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[The Learner]

Today Nov 27 2023, before 3:59 PM my mother told me that she wants to make a bet with me in regards to whether an aspect of my sister’s life will be successful or unsuccessful.



My infernalist mother went to the position of saying that it will be not successful with “100%” certainty and insisted that I participate in her bet, but I refused. Nevertheless, she said that I apparently now owe her 50 dollars? What??? Is my infernalist mother so confident in her belief that she’s already trying to collect her winnings before the game has even been decided?



So, I replied saying that I do not agree to participate in the bet. What’s my position here? I don’t know. How can we even make accurate bets in regards to other people’s lives, when their very futures are at stake here? But my mother had already in her mind put me on the opposing side forcefully. I’m not surprised. We disagree on many things, one such is Infernalism vs Universalism. In regards to “bets”, I am very cautious. I prefer only joining a side that I am very confident in, which is why I consider myself a Christian Universalist.

```Jeremiah 29:11 NRSVue For surely I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for your welfare and not for harm, to give you a future with hope. ```



For a lot of Hopeful Universalists, I imagine they must be under three-way pressure from the Infernalists, those who believe God tortures people forever, the Annihlationists, those who believe God permanently destroys people forever and the Universalists, the personal camp I’m in, who believes that God will save everyone.



I wonder which position is the “riskiest”? I think there’s arguments on both sides. For the Christian Universalists, who could say their position is “risky” because it requires literally every person in existence to believe in Christ to be saved. If even a single person is tortured forever, Christian Infernalism is true. If even a single person is permanently destroyed forever, Christian Annilhationism is true.



The interesting thing is that Christian Annilhationism could already be true. Yeah, like, what if there was a single person who was already permanently destroyed forever? Then that would make Christian Universalism impossible. But for Christian Annilhationism, would God be wasteful? If God was going to permanently destroy one of His creations, then why even create them in the first place? Would not God have known already in advance that He would do this? But for Christian Infernalism, God would somehow have to maintain the existence of sin forever (the sinners being tormented) while still remaining good.



Regardless of the “risk level” I still stay in the Christian Universalism camp. If it means having a happy ending for all of humanity, then I think it’s worth whatever perceived risk there is. But for you Hopeful Universalists, don’t get forced into having another person put you into a bet that you didn’t sign up for. You’re allowed to just… not know, you know?



Whatever’s true is what always would have been true anyways, regardless of one’s belief in Infernalism / Annilhationism / Universalism.

Give her monopoly money

 

[The Learner]

speechless

 

[Taken]

I had this idea a few Daily Quotes back, but now I have the time to expand on it today Dec 1 2023 Friday.

I’m currently a Christian Universalist, so my personal flavour of it is that all people will have faith alone in Christ either pre-mortem or post-mortem to gain permanent salvation.

…that all people will have faith alone in Christ either pre-mortem or post-mortem to gain permanent salvation.

Regarding manKIND:
Agree…ALL will BELIEVE.
Disagree….ALL will RECEIVE Salvation.

Understanding A “man-KIND” of thing.

* Natural Body of earthly Flesh IS a man.
The body’s LIFE is BLOOD.

* Natural Spirit of earthy Man IS his natural Truth in his Heart.

* Supernaturally MADE Soul (belongs to God). Supernatural LIFE IN the Soul (belongs to God), is called Gods Breath.

God created and made…all things FOR His pleasure.
To EVERY SEED, God “gives” that seed it’s OWN BODY.
The BODY, with it’s own Seed, is designed to pro-create it SAME KIND of thing.

Seed of man, pro-creates man.
Seed of tree, pro-creates a tree.
Seed of animal, pro-creates an animal…and so forth.
Any SEED, literally DIES, MUST Die, in “order” to procreate LIFE.
The offspring of that seed, has it’s own seed to continue reproducing it’s same KIND of thing.

Seed of man, fertilizes egg of woman…
Establishes “conception”.
God FORMS the body of that conception over a period of (typically 9 months), that FORMING thing, is protected engulfed in Water.
Life of that Body (of man) is it’s BLOOD, from which the FORMING (by Gods Hand), such BLOOD is sending nutrients, TO the internal Organs being formed, and WASTE FROM the internal Organs being formed.
