22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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Randy Kluth

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Your claims are false again, personal attacks trying desperately to silence your opposition

I don't use Zionism in a derisive way in contempt, Truth7t7 isn't dishonest, a name caller, or a hater of Jews or those that support them, your claims are "False"!

Sounds like the liberal democrats shouting racist at anybody that would oppose them

Jesus Is The Lord

Why do you talk about yourself in the 3rd Person? Only people high on themselves do that. You wish to be your own critic? How convenient!

You don't fool me with the saying, "Jesus is Lord." If Jesus was your Lord, you would submit to other Christians and threat them kindly, even when disagreeing with them. You are one of the rudest "Christians" on this forum!

I'll be happy to treat you as a "good Christian" when you act like one. I'll be happy to recognize you are only stating theology about Israel when that is what you are actually doing, rather than condemn the Jewish People as evil "Zionists."

That is what you suggest in your use of the term "Zionist." Here's your opportunity to clarify, rather than justify.
 

Truth7t7

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God has always converted a remnant of Jews to keep their lamp burning until finally, it will come true the promise that they will be saved from their enemies, never to be oppressed again.
God has no respect of persons, does a Jewish murderer find favor in his eyes over a Hispanic, African, or Chinese, that hasn't 100% "NO"

Example: My name is Daniel I'm Jewish, I lie, steal, cheat, murder, whatever it takes

Jesus is returning in a few years, and I'm destined to be in his favor because I'm Jewish, don't believe me, ask Randy Kluth
 
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Truth7t7

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Why do you talk about yourself in the 3rd Person? Only people high on themselves do that. You wish to be your own critic? How convenient!

You don't fool me with the saying, "Jesus is Lord." If Jesus was your Lord, you would submit to other Christians and threat them kindly, even when disagreeing with them. You are one of the rudest "Christians" on this forum!

I'll be happy to treat you as a "good Christian" when you act like one. I'll be happy to recognize you are only stating theology about Israel when that is what you are actually doing, rather than condemn the Jewish People as evil "Zionists."

That is what you suggest in your use of the term "Zionist." Here's your opportunity to clarify, rather than justify.
There ya go again more false claims, stating I condemn Jewish People as evil Zionist

One thing that is evil is the Kaballah and Talmud that is at the center of many Jews belief and teaching

Jesus Is The Lord
 

jeffweeder

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Hi. Yep, seems you've settled the question once and for all. Everyone out seems is resurrected at the same time, of you ignore the scriptures that appear to state otherwise. Which begs the question however. Having everyone resurrected at the same time, being at the second coming of Jesus in response to His voice calling them from their graves, what happens to the living wicked at the time? The dead righteous are raised to join Jesus in the air, the living righteous are translated, and the living wicked are killed, presumably to await their resurrection to damnation... what happens to the dead wicked...? Raised and then what?

It is appointed for us all to die once and then judgment.

Heb 9
but now once for all at the consummation of the ages He has appeared and been publicly manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And just as it is appointed and destined for all men to die once and after this [comes certain] judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once and once for all to bear [as a burden] the sins of many, will appear a second time [when he returns to earth], not to deal with sin, but to bring salvation to those who are eagerly and confidently waiting for Him.

The second coming has consummation written all over it, for the living and the dead.
So, when Jesus appears a second time the unsaved living will die in that twinkling of an eye moment to stand before the Lord in final judgment along with the unsaved dead.
The saved living and dead will be glorified in that same twinkling of an eye moment as their names are in the book of life.
God already knows those who are his and who isn't, so this judgment won't take very long at all.

Matt 25
The Judgment
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.


41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons);
 

CadyandZoe

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Why the reluctance? It is a simple question.

It maters because it is important that a Christian and a Pastor keeps his word.
I am not being reluctant. I am being efficient. Since my answer doesn't matter why bother?
 

Randy Kluth

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And God will curse every Jew who hated Jesus and will hate Jesus.
How will God feel about you blessing a Christ rejecting Jew?

I reject Jews and anybody who knowingly reject Jesus. The fact is, Jesus died on the cross and said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do."

So many people, including Jews, reject Jesus without knowing what they're doing. They don't know the one they're rejecting. Our mission is to reach out to them with the Gospel--not curse them.
 

Randy Kluth

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God has no respect of persons, does a Jewish murderer find favor in his eyes over a Hispanic, African, or Chinese, that hasn't 100% "NO"

Example: My name is Daniel I'm Jewish, I lie, steal, cheat, murder, whatever it takes

Jesus is returning in a few years, and I'm destined to be in his favor because I'm Jewish, don't believe me, ask Randy Kluth

That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Yea, ask me if I think you're saved. ;)
 

jeffweeder

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So many people, including Jews, reject Jesus without knowing what they're doing. They don't know the one they're rejecting. Our mission is to reach out to them with the Gospel--not curse them.

Yep
God is patient not wanting any to perish but ALL to come to repentance.
So should we be.
 
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Truth7t7

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I reject Jews and anybody who knowingly reject Jesus. The fact is, Jesus died on the cross and said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do."

So many people, including Jews, reject Jesus without knowing what they're doing. They don't know the one they're rejecting. Our mission is to reach out to them with the Gospel--not curse them.
The unsaved Jews don't need to worry in your belief, they are in on the "National Plan" remember
 

Truth7t7

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I reject Jews and anybody who knowingly reject Jesus.
Do you reject Jews that deny and mock Jesus Christ, that follow the Jewish Occultic Kabbalah and Filthy Rabbinical Talmud?
 
