22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[jeffweeder]

Dreamers nonsense.

I am not dreaming at all. Jesus makes it clear he comes to receive us at his coming.... And we see him coming...See I am wide awake.
Therefore we put on a glorious body like his at that time.

[ Quote Keraz ] These verses refer to what happens after the GWT Judgment.
NO ONE receives 'glorification', whatever that is, or immortality until the GWT Judgment, when the Book of Life is opened.]

I agree.

This happens at his 2nd coming ,and there is evidently no room for a future millennium .


Time to wake up and fix your eyes on Jesus teaching.

Matt 25
"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

The millennium in no way resembles Eden ( the foundation of the world ) does it Keraz?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am not dreaming at all. Jesus makes it clear he comes to receive us at his coming.... And we see him coming...See I am wide awake.
Therefore we put on a glorious body like his at that time.

[ Quote Keraz ] These verses refer to what happens after the GWT Judgment.
NO ONE receives 'glorification', whatever that is, or immortality until the GWT Judgment, when the Book of Life is opened.]

I agree.

This happens at his 2nd coming ,and there is evidently no room for a future millennium .


Time to wake up and fix your eyes on Jesus teaching.

Matt 25
"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

The millennium in no way resembles Eden does it Keraz?

Exactly. I've made this same argument to him several times and he just tries to gloss over it instead of accepting what it clearly indicates, which is that believers will be rewarded and unbelievers will be condemned at His return and not 1000+ years later.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Say what now? Not sure what you're talking about.

It hasn't gone anywhere. Do you think you display that on this forum all the time? Hardly. Don't judge me, Randy. Deal with yourself first.

Is that how you think you come across on here? LOL. Hardly. Please don't preach to me, Randy. I don't need you to do that.

LOL. What? You don't know me at all. You couldn't be more wrong. You need to just stop, Randy. Don't act like you know me. You don't know me even a tiny bit.

LOL. You are killing me here, Randy. You don't have a clue of what you're talking about. Not whatsoever.

LOL. You need to look in the mirror, Randy. You obviously have no self awareness.

Nothing besides being a sinner in need of God's grace. What is wrong with you?

I don't need your help and don't want your help. This is beyond hilarious. You are acting as if you know me when you don't even know me a tiny bit. What is wrong with you that makes you think you can know someone just by what they say about end times doctrine? Come on, man.

And you haven't ever been that way? Sure you have. Stop being holier than thou. It's not a good look.

Get off your high horse, Randy.

It's called discernment, brother, and in this case it isn't difficult. I'm not "holier than you." Yes, we all have the same problems. You just seem stuck in a problem right now because I hear a constant ring of, "I can't take it any more."

So I just want you to know these things aren't very deep with me, emotionally. We differ on Amil vs Premil. Big deal! It doesn't take us out of God's grace. And it shouldn't cause us to fall out with one another. If you feel fine today, great. If a person falls into a hole, he needs someone else to pull him out. I welcome that from you when I'm in the pit!

 

[Keraz]

Exactly. I've made this same argument to him several times and he just tries to gloss over it instead of accepting what it clearly indicates, which is that believers will be rewarded and unbelievers will be condemned at His return and not 1000+ years later.

This I do agree with. Jesus will bring our rewards with Him. Matthew 16:27

I am not dreaming at all. Jesus makes it clear he comes to receive us at his coming.... And we see him coming...See I am wide awake.
Therefore we put on a glorious body like his at that time.

This conflicts with the prophesies describing the period after Jesus Returns. Isaiah 65:20 says that people will die and Revelation 20:4-5 says the resurrected martyrs may die a second time.
The change into immortality cannot be at the Return, it comes after the GWT Judgment; a thousand years later.
If you like to think there will be no Millennium, despite ample proof of the final 1000 years, then I hope you are ready for God to Judge you.

 

[jeffweeder]

This I do agree with. Jesus will bring our rewards with Him. Matthew 16:27

This conflicts with the prophesies describing the period after Jesus Returns. Isaiah 65:20 says that people will die and Revelation 20:4-5 says the resurrected martyrs may die a second time.
The change into immortality cannot be at the Return, it comes after the GWT Judgment; a thousand years later.
If you like to think there will be no Millennium, despite ample proof of the final 1000 years, then I hope you are ready for God to Judge you.

