but this isn't surprising.

Nowhere does Peter teach that the day of the Lord equals a literal period of one thousand years+ and an unknown period of time after that for Satan’s little season. Premillennialists force that upon 2 Peter 3. That chapter powerfully shows the wholesale climactic destruction of the universe (including the solar system) that arrives unexpectedly when the day of the Lord arrives. The onset of this day catches the mockers and scoffers in the narrative sneeringly rejecting the promise of His coming in the blazing conflagration.

Not only does the day of the Lord arrive suddenly, but the devastation accompanying it does also. In fact, the actual day in view is marked by wholesale fiery destruction. Individual days in Scripture are normally presented in such a clear and obvious detail, to show us what marks its continuation.

The meaning and actual length of the day mentioned here (however long it is), must relate to a specific time-period in which the detail described in the narrative continues throughout its duration. To argue otherwise is to totally deny the meaning of the passage. Moreover, whatever is portrayed within the aforementioned day is introduced suddenly to this kosmos – “like a thief in the night.” David Brown, in his classic book ‘Christ’s Second coming: Will it be Premillennial?’ rightly explains, “terms and phrases, expressive of perpetuity, are to be stretched no further than the known duration of the thing spoken.”

Our Premillennialist brethren make much of the linkage between Revelation 20 and 2 Peter 3; however, it is this very connection that highlights the inconsistency of their position. A close analysis of both passages illustrates the error of this comparison and underlines the many glaring contradictions in their school of thought. In fact, the core of the Premillennial confusion is seen in their correlation of the “thousand years” mentioned in Revelation 20 with the arrival and duration of “the day of the Lord” (2 Peter 3). Premils build their corroboration of Revelation 20 on a mistaken interpretation of 2 Peter 3:5-9, which says, “one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” From this, Premils insist on the idea that the day of the Lord is to last a literal 1,000 years – terminating with the fiery destruction.

Even if they were correct that their is a direct relation between 2 Peter 3:8 and Revelation 20 and that the day of the Lord will last for a thousand years with the fiery destruction Peter described happening at the end of it, their view still does not allow for Satan's little season to occur after the thousand years. They have everything being burned up already before that. So, how do they get around this? They just extend the day of the Lord by "a little season", which is obviously ridiculous. Either take the thousand years literally or don't. Changing it to a thousand years plus a little season instead of just a thousand years is clearly a case of doctrinal bias.

As you and I know, the thousand years referenced in 2 Peter 3:8 has no direct relation to the thousand years referenced in Revelation 20. What Peter was saying in 2 Peter 3:8-9 is that no amount of time makes any difference to the Lord since time does not affect Him (He created time), so no one can say that He is being slow to fulfill the promise of His second coming. That's it. It has nothing to do with the the thousand years of Revelation 20 whatsoever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Right, exactly.

So, when exactly do you believe the entire surface of the earth will be burned up as it relates to the timing of Christ's return?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't see any timing clues in his exhortation. As he says, the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night, which means that his coming is indeterminate. All we really know is that the promise hasn't been fulfilled yet and some people will grow impatient.
What did you have in mind?

I think you missed his point. I believe what he is getting at is what does the timing of the fulfillment of "His promise" indicate about verses 4, 9 and 13?

According to verses 3 and 4 the last days scoffers are scoffing at the promise of the Lord's second coming, right? So, in light of that, let's look at verses 9 and 13.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

This seems pretty clear. This is indicating that the Lord is not slow in keeping His promise to come again. Agree?

2 Peter 3:13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

To me, this verse is a problem for Premils like yourself. This indicates that we are looking forward to the eternal new heavens and new earth in fulfillment of the Lord keeping His promise to come again. Premils, however, believe that we are looking forward to a temporal earthly millennial kingdom in fulfillment of the Lord keeping His promise to come again. Peter didn't seem to know anything about a future temporal earthly kingdom.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I think you missed his point. I believe what he is getting at is what does the timing of the fulfillment of "His promise" indicate about verses 4, 9 and 13?

According to verses 3 and 4 the last days scoffers are scoffing at the promise of the Lord's second coming, right? So, in light of that, let's look at verses 9 and 13.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

This seems pretty clear. This is indicating that the Lord is not slow in keeping His promise to come again. Agree?

2 Peter 3:13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

To me, this verse is a problem for Premils like yourself. This indicates that we are looking forward to the eternal new heavens and new earth in fulfillment of the Lord keeping His promise to come again. Premils, however, believe that we are looking forward to a temporal earthly millennial kingdom in fulfillment of the Lord keeping His promise to come again. Peter didn't seem to know anything about a future temporal earthly kingdom.

This is not a problem for my view. If a couple is looking forward to a new baby, then once the baby is consummated, a nine month wait is understood. The coming of the Lord is like the consummation of the Day of the Lord. It is understood that the The New Heavens and New Earth comes a thousand years later.

 

[CadyandZoe]

So, when exactly do you believe the entire surface of the earth will be burned up as it relates to the timing of Christ's return?