That developing (being formed) LIVING thing (called a manKIND of thing), coming forth OUT FROM being engulfed IN WATER, is called that Living thing (a manKIND of thing); CALLED being BORN.

WHEN at such time…The Lord God GIVES TO; That (birthing/born) BODY He FORMED…
His BREATH OF LIFE, in a soul He has MADE, INTO that BODY.
WHY? What DOES Gods BREATH of LIFE (in a soul), IN a Body manKIND do?

In a nut shell…ACTIVATES, (causes the SENSES) to become ALIVE.
Eyes…see
Ears….hear
Mouth…utters sound
Tongue…tastes
Nose….smells
Flesh….feels touch

And what is the POINT of having ACTIVE ALIVE “senses” “outside of the womb” but ‘not in the womb’ ?

COMMUNICATION.
Every “sense” of a Man-KIND of thing…
IS expressly used for Communication between and among men….and Even unto the Lord God.

Earthly men ARE NOT naturally BORN forth from the womb; Knowing or Believing IN the Lord God Almighty.

However Earthly manKIND IS equipped with a SOUL FROM God, with Gods Breath of LIFE which “activated LIFE in their “Senses”….to LEARN ABOUT the Lord Gods Almighty….and thereafter WHILE ALIVE IN their own BLOOD LIFE BODY….
TO Freely Learn, TO Freely Choose;
TO BELIEVE IN the Lord God Almighty…
OR NOT.
TO CONFESS their BELIEF IN the Lord God Almighty…
OR NOT.
(Ie. Communication)

WILL ALL BELIEVE ? Yes.
WILL ALL CONFESS THEIR BELIEF ? Yes.

WILL ALL Believe “OR” Confess their Belief…
WHILE ALIVE IN THEIR OWN BODILY BLOOD LIFE? No

God IS the God OF the LIVING.
A man while ALIVE in his OWN (Bodily) BLOOD LIFE, IS OFFERED “SALVATION”, for ANY ALIVE willing man TO TAKE.

How DOES a DEAD BODILY (no LIFE, no BLOOD), man TAKE Gods OFFERING of SALVATION?

He doesn’t. He can’t. His bodily (BLOOD) LIFE is DEAD, knows NOTHING, can DO NOTHING.

Have any specific questions about any specific comment I have posted?
Copy, paste my specific comment, and ask your question about my specific comment


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Hi Taken,

Interesting reply, thanks for sharing. For me I personally think that all will believe in Christ and all will receive salvation. But I appreciate your response my friend as well, it's quite intriguing. God bless

Hi Harold,

Curious, Why that is your belief.
Mind sharing?


God Bless,
Taken

 

[The Learner]

Hi Taken,

Interesting reply, thanks for sharing. For me I personally think that all will believe in Christ and all will receive salvation. But I appreciate your response my friend as well, it's quite intriguing. God bless

all will receive salvation?

 

[The Learner]

“You can ask your Discord friends [my real name], if you want some advice” my Christian Infernalist mother says to me after she comes downstairs around 8:08 PM. It seems she may be referring to the Christian Universalists Discord server which I moderate on, the concept that all shall obtain faith in Christ and thus gain permanent life. Earlier on this same day, my mother was shouting again, making an excuse about how she would not follow my advice because I am not a parent.



I tell my mother that I told my sister to try to avoid sharing like information to my mother. Because, as my homophobic emotionally abusive mother is doing right now, she’s using that information as part of her manipulation tactics, saying that she wants to contact my Christian grandfather on my father’s side to get him involved in the situation, he who is homophobic and who physically abused my father. I’m afraid of the possibility that these two abusers may team up with each other to cause even more abuse.



She also wants to get, from our father’s side: our grandmother and two of our cousins who she names, involved in this drama too. And she said that she wants my father to talk to a friend that my sister is going to hang out with, which is invasive considering my sister is an adult. My sister has told me that even the parents of another one of my sister’s friends do not like our mother.



And my mother says that I should ask my former Dr. boss too who I worked for as a researcher in academia. Is she implying a threat here? Because she has my former Dr. boss’ contact information. I hope she does not try to ruin my professional reputation from there.



Recently before, my mother had my father drive her to try to find my sister. I tell my mother that if my father stopped obeying her orders like that, then she would find that no one in this household is on her side here.



It’s ironic because my sister and I were talking in the kitchen, before my mother arrived, and she told me how I’m like 22 years old, and how I’ve had to go through 5 more years of this [abuse] than she did. But I’m impressed by my sister, who has been fighting back for justice against my mother’s verbal abuse far more often and longer than I’ve had. God bless her.



```Amos 5:24 But let justice roll down like water and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream. ```

Righteousness must flow like an ever-flowing stream, annilhationism and infernalism being that which permanently clogs this stream, through the permanent loss of potential righteousness and the permanent existence of sin.

Sorry all, I thought I was on the mormon thread.

 

[The Learner]

AT leaste interresting

 

[Taken]

Hi Taken,

Well, I've gone through many beliefs before. I used to be an infernalist, who believed that some people are tortured forever. But now I think "Hey, since those sinners are being punished forever, that means sin still exists, so God's gotta get rid of sin". I used to be an annihlationist too but then I think now "Hey, God created people knowing in advance that He would permanently destroy them? That seems wasteful to me and ineffecient". For me I think Christian Universalism resolves those problems from the other two camps quite well in my opinion.

God bless as well my friend,
- Harold

Hi Harold,
Thank you for sharing.
Interesting you and your mom’s dialogue.
Can’t say for your mom, but seems for you, you are landing on the WHY of what makes sense to your mind.
Fact is what a human can not see, hear, taste, smell, touch does not make logical sense to a mind that it exists.
When a human can not make logical sense of “something”, and then ascribe a “negative” connotation to that which does not make sense, the human feeling content what makes sense to them is “not negative”.
Torture forever or Annihilation to you does not make sense that is what a Loving God would do.

I agree with your perspective that ALL shall believe.
The WHY, is Because ALL shall SEE “the Son of Man” BEFORE He steps foot “ON” the Earth.
The HOW, is Because OF “the souls” of men.
Man is the body…it’s life is BLOOD.
A mans body…is created with a mind, heart, organs, tissue, bones, that are hidden within a female womb, while it is being created. etc.
Shall be born forth out of its water surrounding.
It’s mind shall think and conclude logical thoughts weighing between this and that.
It’s “natural spirit” (thoughts in its heart), shall be that humans truth).

All souls are Gods…it’s life is Gods Breath.
(ezek 18:4)
The eyes do not see as they are being created. The nose does not smell, the ears do not hear, the flesh does not feel touch, the tongue does not taste, the mouth does not utter sounds….UNTIL…
The man-thing exits it water sac of where it was being “created”.
THEN does God “give, blow, enter INTO that manKIND of thing…Something FROM God.
A “soul” with “Gods Breath of Life”….
* WHY, what does that Do?
“Makes” the eyes see, ears hear, nose smell, tongue taste, mouth utter sounds, flesh feel touch.
* WHY, is that necessary ?
“It is the very basics of How that individual man SHALL “communicate”…” with other humans, with animals, with God.
* WHAT, is the identity of “that” soul called ?
It is called, by whatever NAME that Body is given.
It thereafter is personal to that human man, that he calls, my soul, and others call his soul.

The Understanding is God Creates “AND” Makes. Two different things.
Creation…one thing God has already accomplish-ED.
Mankind…is continually Discovering Gods Creations.
And God….is continually Making “changes” to His “Creations”.

Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

How Does God “continue” to MAKE changes to His Creations?
More Works.

How ? Communication.
How ? His Word of Knowledge given man.
How ? Visions to men. Men speak. Men write. Men Copy writings. Men distribute. Men see His Works, Men hear His Words.

Does the “Word” of God, Have a Name to call Gods “Word” ? Yes. JESUS.

Does the “Maker” of God, Have a Name to call Gods “Maker” ? Yes. JESUS.

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Do you like parallels?
This Word of God, This Maker of God, This Life of God, This Light of God…is ALSO called…The SUN … SON of God.

Humans Get “glimpses” of “spiritual things” a man Cannot SEE, by, though, of parallels a man CAN SEE.
Man gets glimpses of the Sun, can see momentarily (can’t stare at its brightness), can feel it, can notice it without cloud cover, can notice it unseen covered by clouds, can notice night time in Darkness it is not visible.
Point being It is always IN the sky, man can NOT approach, and NOT always visible, but Does Always over come Darkness.
* ALSO, “the moon”, has NO LIGHT of its own.
The moon, ONLY has “reflective” Light from the Sun shining upon it.
* Sometimes we see “a full moon”, Light from the sun UPON the moon…and routinely, Light not shining upon the moon…bit by bit…
* Another parallel…of Gods Light shinning upon men, then a little bit, then not, then fully, then not….AND the teaching of Gods Word for the Son of God, being the Light of the world, and Light of man….
TO…cover his darkness, (his sin).
* Covering of darkness…of a mans sin…IS
Literally effected…By, through, of…Gods Grace and offering of Mercy…OF Forgiveness (when man is “naturally born of water”…NOT believing IN God….and Discovers God…and begins to hear, see His creations, trusts He can MAKE what was NOT, become MADE what IS.

* The Offering IS from God.
* The Giving IS from God.

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

John 3:
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


* The Choice IS a mans Freewill to Choose…or Not.
* The Taking IS a mans Freewill to Take…
or Not.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Rom 4:
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Point being…
there IS a consequence FOR choosing God, For Accepting God,, which you Do recognize … Forever LIFE.

Point being…
There is ALSO a consequence FOR choosing to Reject belief IN God, and to Reject God.
… Forever VOID of LIFE.

God is the GIVER and TAKER of LIFE.
Some “souls, spirits” will Forever HAVE LIFE.
Some “souls & spirits” will Forever NOT Have Life.

How does a man VOID of LIFE…(Blood) ”live eternally IN torments” ? Contradiction … void of life is not a living thing.

How does a soul VOID of LIFE…(Gods breath)…”live eternally IN torments”? Contradiction…a soul Void of life is not a living thing.

How does a mans natural spirit (which is a mans natural truth in his heart), “live eternally IN torments”, (or simply live eternally) when his blood LIFE is dead?

God Offers…A WAY…for a human man to CHOOSE… eternal LIFE…
A soul that will LIVE forever, WITH Gods breath in it.
A natural spirit, “born again” of Gods SEED, that it NEVER Die.
A MADE a new BODY, raised UP, anew, cleansed of it’s sin, THEN without SIN, called Glorified.

All life, (BLOOD & its natural spirit) of all body’s of men SHALL Die. Must Die. God requires that.

Gen 9:
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

And Nothing can be MADE anew, until IT FIRST DIES.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, (ie made alive forever)…except it die:


OT men HAD to Believe and Bodily Die before they could be MADE anew (saved soul, spirit reborn). (Same applies today for men who believe, (but NOT “converted”…) IF that man does not STOP believing, to the “his end”, ie the day his body dies.

Jesus’ WORKS, was revealing, a DEATH “with Him”…(crucified with Jesus)…is satisfactory for God to account THAT choice and act of a man, to BE crucified with Jesus…as fulfilling…A man MUST ONCE DIE.

Heb 9:
[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

John 10:
[25] Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Same for a man. Works a man Does, bears witness of him.
* Believe…okay, hope a man has enough power to not be convinced by other higher, stronger powers, to stop believing.
And Gods spirit will be “WITH” that man.

* Confess Belief…okay, hope changes to ASSURANCE…Gods POWER (above all other powers), Enters WITH-IN that man, and nothing whatsoever has a greater Power to Ever allow that man TO (fall from faith) ie stop believing.

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

God is Just.
God is Faithful.

Some men, souls, spirit…will live Forever.
Some men, souls, spirit…will not Live Forever. (Nor can a thing that is NOT LIVING, suffer torment, pain, hurt, sadness….etc. IT is DEAD…IT knows and feels nothing.
(Ecc 9:5)

Just sharing.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[The Learner]

bumpoooo

 

[The Learner]

there must be help in your area. See if Love Inc is there.

 

[rwb]

My beliefs that are relevant to this discussion are as follows:
-> Everyone goes to Heaven.

When you say "everyone goes to heaven" are you saying the spirit in every man returns to God in heaven who gave it?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Since it is the spirit of everyone that goes to heaven at physical death, does that mean that everyone shall be eternally saved?

 

[rwb]

There was an Infernalist that I was messaging online yesterday, today being Dec 8th 2023, and they showed this verse:



``` Matthew 10:28 28 Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell ```

Matthew 10:28 - Fear God Alone



Ironically, I think it’s more of an argument towards Christian Annilhationism than Christian Infernalism.



From a Christian Universalism perspective, that all shall believe in Christ and all shall be saved, “hell” hell refers to Gehenna aka γεέννῃ (geennē) Strong's 1067.



Obviously, there’s no fear in agape love 1 John 4:18 and God is agape love 1 John 4:16, so it’s better translated as “revere” God. So whatever God is destroying in Gehenna is something we should see as “respectable”.



An annihlationist may argue that God has respect towards a person by permanently destroying them rather than tormenting them forever, but the thing is, God is the one who created Gehenna, so ultimately it should do what God wants it to do. Since God’s goodness is perfectly good, so it must also act in an optimally good way. Now, say a person is permanently destroyed.



Think of the suffering they experienced in life, all the evil they have seen under the sun Ecclesiastes 10:5-7.



God knew that they were going to permanently destroyed, so why make them go through all that suffering anyways? It would have been better if God had never had created them at all Ecclesiastes 4:2-3.



Therefore, because of God’s agape love for the whole world, everyone that has been created is someone that God wanted to be created. So there exists that goodness, from God, that is there inside each and every one of us. But wait! God’s goodness is perfectly good, right? Would God destroy good. Does it not make more sense that, God destroys the evil parts of a person’s body and soul in Gehenna, rather than permanently destroying them?



Now that is someone truly worth showing reverence towards.

Aren't you forgetting the purpose for human lineages? Human lineages contain both those who shall be saved as well as the reprobate. If the wicked are destroyed before those coming from the same line who shall be saved, the Kingdom of God will not be complete. The lake of fire is called the second death. What does that tell you?

 

[rwb]

That's a good point in favour of Christian Universalism. But yes, I do think everyone shall be eternally saved. I think each of us has an aspect of goodness, as we are all made in the image of God Genesis 1:27, so I think it only makes sense that God wants to reconcile with every image of Himself that He Himself made.

If everybody shall be saved there would be no purpose for the lake of fire that is the second death. Why would some need to die twice if all shall be saved?

 

[The Learner]

When you say "everyone goes to heaven" are you saying the spirit in every man returns to God in heaven who gave it?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Since it is the spirit of everyone that goes to heaven at physical death, does that mean that everyone shall be eternally saved?

The word in Hebrew means life breath, not a person's spirit.

Genesis 2:7
King James Version
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

[The Learner]

There was an Infernalist that I was messaging online yesterday, today being Dec 8th 2023, and they showed this verse:



``` Matthew 10:28 28 Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell ```

Matthew 10:28 - Fear God Alone



Ironically, I think it’s more of an argument towards Christian Annilhationism than Christian Infernalism.



From a Christian Universalism perspective, that all shall believe in Christ and all shall be saved, “hell” hell refers to Gehenna aka γεέννῃ (geennē) Strong's 1067.



Obviously, there’s no fear in agape love 1 John 4:18 and God is agape love 1 John 4:16, so it’s better translated as “revere” God. So whatever God is destroying in Gehenna is something we should see as “respectable”.



An annihlationist may argue that God has respect towards a person by permanently destroying them rather than tormenting them forever, but the thing is, God is the one who created Gehenna, so ultimately it should do what God wants it to do. Since God’s goodness is perfectly good, so it must also act in an optimally good way. Now, say a person is permanently destroyed.



Think of the suffering they experienced in life, all the evil they have seen under the sun Ecclesiastes 10:5-7.



God knew that they were going to permanently destroyed, so why make them go through all that suffering anyways? It would have been better if God had never had created them at all Ecclesiastes 4:2-3.



Therefore, because of God’s agape love for the whole world, everyone that has been created is someone that God wanted to be created. So there exists that goodness, from God, that is there inside each and every one of us. But wait! God’s goodness is perfectly good, right? Would God destroy good. Does it not make more sense that, God destroys the evil parts of a person’s body and soul in Gehenna, rather than permanently destroying them?



Now that is someone truly worth showing reverence towards.

psot the full chapter

 

[rwb]

The word in Hebrew means life breath, not a person's spirit.

Genesis 2:7
King James Version
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Look up the definition of "breath of life." You'll discover our breath of life is the spirit in mankind.

God formed man from the dust of the earth, and breathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul. That equals body + spirit = living soul. The breath is our intellect, inspiration, soul & spirit, which gave life to the body God formed from dust.

 

[The Learner]

Look up the definition of "breath of life." You'll discover our breath of life is the spirit in mankind.

God formed man from the dust of the earth, and breathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul. That equals body + spirit = living soul. The breath is our intellect, inspiration, soul & spirit, which gave life to the body God formed from dust.

exploring friend:

What the Bible says about Breath of Life
(From Forerunner Commentary)