Jesus clearly contradicts your interpretation of those prophecies. He is silent on the subject. The millennium has to be now if the Lord is to be listened to.

 

[The Light]

LOL. What kind of an argument is this? Both passages talk about His coming from heaven. Your argument seems to be that they can't be the same event just because they don't contain all the same details. What nonsense. Are there any contradictory details between the two passages? No. So, what is the basis for saying they are different events? Nothing you said here backs up that claim at all.

mmm. Has the blindness reached the point that you don't understand the difference between the Lord Himself coming for His bride and the Lord sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth? Seems pretty cut and dried.

 

[Truth7t7]

And this is a 2nd attempt to get you to give me a quote. I could say that you said God is the devil, but I wouldn't be able to quote any actual words that you wrote along those lines.

Another non response, running from my question below in complete diversion

And you add to that total "nonsense" seen in bold red above "Sick" in my opinion, way out in left field and off topic

The reason you didn't answer my question below is because it proves your claim of no resurrection being seen is 100% "Wrong"!

Rich please explain for the forum the words

"The Dead Shall Be Raised Incorruptible"?

Waiting?

1 Corinthians 15:52KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[jeffweeder]

mmm. Has the blindness reached the point that you don't understand the difference between the Lord Himself coming for His bride and the Lord sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth? Seems pretty cut and dried.

When does the Lord come for his Bride?
Why are the elect beneath the Bride?

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling;

1 Corinthians 12:24-25
24 But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that part which lacked,
25 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the parts may have the same care for one another.

 

[Taken]

22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine
OP ^

All well for you to state what you once believed and have abandoned.
However much of your bolstering for your abandonment is based on your admitted lack of understanding and presumptive opinions.

I look at things from a beginning basic point of view, before getting into the particulars.

* Straight off FROM very early Ancient History, Division among People was established and revealed;
Faithful Israel IS Gods People. Not the nation of Israel, the People God called Israel, “my People”.
* God made a covenant Promise to “His People Israel”, to neither fail nor forsake them, nor overlook times in their need of punishments for straying.
* When and How and Why of Gods Order and Way, For His People Israel was established is clear and AND as well the fostering IN of the Gentiles is expressed throughout the whole of Scriptures....revealing of WHAT applies to WHOM according to WHEN and WHY.
* Aside (regarding the PEOPLE), Gods Order and Way, regards the Earth, the express Habitat of all People.
* Regarding the PEOPLE, they all have individual Freewill to hear, learn, pick and choose to believe what they hear and learn, mull it over, waver back and forth, OR make vowed commitments to the Lord God.
* BY What individuals Freely Choose, establishes their individual relationship with the Lord God, (or without the Lord God).
* Nothing NEW under the sun. What WAS shall be again.
(Ecc 1:9)

* Reviewing the ancient history of what WAS, gives the basic insight to what SHALL be.

* Nothing New...
~ Believe IN the Lord God Almighty Forever...He SHALL Keep you forever WITH Him.
~ Vow your Belief IN the Lord God Almighty...You SHALL KNOW
Without Doubt, you ARE securely WITH Him Forever.

* Nothing New...
1) Gods Anger, Gods Jealousy, Gods Disappointment Regarding PEOPLE, WAXED Great.
2) Gods Anger, resulted in Gods Tribulations, God Sent down from Heaven...UPON mans Habitat...the Earth.
3) By Default, Gods Destructions upon the Face of the Earth, effected Destruction of People upon the Face of the Earth.

Gen 6:
[11] The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
[12] And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

* Nothing New...
4) Few were found Faithful unto God, and they were lifted up Above the face of the Earth, While God destroyed unFaithful them upon the face of the Earth, with the Earth.

Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

* Nothing New...
Gods Permanent assured Salvation is GIVEN AFTER a faithful believers, Bodily Death.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

* Nothing New...
* A Second (and last) great destruction of the (Earth) Habitat of People, shall occur.
* Divisions among the People ... Tribes/Jews/Gentiles, in agreement, in disagreements ... amongst themselves ... toward the Lord God...
WILL effect MASS deaths upon the face of the earth, and separation of the divided...of WHICH bodily Dead SHALL be forever with the Lord God and forever without the Lord God.

* Nothing New...
* They who already ARE Separated, from Them, shall be Lift Up off the face of the Earth, Not subject to Gods Anger, Gods Wrath, Gods Tribulation, Gods Last days of fulfilling His Promise to Save His People Israel, according to Gods Order and Way.

* Nothing New...
* God IS omnipresent. How and When and By what Name or Title God reveals to man the knowledge of His Presence, is silly for men to debate, or take staunch positions to rally AGAINST an other beliefs.

Take what YOU believe, by your own limited or exhaustive studies, and relationship With God to be content with YOUR OWN belief, and don’t worry about what is an other’s view, and worry even LESS, when the other’s view IS NOT by their own studies, but rather an other simply Adopting opinions and views of some other stranger party.

 

[The Light]

When does the Lord come for his Bride?

Matthew 24
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 25
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Why are the elect beneath the Bride?

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The plan was for Israel to be the first harvest as God saw the fathers of Israel as the first fruits of the first harvest. The fig tree has two harvests. However, Israel went to Baalpeor, or basically served other gods. They therefore would not be the first harvest. The Gentiles will become the first harvest.

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling;

1 Corinthians 12:24-25
24 But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that part which lacked,
25 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the parts may have the same care for one another.

And don't forget this....

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

So all believers end up in the same place. However, it does not happen at the same time, because Israel served other gods They also rejected the Messiah as was prophesied and part of them were blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

It is not until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in at the 1st harvest that part of Israel will have their blindness removed.

Jacob worked 7 more days for his chosen bride Rachel. The Church will be in heaven during the 70th week of Daniel when God turns His attention to His Chosen. Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood. The ancient wedding feast included seven full days of food, music, dancing and celebrations.

The Church, the bride will be in heaven during the 70th week of Daniel. But God has not forgotten His Chosen. They will also have a harvest and the 144,000 are the 1st fruits of this harvest.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

[Timtofly]

Well, there is this;

John 5:27,

And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.​

1 Cor 15:28,

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
​

Kind of weird that one part of God gave another part of God authority to execute judgment and then later one part of God is subject to another part.

All this shows is that in addition to mixing up peoples and times, most Christians also mix up the two main characters. No wonder the story is so mashed. It'd be like reading Moby Dick while thinking it took place last year in LA, and that Captain Ahab and the whale were the same person.

BTW, before you bring up John 1, please explain John 5:27 and 1 Cor 15:28. If you do that first, I'll be glad to address john 1. But for now, notice that the word "Jesus" is nowhere to be found in John 1:1 nor John 1:14. God uses the Greek word "logos" for the word most Christians read as "Jesus."

Genesis 1, God, the Word, and the Spirit. Jesus has a post resurrection body, even in the beginning. But not to confuse us, the Bible uses the Word to identify Jesus.

Why did God leave the GWT and was literally on the Cross? Because God so loved the world.

My point is the word Adonai/Lord is referring to all 3 at the same time, or given one a higher literary point in that particular verse. The verse in Psalms is the place where Lord is used to distinguish a physical body instead of the Word; 2 Lords. Some humans understood that Jesus had a post resurrection body, even in the OT. No one here seems that confused on what David was saying.

What could be confusing is can the physical body of Jesus be in two places at the same time? Who knows? Does not sound logical nor plausible, but impossible, no. Why would a person be worried about something happening 1,000 miles from their current location, if concerned about their immediate condition? We just normally don't think about two spatial locations at the same time. Obviously God can. If Jesus was physically at both locations, how would we even know?

It is not weird knowing God is sitting and has sat on the GWT since creation. That throne being part of creation, but will not be in the NHNE. Jesus came in human form to relate directly to Adam's dead corruptible flesh, without a sin nature. The Holy Spirit always working from within, on the level of our conscience, relating to our mind and heart.

