Rich R
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Are trying to insinuate that a son can not be his own father? :)
A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians
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@Aunty Jane @Keiw and @Butch5
You exalt your unscriptural interpretation of Colossians 1:15, that Jesus Christ was "created" like angels by God as firstborn, above the proclamation of apostles, prophets, and the Word of God.
Here are some specific scriptural instances that prove your error:
Since Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28) - the Son of God, then Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate and Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.
"I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) includes that the person of Jesus and the person of the Father are the One True God.
Your writings are in opposition to the Truth (John 14:6).
Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH (Revelation 1:8).
You exalt your unscriptural interpretation of Colossians 1:15, that Jesus Christ was "created" like angels by God as firstborn, above the proclamation of apostles, prophets, and the Word of God.
Here are some specific scriptural instances that prove your error:
- Paul explained the firstborn in relation to the born of God persons (John 3:3-8) in this passage related to Colossians 1:15 "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers" (Romans 8:29).
- Jesus is the beginning of creation (Revelation 3:14) and the firstborn of creation in that:
- "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3), SO THE SON OF GOD, JESUS, BEGINS THE CREATION AND COMPLETES THE CREATION (REVELATION 3:14).
- "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15), SO THE SON OF MAN, JESUS, IS THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL THE BORN OF GOD PERSONS (JOHN 3:3-8).
- In Revelation 3:14 we find Christ referring to Himself in His capacity of truly God.
- In Colossians 1:15 we find Paul referring to Christ in His capacity of truly Man.
- Colossians 1:15 does not state that Jesus Christ was created.
- Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He is YHWH God for there is NO other (Isaiah 45:5).
Since Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28) - the Son of God, then Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate and Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.
"I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) includes that the person of Jesus and the person of the Father are the One True God.
Your writings are in opposition to the Truth (John 14:6).
Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH (Revelation 1:8).
Rich R
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John 17:21,
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
You're also one with God and Jesus, but you're still you.You're not God nor Jesus. Better find out exactly being "one" actually means. Maybe something along the lines of a well know figure of speech we all use and understand:
"The entire crowd acted as one..."
Surely the crowd was not literally one person. We all understand it means they were one in purpose and goals. Why could that not apply to John 10:30? That way it fits with 1 Corinthians 8:6 (and many other verses).
1 Cor 8:6,But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
Of course we could twist 1 Cor 8:6 to say that the Father is not the one God, that Jesus is also God, to make it fit with the John 10:30 supposedly saying Jesus is God. It's got to be one way or the other.
God bless
Keiw
Well-Known Member
I didnt lie. I check carefully into facts. Your translations are filled with errors. Peter would not contradict himself. Thats like you thinking God contradicted himself , his bible writers were inspired to write his words down.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
I shared the info of the bible that compared the Greek to the english side by side and has- a god in the last line because its fact.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Trinty god created at a council of catholicism= 100% fact. Their own encyclopedia says no trinity was served before the end of the 4th century. And the apostles knew nothing of a trinity--So you figure it out.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Keiw
Well-Known Member
It says--the kingdom will have no end. 1 Cor 15:24-28 shows Jesus kingship ends. YHWH takes back over as king after Rev 20.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
You miss the facts--God does not have a God, nor is he ever in subjection to any--So you need to relook.
This post starts with a prelude relevant to discussing the Epistles of Peter.
Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28) - the Son of God.
Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.
Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.
Here is an instance of Jesus truly God saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) includes that the person of Jesus and the person of the Father are the One True God.
We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly Man as well as His capacity as truly God. We can use context to make the distinction.
That concludes the prelude.
The Apostle Peter wrote "tou Theou" (Greek meaning "the God", but not represented precisely in the English) referring to Jesus when Peter wrote "Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).
The linguistics of Peter certainly attributes both "God" and "Savior" to Jesus.
"Righteousness" applies to "our God and Savior"; moreover, "our God and Savior" applies to "Jesus Christ".
The phrase "our God and Savior" is the same as "the God and Savior".
Peter could safely refer to Jesus as "the Son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16), "Savior", "Lord", "Son of Man", and "God". It depends on the capacity of Jesus to which Peter was addressing.
Peter wrote "our God and Savior, Jesus Christ" as part of a cohesive whole.
Peter can safely switch to referring to Jesus as Lord in 2 Peter 1:2.
Peter includes Jesus as being God in 2 Peter 1:2 - take a look at the Genitive- Masculine-Singular in Greek for "God", "Lord", "Jesus", and the definite articles ("the" not represented in English for both "God" and "Lord"), so because of this Genitive- Masculine-Singular among all these words, "the God" and "the Lord" apply to "Jesus" in 2 Peter 1:2!
Respecting 1 Peter 1:3, the Apostle applies God to the Father as well as identifies both the Father and the Son, but he does not write that Jesus is not God.
The above-mentioned principles apply to the various verses supplied by Rich R and keithr.
The Son of God is One with God the Father because the word of God says "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) this the person of the Father is God along with the person of Jesus being God - together in unity with the person of the Holy Spirit of God {YHWH is one eternal God, existing as three distinct and equal persons being Love (Genesis 1:26 [plurality], Isaiah 48:16 [all three mentioned], Romans 1:7 [Father], John 8:58 [Son, referring back to Exodus 3:14], John 15:26 [Spirit], 1 John 4:8 [Love])}.
I included both of your posts because they are highly related with similar content.
Scripture must be taken with scripture, and my next post to you must be taken with these passages.
Rich R
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Well you made a lot of good points, but too many to address all at once. Let's try one at a time.
John 20:28,
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Maybe this could be taken as saying Jesus is God. Let's investigate. Here's Strong's definition of "god:"
a god or deity. a supernatural, powerful entity (real or imagined).
