7 PAGAN FESTIVALS WE STILL CELEBRATE TODAY ~ under the guise of Christian celebrations and names.

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Rella ~ I am a woman

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Hello Rella,

Not a word?

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Pax et Bonum
NO!!!

Participation is not receiving of a conversion into either the blood of Christ or the body of Christ.

BTW... Unless things have changed drastically since I observed a Catholic communion.... of which there have been many..... you don't even give out both elements.
Only the bread.... to the flock.

So when Christ Jesus is quoted in

1 Corinthians 11:23-25

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

When only the priests partake of the wine(alleged blood) that is ignoring what Christ Jesus said when He included both for all partakers..... ?


So let me post a commentary regarding why I personally say there is no definitive declaration within the four corners of the Holy Bible.... (Remember... Your New Testament and Mine are the same books)


Commentary by Sinclair Ferguson

What does Scripture mean when it says that our receiving the Lord’s Supper is “a participation in” the body and blood of Christ (1 Cor. 10:16)? Today, Sinclair Ferguson articulates the marvelous truth expressed in these words.

Transcript

This week on Things Unseen, we’ve been reflecting on some of the New Testament words that help us to understand and to enjoy the Lord’s Supper, words that help focus our minds when we come to the Lord’s Table. And we’ve thought about proclamation and benediction or blessing. Today’s word is participation, or if you prefer, communion.
You remember Paul’s question to the Corinthian Christians, “The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation, or communion, in the blood of Christ? And the bread that we break, is it not a participation, or communion, in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body because we all partake of the one bread.”
I’m sure you know that the Greek word that lies behind the word participation or communion is koinōnia. It’s the word for fellowship, communion, sharing in something. So, Paul is saying that when we receive the Supper, we are sharing in—we’re having communion in—the Lord’s body and blood. But what does that mean?
Well, he’s obviously echoing here what Jesus said when He instituted the Lord’s Supper. He gave the disciples the bread and the wine and said: “This is my body . . . this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins” (Matt. 26:26–28). And what did He mean by that?
I think the best way to think about this is not to leap to conclusions—something we’re tempted to do because this question has proved to be controversial—but to build up our answer step by step. So first of all, I think it should be clear at the outset that Jesus wasn’t identifying the bread and wine with His body and blood. His body and blood were present at the table. The bread and the wine were in His hands. It must have been obvious to the disciples that they weren’t one and the same. So then, what He was saying was something like this: “Here at this table, what I give you expresses My love for you. This bread and wine represent Me. They express Me as incarnate in flesh and blood. And so, when I offer you this bread and wine, I’m offering you nothing less than Myself. And correspondingly, when you eat and drink, you are accepting Me, receiving Me, taking Me, trusting in Me, the incarnate Son of God, and doing that because you know I’m the one who sheds this precious blood for you to bring you forgiveness of sins.”
So what Jesus was saying was this: “Listen, loved ones, in this ritual, in this little drama, just as by eating the Passover lamb you expressed your share in the exodus, so now by taking the bread and the wine, you’re expressing your share in the new exodus I’m going to accomplish. You’re actually expressing your share in Me. In the old Passover, you took the exodus as your own, but now in the supper, you’re taking Me as your own.” Remember how in John 6 Jesus said that unless we eat His flesh and drink His blood, we have no life in us? And He had earlier explained what He meant by eating and drinking as coming to Him, believing in Him, having communion with Him. And it’s exactly the same here.
So, how does that help us understand what we’re doing at the Lord’s Table? Well, I think the New Testament wants us to understand that we’re not just eating bread and drinking wine, nor are we just trying to remember what Jesus did for us. The bread and the wine are not merely aid memoirs to us, helping us to think about how Jesus died for us. If that were the case, then the supper should really have been described as a time of reflection. But it’s more—it’s a time of communion. It’s Jesus offering Himself to us by means of these love-gifts of bread and wine and saying, “Come to Me, and you’ll find rest. Receive Me. Trust Me. Love Me. Enjoy being with Me. Have communion with Me.’
So, just as a man may take a ring out of a box and offer it to a woman as a way of saying: “I love you, body and soul. I love you, and I offer myself to you to be your husband. Will you receive me and welcome me?” In the same way, Jesus Christ meets us at the table. And when we take the bread and the wine as His engagement ring of love, then we’re receiving Him and having communion with Him. And yes, there’s even more, and we’ll come to that tomorrow. And I hope you’ll join us then.