In Adam's dead flesh, we are only body and soul. It is hard to even relate to the spirit side of creation without the Holy Spirit. Why would any one think God was confined to one person, that can only be in one place at one time? To me, the only time God was one and in one place in creation was the hour on the Cross, when God declared it is finished. But that is probably just me, as many think God turned His back on Jesus at that moment.

One last point. The Trinity only exist for this creation. What happens in the next reality will be totally different than this current experience. Even though we are told a few details, what happens next will not be what we even argue over in the here and now. Some will even disagree with that, because they take what is written about the coming Millennium and project it into the next reality.

Do you not think Jesus is a name and not the person? Of course names have always defined a person. But does the name Jesus define the Son of God different than every other person named Jesus? Seems the issue is that no one should have ever been given the name Jesus, but kind of hard to change the past, right?

 

[Rich R]

What was your reasoning for pointing that out? When it says that the dead in Christ will rise first it's talking about them being resurrected, right? So, what different does it make if the word "resurrection" was used there or not?

I would guess that God had some reason for using different words. I should point out that the Greek words for "rising" and "resurrection" are related but not identical, for whatever that's worth.

I don't think you and I are that far apart. I think our difference lies in the timing of events. At least we both understand we'll end up in paradise. When we get there we can look back and the events will be crystal clear! Monday night quarterback of sorts.

 

[Rich R]

Another non response, running from my question below in complete diversion

And you add to that total "nonsense" seen in bold red above "Sick" in my opinion, way out in left field and off topic

The reason you didn't answer my question below is because it proves your claim of no resurrection being seen is 100% "Wrong"!

Well, it's hard to answer a non-sequitur. Since I never said there is no resurrection, it'd be impossible to prove why I said there is no resurrection.

Rich please explain for the forum the words

"The Dead Shall Be Raised Incorruptible"?

Waiting?

If you stopped holding your breath you'd get more oxygen to your brain. I already told you, but here it goes again; "The dead shall be raised incorruptible" means the dead shall be raised incorruptible. Do you have anything to add to that?

 

[Timtofly]

"The Dead Shall Be Raised Incorruptible"?

Waiting?

1 Corinthians 15:52KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Do you plan on dying before the Second Coming? If so that phrase does not even describe you.

That phrase is for those alive at the Second Coming.

Now technically the word "changed" incorporates dying and resurrection all in the same instant. Certainly Adam's dead flesh is not going to make it to Paradise. It will be left behind as in death. Unless you plan on feeling like you are dying, and then immediately resurrected, it is not a resurrection.

 

[Timtofly]

Let's simplify it.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME EVENT.

1 Corinthians 15 occurs at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. We can see this coming in Matt24. This occurs at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Also, He sends His angels at this coming to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

Completely different than the coming of Jesus in 1 Thes 4. THE LORD HIMSELF COMES. The bridegroom is coming for the bride. This occurs at the trump of God or voice of God.

Two completely different comings as can be clearly seen in the Word. How is it that you do not understand these things? All you have to do is read what it says.

This is not totally correct. Paul puts them together in Titus 2. So you are taking verses and keeping them in isolation.

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."

This is still talking about the Second Coming.

Spiritual blindness is removed at the Second Coming. Because after the Second Coming, Satan himself will be walking out in the open, and at the 6th Trumpet his angels also will be loosed and walking about on the earth. Denying that God is seen on the GWT, and Jesus as King on earth after the 6th Seal is denying many other passages from God's Word.

The term GWT is found in Revelation 20, but already mentioned in the 6th Seal:

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb"

Since Adam, we have not been allowed to look on that face and live. We are in a state of spiritual separation, and sin prevents us. The whole point of the Second Coming, and the time of great trouble is the clash between the physical world of sin, and the spiritual creation that will not tolerate sin. Hence the point of all of this creation being cleansed by fire.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Do you plan on dying before the Second Coming? If so that phrase does not even describe you.

That phrase is for those alive at the Second Coming.

