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[M3n0r4h]

If you were God, would you allow everyone into heaven?

What about the devil and every demon that has ever caused indescribable misery and torment upon mankind?

How are their sins any different than ours? They were Angels before they fell into darkness and disgrace.

No mere man has ever been as righteous as an Angel.

well said.

 

[M3n0r4h]

Hi everyone. I hope this is the right place to post about it! I imagine talking about this belief can be controversial, so I have put it under the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum. Please let me know if this is the appropriate place to discuss this or if this is allowed to be discussed. Thank you kindly.

Anyways, let me introduce myself, since this is my first post here. Hi, my name is Harold Samson. On other forums I got by the names Harold Samsong, HSong, or just simply Song.

My beliefs that are relevant to this discussion are as follows:
-> Everyone goes to Heaven.
-> Specifically, everyone will be saved through Jesus Christ.
-> Salvation is through faith alone in Jesus Christ, not of works.
-> Once saved, always saved. You cannot lose your salvation.
and other basic tenants

If you need any more clarification, I will be more than happy to provide.

Now, here's the part where I provide Bible verses to support this position.

1 Timothy 4:10 Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe.​

Some believers may wonder what the point of believing is if God will save everyone. But, the way I see it, believing in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, meaning that everyone will eventually believe that God is Jesus Christ. So for us believers, we believe in God in advance, having learned the truth out of grace, and doing good because of our love for Christ!

1 John 3:5: "You know that He [Jesus] appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin."

There is no sin in God, God’s existence cannot allow sin. Therefore, God will go to each person in the world and use Jesus Christ as the cover for those sins, allowing everyone to be saved through Him.

Genesis 12:3 In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Everyone will receive God’s blessing of salvation! All families of the Earth means everyone, as everyone comes from the original family, are original descendants, of Adam and Eve.

Psalm NIV 118:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever.

God’s love for all the people on Earth will never end, all will be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:55: "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?"

God will not let death win! In the coming age, there will be no more death, no more suffering, for anyone. Because God will save everyone!

I will leave it at those 5 for now, though I have plenty more than I can reference.

If you agree or disagree with these beliefs, then feel free to let me know why. I'm always curious and interested to know your reasons. I encourage an open discussion on all fronts.

Thank you all for reading this and I hope everyone has a wonderful day! :)

when Jesus returns, He will give a shout and only His sheep will hear His voice and rise from their graves.

those who are not His sheep will not ever be resurrected as they cannot hear His voice and respond to His call.

that means that, of those who are resurrected, those who have done good shall be resurrected to life and those who have done evil shall be resurrected to damnation.

John 5:29

 

[Grailhunter]

Hi everyone. I hope this is the right place to post about it! I imagine talking about this belief can be controversial, so I have put it under the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum. Please let me know if this is the appropriate place to discuss this or if this is allowed to be discussed. Thank you kindly.

Anyways, let me introduce myself, since this is my first post here. Hi, my name is Harold Samson. On other forums I got by the names Harold Samsong, HSong, or just simply Song.

My beliefs that are relevant to this discussion are as follows:
-> Everyone goes to Heaven.
-> Specifically, everyone will be saved through Jesus Christ.
-> Salvation is through faith alone in Jesus Christ, not of works.
-> Once saved, always saved. You cannot lose your salvation.
and other basic tenants

If you need any more clarification, I will be more than happy to provide.

Now, here's the part where I provide Bible verses to support this position.

1 Timothy 4:10 Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe.​

Some believers may wonder what the point of believing is if God will save everyone. But, the way I see it, believing in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, meaning that everyone will eventually believe that God is Jesus Christ. So for us believers, we believe in God in advance, having learned the truth out of grace, and doing good because of our love for Christ!

1 John 3:5: "You know that He [Jesus] appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin."

There is no sin in God, God’s existence cannot allow sin. Therefore, God will go to each person in the world and use Jesus Christ as the cover for those sins, allowing everyone to be saved through Him.

Genesis 12:3 In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Everyone will receive God’s blessing of salvation! All families of the Earth means everyone, as everyone comes from the original family, are original descendants, of Adam and Eve.

