...

[Peterlag]

This is heaven. No one goes there.

I have heard for many years by many that this is hell and that we are already here.

 

[-Phil]

I have heard for many years by many that this is hell and that we are already here.

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

[Peterlag]

EZEKIEL 34:11-16, 30-31 For these are the words of the Lord God: Now I myself will ask after my sheep and go in search of them. As a shepherd goes in search of his sheep when his flock is dispersed all around him, so I will go in search of my sheep and rescue them, no matter where they were scattered ... I will bring them out from every nation, gather them in from other lands, and lead them home ...I will search for the lost ... They shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and that they are my people Israel, says the Lord God. You are my flock, my people, the flock I feed, and I am your God. This is the very word of the Lord God. ( NEB )

When a Shepard creates 100 sheep, He will go out and look for 1, even when He already has 99 others. When God creates 100% of humanity, even if 99% of them are saved, He will still go and save the remaining 1%, no matter how sinful they are. Because Jesus Christ came to save all sinners of every caliber.

Here's my take...

Romans 8:9b
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[bbyrd009]

HOSEA 6:1 Come, let us return to the Lord; for he has torn us and will heal us, he has struck us and he will bind up our wounds. ( NEB )

The Lord will heal us all. Though we are wounded and harmed now, eventually we will all be healed, we will all be saved from the harm on this planet.

tell that to the Rohingya lol

 

[ScottA]

Daniel 12:2​

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.​

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Everyone goes to heaven, even the Devil himself because he in fact does believe Jesus, Satan had a talk to him and made an offer in fact, so he knows Jesus in fact and Satanist go to heaven because ? They were mislead or worked against God ?

Jesus warned of Hell more times than he did about Heaven.

Now why would the Saviour warn about Hell ? well once in Hell one can not enter Heaven !

Now Jesus went to fetch the OT worthy Jews Souls from Purgatory! They were not in Hell in fact ?

Now all people go to Purgatory if they do not go to Hell ? and in time they may go to Heaven, when I do not know, maybe at the end of times that is were they are coming from as stated, of them coming out from the graves ? Not literal Graves, but Spiritual speaking they must be coming from some abode = Purgatory ? and then they will get their wings ? Some before that time ? Such Souls will be helping the living on a Spiritual level ? Something to ponder on ?

 

[Keturah]

There is demons, when person die, they together with the angels judge the soul, if the demons win, the soul is theirs, not everyone make it to heaven. Check "aerial toll houses".

WHAAAAAT ?

 

[Triumph1300]

Everyone goes to heaven, even the Devil himself because he in fact does believe Jesus, Satan had a talk to him and made an offer in fact, so he knows Jesus in fact and Satanist go to heaven because ? They were mislead or worked against God ?

Jesus warned of Hell more times than he did about Heaven.

Now why would the Saviour warn about Hell ? well once in Hell one can not enter Heaven !

Now Jesus went to fetch the OT worthy Jews Souls from Purgatory! They were not in Hell in fact ?

Now all people go to Purgatory if they do not go to Hell ? and in time they may go to Heaven, when I do not know, maybe at the end of times that is were they are coming from as stated, of them coming out from the graves ? Not literal Graves, but Spiritual speaking they must be coming from some abode = Purgatory ? and then they will get their wings ? Some before that time ? Such Souls will be helping the living on a Spiritual level ? Something to ponder on ?

Reggie, you are wasting your time.
Harold just keeps "copy-paste" and more "copy-paste".......he's having fun. :)

 

[Keturah]

Nobody gets to God unless they repent and present themselves before God with a broken heart & contrite spirit !

 

[ScottA]

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to olam life, others to shame and olam contempt.



The original Hebrew word for "everlasting" is correctly translated as "age lasting". Which reveals there is an age of sin and an age free of sin, an age of death and an age of life.

Daniel 12:2 - Michael's Deliverance and the End Times

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

biblehub.com

עוֹלָ֔ם (‘ō·w·lām)

Noun - masculine singular

Strong's 5769:



Some will enter עוֹלָ֔ם (‘ō·w·lām) contempt and others to עוֹלָ֔ם (‘) life. Some will have life for an age, and others will have death for an age. But eventually, all will have life for an age.



A good English equivalent is “eon” which means a length of time. And like ever length of time, there is a beginning and an end.



God has revealed that the age of sin will not last because everyone will believe with faith alone in Christ, and thus all people will be washed away of their sins. The Lord hates sin, which is why He desires to wash away all sin. The Lord loves everyone, which is why He desires to save everyone.

Rom. 11:36 "Of Him and through Him and to Him are ALL THINGS, to whom be glory forever. Amen"

2 Cor. 5:14 "Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for ALL, and therefore all died."

You have defined ō·w·lām in regard to "everlasting contempt" incorrectly. Defining things the way the world defines them is the problem with what you have presented. That is not the gist of what is by definition, "not of this world." This is quite simple:

The KJV translates Strong's H5769 in the following manner: ever (272x), everlasting (63x), old (22x), perpetual (22x), evermore (15x), never (13x), time (6x), ancient (5x), world (4x), always (3x), alway (2x), long (2x), more (2x), never (with H408) (2x), miscellaneous (6x).

