A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

[tigger 2]

These letters are very old, older than the oldest Bible MSS.

Know what? The verses which these ECF refer to are MISSING from the Critical Text, but PRESENT in the Textus Receptus. So what does that tell you? That verses such as 1 John 5:7 KJV were "never there to begin with" as is argued by proponents of the Critical Text....or....were they in fact there to begin with - as evidenced by the ECFs quoting them - but later removed by those who "corrupt the word of God" (Colossians 2:17 KJV)???

............................................................
I think you'll find that the ECF (Early Church Fathers) or, better yet, the ANF (Ante Nicene Fathers) wrote the originals in very early manuscripts. However, all originals are long gone. Unlike the many manuscripts of the NT scriptures there are very few copies (sometimes only one) of these ECF available today, and they are relatively recent copies. They have also been altered by the many trinitarian copyists through the years.

my study of 1 John 5:7 - Examining the Trinity: 1 John 5:7 (KJV)

 

[Phoneman777]

............................................................
I think you'll find that the ECF (Early Church Fathers) or, better yet, the ANF (Ante Nicene Fathers) wrote the originals in very early manuscripts. However, all originals are long gone. Unlike the many manuscripts of the NT scriptures there are very few copies (sometimes only one) of these ECF available today, and they are relatively recent copies. They have also been altered by the many trinitarian copyists through the years.

my study of 1 John 5:7 - Examining the Trinity: 1 John 5:7 (KJV)

The letters of the ECFs to which I refer are older than the oldest NT MSS and prove the existence of verses which the Critical Text claims did not exist. The argument is over right here. The Critical Text is corrupted.

 

[face2face]

I have a question I was hoping to maybe get some answers on from non-Trinitarians. Here goes: Using scriptural proofs, what would you say is the difference between serving the man Jesus Christ and serving God? I ask because this question presents itself in the following passage of scripture:

22 Bondservants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh, not with eye-service as men-pleasers, but in sincerity of heart, fearing God. 23 And whatever you do, do it heartily, as unto the Lord and not to men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. Serve Christ the Lord. 25 But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality. (Colossians 3:22-25)

The Trinitarian interprets "the Lord" here to be one and the same in every verse, referring to the Lord Jesus Christ, whom Paul's readers were being encouraged to serve with sincerity of heart, in fearing God. The non-Trinitarian, however, interprets verses 22-24 to be references to serving God, whereas the phrase in v.24 "Serve Christ the Lord" is a sudden transition to talking about serving the man Jesus Christ.

So how from scripture is serving the man Jesus Christ different from serving God?

Blessings in Christ to all who respond.
Hidden In Him

Good question - I will allow OT & NT to kiss each for truth to speak

Psalms 2:2 The kings of the earth form a united front; the rulers collaborate against the Lord (Yahweh) and his anointed king (Context = David, Solomon and His descendants including Jesus; Romans 1:3 etc).

Acts of the Apostles 4:26 The kings of the earth stood together, and the rulers assembled together, against the Lord (Yahweh) and against his Christ.’ (FIRST PRAYER OF THE CONGREGATION!!!)

Yahweh mediately deals with mankind through His anointed ones, which in every case is a man, or a woman - prophet, priest and kings. God does not mediate Himself, on behalf of Himself, end of story!

First century Christians understood Psalm 2 to be prophetic, meaning the Messiah was promised to come in the future, i.e not yet in existence! otherwise it cannot be by promise, if the Christ was always alive. Every true Christian understands that a single all Powerful God is enthroned over all things and this is NOT the Christ!

Here is the kicker!

If the great revelation was a 3n1 god how would Acts 4:26 be written? Why not expand on this great truth of the Moshiach was ALL ALONG the Enthrone One Himself?

No, you have the OT & NT in harmony and the Man Jesus Christ is the anointed one who God now communicates through as per Hebrews 1:1-3; 1 Timothy 2:5.



Face2Face

 

[Kermos]

Psalm 45:7--Hebrews 1:3-4 proves your bibles are filled with errors.

According to your own measure, you cannot have an accurate translation of the Bible as shown in post #719 in this thread, in fact, The Watchtower Society's New World Translation has a myriad of human-induced translational deceptions, and this fact can and has been proven using techniques mentioned in the referenced post.

Along the same vein, you hypocritically accuse others of using Bibles that do not accurately represent God's Holy Name, yet the Watchtower Society's New World Translation mistranslates God's Holy Name as Jehovah again and again and again as shown in post #1657 in this thread, and in Truth (John 14:6) God's Holy Name is YHWH, so your bible is corrupt according to your very own measure (link to post 1686 in this thread containing detailed explanation of the development of the word Jehovah of which the developers intentionally separated the word Jehovah from God's Holy Name).

You, @Keiw, have been shown to be a liar about the Word of God such as your wicked claim that Jesus was created. and here are posts exposing your public deception:

• Since your heart's treasure is that "Plain Theos in the last line at John 1:1gets-a god", then you have two gods (YHWH God + Jesus a god = 2 gods) as shown in post #509 in this thread, in effect your heart rails against the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) being Jesus Christ being YHWH God (Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 45:5). And you repeat your evil proclamation as recorded in post #1247 in this thread
• You presented that Jesus is ho Theos in John 1:1 when you failingly asserted that I have two gods with your replacement of "the Word was with God" with "God was with God" as shown in post #1271 in this thread because the grammar must remain consistent, so the definite article for God needs to be included with your replacement text since the word "Word" has the definite article, so the accuracte replacement is "the God was with God", and there is ho Theos for the Word, Who is Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14).
• You claim the Wisdom of God was created according to your twisted interpretation of Proverbs 8
  as shown in post #733 in this thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure is that YHWH God started off as a stupid being.
• People like you are willingly ignorant of the creation (2 Peter 3:5) as shown in post #1445 in this thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure deliberately deceives.
• YOUR HEART LIED when you convey that Jesus is never called "the God" in the New Testament with your words of "Jesus is never called HoTheos in the NT" as shown in post #510 in this thread, in effect, you call the Apostle Peter a liar since he wrote "the God" referring to Jesus in 2 Peter 1:1 - you deny Apostolic teaching!
• You evilly adulterate the Word of God in your heart to be "I and the Father are exclusively one purpose and nothing else" as shown in post #1723 in this thread, yet Lord Jesus truly declared "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) thus Immanuel includes the person of the Father as well as the person of Jesus in being the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).
• You wickedly persist in denying that Jesus will reign forever in the kingdom of God as the angel Gabriel prescribed in Luke 1:33 as shown in post #557 in this thread, in effect, your thoughts of a 1,000 year limited reign for Jesus makes God's angel Gabriel out to be a liar since Gabriel declared "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).
• Your heart evilly adds 144,000 into the Book of Ezekiel to unscripturally tie the 144,000 into the Book of Revelation relating the 144,000 to your conjuring up of the Angel Michael being Jesus Christ, yet 144,000 is not mentioned in Ezekiel as shown in post #569 in this thread, in effect, your thoughts of Jesus being one and the same as Michael is your delusion as well as you adding to the Book of Revelation. Truly, Jesus is One with the Father (John 10:30).
• Your heart wickedly adds 1914 AD into "it was granted to take peace from the earth" (Revelation 6:4) as shown in post #427 in this thread, in effect your heart changes Revelation 6:4 to read "it was granted in 1914 to take peace from the earth".

So just like Charles Taze Russell, you, Keiw, you are adding to The Book of Revelation and/or you are subtracting from The Book of Revelation.

The year 1914 is not specified in the Book of Revelation; therefore, the following applies to you as a person who adds to the Book of Revelation:

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).

Therefore, you are an unreliable source.

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[PinSeeker]

Sorry, but my assessment is correct - that much is actually missing.

Sure, you're convinced of that, I get it. And I'm sure to that you will say that your position is objective as can be. That's fine with me; I would just say again that it is not "missing" at all, it's all there; here's a comparison of 1 John 5:1-12 between the King James and the English Standard versions:

KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
ESV
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world ~ our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

The exact wording may be a bit different, but the substance is very much the same ~ because of the continuing work of the Holy Spirit in maintaining the integrity of the Word of God. As Peter says (in referencing Isaiah), "the grass withers, and the flowers fade, but the Word of our God stands/endures forever."

Curiously, we have ancient letters written between the ECFs where they are referencing Bible verses (as Christians ordinarily would do today when corresponding with fellow Christians).

These letters are very old, older than the oldest Bible MSS.

Know what? The verses which these ECF refer to are MISSING from the Critical Text, but PRESENT in the Textus Receptus. So what does that tell you? That verses such as 1 John 5:7 KJV were "never there to begin with" as is argued by proponents of the Critical Text....or....were they in fact there to begin with - as evidenced by the ECFs quoting them - but later removed by those who "corrupt the word of God" (Colossians 2:17 KJV)???

In Colossians 2:17, Phoneman, Paul is talking about false teachers, and/or people who teach and practice things contrary to the Word of God. To this general comment I would continue in the same vein as immediately above, Phoneman, and say that because of the continuing work of the Holy Spirit, the Word of God cannot be corrupted ~ despite, certainly, continued efforts to do so; the continued exchanging of the truth for a lie, as Paul puts it in Romans 1 will be with us until the return of the King (Lord of the Rings reference...). But God's inerrant, infallible Word endures forever, because God ~ and everything about Him, including His Word ~ is perfectly holy, faithful and immutable.

Peace upon the Israel of God, the church.

We can certainly agree on that!

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Phoneman777]

Sure, you're convinced of that, I get it. And I'm sure to that you will say that your position is objective as can be. That's fine with me; I would just say again that it is not "missing" at all, it's all there; here's a comparison of 1 John 5:1-12 between the King James and the English Standard versions:

KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
ESV
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world ~ our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

The exact wording may be a bit different, but the substance is very much the same ~ because of the continuing work of the Holy Spirit in maintaining the integrity of the Word of God. As Peter says (in referencing Isaiah), "the grass withers, and the flowers fade, but the Word of our God stands/endures forever."


In Colossians 2:17, Phoneman, Paul is talking about false teachers, and/or people who teach and practice things contrary to the Word of God. To this general comment I would continue in the same vein as immediately above, Phoneman, and say that because of the continuing work of the Holy Spirit, the Word of God cannot be corrupted ~ despite, certainly, continued efforts to do so; the continued exchanging of the truth for a lie, as Paul puts it in Romans 1 will be with us until the return of the King (Lord of the Rings reference...). But God's inerrant, infallible Word endures forever, because God ~ and everything about Him, including His Word ~ is perfectly holy, faithful and immutable.


We can certainly agree on that!

Grace and peace to you.

I appreciate your thoughts on this, and I agree that the Godhead is clearly taught in Scripture as you and I both understand it. I still hold fast to my assertion there was much intrigue and attempts to corrupt the Bible on paper, despite the incorruptible nature of its existence. 1 John 5:7 KJV makes it irrefutably clear and that's why it had to be sacrificed to the occult dogma with which the servants of the enemy of Christ seek to replace the truth.

 

[Keiw]

According to your own measure, you cannot have an accurate translation of the Bible as shown in post #719 in this thread, in fact, The Watchtower Society's New World Translation has a myriad of human-induced translational deceptions, and this fact can and has been proven using techniques mentioned in the referenced post.

Along the same vein, you hypocritically accuse others of using Bibles that do not accurately represent God's Holy Name, yet the Watchtower Society's New World Translation mistranslates God's Holy Name as Jehovah again and again and again as shown in post #1657 in this thread, and in Truth (John 14:6) God's Holy Name is YHWH, so your bible is corrupt according to your very own measure (link to post 1686 in this thread containing detailed explanation of the development of the word Jehovah of which the developers intentionally separated the word Jehovah from God's Holy Name).

You, @Keiw, have been shown to be a liar about the Word of God such as your wicked claim that Jesus was created. and here are posts exposing your public deception:

• Since your heart's treasure is that "Plain Theos in the last line at John 1:1gets-a god", then you have two gods (YHWH God + Jesus a god = 2 gods) as shown in post #509 in this thread, in effect your heart rails against the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) being Jesus Christ being YHWH God (Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 45:5). And you repeat your evil proclamation as recorded in post #1247 in this thread
• You presented that Jesus is ho Theos in John 1:1 when you failingly asserted that I have two gods with your replacement of "the Word was with God" with "God was with God" as shown in post #1271 in this thread because the grammar must remain consistent, so the definite article for God needs to be included with your replacement text since the word "Word" has the definite article, so the accuracte replacement is "the God was with God", and there is ho Theos for the Word, Who is Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14).
• You claim the Wisdom of God was created according to your twisted interpretation of Proverbs 8
  as shown in post #733 in this thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure is that YHWH God started off as a stupid being.
• People like you are willingly ignorant of the creation (2 Peter 3:5) as shown in post #1445 in this thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure deliberately deceives.
• YOUR HEART LIED when you convey that Jesus is never called "the God" in the New Testament with your words of "Jesus is never called HoTheos in the NT" as shown in post #510 in this thread, in effect, you call the Apostle Peter a liar since he wrote "the God" referring to Jesus in 2 Peter 1:1 - you deny Apostolic teaching!
• You evilly adulterate the Word of God in your heart to be "I and the Father are exclusively one purpose and nothing else" as shown in post #1723 in this thread, yet Lord Jesus truly declared "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) thus Immanuel includes the person of the Father as well as the person of Jesus in being the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).
• You wickedly persist in denying that Jesus will reign forever in the kingdom of God as the angel Gabriel prescribed in Luke 1:33 as shown in post #557 in this thread, in effect, your thoughts of a 1,000 year limited reign for Jesus makes God's angel Gabriel out to be a liar since Gabriel declared "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).
• Your heart evilly adds 144,000 into the Book of Ezekiel to unscripturally tie the 144,000 into the Book of Revelation relating the 144,000 to your conjuring up of the Angel Michael being Jesus Christ, yet 144,000 is not mentioned in Ezekiel as shown in post #569 in this thread, in effect, your thoughts of Jesus being one and the same as Michael is your delusion as well as you adding to the Book of Revelation. Truly, Jesus is One with the Father (John 10:30).
• Your heart wickedly adds 1914 AD into "it was granted to take peace from the earth" (Revelation 6:4) as shown in post #427 in this thread, in effect your heart changes Revelation 6:4 to read "it was granted in 1914 to take peace from the earth".

So just like Charles Taze Russell, you, Keiw, you are adding to The Book of Revelation and/or you are subtracting from The Book of Revelation.

The year 1914 is not specified in the Book of Revelation; therefore, the following applies to you as a person who adds to the Book of Revelation:

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).

Therefore, you are an unreliable source.

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

You will find out its you and your bibles that are in error. That is sad, because you wont be allowed to enter Gods kingdom. Because you serve a non existent God created at a council of catholicism. Your translations are from catholicism translating as well, so in reality are putting your eternal life in their translating hands, even though their own translating exposes them as false religion. You are not standing in a wise place. The NWT corrected the errors translated in to fit their false council teachings, with 0 doubt. You can keep posting the same errors over and over it will do you no good.
In EVERY translation on earth Jesus teaches--John 17:3--The one who sent him( Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. You outright refuse to listen to him over catholicism translating errors. WHY?

 

[PinSeeker]

I appreciate your thoughts on this, and I agree that the Godhead is clearly taught in Scripture as you and I both understand it.

Sure. Thanks and same to you.

I still hold fast to my assertion there was much intrigue and attempts to corrupt the Bible on paper, despite the incorruptible nature of its existence.

Yes, there were false, competing "gospels" even in the first century, and it will continue until Jesus comes back. But Scripture is not corrupted; the Word of our God endures forever.

1 John 5:7 KJV makes it irrefutably clear;

So you think, I understand; we disagree on that.

...that's why it had to be sacrificed to the occult dogma with which the servants of the enemy of Christ seek to replace the truth.

Disagree. Again, there is no difference of any substance in the KJV and ESV passages of 1 John 5:1-12 above. But yes, the assaults, which will always come to nothing ~ which continue even in this forum, and even in this very thread ~ will continue until Christ's return.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Phoneman777]

Sure. Thanks and same to you.


Yes, there were false, competing "gospels" even in the first century, and it will continue until Jesus comes back. But Scripture is not corrupted; the Word of our God endures forever.


So you think, I understand; we disagree on that.


Disagree. Again, there is no difference of any substance in the KJV and ESV passages of 1 John 5:1-12 above. But yes, the assaults, which will always come to nothing ~ which continue even in this forum, and even in this very thread ~ will continue until Christ's return.

Grace and peace to you.

There's a very good YT series called "Total Onslaught" about how the occult world has been attacking Jesus since the beginning. I'm sure if you watched it, you'd be agreeing with me, but it's all good.

 

[PinSeeker]

There's a very good YT series called "Total Onslaught" about how the occult world has been attacking Jesus since the beginning. I'm sure if you watched it, you'd be agreeing with me, but it's all good.

So... Phoneman... I haven't watched it, and don't plan to, but this is pretty much what I've been saying. Yes, the spiritual war has been going full tilt for a long, long time ~ we can observe it happening in this very forum ~ and will continue until Jesus comes back, ramping up just before His return. So, maybe not on some of the particulars, but generally I think we're at least very close to each other in what we see happening and guarding our own hearts and, as Hebrews 12 says, laying aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and running with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Phoneman777]

So... Phoneman... I haven't watched it, and don't plan to, but this is pretty much what I've been saying. Yes, the spiritual war has been going full tilt for a long, long time ~ we can observe it happening in this very forum ~ and will continue until Jesus comes back, ramping up just before His return. So, maybe not on some of the particulars, but generally I think we're at least very close to each other in what we see happening and guarding our own hearts and, as Hebrews 12 says, laying aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and running with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith.

Grace and peace to you.

The history of the Bible is not there for interest's sake, but to help us identify the Beast power who has been attacking it since it arose, so that we can learn what is the Mark of the Beast and be sure to avoid the deceptions of the Beast.

 

[PinSeeker]

The history of the Bible is not there for interest's sake, but to help us identify the Beast power who has been attacking it since it arose, so that we can learn what is the Mark of the Beast and be sure to avoid the deceptions of the Beast.

Sure. Not to be dismissive at all; agreed. And... not to absolve us of personal responsibility in any way ~ we are to make our calling and election sure, but because it is God who is at work in us to will and work for His good pleasure, as Paul says in Philippians 2:12-13 ~ but God, by His perfect will and the working of the Holy Spirit, will keep us to the end. He Who began a good work in us will bring it to completion at the Day of Christ (Philippians 1:6). As Peter says:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for (us), who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this (we) rejoice..."
[1 Peter 1:3-6]​

Thanks be to God! To Him alone be all blessing, glory, honor, and praise.

Grace and peace to you, Phoneman.

 

[Kermos]

Please can you stop posting this same reply over and over again. I've lost count of the dozens of times that you've posted it. You're not helping anyone by continuing to repeat it. We've read it (more than once). Please move on, otherewise others like me will just ignore your posts and never take any notice of what you write. It's self-defeating to keep on repeating yourself.

@keithr

Your wicked heart treasure is revealed in your writings as illuminated by the next few post references.

Your mouth and fingertips reveal the treasure of your heart demoting Jesus to a mere man by way of your illegitimate linguistics (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #635 with post #636 in this thread) - you (1) YOU disassociate the act of the Holy Spirit of God in Luke 1:34-35, (2) YOU deny Jesus' equality with God makes Jesus God as witnessed by the Apostle John (John 5:18), and (3) YOU lie about the Apostle Thomas calling Jesus God because truthfully the Apostle John recorded that "Thomas answered and said to Him" with the Him being Jesus "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28)!

there's still more

You foolishly deny the context that Lord Jesus establishes the focus of "who God is" in the conversation recorded in John 8:31-5i at the outset (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #609 in this thread) - you quote the passage's conversation about "who God is" which contains a climactic conclusion then you proceeded to lie about the selfsame passage in your claim that the passage is not about "who God is".

there's still more

As a fool, you wickedly adulterate the multiple Apostle testimony that Jesus is God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1417 in this thread); in effect, you call the apostles liars, and you call Apostolic testimony deception.

there's still more

In your heart, John 1:1 reads "the Word was a god" resulting in Jesus being a separate god from YHWH God thus your "a god" is before YHWH God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1217 in this thread); therefore, YOU are in sin of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3), so you do not know Who Jesus is.

JESUS CHRIST IS TRULY YHWH GOD (JOHN 1:1-5, JOHN 1:14).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[keithr]

Your wicked heart treasure ...

As a fool, you wickedly ...

Ephesians 4:31-32 (TLV):

(31) Get rid of all bitterness and rage and anger and quarreling and slander, along with all malice.
(32) Instead, be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving each other just as God in Messiah also forgave you.​

 

[Kermos]

Ephesians 4:31-32 (TLV):
(31) Get rid of all bitterness and rage and anger and quarreling and slander, along with all malice.
(32) Instead, be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving each other just as God in Messiah also forgave you.

You are bitter against and rage against and anger against and quarrel against and slander with malice against the Word of God.

Your wicked heart treasure is revealed in your writings as illuminated by the next few post references.

Your mouth and fingertips reveal the treasure of your heart demoting Jesus to a mere man by way of your illegitimate linguistics (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #635 with post #636 in this thread) - you (1) YOU disassociate the act of the Holy Spirit of God in Luke 1:34-35, (2) YOU deny Jesus' equality with God makes Jesus God as witnessed by the Apostle John (John 5:18), and (3) YOU lie about the Apostle Thomas calling Jesus God because truthfully the Apostle John recorded that "Thomas answered and said to Him" with the Him being Jesus "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28)!

there's still more

You foolishly deny the context that Lord Jesus establishes the focus of "who God is" in the conversation recorded in John 8:31-5i at the outset (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #609 in this thread) - you quote the passage's conversation about "who God is" which contains a climactic conclusion then you proceeded to lie about the selfsame passage in your claim that the passage is not about "who God is".

there's still more

As a fool, you wickedly adulterate the multiple Apostle testimony that Jesus is God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1417 in this thread); in effect, you call the apostles liars, and you call Apostolic testimony deception.

there's still more

In your heart, John 1:1 reads "the Word was a god" resulting in Jesus being a separate god from YHWH God thus your "a god" is before YHWH God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1217 in this thread); therefore, YOU are in sin of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3), so you do not know Who Jesus is.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[keithr]

You are bitter against and rage against and anger against and quarrel against and slander with malice against the Word of God.

Your wicked heart treasure is revealed in your writings as illuminated by the next few post references.

I'm not going to dignify such disrespectful and insulting remarks with a response to your false accusations and misunderstanding of the quoted Bible verses.

 

[Kermos]

I'm not going to dignify such disrespectful and insulting remarks with a response to your false accusations and misunderstanding of the quoted Bible verses.

You can't respond with the Truth (John 14:6) in your current state.

Your wicked heart treasure is revealed in your writings as illuminated by the next few post references.

Your mouth and fingertips reveal the treasure of your heart demoting Jesus to a mere man by way of your illegitimate linguistics (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #635 with post #636 in this thread) - you (1) YOU disassociate the act of the Holy Spirit of God in Luke 1:34-35, (2) YOU deny Jesus' equality with God makes Jesus God as witnessed by the Apostle John (John 5:18), and (3) YOU lie about the Apostle Thomas calling Jesus God because truthfully the Apostle John recorded that "Thomas answered and said to Him" with the Him being Jesus "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28)!

there's still more

You foolishly deny the context that Lord Jesus establishes the focus of "who God is" in the conversation recorded in John 8:31-5i at the outset (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #609 in this thread) - you quote the passage's conversation about "who God is" which contains a climactic conclusion then you proceeded to lie about the selfsame passage in your claim that the passage is not about "who God is".

there's still more

As a fool, you wickedly adulterate the multiple Apostle testimony that Jesus is God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1417 in this thread); in effect, you call the apostles liars, and you call Apostolic testimony deception.

there's still more

In your heart, John 1:1 reads "the Word was a god" resulting in Jesus being a separate god from YHWH God thus your "a god" is before YHWH God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1217 in this thread); therefore, YOU are in sin of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3), so you do not know Who Jesus is.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[keithr]

You can't respond with the Truth (John 14:6) in your current state.

As a fool, you wickedly adulterate the multiple Apostle testimony that Jesus is God ...

... so you do not know Who Jesus is.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God ...

John 18:37 (WEB):

(37) ... For this reason I have been born, and for this reason I have come into the world, that I should testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.”​

John 17:3 (WEB):

(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​

John 10:36 (WEB):

(36) ... I said, ‘I am the Son of God?’​

John 20:17 (WEB):

(17) Jesus said to her, “... ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”​

 

[Kermos]

John 18:37 (WEB):
(37) ... For this reason I have been born, and for this reason I have come into the world, that I should testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.”

John 17:3 (WEB):
(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

John 10:36 (WEB):
(36) ... I said, ‘I am the Son of God?’

John 20:17 (WEB):
(17) Jesus said to her, “... ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Jesus speaks the lovely words, but you are trying to make Jesus less than God.

Jesus makes Himself equal to God (John 5:18) as soon as Jesus says "I am the Son of God" (John 10:36), and for Jesus to be equal with God is for Jesus to be YHWH God.

Do not forget, Jesus reveals Himself as truly God and truly Man at His discretion.

Jesus speaks as truly Man as recorded in John 18:37, John 17:3, and John 20:17.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Here is an instance of Jesus, truly God, saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of God thus including both the person of Jesus and the person of the Father in the One True God.

Here is another instance, this time of Jesus, truly Man, saying "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (John 20:17) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of Man thus including the person of Jesus and His brothers in one (John 17:21). See, the Son of Man being the firstborn of the born of God persons (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, John 3:3-8).

We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

We, born of the Holy Spirit of God persons (John 3:3-8), are one in God (John 17:21) because of the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), thus God is One. We are the blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God's work in us.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[keithr]

Jesus speaks the lovely words, but you are trying to make Jesus less than God.

I merely quoted the words of Jesus. Believe him, or don't. It's your choice.

Jesus makes Himself equal to God (John 5:18) as soon as Jesus says "I am the Son of God" (John 10:36), and for Jesus to be equal with God is for Jesus to be YHWH God.

The Jews thought that Jesus claiming to be God's Son (which he was) made him equal, as in similar, to God. They didn't think that it meant that he was God. Why would they? That's not what Jesus claimed - he simply referred to God as his Father (John 5:17). Saying "God is my Father" is completely different from saying "I am God" - Jesus never said that he was God. The Jews believed that God was their Father too - Isaiah 63:16, 64:8 (WEB):

(63:16) For you are our Father, though Abraham doesn’t know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us. You, Yahweh, are our Father.
(64:8) But now, Yahweh, you are our Father. We are the clay, and you our potter. We all are the work of your hand.​

Christians also claim that God is their Father, but that doesn't mean that they are claiming to be God. You might be reading the words but you are not taking notice of what they are saying. I might be equal to my brother, but that does not mean that I am my brother, so why would if Jesus claimed to be equal with God would you assume that meant he was God? That is just not logical. Apply common sense to your reading of the Bible!

Also note Philippians 2:5-8 (WEB):

(5) Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus,
(6) who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
(7) but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
(8) And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient [to God] to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross.​