Psalm NIV 118:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever.

God’s love for all the people on Earth will never end, all will be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:55: "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?"

God will not let death win! In the coming age, there will be no more death, no more suffering, for anyone. Because God will save everyone!

I will leave it at those 5 for now, though I have plenty more than I can reference.

If you agree or disagree with these beliefs, then feel free to let me know why. I'm always curious and interested to know your reasons. I encourage an open discussion on all fronts.

Thank you all for reading this and I hope everyone has a wonderful day! :)

Close....All dogs go to heaven

 

[M3n0r4h]

Those who have done good? Who has done good? Certainly, I have not done good, because I am a sinner.

Romans 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh;

Therefore, let the person who is without evil be the first to say that those who are evil will be resurrected to damnation. Because, either we're all saved and go to Heaven, or none of are saved and we are damned. And since there are few of us who are saved right now, then therefore, eventually all will be saved

Certainly, there is punishment for people who commit sins. But does this punishment last forever? No. Because all people will eventually believe in Christ to be made clean by His blood, which washes away all our evil. Only with the Holy Spirit inside of us are we truly capable of producing good works after salvation.

another brainwashed professed Christian who's accepted and embraced the myth that all Christians are sinners.

whatever floats your ark.

you should read the portions of the Bible, that your pastor never read you from the pulpit, that speak of God's true opinion of "sinners" sometime.

God HATES sinners.

you wanna be a sinner, be a sinner, but don't try and bring us all down with you - and don't lump us all together in your chosen acceptance of sin.

 

[Grailhunter]

Anyways, let me introduce myself, since this is my first post here. Hi, my name is Harold Samson. On other forums I got by the names Harold Samsong, HSong, or just simply Song.

My beliefs that are relevant to this discussion are as follows:
-> Everyone goes to Heaven.
-> Specifically, everyone will be saved through Jesus Christ.
-> Salvation is through faith alone in Jesus Christ, not of works.
-> Once saved, always saved. You cannot lose your salvation.
and other basic tenants

You are going to be sadly horrified! There is nothing in the scriptures to support temporary Hell or Heaven. Eternity…forever….and other words are used to describe eternal Hell fire. And those biblical warnings are to Christians....so there is a concern regarding Christians going to Hell. Do not make this OSAS or Universalism a religious belief because it can cause you to conduct yourself in a manner that will send you to Hell. And if you convince other people of this you could be held responsible for the lose of their souls.

The correct way of looking at it is…..is that you are sinner and I am a sinner and God loves us very much. So much that He sent His real Son that He loved very much to set us straight and save us from Satan and Hell. God cannot tolerate sin, but He loves sinners. It is kind of like you or I if we were in love with a crazy woman. What do ya do? You deal with it because you have no other choice. LOL Now this plan came from God and so it probably has a good success rate….it is God’s plan so how could it be any other way.

We can say we are sinners….we can say we are saints…..but still saints sin. If we could choose not to sin we would be perfect….not possible! So the whole plan is about loving sinners and saving them. You and I are sinners that God loves.

So what makes the difference? The answer; Faith and intent. The intent to be good and do good. We are awarded salvation by our faith in Yeshua. We retain our salvation by doing our best to be good and do good.

What do you need to be good and do good? You need love. Love others…. but also love yourself. Respect others and respect yourself. If you love and respect yourself you will not live in a cesspool. If you love and respect yourself you will not take the cesspool inside your body.

Now those that work with the devil will always make the point that "works do not save you" Satan twists the truth to lead people to Hell. The serpent told Eve she would not die if she ate of the fruit....he told the truth....sort of. And it is the truth that "works" or Good Deeds will not save you, only faith in Christ will save you. But if you read the parable about the Sheep and the Goats you will learn that not helpping others can land you into Hell fire.

If you love and respect yourself and love and respect others your sins will be minimal. It is why God defined sin. To keep us from making the same mistakes that Man has made from the beginning of creation. Sin hurts others and sin hurts us. So if you have love and have compassion in your heart, your sins will be minimal enough for you to ask for forgiveness and receive that promise of redemption.