The point is not to understand the matters of God and of the kingdom in terms of the world which is passing away--which none of this is about, but rather in terms of the kingdom which is very simply, eternal. None of this is actually about the world, but is about after the world has passed away and all things are eternal.

In that context then--if you care to actually understand--the scriptures paint a clear picture of one man of sin eternally being thrown into the lake of fire, and One man (Jesus) eternally being One with God in heavenly spender. All of which is forever. But neither man is just one man as such, but as with Christ, is "a body of many members"--so too is the man of sin (a "father" of many).

On the contrary, what you are claiming is that darkness is not done away with, but is converted to be light. Again, however, that is not at all the gist of the overall scriptural message.

 

[BreadOfLife]

My beliefs that are relevant to this discussion are as follows:
-> Everyone goes to Heaven.
-> Specifically, everyone will be saved through Jesus Christ.
-> Salvation is through faith alone in Jesus Christ, not of works.
-> Once saved, always saved. You cannot lose your salvation.
and other basic tenants

The Bible destroys ALL of your positions . . .

1. -> Everyone goes to Heaven.
2. -> Specifically, everyone will be saved through Jesus Christ.
NOT according to the Word of God . . .

The faithful will be saved – while the unfaithful will go off to ETERNAL punishment (Isa. 33:11, 14, Matt. 7:21-23, Matt. 25:14-30, 25:31-46, Mark 9:47–48, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9).

3. -> Salvation is through faith alone in Jesus Christ, not of works.
WRONG.
There is NIO such thing as “fath” without works.

Faith = Belied + Obedience (works, surrender). Works are NOT a byproduct of “Faith” – they are an essential element of faith. Even the demons have “belief” (James 2:19) – but they don’t have faith.

4. -> Once saved, always saved. You cannot lose your salvation.
This is a Scripturally-bankrupt claim. In fact – the ONLY way to reconcile this false teaching is by cherry-picking verses of Scripture.

The CONTEXT of Scripture shows that you can indeed lose your security . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone to be saved. Everyone will become believers in Jesus Christ with faith alone and thus be saved and all people will go to Heaven.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,



Today is January 25th, 2023 (In my time zone, you might have a different time zone if you live somewhere else in the world).



On this day, January 25, 1978, Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy was born in Kryvyi Rih, Ukrainian SSR, Soviet Union (now Ukraine). He is the current President of Ukraine as of the time of writing this.



Now Zelensky has turned 45 years old today. I wish a very happy birthday to Zelensky! For his great service in protecting the country of Ukraine from the evil Russian threat.



Vladmir Putin, chief prince of Rosh, Mesech (Ezekiel 38), President of Russia is evil. He has committed many great sins and abominations in the face of the Lord. Mass murder, mass kidnapping of children, mass torture. The Lord is against Putin!

Genesis 6:11-13 Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence.



To summarize what’s wrong with the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC), which is also evil, as they support the Russian Federation’s evil invasion of Ukraine.

Ezekiel 7:23 Make the chain, for the land is full of bloody crimes and the city is full of violence.



The Russian Orthodox Church promotes the FALSE worship of Mary (a mere flawed human sinner) rather than the TRUE worship of the Lord (the Perfect Almighty One)

Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”



The LORD is our only God! He is one! We only worship Christ Jesus as the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings.

Exodus 34:14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),



Russian Orthodoxy falsely states that water baptism is required to be saved! FALSE!



It is by faith alone in Jesus Christ by which we are saved, not by the works of water baptism. Baptism is merely a metaphor by how believing in Jesus Christ washes away our sins. Baptism is not needed for salvation, it’s only simple belief in Christ Jesus

Genesis 15:6 And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.



The Russian Orthodox Church claims to be “Orthodox” yet their beliefs deviate from what the Early Christian Church taught! Therefore, it is good that Zelensky is exposing the Russian Federation for it’s crimes against humanity.

James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.

You forgot to mention that your mate Zelensky is not a Christian but a Anti-Christ in fact, who set the killing fields on fire in fact wanting the destruction of Ukraine people and homes etc.
The Blood is on his hands in fact. he is a total moron or totally evil dupe that would be happy to create WW3, so be carful of morons like him.

How about what does a Orthodox Jew mean ? well they are not Orthodox truly at all in fact, but as you state that the Russian Orthodox Church claims, well yes they are Orthodox in fact.

Zelensky is attacking a Christian Church ! well that would not surprise me. as he is in bed with the Nazis as well in fact.

 

[Dropship]

​

Everyone Goes to Heaven​

What, even people like Hitler, Stalin, Saddam and Bin Laden?
If that's the case I don't think I wanna go..:)

 

[rockytopva]

3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. - Galatians 1

If everyone goes to heaven there would have been no need for the Father to send his Son Jesus Christ to give himself for our sins. Why would have Christ wanted to go and dwell in such a terrible environment if everyone goes to heaven? But... To get saved requires something on your part...

