2 Thessalonians 2:7

[CharismaticLady]

this is hard to see. And would be hard to accomplish if we think of it.

If there was a secret rapture, then 7 years later another rapture when Jesus comes, I think the apostles would teach both in one letter. And Jesus too in the gospels. Yes, there will be a rapture, but only one when Jesus actually comes back and every eye shall see Him.

 

[CharismaticLady]

yes, It will not be just jews who are saved. People from all nations will find Christ,

What makes you say that? After the Antichrist is revealed, I see only Jews actually coming to Christ for the first time.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If there was a secret rapture, then 7 years later another rapture when Jesus comes, I think the apostles would teach both in one letter. And Jesus too in the gospels. Yes, there will be a rapture, but only one when Jesus actually comes back and every eye shall see Him.

Yet when the rapture is mentioned. It does not say every eye will see him. It is a time of resurrection. There will be a time of judgment, All will be rewarded. And given their crowns of life and robes of righteousness. They are even seen in heave in Johns visions before christ returns.

The return of Christ he will hve his armies with him. Already judged, Already armed.. Kind of hard for Jesus to ressurct. Hold the bema seat judgment, Teach his armies what they need to do. And then come back all in the same moment of time.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What makes you say that? After the Antichrist is revealed, I see only Jews actually coming to Christ for the first time.

Because people from every nation tribe and tongue are seen as martyres.

I believe the 144000 are jewish missionaries who came to Christ and are commissioned to go into the word to lead the world to christ in a powerful way.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yet when the rapture is mentioned. It does not say every eye will see him. It is a time of resurrection. There will be a time of judgment, All will be rewarded. And given their crowns of life and robes of righteousness. They are even seen in heave in Johns visions before christ returns.

The return of Christ he will hve his armies with him. Already judged, Already armed.. Kind of hard for Jesus to ressurct. Hold the bema seat judgment, Teach his armies what they need to do. And then come back all in the same moment of time.

I need your scripture references please for each point.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Because people from every nation tribe and tongue are seen as martyres.

I believe the 144000 are jewish missionaries who came to Christ and are commissioned to go into the word to lead the world to christ in a powerful way.

Remember that "every nation tribe and tongue" are Gentiles. The fullness of the Gentiles has already come into the church before the GT starts. They will be martyred during the GT, but only Israel will actually be new believers and join the Church during the GT. Romans 11 and Revelation 7

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I need your scripture references please for each point.

You do not know the bema seat? 1 cor 3
Where we meat Jesus in the clouds? (1 thess 4)
Where the raptured are in heaven? (Rev 4 and rev 7)
The return of Jesus his army (rev 19) to defeat the armies of satan?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Remember that "every nation tribe and tongue" are Gentiles. The fullness of the Gentiles has already come into the church before the GT starts. They will be martyred during the GT, but only Israel will actually be new believers and join the Church during the GT. Romans 11 and Revelation 7

True

But those nations still exist. And people re still saved them/ Gentiles were saved during the age of Israel.

The age of the gentile is a time given for their rule over jerusalem. Not who is saved.

 

[CharismaticLady]

True

But those nations still exist. And people re still saved them/ Gentiles were saved during the age of Israel.

The age of the gentile is a time given for their rule over jerusalem. Not who is saved.

There is a total difference between the time of the Gentiles, and the fullness of the Gentiles. They are unrelated.

2 Thessalonians 2 shows God putting a strong delusion on all Gentiles to follow after the Antichrist. At least, that is the way I read it. Combined with Romans 11, only Jews will be saved. Christians are on the earth during the Great Tribulation until the one and only rapture happens at the second coming.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is a total difference between the time of the Gentiles, and the fullness of the Gentiles.

2 Thessalonians 2 shows God putting a strong delusion on all Gentiles to follow after the Antichrist. At least, that is the way I read it. Combined with Romans 11, only Jews will be saved. Christians are on the earth during the Great Tribulation until the one and only rapture happens at the second coming.

Ok. I can not see this,

Never in the history of the world has God withheld the truth of any nation group.

The jews are said to be protected. So satan can not touch them. yet in rev 6, we hear of martyres killed for their testimony.

These are gentile believers in my view.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You do not know the bema seat? 1 cor 3

I don't see the bema seat in 1 Cor. 3. What verses?

Where the raptured are in heaven? (Rev 4

Where in chapter 4?

Where the raptured are in heaven? (Rev 7)

The martyrs are dead. This isn't about a secret rapture

The return of Jesus his army (rev 19) to defeat the armies of satan?

I agree, it is the second coming, but with the angels and the dead in Christ (1 Thes 4) not the living who were raptured 7 years prior.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Ok. I can not see this,

Never in the history of the world has God withheld the truth of any nation group.

The jews are said to be protected. So satan can not touch them. yet in rev 6, we hear of martyres killed for their testimony.

These are gentile believers in my view.

What is the strong delusion for? And on whom?

(I will be back later)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What is the strong delusion for? And on whom?

(I will be back later)

On those who have no desire to find christ. He gives a delusion

Many gentiles I know are not that way, Yet have not yet made a decision. If the rapture would happen (I am not saying when I believe because basically. If I cant prove it, I will not profess it as truth) but if it does. And these people go through. They may easily be won over by the 144000 jewish missionaries spread through out the world.

 

[CharismaticLady]

On those who have no desire to find christ. He gives a delusion

Many gentiles I know are not that way, Yet have not yet made a decision. If the rapture would happen (I am not saying when I believe because basically. If I cant prove it, I will not profess it as truth) but if it does. And these people go through. They may easily be won over by the 144000 jewish missionaries spread through out the world.

In Romans 11, what does the fullness of the Gentiles come in mean? I see it then goes to saving Israel.

 

[Taken]

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. in your opinion who is he who letteth

Only "he" (the Lord God), now letteth will let...
Until "he" ( that man of sin, the son of perdition, be taken out of the way.

[3] ..."that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Paul Christensen]

We have always had tribulation here and there, but the "great" tribulation is world-wide.

It is surprising that you haven't responded in the thread about the False 7yr Tribulation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In Romans 11, what does the fullness of the Gentiles come in mean? I see it then goes to saving Israel.

It means that the full time of gentile dominion over jerusalem is completed or accomplished.

Ie, Nebuchadnezzars Statue is hit by the rock. The messiah has assumed his throne.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It is surprising that you haven't responded in the thread about the False 7yr Tribulation.

Haven't seen it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It means that the full time of gentile dominion over jerusalem is completed or accomplished.

That is the "time" of the Gentiles, not the "fullness" of the Gentiles. Read the context of Romans 11. It is about the Gentiles being grafted into the Church. The "fullness" of this grafting of Gentiles seems to have a limit, and then the prophecies concerning Israel will be fulfilled and they will live in His presence. Like the paradigms before it, it will be a period of 7 years starting with the revealing of the Antichrist (2 Thes.)

 

[Paul Christensen]

Haven't seen it.

The False Doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation