...

[Behold]

Oh gee. More taking Scripture out of context and spreading a false Gospel here just as you are attempting to do at CF. Tsk tsk.

Here is what you need to believe and share.

JESUS is Salvation.

 

[Michie]

The ads here are driving me crazy!

 

[Patrick1966]

Romans 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

All will be justified by faith alone in Jesus, everyone will be given righteousness through the Holy Spirit. There is a happy ending for all people, everybody will go to Heaven. All made clean and justified through Christ.

Although some may first require a little dip into the lava bowl. :)

 

[Patrick1966]

@Harold Do you agree that the current Heaven and the future new Earth are two distinct places?

Based on the scriptures (and my own innate understanding of God) that ALL will be on the new Earth in God's kingdom, but I don't know if everybody goes to Heaven.

At the end of the ages, Jesus resurrects all physical bodies and then gives them to God to be taken to the new Earth, right?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hi everyone. I hope this is the right place to post about it! I imagine talking about this belief can be controversial, so I have put it under the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum. Please let me know if this is the appropriate place to discuss this or if this is allowed to be discussed. Thank you kindly.

Anyways, let me introduce myself, since this is my first post here. Hi, my name is Harold Samson. On other forums I got by the names Harold Samsong, HSong, or just simply Song.

My beliefs that are relevant to this discussion are as follows:
-> Everyone goes to Heaven.
-> Specifically, everyone will be saved through Jesus Christ.
-> Salvation is through faith alone in Jesus Christ, not of works.
-> Once saved, always saved. You cannot lose your salvation.
and other basic tenants

If you need any more clarification, I will be more than happy to provide.

Now, here's the part where I provide Bible verses to support this position.

1 Timothy 4:10 Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe.​

Some believers may wonder what the point of believing is if God will save everyone. But, the way I see it, believing in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, meaning that everyone will eventually believe that God is Jesus Christ. So for us believers, we believe in God in advance, having learned the truth out of grace, and doing good because of our love for Christ!

1 John 3:5: "You know that He [Jesus] appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin."

There is no sin in God, God’s existence cannot allow sin. Therefore, God will go to each person in the world and use Jesus Christ as the cover for those sins, allowing everyone to be saved through Him.

Genesis 12:3 In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Everyone will receive God’s blessing of salvation! All families of the Earth means everyone, as everyone comes from the original family, are original descendants, of Adam and Eve.

Psalm NIV 118:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever.

God’s love for all the people on Earth will never end, all will be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:55: "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?"

God will not let death win! In the coming age, there will be no more death, no more suffering, for anyone. Because God will save everyone!

I will leave it at those 5 for now, though I have plenty more than I can reference.

If you agree or disagree with these beliefs, then feel free to let me know why. I'm always curious and interested to know your reasons. I encourage an open discussion on all fronts.

Thank you all for reading this and I hope everyone has a wonderful day! :)

YOu misunderstand those verses and the words of Jesus HImself.

Jesus HImself declared the majority of mankind goes to perdition which is an everlasting habitation for those who rejected Jesus in this lifetime.

As Hebrews says:

"It is appointed unto men once to die, then after, the judgment". Judgment thewre means sentencing.

Just to give you a little clue as to how long?

Rev. 14:
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[ButterflyJones]

There's long been an atheist meme that often pops if one searches for Jesus images.
"LOVE ME OR I'LL BURN YOU IN HELL FOR ETERNITY!"

Personally, though I do refer to scripture in discussions surrounding that topic, I accept what we are told in Ecclesiastes 12.

It only makes sense. Whereas the church influence when drafting the New Testament I believe had a vested interest in inventing a place of eternal suffering for unbelievers in it.
Ascribing Jesus name to such would only serve to give the invention credibility.

While burning people alive reiterated the message of what would await in the afterlife if one was not in compliance with church doctrine.

 

[Patrick1966]

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Bad translation.

Revelation 14:11
Young's Literal Translation
11 and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.

 

[Patrick1966]

and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in

I believe "tormented" in this context is a refining process along with refining instruments such as fire and brimstone.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Bad translation.

Revelation 14:11
Young's Literal Translation
11 and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.

Well that is the English. Your problem is you look at an English translation and forget that it is a translation from a different language. Aion used in the culture of the day was the Greek term used for eternity! Especially when used back to back. YOu need to go past the basic English and learn how words were used originally. that is why the translators of nearly all English bibles used eternity or forever here.

 

[stredaleve]

You have portrayed God as a liar.