2nd Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

10 Bible verses about Judgment According To Works

And Christ’s judgment will be just and merciful….He does not want you to go to Hell. He…the Son of God…a God went through the passion of the Cross in hopes that you do not go to Hell. You effectively send yourself to Hell. But evil will not abide in Heaven. At that heavenly banquet you will not have to worry that the guy next to you will pour ketchup on your arm to eat you. He will not be there! LOL

So if you hate and do evil you have to repent or you will be in the fires of Hell for eternity. So if you cannot stop hating and doing evil, what can you do?….Pray about it is the first thing…but you might consider that if you cannot control yourself, you might have a mental condition and should seek professional help. God put those professionals in place to help you.....so get help. Just the same....it is my opinion that Yeshua will take mental disorders into consideration on Judgment Day. So those with mental disorders should hold fast to their faith in Christ. But still they have to do their best.

For the “average Christian sinner” do your best to be good and do good and be confident in the Grace of Christ. Really what are the sins of the average Christian? They are forgivable….but that does not mean you can commit the same sins over and over again….the name it and claim it groups are hilarious....you cannot make sin a lifestyle and expect to go to Heaven. Christ offers Grace but Christ is not stupid and you cannot con Him…Yeshua expects us to sin….and He expects us to learn from our mistakes ….not embrace them.

Love God and love one another.

Accept Christ as you Savior and have faith in Him.

Do your best to be good and do good for others.

The Johnny Appleseed of Truth

 

[face2face]

The Lord Jesus warns more about hell than speaks about heaven, in Scripture.

Everyone goes to the grace and Heaven isn't promised to anyone.
So yeah!

 

[M3n0r4h]

God cannot tolerate sin, but He loves sinners.

you sure about that?

here God's Word lumps sinners among the ungodly and the scornful:

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful."
Psalm 1:1

here God's Word completely separates sinners from the righteous and again associates them with the ungodly:

"... the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous."
Psalm 1:5

another distinct separation of sinners from God's people and associating them with men who favor blood shed:

"Gather not my soul with sinners, nor my life with bloody men:..."
Psalm 26:9

possibly the most significant verse to make the point:

"All the sinners of My people shall die by the sword, ..."
Amos 9:10

I thought God just loved the sinners of His people????

here's what God has planned for all the "sinners" of the world:

"Behold the Day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."

sinners are those who live in habitual sin against God, those who oppose everything He is and all that He stands for:

"... consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, ..."
Hebrews 12:3

a sinner is a worker of iniquity, somebody who lives in daily sin and passes that sentiment on to those around them. God has NO love for a sinner:

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil (sinners)."
1 John 3:8

 

[Grailhunter]

you sure about that?

Yep I am sure about that.
Yahweh gave His Son for sinners.
Yeshua offered Himself up for sinners as a sacrifice to save them.

Biblical understanding can be difficult for some.

Yahweh....Yeshua....the Apostles....all the disciples were out to save sinners. The whole New Testament is not only about saving sinners from Hell, it is about opening the Gates of Heaven for those that place their faith in Christ.

They were not much for sitting in the corner gossiping about people. They were out to help people, and they were out to save sinners.

Grace is afforded to sinners.

If a church wanted to get rid of all the sinners in its congregation.....it would be an empty church. Even the preacher would be locked out. We are all sinners and God loves us.

Yahweh cannot stand even one sin.....yet He loves sinners....we are made perfect before Yahweh with a cloak of Grace. A Grace that is afforded to us by Christ. If not we could not have a relationship with Him. By Grace we are in the family of God.....sons and daughters of God.

If you do not know or understand this you have missed a good part of the meaning of the New Covenant with God.

As far as your Old Testament scriptures.....I am not a Jew and I am in a New Covenent with God, you should be too.

Place your faith in Christ.

Love God and each other and do good for one another.

Be good and do good the best you can.

Johnny Appleseed of Truth

 

[M3n0r4h]

Yep I am sure about that.
Yahweh gave His Son for sinners.
Yeshua offered Himself up for sinners as a sacrifice to save them.