 
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David in NJ

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Fine.Dont celebrate Christs mass.

See,that passage is OT. And what is often inconsistent in discussions such as this is while that OT passage is offered to condemn celebration of Christians Savior, the OT commandments of God are in other discussions dismissed by some Christians because they claim those apply to Jews only.

There's a lack of consistency in discrimination.
Nobody is condemning the celebration of Christ coming into the world as our Savior.

OT Prophecy is all about Christ Coming as Savior AND the exposure of religion which seeks to masquerade as 'christian'.

Celebrate Christ's Coming on Purim = the perfect gift giving time of the year = "for God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son"
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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Ummmm, since when does "Memory" or "remembrance" mean "metaphor"??
You remember things that are real - not imagined.

John 6:54-55
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Article by
Jon Bloom

Staff writer, desiringGod.org
The day before, Jesus had fed 5,000 people with a few loaves and fish. Then that night he walked miles across the Sea of Galilee before catching up with his disciples in their boat. The crowd had seen him send his disciples away in the only boat available. So the next day, when they found him in Capernaum, they knew he could have only got there miraculously. They wanted him to be their king.
Then he went and ruined everything. To his adoring fans Jesus said,
“Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” (John 6:26–27)
Confused, they asked him how they could work to please God. He replied, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent” (John 6:29). (God isn’t looking for workers. He’s looking for believers.)
Jesus was a hero to the crowd because he had fed them. But Jesus discerned something very wrong about their enthusiasm. They wanted more “bread from heaven” (John 6:32).

More Than Bread​

But wanting the blessings Jesus provides is not the same thing as believing in him. Indeed, Jesus had come to give them bread from heaven. But not that kind of bread.
So, to test them, he began to make statements that sounded very strange. He told them that he was the true bread from heaven that gives life to the world, and whoever eats this bread would live forever.
“Jesus had come to give them bread from heaven. But not the kind of bread they were looking for.”
Then he said, “And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh” (John 6:51). This sounded like cannibalism. His listeners balked. He pressed it even further:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.” (John 6:53–55)
The “Jesus for King” campaign evaporated. The people walked away, shaking their heads. The crazy man wants us to eat his flesh! They completely misunderstood what Jesus was saying.
So what did he mean? Here are the clues:
How do you labor for the food that endures to eternal life? Believe in me! (John 6:27, 29) “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me [in faith] shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.” (John 6:35) “For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:40) “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.” (John 6:47)

Eating Is Believing​

For Jesus, eating is believing; drinking is believing. He promises eternal life to those who believe in him. Believe what?
Believe that his death — the breaking of his body and spilling of his blood — pays in full the penalty for our sin, and that his perfect righteousness is freely given to us in exchange for our unrighteousness.
“Jesus instituted the Lord’s Supper because he did not want us to forget the very core of what we believe.”
Believing this is how we “eat” Jesus’s flesh and “drink” his blood. This is why he instituted the Lord’s Supper: he did not want us to forget the very core of what we believe.
When the crowd took offense at his gruesome talk, Jesus exposed their unbelief: “The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe” (John 6:63–64).
Let’s you and I be like Peter. He didn’t walk away, but instead said to Jesus, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God” (John 6:68–69).
 

BlessedPeace

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Nobody is condemning the celebration of Christ coming into the world as our Savior.

OT Prophecy is all about Christ Coming as Savior AND the exposure of religion which seeks to masquerade as 'christian'.

Celebrate Christ's Coming on Purim = the perfect gift giving time of the year = "for God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son"
That would certainly upset the RT proponents.



And to think, Judaism was polytheistic pagan before it became monotheistic.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Article by
Jon Bloom

Staff writer, desiringGod.org
The day before, Jesus had fed 5,000 people with a few loaves and fish. Then that night he walked miles across the Sea of Galilee before catching up with his disciples in their boat. The crowd had seen him send his disciples away in the only boat available. So the next day, when they found him in Capernaum, they knew he could have only got there miraculously. They wanted him to be their king.
Then he went and ruined everything. To his adoring fans Jesus said,

Confused, they asked him how they could work to please God. He replied, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent” (John 6:29). (God isn’t looking for workers. He’s looking for believers.)
Jesus was a hero to the crowd because he had fed them. But Jesus discerned something very wrong about their enthusiasm. They wanted more “bread from heaven” (John 6:32).

More Than Bread​

But wanting the blessings Jesus provides is not the same thing as believing in him. Indeed, Jesus had come to give them bread from heaven. But not that kind of bread.
So, to test them, he began to make statements that sounded very strange. He told them that he was the true bread from heaven that gives life to the world, and whoever eats this bread would live forever.

Then he said, “And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh” (John 6:51). This sounded like cannibalism. His listeners balked. He pressed it even further:

The “Jesus for King” campaign evaporated. The people walked away, shaking their heads. The crazy man wants us to eat his flesh! They completely misunderstood what Jesus was saying.
So what did he mean? Here are the clues:
How do you labor for the food that endures to eternal life? Believe in me! (John 6:27, 29) “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me [in faith] shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.” (John 6:35) “For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:40) “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.” (John 6:47)

Eating Is Believing​

For Jesus, eating is believing; drinking is believing. He promises eternal life to those who believe in him. Believe what?
Believe that his death — the breaking of his body and spilling of his blood — pays in full the penalty for our sin, and that his perfect righteousness is freely given to us in exchange for our unrighteousness.

Believing this is how we “eat” Jesus’s flesh and “drink” his blood. This is why he instituted the Lord’s Supper: he did not want us to forget the very core of what we believe.
When the crowd took offense at his gruesome talk, Jesus exposed their unbelief: “The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe” (John 6:63–64).
Let’s you and I be like Peter. He didn’t walk away, but instead said to Jesus, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God” (John 6:68–69).
Funny that the historic Christian Church NEVER taught what you posted.

There is also a major flaw in that explanation that most Protestants overlook:
Jesus usually explains what He means to His disciples - as in the Parable of the Sower (Matthew 13:36-43) and the Parable of the Weeds (Mark 4:10-20)

Not only did He NOT explain what He “really” meant in John 6 – He turns to His inner circle and asks them, “Do YOU also want to leave?” (John 6:67)

The Passover Lamb was to be devoured completely.
Jesus is OUR Passover Lamb. The Last Supper was instituted to give us the sacramental prescription for consuming His flesh and blood, which is TRUE food and
TRUE drink (John 6:55).
 
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BreadOfLife

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NO!!!

Participation is not receiving of a conversion into either the blood of Christ or the body of Christ.

BTW... Unless things have changed drastically since I observed a Catholic communion.... of which there have been many..... you don't even give out both elements. Only the bread.... to the flock.

So when Christ Jesus is quoted in

1 Corinthians 11:23-25​

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

When only the priests partake of the wine(alleged blood) that is ignoring what Christ Jesus said when He included both for all partakers..... ?

Not true.

The cup is available to ALL communicants

So let me post a commentary regarding why I personally say there is no definitive declaration within the four corners of the Holy Bible.... (Remember... Your New Testament and Mine are the same books)

As for a YOUR standard of a “definitive declaration” being necessary for believing in the things of God – show me where the Bible “definitively declares” –
Sola Scriptura (Scripture ALONE)
Sola Fide (Faith ALONE)
A Pre-Trib “Rapture”
Limited Atonement

Eternal Security

Even REAL doctrines like the Trinity have no "definitive declaration" in Scripture . . .
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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Not true.

The cup is available to ALL communicants

As for a YOUR standard of a “definitive declaration” being necessary for believing in the things of God – show me where the Bible “definitively declares” –
Sola Scriptura (Scripture ALONE)
Sola Fide (Faith ALONE)
A Pre-Trib “Rapture”
Limited Atonement

Eternal Security

Even REAL doctrines like the Trinity have no "definitive declaration" in Scripture . . .
Lets hit the easiest one first.

Sola Fide (Faith Alone)

is important because it is one of the distinguishing characteristics or key points that separate the true biblical Gospel from false gospels. At stake is the very Gospel itself and it is therefore a matter of eternal life or death.

Getting the Gospel right is of such importance that the Apostle Paul wrote in Galatians 1:9 “As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”

Paul was questioning on what basis is humanity declared by God to be justified?

Paul was wanting to know if it is by faith alone or by faith combined with works?

And in concluding Paul makes it clear in Galatians and Romans that humanity is “justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law”

Lol: Wonder if Kamala studied him...? He tells us in Galatians 2:16 "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

And I say from my studies the rest of the Bible agrees.