 

[strepho]

I respect other people's beliefs and faith. The Koran also says many people will be saved. Luke 13:24. Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able . 13:28. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when Ye shall see abraham, isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and you your selves thrust out. Those who worshipped antichrist will be in sheol, called hell. It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked. Narrow gate leads to kingdom of God. Wide gate leads to hell. First Corinthians chapter 2:12 now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirt which is of God; 2:14. But the natural man received not the things of the spirit of God ; for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spirtualty Discerned. Bottom line is. You need holy spirit to guide you through narrow gate to heaven. Many people have spirit of slumber. Why do think so many people go through wide gate. Majority don't have the holy spirit. Psalm 49:19. He shall go to the generations of his fathers ; They shall never see the light. Those with spirit of stupor go to sheol. They will have to wait until millennium is over to have access to Jesus. Read Roman's chapter 8, God's Election have holy spirit. The position for elect can't be volunteered for. The election we're judged, and chosen by God in the first earth age. The election are predestined, chosen before foundation of the world. The election have holy spirit. I documented this.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Hi everyone. I hope this is the right place to post about it! I imagine talking about this belief can be controversial, so I have put it under the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum. Please let me know if this is the appropriate place to discuss this or if this is allowed to be discussed. Thank you kindly.

Anyways, let me introduce myself, since this is my first post here. Hi, my name is Harold Samson. On other forums I got by the names Harold Samsong, HSong, or just simply Song.

My beliefs that are relevant to this discussion are as follows:
-> Everyone goes to Heaven.
-> Specifically, everyone will be saved through Jesus Christ.
-> Salvation is through faith alone in Jesus Christ, not of works.
-> Once saved, always saved. You cannot lose your salvation.
and other basic tenants

If you need any more clarification, I will be more than happy to provide.

Now, here's the part where I provide Bible verses to support this position.

1 Timothy 4:10 Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe.​

Some believers may wonder what the point of believing is if God will save everyone. But, the way I see it, believing in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, meaning that everyone will eventually believe that God is Jesus Christ. So for us believers, we believe in God in advance, having learned the truth out of grace, and doing good because of our love for Christ!

1 John 3:5: "You know that He [Jesus] appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin."

There is no sin in God, God’s existence cannot allow sin. Therefore, God will go to each person in the world and use Jesus Christ as the cover for those sins, allowing everyone to be saved through Him.

Genesis 12:3 In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Everyone will receive God’s blessing of salvation! All families of the Earth means everyone, as everyone comes from the original family, are original descendants, of Adam and Eve.

Psalm NIV 118:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever.

God’s love for all the people on Earth will never end, all will be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:55: "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?"

God will not let death win! In the coming age, there will be no more death, no more suffering, for anyone. Because God will save everyone!

I will leave it at those 5 for now, though I have plenty more than I can reference.

If you agree or disagree with these beliefs, then feel free to let me know why. I'm always curious and interested to know your reasons. I encourage an open discussion on all fronts.

Thank you all for reading this and I hope everyone has a wonderful day! :)

Unbelievers:
1. Still reject Jesus (Rom 1:18-23; 32);
2. Disobey the gospel (1 Pet 4:17; 2 Thess 1:8; Rom 10:16);
3. Fail to repent
4. Lack faith
5. Lack fear of God ( which is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom) (Acts 6:7; Rom 1:5; 16:26; Prov. 9:10).
6. They love sin and themselves rather than God and therefore are disqualified from entering into an eternal relationship (John 3:20; 2 Tim 3:2-8).

Universalists see an open-ended opportunity for unsaved sinners to repent, long after judgment day.
But the Bible states that Judgment Day is a time that is already fixed for their destruction, so after that, a change of heart/ repentance is impossible (they will no longer exist).

But as 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 makes clear, “The last enemy to be destroyed is DEATH” (v26), leaving no more enemies in existence. Death is destroyed along with Hades and all unbelievers in it, Satan and his demons. They are thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the event spoken of in 2 Peter 3:10, when also the First Heavens and First Earth are destroyed.

Romans 1 says that God, throughout our lives, gives us ample opportunities to repent until these callous and unwilling souls have reached the point of no return, at which time He let's them go and they continue along there paths until they go to their death!
Revelation 16 clearly expresses God's judgment / His wrath against a world of unbelievers.
"And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory." vs. 9

In Matthew 25, Jesus tells of a time when people will be separated into two groups, believers and unbelievers. Believers have received salvation/eternal life. Unbelievers do not have life, Jesus makes that clear over and over again.

Jesus doesn’t only reference Hell, he describes it in great detail.
He says it is a place of:
* age-lasting torment (Luke 16:23);
*unquenchable fire (Mark 9:43);
*where the worm does not die (Mark 9:48);
*where people will gnash their teeth in anguish and regret (Matt. 13:42);
*from which there is no return, even to warn loved ones (Luke 16:19–31).