Peter is talking specifically about the Day of the Lord, during which God vindicates his holy name. That time period begins with the Second Advent and ends at the final judgment.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Peter is talking specifically about the Day of the Lord, during which God vindicates his holy name. That time period begins with the Second Advent and ends at the final judgment.

Peter indicated that the heavens and earth would be burned up upon the arrival of the day of the Lord. You say it begins with the Second Advent and I agree. But, I disagree that it refers to a long period of time as you believe. Why do you have the heavens and earth not being burned up until 1,000+ years later after the day of the Lord first arrives like a thief in the night? There is no indication of that in 2 Peter 3 whatsoever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is not a problem for my view. If a couple is looking forward to a new baby, then once the baby is consummated, a nine month wait is understood. The coming of the Lord is like the consummation of the Day of the Lord. It is understood that the The New Heavens and New Earth comes a thousand years later.

I don't think you know what the word "consummation" means. It doesn't refer to the beginning of something as you are saying here in relation to the beginning of the day of the Lord. Instead, it refers to the end of something that makes that thing complete. So, the consummation of the day of the Lord would be the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth, not something that occurs 1,000+ years earlier as you believe.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

According to reason and observation. To take it literally and straightforwardly is not the way Peter meant it according to Peter himself.

Where did Peter indicate that what he wrote in 2 Peter 3 was not meant to be taken literally and straightforwardly?

 

[Keraz]

Doesn't Revelation say that the Trumpets will affect a third of the world?

Please make a distinction between the Sixth Seal, the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, and the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, which will be in the 3 1/2 year time of Great Tribulation.
The Bible does, why don't you keep them separate?

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

A correct translation of Nahum 1:5 The mountains quake before Him and the hills crumble. The earth is in tumult at His Presence, the world and all who live within it.
There will be no universal destruction when Jesus Returns. That idea is wrong and unscriptural.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is common knowledge, and sense, that it means it will be completely unexpected; it will creep up on the world.

Does that sound like a thousand year event to you?

What is unexpected and catching anybody off guard about a thousand year event?

Exactly! The Premil understanding of the day of the Lord does NOT have it coming unexpectedly like a thief in the night. Why can't they understand that?

Since the day of the Lord will come unexpectedly like a thief in the night then that means what Peter describes as happening on the day of the Lord (the burning up of the heavens, elements and the earth and its works) must happen immediately upon the arrival of the day of the Lord. If the destruction occurred long after the day of the Lord initially arrives then it could not be said that the day of the Lord came as a thief in the night.

In 1 Thess 5:2-3, Paul indicated that the destruction will be "sudden" and it would be so complete that "they will not escape". That means it must happen immediately upon the arrival of the day of the Lord. How else can it happen unexpectedly and to the point where no one can escape it?

Whatever organization, church or whatever, that has you so confident in your positions on things is about as corrupt as it could possibly be. You are prideful in your disregard for God's Word, but He laughs at your pride.

Those who disregard plain Scripture, no matter their numbers, or organization, are like dust in the wind. The vast majority of big name pastors and preachers in the spotlight today are utterly corrupt in their teaching, and explanations, of God's Word.

Humble yourself, pray for forgiveness and study the Bible on your own for a few years, paying very close attention to exactly what it says.

Agree. We have some very deceived people on this forum. Some have deluded themselves and some have been deluded by the teachings of their incompetent pastors and teachers.

 

[jeffweeder]

Peter is talking specifically about the Day of the Lord, during which God vindicates his holy name. That time period begins with the Second Advent and ends at the final judgment.

This happens at the same time. The second advent ushers in Eternity and the hope of a NHNE. Peter in no way has a 1000 gap between the Lords promised second advent and his hope of a NHNE.

Peter shared Paul's view and considered it scripture.

14 So, beloved, since you are looking forward to these things, be diligent and make every effort to be found by Him [at His return] spotless and blameless, in peace [that is, inwardly calm with a sense of spiritual well-being and confidence, having lived a life of obedience to Him]. 15 And consider the patience of our Lord [His delay in judging and avenging wrongs] as salvation [that is, allowing time for more to be saved]; just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given to him [by God], 16 speaking about these things as he does in all of his letters. In which there are some things that are difficult to understand, which the untaught and unstable [who have fallen into error] twist and misinterpret, just as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 Therefore, [let me warn you] beloved, knowing these things beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of [c]unprincipled men [who distort doctrine] and fall from your own steadfastness [of mind, knowledge, truth, and faith], 18 but grow [spiritually mature] in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be glory (honor, majesty, splendor), both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.


This is what Peter is alluding to in his letter...,

Paul 2 thess 1
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

11 With this in view, we constantly pray for you, that our God will count you worthy of your calling [to faith] and with [His] power fulfill every desire for goodness, and complete [your] every work of faith, 12 so that the name of our Lord Jesus will be glorified in you [by what you do], and you in Him, according to the [precious] grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.