A burning thorn bush:

[charity]

'And unto Adam He said,
Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife,
and hast eaten of the tree,
of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:
cursed is the ground for thy sake;
in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee;
and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,
till thou return unto the ground;
for out of it wast thou taken:
for dust thou art,
and unto dust shalt thou return.'
(Gen 3:17-19)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Please don’t judge me but some of my favorites I feel like God has spoken to me through their songs.

This one about breaking out…

This one about being natural, a heart of stone…to make it in this world.

And strangely, you give love a bad name. It reminds me of the woman in proverbs that loves death calling to her fellow. And NT where they promise you freedom and Liberty while they themselves are still in bondage.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

cursed is the ground for thy sake;
in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee;
and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,
till thou return unto the ground;
for out of it wast thou taken:
for dust thou art,
and unto dust shalt thou return.'

Cursed is the heart
It is the sorrow we eat of … this world should agree and teach us that. For it is what comes out of the heart…
The heart that grows thorns and thistles. Or also the mind that grows these thorns and thistles…it bearing the fruit unto death. “For dust you are.” Or that is how I hear it. The heart and mind (the spirit of it) is what makes sorrowful or glad. the condition of the heart and mind. Yes. I get the imagery of a wilderness or desert of thorns and briars and thistle …that is dry and cumbersome to walk with no way through. Snagged. Pricked. Overgrowth; thicket. As the world gives water unto death, a spirit of fear unto bondage that brings forth out from the heart death. God gives not as the world gives unto you, the Water He gives is Living water which grows and waters bringing forth the Spirit (out of the ground prepared of God)of power, of Love, and a sound Mind which is fruit unto God, Life. to me that is the point that He can give Living water to that which is thirsty. Maybe wrong but I could only find two times He speaks of Holy Ground. Well three although It isn’t called Holy ground but seed sown in a New Heart which bears fruit unto God. It doesn’t speak (Imo) of literal ground where seed is sown…but instead the condition of the heart and mind. To me the ground in the parable of the seed sown and bears fruit unto Life and not death. it is encouraging that it is possible that is the ground that He calls “Holy” and Holy ground prepared of God, which bears the fruit of Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

@VictoryinJesus

Thank you for this thread. It has directed my thoughts on this subject upon which i never really looked into as much.

Could there be more? Looking now at the 'Burning Bush that was not consumed'???

Deut 4:23-24 "Take heed to yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the Lord your God which He made with you, and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of anything which the Lord your God has forbidden you.
For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God"

The above passage is direct from Moses who had First Hand Direct Experience!

Now I will rise,” says the Lord;
“Now I will be exalted,
Now I will lift Myself up.
And the people shall be like the burnings of lime;
Like thorns cut up they shall be burned in the fire.

Why was the thorn-bush not consumed by God's Holy Fire???

Is the Gospel Message in the "Bush that did not burn"???

We know that the LORD wore a crown of thorns on His Head as He went to the Cross.
This should be yet another 'AHA Moment' for all jws who are blinded to who JESUS IS.

The thorn-bush is not consumed. Could that also portray the Gospel Message???

Are we all not dead dried thorn-bushes BEFORE Salvation? = Ephesians 2:1 "And you were dead in trespasses and sins"

God has reserved His Wrath for One Day = Matthew 13:30 and 2 Thess 1:7-8 and 2 Thess 2:8
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming."


CONCLUSION: IMHO = i SEE that the Fire of God preserves us from Judgment(Bush does not Burn) so that we can be SAVED
and with the SAME Power/Judgment will consume those who believe not the Gospel = John 3:16-21

Peace

 

[Mr E]

@VictoryinJesus

Thank you for this thread. It has directed my thoughts on this subject upon which i never really looked into as much.

Could there be more? Looking now at the 'Burning Bush that was not consumed'???

Deut 4:23-24 "Take heed to yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the Lord your God which He made with you, and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of anything which the Lord your God has forbidden you.
For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God"

The above passage is direct from Moses who had First Hand Direct Experience!

Now I will rise,” says the Lord;
“Now I will be exalted,
Now I will lift Myself up.
And the people shall be like the burnings of lime;
Like thorns cut up they shall be burned in the fire.

Why was the thorn-bush not consumed by God's Holy Fire???

Is the Gospel Message in the "Bush that did not burn"???

We know that the LORD wore a crown of thorns on His Head as He went to the Cross.
This should be yet another 'AHA Moment' for all jws who are blinded to who JESUS IS.

The thorn-bush is not consumed. Could that also portray the Gospel Message???