Biblical understanding can be difficult for some.

Yahweh....Yeshua....the Apostles....all the disciples were out to save sinners. The whole New Testament is not only about saving sinners from Hell, it is about opening the Gates of Heaven for those that place their faith in Christ.

They were not much for sitting in the corner gossiping about people. They were out to help people, and they were out to save sinners.

Grace is afforded to sinners.

If a church wanted to get rid of all the sinners in its congregation.....it would be an empty church. Even the preacher would be locked out. We are all sinners and God loves us.

Yahweh cannot stand even one sin.....yet He loves sinners....we are made perfect before Yahweh with a cloak of Grace. A Grace that is afforded to us by Christ. If not we could not have a relationship with Him. By Grace we are in the family of God.....sons and daughters of God.

If you do not know or understand this you have missed a good part of the meaning of the New Covenant with God.

As far as your Old Testament scriptures.....I am not a Jew and I am in a New Covenent with God, you should be too.

Place your faith in Christ.

Love God and each other and do good for one another.

Be good and do good the best you can.

Johnny Appleseed of Truth

the point you are purposely ignoring is that we are sinners BEFORE we come to Christ.

not after.

yes, we still sin, we stumble in our efforts to follow Christ's Way of obedience to the 10 Commandments, but we do not REMAIN sinners.

there's just no getting around that.

the term Christian means follower of Christ.

was Christ a SINNER?

 

[Grailhunter]

the point you are purposely ignoring is that we are sinners BEFORE we come to Christ.

not after.

yes, we still sin, we stumble in our efforts to follow Christ's Way of obedience to the 10 Commandments, but we do not REMAIN sinners.

there's just no getting around that.

the term Christian means follower of Christ.

was Christ a SINNER?

First of Christians are not under the Law....we obey Christ, not the Mosaic Laws.

Christian morality is taught in the New Testament and is far superior to the Mosaic Law. The Ten Commandments....what you think are the Ten Commandments, are part of the 613 Laws that make up the Mosaic Law....which allowed for Polygamy...concubinage....a father selling his daughters as sex slaves.....women were property. Christians are not judged by or under the Law....we do not observe the Saturday Jewish Sabbath and we definitely have engraved images.

And we are definitely sinners....what was the scripture? If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1st John 1:8 Christians sin less but we are definitely sinners.....no one is perfect. Saved by the Grace of Christ not by our own holiness.

 

[M3n0r4h]

First of Christians are not under the Law....we obey Christ, not the Mosaic Laws.

Christian morality is taught in the New Testament and is far superior to the Mosaic Law. The Ten Commandments....what you think are the Ten Commandments, are part of the 613 Laws that make up the Mosaic Law....which allowed for Polygamy...concubinage....a father selling his daughters as sex slaves.....women were property. Christians are not judged by or under the Law....we do not observe the Saturday Jewish Sabbath and we definitely have engraved images.

And we are definitely sinners....what was the scripture? If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1st John 1:8 Christians sin less but we are definitely sinners.....no one is perfect. Saved by the Grace of Christ not by our own holiness.

nobody has claimed we have no sin.

that is what is called a Straw Man argument.

and it's about all you've got to combat my position.

made-up arguments that have no relationship to what is being discussed at all.

 

[Grailhunter]

nobody has claimed we have no sin.

that is what is called a Straw Man argument.

I will copy and paste it for ya....maybe you forgot.

yes, we still sin, we stumble in our efforts to follow Christ's Way of obedience to the 10 Commandments, but we do not REMAIN sinners.

Wheather we are forgiven or not we are still sinners.

Yep that is it, you did not have much.

 

[M3n0r4h]

I will copy and paste it for ya....maybe you forgot.

yes, we still sin, we stumble in our efforts to follow Christ's Way of obedience to the 10 Commandments, but we do not REMAIN sinners.

Wheather we are forgiven or not we are still sinners.

Yep that is it, you did not have much.

thank you, I did forget.

look forward to seeing that quote from me.

God bless your passion.