Revelation 6:9 The word "souls" (psuchás, plural of psuché) also requires explanation, as the Greek word is far too complex in meaning to define facilely as a person's immortal essence, as most Catholics and Protestants are wont to do. Its basic meaning is "breath" and is thus equivalent to the Hebrew nephesh and Latin anima (as in English "animal" and "animate"). One of its uses is as the New Testament version of what Genesis 2:7 calls "the breath of life," that is, the vital force that makes a body live: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being [nephesh]." Luke 12:20 and Acts 20:10 use psuché in this manner. From this basic meaning derives its extensions: as "life" (see Matthew 6:25; John 10:11; Philippians 2:30; Revelation 12:11) and "living being" (see I Corinthians 15:45; Revelation 16:3). In addition, psuché can refer to the seat of emotion, will, and desire, whereas we would use the terms "heart," "mind," "personality," or "being" today (see Luke 1:46; Acts 14:2, 22; Hebrews 6:19; II Peter 2:14). In a similar sense, it can also identify man's moral and spiritual life (see Hebrews 13:17; I Peter 1:22; 2:11, 25; 4:19; III John 2). Some try to read immortality into certain biblical uses of psuché (for instance, Acts 2:27, 31; II Corinthians 1:23; Revelation 20:4), but the Bible does not support such an interpretation. In fact, in one of these, Matthew 10:28, Jesus confirms that souls can indeed be destroyed (also supported by the Old Testament in Job 33:22; Ezekiel 18:4, 20)! One must consult extrabiblical sources (such as Plato, Xenophon, Herodotus, and other Greek writers) to find usages of psuché that define "the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death" (Thayer's Lexicon). How then is this word used in Revelation 6:9? We must remember that John is viewing a vision (Revelation 1:10), a symbolic representation for mortal eyes and minds of future events, not reality. One cannot see a person's actual soul, that is, his being, his life, so what John saw were representations of those who had been martyred. He probably literally saw bodies (Greek soma) under the altar but chose to identify them as psuchás, "lives" or "persons," because, as the next verses show, the vision depicts them speaking and receiving clothing, things a person can do only while alive. The important point to remember is that John specifically identifies them as having been "slain"—they are dead. The Bible elsewhere shows that "the dead know nothing" (Ecclesiastes 9:5) and cannot work, plan, learn, or pursue any activity in the grave (verse 10). Thus, John, a Hebrew, is using psuché in the same sense as Old Testament writers sometimes use nephesh, as "dead body," a being that once had life (see Leviticus 21:11; Numbers 6:6; 9:6-7, 10; 19:11, 13; Haggai 2:13). Richard T. Ritenbaugh

 

[The Learner]

The word in question is Hebrew, not Greek.

Brown-Driver-Briggs
נְשָׁמָה noun feminine breath; — ׳נ Deuteronomy 20:16 9t.; construct נִשְׁמַת (compare LagBN 82) Genesis 2:7 10t.; suffix נִשְׁמָתִי Job 27:3; נִשְׁמָתוֺ Job 34:14; plural נְשָׁמוֺת Isaiah 57:16; —
1 breath of God as hot wind kindling a flame Isaiah 30:33; as destroying wind 2 Samuel 22:16 = Psalm 18:16; Job 4:9; as cold wind producing ice Job 32:8; Job 33:4.

2 breath of man 1 Kings 17:17; Isaiah 42:5; Job 27:3; Daniel 10:7; breath of life נשׁמת חיים Genesis 2:7 (J); compare נִשְׁמַת רוּחַ חַיִּים Genesis 7:22 (J); as breathed in by God it is God's breath in man Job 34:14; Job 36:4; and is characteristic of man אדם אשׁר נשׁמה באפו Isaiah 2:22 man in whose nostrils is but a breath (late gloss).

Scripture is progressive. And, later took on the meaning of spirit of man. Context of Gen 2:7 is breath of life.

 

[The Learner]

Very interresting all.

What are the basic tenants of Univerisalists?

 

[One 2 question]

If everybody shall be saved there would be no purpose for the lake of fire that is the second death. Why would some need to die twice if all shall be saved?

Prison (penitentiary) is for those who have been convicted of a crime and are required by law to lose their freedom for their offences for a designated time. But once they have completed their time they are released. It is hoped that during their time in confinement they would acknowledge and repent of their crimes. Now I saw that at some time in the future after the judgement of God was passed down to those who had offended God’s laws (everyone) excluding those whose names are written in the book of life, were put into a place of confinement to do their time. But there came a time when all those who were sent to this place became penitent, repented on bended knee and confessed Jesus as their Lord. All of them were redeemed and reconciled to the One Who had Created them. At this point all were brought together as one, unified with their God, not one was left behind, not one left out of God’s kingdom so that the Lake of fire (probably not a literal fire as the angels are spirits which maybe cannot burn) was empty. Yay!