Are we all not dead dried thorn-bushes BEFORE Salvation? = Ephesians 2:1 "And you were dead in trespasses and sins"

God has reserved His Wrath for One Day = Matthew 13:30 and 2 Thess 1:7-8 and 2 Thess 2:8
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming."


CONCLUSION: IMHO = i SEE that the Fire of God preserves us from Judgment(Bush does not Burn) so that we can be SAVED
and with the SAME Power/Judgment will consume those who believe not the Gospel = John 3:16-21

Peace

The absolute best example of the fire that didn't burn is recorded in Daniel 3.

Daniel had been elevated to the King's Court because of his God-given ability to understand dreams, and at his request he gets his three buddies promoted to lofty provincial administration positions in Babylon. But deep state whistleblowers appear on scene and tattle-tale on these government officials and they get called up on charges for which they plead guilty.

A trial by fire--- and the punishment is just that. "If your God is able to save you-- let Him."

They go through the tribulation. And while those around them who are subjected to the same heat immediately perish, the three friends are spared. Sorry pre-tribbers.... they do go through the testing. But they emerge on the other side of it, unscathed-- without even the scent of a singed hair. For everyone else, the tribulation continued with a new decree from the King-

I hereby decree that any people, nation, or language group that blasphemes the God of Shadrach, Meshach, or Abednego will be dismembered and his home reduced to rubble!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

A trial by fire--- and the punishment is just that. "If your God is able to save you-- let Him."

I Love it because of one of my favorite Psalms at the moment.
Psalm 42:10-11 As with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where is thy God? [11] Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.

All through the Psalm there is the asking of “where is your God.”
Reminds me of what you posted “If your God is able to save you—let Him.” They said the same
Matthew 27:39-43 And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, [40] And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. [41] Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said, [42] He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. [43] He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

 

[David in NJ]

@VictoryinJesus

Here is my SEEING from the Holy Scriptures

Looking back to Moses and the "burning Bush that was not consumed" and then Forward to the Gospel and the Apostles


i SEE the Fire of God is Holiness that both SAVES His Elect and CONSUMES the wicked(satan and his followers)

i SEE the Fire of God at Pentecost upon the heads of His Elect = the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

i SEE the Fire of God within our bosom = His Word that cannot be 'shut up'

i SEE JESUS/the WORD Returning to gather His Elect and in Flaming Fire = Vengeance upon the wicked

i SEE the "Mystery of God" in Daniel 12:1-3

1“At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting [a]contempt.
3Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

 

[Mr E]

I Love it because of one of my favorite Psalms at the moment.
Psalm 42:10-11 As with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where is thy God? [11] Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.

All through the Psalm there is the asking of “where is your God.”
Reminds me of what you posted “If your God is able to save you—let Him.” They said the same
Matthew 27:39-43 And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, [40] And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. [41] Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said, [42] He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. [43] He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Yes, they said the same thing..... it's the same story of course. The same story told again and again. Different actors/agents each playing their parts with nuance, but the same story nonetheless.

 

[Mr E]

I Love it because of one of my favorite Psalms at the moment.
Psalm 42:10-11 As with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where is thy God? [11] Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.

All through the Psalm there is the asking of “where is your God.”
Reminds me of what you posted “If your God is able to save you—let Him.” They said the same
Matthew 27:39-43 And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, [40] And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. [41] Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said, [42] He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. [43] He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

It's not the nature of the bush, that prevents it from being consumed. Neither is it the nature of the fire. Fire consumes all, thorn, thistle and evergreen alike---- unless they are protected from that fire in a supernatural way. It's like when the angel of death passed over those doors that were marked with the lamb's blood-- those people- all of them went through the same tribulation events (plagues) yet some were sheltered from all the effects and in particular when that angel of death (servant of God) came calling. Those protected were preserved, while everyone else had no means of escape.

If you can see Moses himself as that bush-- that dry and tumbling weed- a desert bramble every bit deserving of destruction by fire (a fugitive from justice, a murderer) it's only by the supernatural intervention of God that he is preserved from the natural consequence. He is as that bush, burning-- but not consumed.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, they said the same thing..... it's the same story of course. The same story told again and again. Different actors/agents each playing their parts with nuance, but the same story nonetheless.

Maybe strange but why I love that Psalm so much now is the cry for God to help. I thought of bearing only thorns and thistle…the curse in Genesis 3:17-18. “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten from the tree I commanded you saying “you shall not eat from it, curse is the ground because of you; in toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.” What ground was cursed? That it bears sorrow upon sorrow, growing thorns and thistle and briars.

Why I love that Psalm is the cry for God …the Psalm asking “how long” will the ground bear thorns and thistle and briars? They keep mocking “where is your God?” bearing the thorns and thistle and briars in bringing forth a constant mocking “where is your God?”