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Davy

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This Zionism debate is defunct on both sides, which both are extremist sides. It is very much like the falling out between Ishamel (Arab peoples) and the people of Isaac (Israelites).

Zionism is a 'political movement', not a religious term.

It is NOT only a political movement for supporting the right of the Jews to establish their ancient homelands in the middle east. It is ALSO being used by orthodox Jews to try and support their beliefs in their religion called Judaism which is derived from the old covenant and law of Moses, and also from traditions of men by the scribes and leaders of Israel that began with their Babylon captivity, traditions which Lord Jesus rebuked.

In 1 Kings 11, when God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms because of what Solomon did, He promised that He would always leave one tribe at Jerusalem for His servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake. This is why there has always been at least a small remnant of the "house of Judah" (Jews) dwelling in the holy land, specifically at Jerusalem/Judea. It is also why they will continue there all the way up to Christ's future return, because of God's promise to them.

So the returning of many of the Jews back to the holy land is not actually because of Zionist doctrine, but by God's Own Hand, per Bible prophecy. How that is accomplished through man's hands is irrelevant. In Jeremiah 24, God reveals His plan to return many of the Jews ("house of Judah") back to the holy land, and not cast them out anymore. He showed His prophet Jeremiah two baskets of figs, one good for Judah, and another basket that had evil figs, to represent another people joined with them (i.e., the "tares", for even the scribes in Israel were foreigners of the Kenite peoples, a people from the land of Canaan).

These two different baskets of figs, one good put for Judah, and the other evil figs put for the "tares", reveals a foreign element that crept in among Judah long, long ago (see Jude 4). It thus means the basket of good figs (Judah) simply represents the Jews of God's people that God Himself 'blinded' away from The Gospel, so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. It does NOT mean these blinded Jews (good figs) are forgotten by God! Apostle Paul explained this in the latter part of the Romans 11 chapter. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (at Christ's future return), that is when their 'blindness' to The Gospel will be removed. Then they will 'see' with spiritual eyes and hear with spiritual ears, and believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ. Until then, like Apostle Paul said, they are enemies for The Gospel's sake.

Thus the two extremist sides of this Zionist argument:

1. The pro-Zionist Jews are stirred mainly by the leaders in orthodox Judaism. Their view is a return to the old covenant doctrine and religion, which must include another Jewish temple built in Jerusalem. A return to the homeland is a first requirement to start this process. By orthodox Jews is meant these still refuse Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah. They are still waiting for The Messiah prophesied in The Old Testament to come. And these believe He will not come until they have returned to their homeland, set up borders, and prepare to build a new temple when he gets here.

2. Those who believe to the other extreme, like the Historicist, instead believes in 70 A.D. God ended the old covenant worship and temple requirement forever by Lord Jesus' Blood shed upon His cross. That is only partially true though, because He also gave Bible prophecy for the end that the deceived orthodox Jews will be allowed to build another temple and startup old covenant worship again, but under a false-Messiah. In other words, God is going to allow them to do that as a stroke of punishment, that is, upon the good figs (Judah) that actually do love Him. When Jesus is revealed to them, they will bow to Him in shame, and wish for the hills and mountains to fall upon them, because of their deception.

So today, the nation state of Israel, those religious Jews there think they are on the road to final Bible prophecy with Messiah soon to come, and establish His Kingdom there. This is why they are mistakenly quoting many Old Testament verses from the Old Testament prophets about God's Kingdom in final, when that is NOT happening today at all! What is happening there today is that God is simply fulfilling His Promise of 1 Kings 11 that He would always leave one tribe at Jerusalem, and also preparing them for the prophecies in the latter days that only WE CHRISTIANS are familiar with which Lord Jesus and His Apostles foretold us about involving the coming Antichrist/pseudo-Christ.
 
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Truth7t7

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I reject your brand of "Christianity," which is hateful and anti-Semitic.
Once Again, your claim that Truth7t7 is Hateful and Antisemetic is 100% "False" in slander and defamation!

My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ walked in Jewish flesh upon this earth, the twelve apostles also walked this earth in Jewish flesh, whose name are written in the foundations of New Jerusalem, that will one day be my eternal home

Your "False Claims" are comparable to liberal democrats shouting "Racist" to any person who disagrees with them

Jesus Christ Is The Lord
 

Keraz

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I doubt if the posters here will ever come to any kind of consensus. Until something dramatic happens, this thread could continue on for another 5000 posts, without anyone getting to the actual truths of what God has said He will do.

Try to really read and carefully think about just this one Prophecy:
Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well.
After I have removed them
, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the Way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people.

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Followers of the Right Way. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Zephaniah 14-18, Hosea 4:3, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, & Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16
 

Phoneman777

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I Agree, And Christian Zionism Is At This False Foundation
Millions of Christians sending their hard earned money (or nowadays "easily obtained government checks") to so called "Jewish causes" like IFCJ and the ADL, thinking they're pleasing God, instead of using their money to advance the cause of the Gospel, of which these zionists organizations have nothing to do. Most rabbis today are not even practicing Judaism, but occult KABBALISM to which Madonna led many of her followers. Kabbalists, like all occultists, turn the Bible upside down and make Lucifer God and turn Jesus into the serpent.
 
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