He calls Hell a place of “outer darkness” (Matt. 25:30); comparing it to “Gehenna” (Matt. 10:28), which was a trash dump outside the walls of Jerusalem where rubbish was burned and maggots abounded.
Jesus describes Hell more than Heaven.

Shall we presume that Jesus was creating an imaginary event/place that does not exist just to scare us into believing. That would be a lie, wouldn't it?

 

[Cassandra]

I'm sorry, just glancing over your posts, and I have to ask:
Why is the sin thing allowed to play out on earth?
What does John 3:16 mean? It says "whoseover believeth" shall not perish (and so means whosoever does not believe is going to perish)
Did Satan sin and will he be punished?
In the OT much time is taken to explain the Temple service, for the remission of sins looking forward to Christ' sacrifice. Why go through all of that, if it doesn't matter?
Why do you have departed folk staying alive as immortal souls when the Bible says God alone has immortality I Tim 6:16"Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Why did Christ have to die, if everyone is saved anyway?

What is the purpose of loving the Lord and doing His will now, if you can be with Him anyway later on?

And my last question why did you put up all of that stuff that your needed to do in order to get an Aiortic NT?

 

[bluedragon]

If Hitler, Stalin, Saddam and other nasty people will be in heaven I don't think i'd like to go..:)​

The song is

"If Heaven ain't a lot like Dixie, I don't want to go ..." Kidding of course .

I had a serious discussion with my daughter. In an emergency room at the hospital. I was late to her game and ended up being sent to the hospital. She got hit in the face by a line drive in Center Field. "Dad? Can I ask a question? I want the truth" "OK, fire away." "When you lose a ball in the lights, then suddenly see the ball and realize you can't stop it. What goes through your mind?" "Truth .....Awwwwwwww S###!" "That's exactly what I thought." "Michelle" "What?" "Say 52 hail Mary's. Just kidding ......"

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If Hitler, Stalin, Saddam and other nasty people will be in heaven I don't think i'd like to go..:)​

so what makes you more worthy then any of them?

 

[Cassandra]

Hi Cassandra my friend!

Even though sin is playing out on Earth, it will not play out forever. Since sin = death = suffering. Eventually all suffering must come to an end because all sin will also come to an end, so it's impossible for people to be tortured forever, because sin tortures us.

Psalm 103:8-14 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in mercy. He will not always strive with us, nor will He keep His anger forever.

Christ died to save everyone. Everyone will become believers in Christ to be saved. That's how they're saved. He's the only way to Heaven after all, the only way someone can be saved is by faith alone in Him. Without Christ, nobody would be saved. Without God, salvation is completely impossible.

John 13:3 The Father "has given all things into Jesus' hands."

It is because Christ died that salvation is possible for everyone, and because God is Almighty, He guarantees that everyone will gain this salvation by faith in Him because it's His desire to completely remove every last trace of sin in the world
Habakkuk 2:3 The revelation awaits an appointed time; it speaks of the end and will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it; it will certainly come and will not delay.

Yes, Jesus died so we might be saved. That does not mean everyone will be saved. You have to accept Him.
He will remove every trace of sin from the world in the Earth made new.

I don't believe in an eternal torment. Man is not immortal--only God is. Immortality is a gift,as we see in John 3:16.. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. The second death, not the second dying

I don't think the Habakkuk verse has anything to do with this.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good point. Sin = sin. As long as someone has even a single sin, then they are evil like other evil people. We are all evil. I have done wrongdoings, we all have. The goal of God is to remove all of this sin, therefore, He will convince all people to believe in Christ, who's blood washes away all transgressions.

Psalm 22:27, 29 "ALL the ends of the world shall remember and turn to the Lord, and ALL the families of the nations shall worship before You. ALL those who go down to the dust (death) shall bow before You."

Amen. The standard is God. Not other people.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Just a thought. Aren't there multiple heavens?

 

[Behold]

`

The false doctrines of Eternal Conscious Torment

Jesus was tormented and killed to keep people out of the place that is created for the Devil and His Angels.

God has done all He can do.
He died on the Cross to keep them from going to Hell today....but that didn't keep thousands from going there by free will choice.

 

[Behold]

```He is gracious with salvation, as it is a gift He freely gives to all people. All will believe in Christ to accept it. His

Christ rejectors, never born again, who went to hell today, wont be going to heaven later to be with Christ whom they died today rejecting.

He wont be saving them in Hell, as God has already let them go, forever.

Listen.

Going to Heaven, is the eternal life experience of a born again Christian.

Going to Hell, is the eternal life experience, of a Christ Rejector, having died.