Now, you mentioned also Sola Scriptura (Scripture ALONE)

Fact of the matter is there are 5 Solas and deviating from one will lead to error in another essential doctrine, and the result will almost always be a false gospel which is powerless to save.

The essential Christian doctrines are represented by these five "Latin" phrases which accurately summarize the biblical teaching on these crucial subjects: sola scriptura (Scripture alone), sola fide (faith alone), sola gratia (grace alone), sola Christus (Christ alone), and sola Deo gloria (for the glory of God alone).

Now, since this has been primarily about faith alone, or faith with works I am only going to concentrait on Sola Fide...

This is a key point of difference between not only Protestants and Catholics but between biblical Christianity and almost all other religions and teachings.

The teaching that we are declared righteous by God (justified) on the basis of our faith alone and not by works is a key doctrine of the Bible and a line that divides most CULTS from biblical Christianity.

It is undeniable fact that most religions and cults teach people what works they must do to be saved HOWEVER the Bible teaches that we are not saved by works WE ARE SAVED by God’s grace through His gift of faith ... Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [a]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Do you not understand that biblical Christianity is distinct from every other religion in that it is centered on what God has accomplished through Christ’s finished work and all other religions are based on human achievement.

Fact..... If we abandon the doctrine of justification by faith, we abandon the only way of salvation.

Do you remember 2 Cor 5:21? He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

What does this mean?.....that those that trust Christ Jesus for justification by faith alone are those that are imputed with His righteousness

Simply said ...Sola fide is the doctrine of justification by faith alone apart from works and is simply recognizing what is taught over and over in Scripture

I wont bore YOU with what the likes of Martin Luther or others you would never study
said on this but I will say That is why Paul so adamantly denounces those who taught law-keeping or other works of righteousness in Galatians 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

But maybe, just maybe you will believe Abraham. He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.
And know, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham:
'‘All nations will be blessed through you.’ So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’ Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, ‘The righteous will live by faith’” Galatians 3:6-11tipping_hat_smiley.gif
 

David in NJ

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And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”
 
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Philip James

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NO!!!

Participation is not receiving of a conversion into either the blood of Christ or the body of Christ.

BTW... Unless things have changed drastically since I observed a Catholic communion.... of which there have been many..... you don't even give out both elements.
Only the bread.... to the flock.

So when Christ Jesus is quoted in

1 Corinthians 11:23-25​

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

When only the priests partake of the wine(alleged blood) that is ignoring what Christ Jesus said when He included both for all partakers..... ?

So let me post a commentary regarding why I personally say there is no definitive declaration within the four corners of the Holy Bible.... (Remember... Your New Testament and Mine are the same books)




Hello Rella,

Thank you for that, It is well said and most of it I would probably agree with,

This however

"So first of all, I think it should be clear at the outset that Jesus wasn’t identifying the bread and wine with His body and blood."

is not clear at all, for Jesus did indeed identify the bread and wine as His Body and Blood.


And this is exactly right:

"I love you, body and soul. I love you, and I offer myself to you to be your husband. Will you receive me and welcome me?” In the same way, Jesus Christ meets us at the table."

For that is indeed what is happening, the Groom offering Himself to His bride, and she receiving Him, the 2 are made 1 flesh...

That Christ is substantially present in the Eucharist is demostrably the Faith of the Church for 2000 years..

Where is the community founded by an apostle that teaches otherwise?

Pax et Bonum

p.s. I have received the Cup many times.. but Jesus is fully present in both the Bread and the Cup, receiving under both kinds does not give one more of Jesus, or receiving only one kind receive any less...
 
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BlessedPeace

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Didn't t
Lets hit the easiest one first.

Sola Fide (Faith Alone)

is important because it is one of the distinguishing characteristics or key points that separate the true biblical Gospel from false gospels. At stake is the very Gospel itself and it is therefore a matter of eternal life or death.

Getting the Gospel right is of such importance that the Apostle Paul wrote in Galatians 1:9 “As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”

Paul was questioning on what basis is humanity declared by God to be justified?

Paul was wanting to know if it is by faith alone or by faith combined with works?

And in concluding Paul makes it clear in Galatians and Romans that humanity is “justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law”

Lol: Wonder if Kamala studied him...? He tells us in Galatians 2:16 "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

And I say from my studies the rest of the Bible agrees.

Now, you mentioned also Sola Scriptura (Scripture ALONE)

Fact of the matter is there are 5 Solas and deviating from one will lead to error in another essential doctrine, and the result will almost always be a false gospel which is powerless to save.

The essential Christian doctrines are represented by these five "Latin" phrases which accurately summarize the biblical teaching on these crucial subjects: sola scriptura (Scripture alone), sola fide (faith alone), sola gratia (grace alone), sola Christus (Christ alone), and sola Deo gloria (for the glory of God alone).

Now, since this has been primarily about faith alone, or faith with works I am only going to concentrait on Sola Fide...

This is a key point of difference between not only Protestants and Catholics but between biblical Christianity and almost all other religions and teachings.

The teaching that we are declared righteous by God (justified) on the basis of our faith alone and not by works is a key doctrine of the Bible and a line that divides most CULTS from biblical Christianity.

It is undeniable fact that most religions and cults teach people what works they must do to be saved HOWEVER the Bible teaches that we are not saved by works WE ARE SAVED by God’s grace through His gift of faith ... Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [a]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Do you not understand that biblical Christianity is distinct from every other religion in that it is centered on what God has accomplished through Christ’s finished work and all other religions are based on human achievement.

Fact..... If we abandon the doctrine of justification by faith, we abandon the only way of salvation.

Do you remember 2 Cor 5:21? He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

What does this mean?.....that those that trust Christ Jesus for justification by faith alone are those that are imputed with His righteousness

Simply said ...Sola fide is the doctrine of justification by faith alone apart from works and is simply recognizing what is taught over and over in Scripture

I wont bore YOU with what the likes of Martin Luther or others you would never study
said on this but I will say That is why Paul so adamantly denounces those who taught law-keeping or other works of righteousness in Galatians 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

But maybe, just maybe you will believe Abraham. He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.
And know, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham:
'‘All nations will be blessed through you.’ So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’ Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, ‘The righteous will live by faith’” Galatians 3:6-11View attachment 37360
Didn't the Council of Trent decree the 5 Solas anathema, cursed?
 
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David in NJ

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Hello Rella,

Thank you for that, It is well said and most of it I would probably agree with,

This however

"So first of all, I think it should be clear at the outset that Jesus wasn’t identifying the bread and wine with His body and blood."

is not clear at all, for Jesus did indeed identify the bread and wine as His Body and Blood.


And this is exactly right:

"I love you, body and soul. I love you, and I offer myself to you to be your husband. Will you receive me and welcome me?” In the same way, Jesus Christ meets us at the table."

For that is indeed what is happening, the Groom offering Himself to His bride, and she receiving Him, the 2 are made 1 flesh...

That Christ is substantially present in the Eucharist is demostrably the Faith of the Church for 2000 years..

Where is the community founded by an apostle that teaches otherwise?

Pax et Bonum

p.s. I have received the Cup many times.. but Jesus is fully present in both the Bread and the Cup, receiving under both kinds does not give one more of Jesus, or receiving only one kind receive any less...
JESUS never instituted transubstantiation.

NEWS FLASH - the wafer remains a wafer AND the wine/juice remains as wine/juice

NEWS FLASH - Idolatry can be corporate and individualistic and in this case it is BOTH

SALVATION TRUTH FLASH - Flee idolatry
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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Didn't t

Didn't the Council of Trent decree the 5 Solas anathema, cursed?
This council???? :eek:

The Council of Trent was the most important movement of the Catholic Counter-Reformation, the Catholic Church’s first significant reply to the growing Protestants Reformation. The primary purpose of the council was to condemn and refute the beliefs of the Protestants, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, and also to make the set of beliefs in Catholicism even clearer. Approximately forty clergymen, mainly Catholic bishops, were in attendance during the twenty-five times over the next eighteen years that the Council convened.
 
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Philip James

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JESUS never instituted transubstantiation.

NEWS FLASH - the wafer remains a wafer AND the wine/juice remains as wine/juice

NEWS FLASH - Idolatry can be corporate and individualistic and in this case it is BOTH

SALVATION TRUTH FLASH - Flee idolatry
Ah David.

You;re breaking my heart, But before I put you on the ignore list, I'd ask you to consider the following:

Everywhere the spirit of anti-christ rises 2 things always rise with it..

1, the slaughter of the innocents (abotion)

2, efforts to put an end to the daily sacrifice. (we will not comply)

For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

Pax et Bonum
 
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BlessedPeace

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This council???? :eek:

The Council of Trent was the most important movement of the Catholic Counter-Reformation, the Catholic Church’s first significant reply to the growing Protestants Reformation. The primary purpose of the council was to condemn and refute the beliefs of the Protestants, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, and also to make the set of beliefs in Catholicism even clearer. Approximately forty clergymen, mainly Catholic bishops, were in attendance during the twenty-five times over the next eighteen years that the Council convened.
 
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David in NJ

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Ah David.

You;re breaking my heart, But before I put you on the ignore list, I'd ask you to consider the following:

Everywhere the spirit of anti-christ rises 2 things always rise with it..

1, the slaughter of the innocents (abotion)

2, efforts to put an end to the daily sacrifice. (we will not comply)

For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

Pax et Bonum
My catholic friend - the "daily sacrifice" is NOT referring to Christ

The "daily sacrifice" is animal blood and was done away with when God had the Temple destroyed.

Hebrews 9:23-28
So it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ did not enter a man-made copy of the true sanctuary, but He entered heaven itself, now to appear on our behalf in the presence of God.

25Nor did He enter heaven to offer Himself again and again, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise, Christ would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

27Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.

Be like King David and pray this prayer but only do so in FAITH - Psalm 51:14-17

Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
The God of my salvation,
And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness.
O Lord, open my lips,
And my mouth shall show forth Your praise.
For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

Peace in the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ my LORD and Savior who washed away my sins = FOREVER
 

The Learner

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Those who took it literally stopped following Jesus from that moment.
John 6
Easy-to-Read Version
Jesus Feeds More Than 5000
6 Later, Jesus went across Lake Galilee (also known as Lake Tiberias). 2 A great crowd of people followed him because they saw the miraculous signs he did in healing the sick. 3 Jesus went up on the side of the hill and sat there with his followers. 4 It was almost the time for the Jewish Passover festival.

5 Jesus looked up and saw a crowd of people coming toward him. He said to Philip, “Where can we buy enough bread for all these people to eat?” 6 He asked Philip this question to test him. Jesus already knew what he planned to do.

7 Philip answered, “We would all have to work a month to buy enough bread for each person here to have only a little piece!”

8 Another follower there was Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter. Andrew said, 9 “Here is a boy with five loaves of barley bread and two little fish. But that is not enough for so many people.”

10 Jesus said, “Tell everyone to sit down.” This was a place with a lot of grass, and about 5000 men sat down there. 11 Jesus took the loaves of bread and gave thanks for them. Then he gave them to the people who were waiting to eat. He did the same with the fish. He gave them as much as they wanted.

12 They all had plenty to eat. When they finished, Jesus said to his followers, “Gather the pieces of fish and bread that were not eaten. Don’t waste anything.” 13 So they gathered up the pieces that were left. The people had started eating with only five loaves of barley bread. But the followers filled twelve large baskets with the pieces of food that were left.

14 The people saw this miraculous sign that Jesus did and said, “He must be the Prophet[a] who is coming into the world.”

15 Jesus knew that the people planned to come get him and make him their king. So he left and went into the hills alone.

Jesus Walks on Water
16 That evening Jesus’ followers went down to the lake. 17 It was dark now, and Jesus had not yet come back to them. They got into a boat and started going across the lake to Capernaum. 18 The wind was blowing very hard. The waves on the lake were becoming bigger. 19 They rowed the boat about three or four miles. Then they saw Jesus. He was walking on the water, coming to the boat. They were afraid. 20 But he said to them, “Don’t be afraid. It’s me.” 21 When he said this, they were glad to take him into the boat. And then the boat reached the shore at the place they wanted to go.

The People Look for Jesus
22 The next day came. Some people had stayed on the other side of the lake. They knew that Jesus did not go with his followers in the boat. They knew that the followers had left in the boat alone. And they knew it was the only boat that was there. 23 But then some boats from Tiberias came and landed near the place where the people had eaten the day before. This was where they had eaten the bread after the Lord gave thanks. 24 The people saw that Jesus and his followers were not there now. So they got into the boats and went to Capernaum to find Jesus.