Now technically the word "changed" incorporates dying and resurrection all in the same instant. Certainly Adam's dead flesh is not going to make it to Paradise. It will be left behind as in death. Unless you plan on feeling like you are dying, and then immediately resurrected, it is not a resurrection.

2 things are implied as taking place at Christ's Return, 1) the dead saints of the past are raised, and 2) those still alive are caught up to be with Jesus and the resurrected saints. Only the dead are resurrected. Those caught up alive will not be resurrected. But *all* will be changed and given immortality.

The specific verse you're referring to may only be speaking of the dead who are to be raised from the dead. But their being changed cannot refer to them exclusively, since those left alive who will be caught up will likewise be changed. All the saints, living and dead, from the present age will be changed and rendered immortal.

Or perhaps I'm just not viewing the entire discussion in this regard?

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus clearly contradicts your interpretation of those prophecies. He is silent on the subject. The millennium has to be now if the Lord is to be listened to.

How so, if Jesus never said anything about it? Jesus never said it was now. Jesus never gave a time length. Sounds like you just make up words Jesus said, we are supposed to just "understand" somehow.

 

[Timtofly]

2 things are implied as taking place at Christ's Return, 1) the dead saints of the past are raised, and 2) those still alive are caught up to be with Jesus and the resurrected saints. Only the dead are resurrected. Those caught up alive will not be resurrected. But *all* will be changed and given immortality.

The specific verse you're referring to may only be speaking of the dead who are to be raised from the dead. But their being changed cannot refer to them exclusively, since those left alive who will be caught up will likewise be changed. All the saints, living and dead, from the present age will be changed and rendered immortal.

Or perhaps I'm just not viewing the entire discussion in this regard?

That is the accepted theological position.

Those in Christ are physically enjoying Paradise since the Cross. They don't need a resurrection. Us on earth are the only dead ones in Adam's sinful dead corruptible bodies.

Not sure how we think we know stuff about Paradise that many have been taught. Can you point out where those in Christ are still tasting death? If that were the case, souls would still be hanging out in Abraham's bosom yelling across the abyss at those in sheol.

Do you plan on going to Abraham's bosom or Paradise? If Paradise, then your permanent incorruptible physical body will be there as soon as the soul leaves Adam's dead corruptible body. 2 Corinthians 5:1.

 

[Rich R]

What was your reasoning for pointing that out? When it says that the dead in Christ will rise first it's talking about them being resurrected, right? So, what different does it make if the word "resurrection" was used there or not?

Read Matthew chapters 24 & 25 where Jesus was speaking to Israel about the end times. Notice all the calamities they will face, the same ones in Revelation. Also notice all the times he tells them to be alert, to look for signs, to be prepared and not get caught short handed.

Then Read 1 Thessalonians 4:13 through 5:5 where Paul was talking to Christians about their end times. Notice a complete lack of calamities which are instead replaced by the exhortation to comfort each other with this news. Also notice that Christians have no need to look for signs or times. Notice also in verse 3 the pronouns, "they" and "them" which describes the people who will experience inescapable destruction. "They" and "them" does not refer to those to whom Paul was speaking, i.e., the church. I'd say the "they" and "them" are those to whom Jesus spoke the words in Matthew, i.e., Israel.

Why do you think Jesus and Paul gave such different messages to Israel and the church? I value your input, so I'd be curious as to how you see this.

 

[The Light]

This is not totally correct. Paul puts them together in Titus 2. So you are taking verses and keeping them in isolation.

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."

This is still talking about the Second Coming.

No. This is not talking about the Second Coming. It is talking about the rapture where the Lord Himself comes for His bride, the Church. This is talking about 1 Thes 4.

Spiritual blindness is removed at the Second Coming. Because after the Second Coming, Satan himself will be walking out in the open, and at the 6th Trumpet his angels also will be loosed and walking about on the earth. Denying that God is seen on the GWT, and Jesus as King on earth after the 6th Seal is denying many other passages from God's Word.

The term GWT is found in Revelation 20, but already mentioned in the 6th Seal:

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb"

I am not following Satan and angels loosed at the 6th trumpet. Where are you getting that from?