 

[Behold]

The simple truth. Everyone will believe in Christ and thus everyone will be saved.

Thousands of people went to hell today.

They BELIEVE in JESUS right now....every single one, now believes.
They believe in Hell, also.

They are still there.

No 2nd Chance in Hell, because you can't be born again in Hell.

 

[M3n0r4h]

all hearts will be made permanently righteous by faith alone in Christ, the receival of the Holy Ghost.

I would say a majority of Christians (church-going at least) believe this, as that is what they've been taught, but it doesn't seem to align with the Bible.

this would mean that Christians become incorruptible prior to their physical death and resurrection.

but the Bible teaches that we remain corruptible until the time of our being changed and raised after our physical death.

that coincides with the teaching of the definition of sin in 1 John 3:4 being the breaking of the Commandments.

thus, Jesus and the NT teach that we are to obey the Commandments all our lives and then when we die and are raised up again we are changed into a form that is THEN permanently righteous and incorruptible.

how do you explain this?

 

[Grailhunter]

I would say a majority of Christians (church-going at least) believe this, as that is what they've been taught, but it doesn't seem to align with the Bible.

this would mean that Christians become incorruptible prior to their physical death and resurrection.

but the Bible teaches that we remain corruptible until the time of our being changed and raised after our physical death.

that coincides with the teaching of the definition of sin in 1 John 3:4 being the breaking of the Commandments.

thus, Jesus and the NT teach that we are to obey the Commandments all our lives and then when we die and are raised up again we are changed into a form that is THEN permanently righteous and incorruptible.

how do you explain this?

Obey Christ's Commandments not the Ten Commandments or any other part of the Mosaic Law.
And you are pretty much wrong about everything else....

 

[M3n0r4h]

Obey Christ's Commandments not the Ten Commandments or any other part of the Mosaic Law.

Christ's Commandments are the 10 Commandments that He teaches, and obeys as an example, throughout the gospels ...

and that HE created per John 1:1.

And you are pretty much wrong about everything else....

yet you wouldn't want to specify as you have no legitimate rebuttal.

 

[Grailhunter]

Christ's Commandments are the 10 Commandments that He teaches, and obeys as an example, throughout the gospels ...

Nope and you probably do not know what the Ten Commandments are because they are not in Chapter 20 of Exodus.

yet you wouldn't want to specify as you have no legitimate rebuttal.

I am saying I disagree with pretty much everything you are saying.
I can put nope after every sentence.

 

[M3n0r4h]

```Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will remove from your body the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. (NRSV) ```

Are we not all born with a heart of stone? Thus, we must all believe in Christ to gain the Holy Spirit. Therefore, all people will have their hearts of stone replaced a heart of flesh.

```Psalm 33:15 He made their hearts, so he understands everything they do. (NLT) ```

This same heart לֵ֤ב (lêḇ) Strong's 3820: also means “the will”. God knows everything we do, it was predestined. Even our will to do, was made by Him. Therefore, no matter how hard people try to resist God, they will eventually be reconciled with Him, it is guaranteed.

are you one who believes every single person will be saved?

if so, that's not what the Bible teaches.

 

[M3n0r4h]

Hi M3n0r4h my friend. Yes, that is me. Though, there are many others like me.

I believe every single person will be saved because every single person will become a believer in Christ. That's Christian Universalism.

There's many verses in the Bible that teach this, but this one's a good summary:

ISAIAH 45:22-24 "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. They will say of me, `In the Lord alone are righteousness and strength.'"

God has literally promised to have every single person saved. God bless :)

do you not believe in the devil and his fallen angel demons?

do you not believe there are those upon the earth who serve them directly and do things on a daily basis that cannot ever be forgiven by God?

all of those people know very well that God exists, they fully believe in Him and hate Him with a passion you cannot imagine.

it is ... very uninformed, possibly even un-sane, to be of the opinion that all of those people will be welcomed by the Holy of Holies into the Holiest realm in existence, among all of the Holiest beings that have ever existed.

sorry, I can't abide that possibility in the least.

I actually find it insulting to God's Holy Word.