Jesus, the Bread of Life
25 The people found Jesus on the other side of the lake. They asked him, “Teacher, when did you come here?”

26 He answered, “Why are you looking for me? Is it because you saw miraculous signs? The truth is, you are looking for me because you ate the bread and were satisfied. 27 But earthly food spoils and ruins. So don’t work to get that kind of food. But work to get the food that stays good and gives you eternal life. The Son of Man will give you that food. He is the only one qualified by God the Father to give it to you.”

28 The people asked Jesus, “What does God want us to do?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work God wants you to do is this: to believe in the one he sent.”

30 So the people asked, “What miraculous sign will you do for us? If we can see you do a miracle, then we will believe you. What will you do? 31 Our ancestors were given manna to eat in the desert. As the Scriptures say, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”

32 Jesus said, “I can assure you that Moses was not the one who gave your people bread from heaven. But my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 God’s bread is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 The people said, “Sir, from now on give us bread like that.”

35 Then Jesus said, “I am the bread that gives life. No one who comes to me will ever be hungry. No one who believes in me will ever be thirsty. 36 I told you before that you have seen me, and still you don’t believe. 37 The Father gives me my people. Every one of them will come to me. I will always accept them. 38 I came down from heaven to do what God wants, not what I want. 39 I must not lose anyone God has given me. But I must raise them up on the last day. This is what the one who sent me wants me to do. 40 Everyone who sees the Son and believes in him has eternal life. I will raise them up on the last day. This is what my Father wants.”

41 Some Jews began to complain about Jesus because he said, “I am the bread that comes down from heaven.” 42 They said, “This is Jesus. We know his father and mother. He is only Joseph’s son. How can he say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

43 But Jesus said, “Stop complaining to each other. 44 The Father is the one who sent me, and he is the one who brings people to me. I will raise them up on the last day. Anyone the Father does not bring to me cannot come to me. 45 It is written in the prophets: ‘God will teach them all.’[d] People listen to the Father and learn from him. They are the ones who come to me. 46 I don’t mean that there is anyone who has seen the Father. The only one who has ever seen the Father is the one who came from God. He has seen the Father.

47 “I can assure you that anyone who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread that gives life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna God gave them in the desert, but it didn’t keep them from dying. 50 Here is the bread that comes down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will never die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my body. I will give my body so that the people in the world can have life.”

52 Then the Jews began to argue among themselves. They said, “How can this man give us his body to eat?”

53 Jesus said, “Believe me when I say that you must eat the body of the Son of Man, and you must drink his blood. If you don’t do this, you have no real life. 54 Those who eat my body and drink my blood have eternal life. I will raise them up on the last day. 55 My body is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Those who eat my body and drink my blood live in me, and I live in them.

57 “The Father sent me. He lives, and I live because of him. So everyone who eats me will live because of me. 58 I am not like the bread that your ancestors ate. They ate that bread, but they still died. I am the bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

59 Jesus said all this while he was teaching in the synagogue in the city of Capernaum.

Many Followers Leave Jesus
60 When Jesus’ followers heard this, many of them said, “This teaching is hard. Who can accept it?”

61 Jesus already knew that his followers were complaining about this. So he said, “Is this teaching a problem for you? 62 Then what will you think when you see the Son of Man going up to where he came from? 63 It is the Spirit that gives life. The body is of no value for that. But the things I have told you are from the Spirit, so they give life. 64 But some of you don’t believe.” (Jesus knew the people who did not believe. He knew this from the beginning. And he knew the one who would hand him over to his enemies.) 65 Jesus said, “That is why I said, ‘Anyone the Father does not help to come to me cannot come.’”

66 After Jesus said these things, many of his followers left and stopped following him.

67 Jesus asked the twelve apostles, “Do you want to leave too?”

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, where would we go? You have the words that give eternal life. 69 We believe in you. We know that you are the Holy One from God.”

70 Then Jesus answered, “I chose all twelve of you. But one of you is a devil.” 71 He was talking about Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. Judas was one of the twelve apostles, but later he would hand Jesus over to his enemies.

Footnotes
John 6:14 Prophet They probably meant the prophet that God told Moses he would send. See Deut. 18:15-19.
John 6:19 three or four miles Literally, “25 or 30 stadia,” about 5 or 6 km.
John 6:31 Quote from Ps. 78:24.
John 6:45 Quote from Isa. 54:13.