8 The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10

 

[MatthewG]

I believe the same thing,

The only thing I do not believe is the people who made the choice not to seek after God in faith will not end up in the Heavenly Jerusalem. (they will be outside the city gates according to Revelation 22)


Thus it gets rid of eternal punishment - Age-during punishment makes more sense dealing with the nation of Israel.

This doesn't stop the resurrection of condemnation (perhaps a corrupted spiritual body given by God) that resides outside the kingdom in darkness, which is a loss in itself. Faithless.

This also doesn't stop the resurrection of life (the spiritual body given by God) that perhaps more equipped to be in the Heavenly Jerusalem on high. Faithful.




However, I wonder about the lake of fire - and it is ability to burn out darkness in people as a cleanser.


Also @rockytopva - I see the sending of the Word - Jesus Christ - in God's great love for all the people in the world - to remove the old mosaic law in Jesus fulfilling it - and thus Sin was paid for and taken care on all peoples behalf.





Leaving for the choice, the tree of life (Eternal life found in knowing God, and knowing Christ) living by the spirit; and the tree of knowledge of Good and evil (Living by the flesh) in which people can try to justify oneself by those terms without Christ; who did everything on behalf of God and man.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe the same thing,

The only thing I do not believe is the people who made the choice not to seek after God in faith will not end up in the Heavenly Jerusalem. (they will be outside the city gates according to Revelation 22)

Thus it gets rid of eternal punishment - Age-during punishment makes more sense dealing with the nation of Israel.

This doesn't stop the resurrection of condemnation (perhaps a corrupted spiritual body given by God) that resides outside the kingdom in darkness, which is a loss in itself. Faithless.

This also doesn't stop the resurrection of life (the spiritual body given by God) that perhaps more equipped to be in the Heavenly Jerusalem on high. Faithful.

However, I wonder about the lake of fire - and it is ability to burn out darkness in people as a cleanser.

Also @rockytopva - I see the sending of the Word - Jesus Christ - in God's great love for all the people in the world - to remove the old mosaic law in Jesus fulfilling it - and thus Sin was paid for and taken care on all peoples behalf.


Leaving for the choice, the tree of life (Eternal life found in knowing God, and knowing Christ) living by the spirit; and the tree of knowledge of Good and evil (Living by the flesh) in which people can try to justify oneself by those terms without Christ; who did everything on behalf of God and man.

I believe the congregations of Christianity are seven and are described in Revelation...

1. Ephesus - Messianic
2. Smyrna - Oriental Orthodox
3. Pergamos - Greek Orthodox
4. Thyatira - Catholic
5. Sardis - Protestant
6. Philadelphia - The old camp meeting type denominations
7. Laodicea - Present material church

I have the responsibility of leading a Bible study Wednesday morning and the first thought is that no one likely got religion in the old camp meeting type environment such as I. My family also were at one time "Blue Stocking Presbyterian" and are a very stubborn bunch, having bleached their black socks to protest some religious order of the day.

 

[Dropship]

God's love is stronger than Hitler's hate. God's mercy is stronger than Stalin's wrath. God's peace is stronger than Saddam's violence. God's good is stronger than Bin Laden's evil.

Well what is hell for if you think God is not going to send anybody there?

 

[Patrick1966]

What, even people like Hitler, Stalin, Saddam and Bin Laden?
If that's the case I don't think I wanna go..:)

1 John 4:7
7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Even those guys loved someone, right? Stalin, Hitler, etc., were deceived and misled. They lived terrible lives and, by all accounts, died in their sin. My understanding of scripture says that they will go into the "Lake of Fire". However, it is not forever but for this age. They will be cleansed by fire, purified, and restored to perfection. As Jesus said in Revelation "I make ALL things new".

Jesus is the savior of ALL people. The difference is that the Godly will be spared that experience (we don't need it) as we are already in God.

I encourage you to download a version of Young's Literal Translation as it correctly interprets the Greek words used in the original scriptures, unlike most of the other Bibles.

 

[Patrick1966]

Well what is hell for if you think God is not going to send anybody there?

God definitely sends the ungodly into the crucible, but it is a restorative process and NOT one of "eternal" torture.

Think about this. Do you believe that our all-powerful, all-loving, God would create people in his image knowing that many would fall short and that he would then sentence them to an "eternity" of torture? Would you do that to your child or to your disobedient dog? Of course not. Neither does God.

 

[Dropship]

God definitely sends the ungodly into the crucible, but it is a restorative process and NOT one of "eternal" torture..

Haha I'm sure satan wants people to think they'll be let out of hell after serving their time as if it was Shawshank, so don't let him sucker you into believing it..:)
"The rich man...In Hades, where he was in torment....Abraham said "between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us." (Luke 16:23-26)
Atheists and nonchristians send themselves to hell if they don't want to be with God and Jesus in heaven, they had their chance..