I hear the Psalms crying how long til the curse is removed and the ground be made Holy, made New bringing forth good fruit unto God. (Speaking of the heart of man) “My tears have been food day and night. While they say to me all day long “where is your God?” These things I pour out my soul in me. For I used to go with the throng(a THICKET of men, a crowd) …consider this with NT when you no longer run with them, they think it is strange. “And lead them in procession to the House of God, with the voice of joy and thanksgiving, a multitude keeping festival. Why are you in despair, Oh my soul? Why have you become disturbed in me? HOPE in God, for I praise Him (For) the Help of His presence.

…further on In the Psalm
“The LORD. Will command (I see an orchestra, the Orchestrator God); Command His Lovingkindness in the daytime, And HIS SONG will be with me in the night, A PRAYER to The GOD of my Life.

Point is …is the Psalm a Prayer to God that the ground which is Holy Ground bring forth not thorns, thistle and briars amongst a thicket of men who mock “where is your God” but instead good fruit of the Spirit of God sown in ground not cursed but blessed of Him?

 

[Mr E]

Maybe strange but why I love that Psalm so much now is the cry for God to help. I thought of bearing only thorns and thistle…the curse in Genesis 3:17-18. “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten from the tree I commanded you saying “you shall not eat from it, curse is the ground because of you; in toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.” What ground was cursed? That it bears sorrow upon sorrow, growing thorns and thistle and briars.

Why I love that Psalm is the cry for God …the Psalm asking “how long” will the ground bear thorns and thistle and briars? They keep mocking “where is you God?” bearing the thorns and thistle and briars in bringing forth a constant mocking “where is your God?”

I hear the Psalms crying how long til the curse is removed and the ground be made Holy bring forth good fruits unto God. (Speaking of the heart of man) “My tears have been food day and night. While they say to me all day long “where is your God?” These things I pour out my soul in me. For I used to go with the throng(a THICKET of men, a crowd) …consider this with NT when you no longer run with them, they think it is strange. “And lead them in procession to the House of God, with the voice of joy and thanksgiving, a multitude keeping festival. Why are you in despair, Oh my soul? Why have you become disturbed in me? HOPE in God, for I praise Him (For) the Help of His presence.

…further on In the Psalm
“The LORD. Will command (I see an orchestra, the Orchestrator God); Command His Lovingkindness in the daytime, And HIS SONG will be with me in the night, A PRAYER to The GOD of my Life.

Point is …is the Psalm a Prayer to God that the ground which is Holy Ground bring forth not thorns, thistle and briars naming a thicket of men who mock “where is your God” but instead good fruit of the Spirit of God sown in ground not cursed but blessed of Him?

Excellent.

The soil (like the fire) is irrespective of what's in it.

The same soil (adamah) grows plants and thorns side by side. Yet at the end of the age when the fire comes, it's the thorns and thistles that are gathered up for destruction in the flames, while the fruit (produce/seed/wheat) is protected from that fire.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It's not the nature of the bush, that prevents it from being consumed. Neither is it the nature of the fire. Fire consumes all, thorn, thistle and evergreen alike---- unless they are protected from that fire in a supernatural way. It's like when the angel of death passed over those doors that were marked with the lamb's blood-- those people- all of them went through the same tribulation events (plagues) yet some were sheltered from all the effects and in particular when that angel of death (servant of God) came calling. Those protected were preserved, while everyone else had no means of escape.

If you can see Moses himself as that bush-- that dry and tumbling weed- a desert bramble every bit deserving of destruction by fire (a fugitive from justice, a murderer) it's only by the supernatural intervention of God that he is preserved from the natural consequence. He is as that bush, burning-- but not consumed.

Can see Moses as the bramble.
Also can see others as bramble(to clarify I don’t mean in degrading terms but in commonality.) Like the mirror of brother approaches another brother…one sees only flesh (his own natural face) and turns away from his brother offended by his own natural face. Consider how most often what we judge others for, most often unknowingly we hate the very thing within our own self. Another continues on in Liberty going from glory(flesh) to Glory (Spirit). Seeing Christ, beyond the bramble? I mean, Who’s Voice spoke out from the midst of the burning bush. Basically to me it is getting over yourself (I mean myself) and not saying “don’t stand near me. I’m holier than you.” It is continuing on in mercy and Grace. Brother to brother. Or that is what it has come to mean to me. To me I see this in His Word. A Hope. A promise.

For example the passage
2 Corinthians 5:16-21 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. [21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Yet His saying to see beyond the bramble —the natural face? …what is “face to face” and to be not as Lord’s over God’s heritage but as helpers of —“til Christ be formed in you”. The Spirit of God edifying, increasing, multiplied, sown, strengthened as to why the burning bush is not consumed? The bond of love.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If you can see Moses himself as that bush-- that dry and tumbling weed- a desert bramble every bit deserving of destruction by fire (a fugitive from justice, a murderer) it's only by the supernatural intervention of God that he is preserved from the natural consequence. He is as that bush, burning-- but not consumed.

Reminds me of
Lamentations 3:19-23 Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall. [20] My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me. [21] This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope. [22] It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. [23] They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

 

[Mark51]

Just sharing a thought about "take off your sandals for the place on which you are standing is Holy Ground."
What is "Holy Ground"? What is “the Holy Ground” upon which you stand? The only place I can think of Holy "Ground" is in relation to the parables of that which is sown in good ground yields fruit unto God. In the parable it speaks of the ground as the heart.

in the Old Testament the other time "Holy Ground" is spoken of is when Moses approaches the burning thorn bush. Not just any ramble or burning thorn bush, but a burning thorn bush that isn’t consumed. Out from the burning thorn bush, The Lord speaks. He speaks of a time when men will turn away, not continuing on in the Glorious Liberty of the Lord (like with the mirror; being transformed from "glory" to "Glory"), and of a time when all men will want the ears to tingle turning away from sound doctrine. Moses goes to turn away from the burning thorn bush to see such a marvelous sight of "why the thorn bush burns but is not consumed? (It is by the Lord's mercies we are not consumed). Moses is told by the Lord speaking out from the Burning thorn bush (that ramble which is weak yet strengthened and not consumed by the Voice speaking from within it); Moses is told to remove his sandals for he stands upon "Holy Ground." (Or that is how i understood it.)

Consider for a moment how we carry this treasure in a weak earthen vessel that the Power be of God and not of men.
It is likely (Imo) that Stephen was a burning thorn bush out from which the Lord spoke: Stephen burned but not consumed, by the Voice speaking from within the burning. Paul asked for his thorn to be removed, yet the answer was "My strength is made perfect in weakness."

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.​

For God, who commanded the Light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.​

We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down. but not destroyed; always bearing about the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. So then death works in us, but life in you.​

​

​

A burning thorn bush bearing the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. Why consider Stephen as a burning thorn bush out from which the Lord spoke?But some men from what was called the synagogue of the "Freedmen" rose up and argued with Stephen.​

But they were unable to cope with the Wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking.​

We have heard him speak blasphemous words against God.​

They dragged Stephen to the council.​

The put forward false witnesses who said "He speaks against the Holy Place and the Law. We heard him say this Nazarene, Jesus will destory this place and the customs handed down to us."​

Fixing their eyes on Stephen. all who were sitting in the council saw his face like the face of an angel.


What is Holy Ground?
What ground is the seed of God sown?

By commanding that Moses remove his sandals constituted an act of respect-not because there was something unique about the ground that constituted it holy, but because of God’s presence. Later, the priests performed their duties at the tabernacle and the temple (holy places) barefooted. Similarly, removing one’s footwear is still a practice in the Middle East and many Asian counties.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

By commanding that Moses remove his sandals constituted an act of respect-not because there was something unique about the ground that constituted it holy

Constituted an act of respect. Not because there was something unique about the ground that constituted it holy.

Can see your point in it is the presence of God that Constituted the ground holy. I’m hesitate to say though there is nothing unique about the ground, similar to saying there is nothing unique about the New Heart given of God.
Because it is unique to me, although I again see your point that what makes it unique is His presence that makes it, New.

An example…is there anything unique about this ground? Mark 4:3-8 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow: [4] And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up. [5] And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: [6] But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. [7] And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. [8] And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

again I’m not disagreeing that it is because of His presence but also hesitate of where His presence is to call it as nothing unique. Like building up an habitation for God. While there may not be nothing unique about the habitation of God in and of itself apart from Him, yet His presence habituating it constitutes it as “Holy”.
No?

Later, the priests performed their duties at the tabernacle and the temple (holy places) barefooted.

Missing the point. (Imo) in Ephesians 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

I do see this what you spoke of as a show of respect. How in other countries they remove their shoes before walking into the house. Any home. I would love to practice this in my own home because well.. it seems truly smart in regards to how often you need to clean up and what is possibly tracked in from outside. But sure, this would be out of respect for whoever keeps the house.

 

[Wynona]

God, I believe, uses things we can see with our ordinary senses to mitigate His glory. His glory is too much for us to handle without some mediating factor. Jesus, the Word of God made flesh, is the prime example.

With the burning bush, we see the miraculous fire that didn't consume the ordinary bush. God wraps his glory in earthen vessels and I think it's a mercy to us.