Notice it does not say, "the" God or "the" supernatural, powerful entity. That's because, to the Ancient Near Eastern man (that's who got the scriptures, not Bill Gates last year in LA), the word "god" basically meant anyone with power and authority, including various men. So Jesus could be called a god. He of course was given that power and authority by God (John 5:26-27 - someone gave God His Power and authority? Interesting proposition to say the least).
So John 20:28 doesn't really say unequivocally that Jesus is God, specifically Yahweh, the name of that one true God. But let's say that it does mean that. What then do we do with the many verses that declare Jesus had the same God and Father as ourselves (about 10 or so)? Here's one:
John 20:17,
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.
That sure seems to say Jesus has a God and a Father, specifically the same one as we have. That being the case, how can John 20:17 and John 20:28 fit together? One says "yea" and the other "nay." Which is it?
I showed how I believe John 20:28 doesn't necessarily say Jesus is God which would agree with 20:17. At least I tried. Perhaps now you could tell me why you think John 20:17 says that Jesus is God so as to make it agree with 20:28. If so, who is the God and Father of God?
I've asked the same question to countless Trinitarians over the years and have yet to get a clear answer. Maybe you could break the streak.
To be clear, I love all born again Christians, Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian alike. I'm not committing any brother or sister to eternal death. I can't wait to see all of them in the new earth that's coming...hopefully today! But I'll wait as long as it takes. :)
God bless.
@Rich R and @keithr
Truly, Lord Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).
Jesus says I AM, and He did not say "I was created".
So, one week before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM ring true.
And, two weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM resound true.
And, three weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM are true.
And, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created Jesus' words of I AM trumpet true.
And, the week prior to any of the angels being created Jesus' words of I AM harmonize truthfully.
No matter when in time one seeks before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of I AM remain absolutely true.
Going back in time, Jesus is always I AM, never created, He is always I AM.
Going back in time, anytime in all eternity because Jesus says "before Abraham" with no exceptions, Jesus Being.
Behold, Going back in time, Jesus Being.
JESUS IS EVERLASTING going back in time.
Jesus says "I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20).
The angel Gabriel declared to Mary about Jesus "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).
Behold, Going forward in time, Jesus Being.
JESUS IS EVERLASTING going forward in time.
GOD is exclusively the One that IS EVERLASTING going back in time and going forward in time.
God is everlasting.
Jesus is everlasting.
No one except God is everlasting.
Everlasting YHWH God is Lord Jesus Christ for He declares "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8, see also Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:13), thus says He Who is coming on the clouds!
"I am YHWH, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).
"Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me" (Isaiah 43:10).
Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28) - the Son of God.
All people that think Jesus Christ was created hold to news that is not the Good News (Gospel) of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:6-7), so such people have no gospel at all.
Truly, Lord Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).
Jesus says I AM, and He did not say "I was created".
So, one week before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM ring true.
And, two weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM resound true.
And, three weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM are true.
And, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created Jesus' words of I AM trumpet true.
And, the week prior to any of the angels being created Jesus' words of I AM harmonize truthfully.
No matter when in time one seeks before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of I AM remain absolutely true.
Going back in time, Jesus is always I AM, never created, He is always I AM.
Going back in time, anytime in all eternity because Jesus says "before Abraham" with no exceptions, Jesus Being.
Behold, Going back in time, Jesus Being.
JESUS IS EVERLASTING going back in time.
Jesus says "I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20).
The angel Gabriel declared to Mary about Jesus "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).
Behold, Going forward in time, Jesus Being.
JESUS IS EVERLASTING going forward in time.
GOD is exclusively the One that IS EVERLASTING going back in time and going forward in time.
God is everlasting.
Jesus is everlasting.
No one except God is everlasting.
Everlasting YHWH God is Lord Jesus Christ for He declares "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8, see also Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:13), thus says He Who is coming on the clouds!
"I am YHWH, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).
"Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me" (Isaiah 43:10).
Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28) - the Son of God.
All people that think Jesus Christ was created hold to news that is not the Good News (Gospel) of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:6-7), so such people have no gospel at all.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Jhn 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Jhn 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
We can't see the Father, because our carnal eyes are still glued to the flesh body of Jesus.
The Spirit within the man Jesus, is The Spirit of God sent to earth to declare himself through the body of flesh, named Emanuel,
meaning God with Us.
He walked among us, as he walked with Adam and Eve in the garden.
What did God look like when Adam heard his voice in the cool of the day?
If no man hath heard "his" voice, "speaking of the Father" , then who's voice did Adam hear walking in the garden?
Who's voice did Moses hear? Who's voice did the prophets hear?
My sheep hear my voice...
Jhn 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Jhn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Jhn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
What is the Father's name?
Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be "WHAT NAME" ?
Break it down:
Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
What is the mind of Christ Jesus?
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
One God, the Father.. and we IN him, One Lord Jesus Christ and we BY him.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Are we IN God the Father or are we IN Christ Jesus?
Can we be IN both at the same time?
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself.
I and my Father are One.
So here is another question...
The fact that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,
does this also in fact make Christ God?
In the beginning when God said...
Was it God speaking or Christ speaking?
Is Christ the spokesman of God?
Is Christ God's voice?
When the Lord spoke to the prophets, was it the Father or his Christ speaking?
If no man hath heard God's voice at any time, then it must have been Christ speaking.
Is God Christ?
If Christ means the anointed one, then Did God anoint himself?
Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
2Co 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
continued...
Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Jhn 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Jhn 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
We can't see the Father, because our carnal eyes are still glued to the flesh body of Jesus.
The Spirit within the man Jesus, is The Spirit of God sent to earth to declare himself through the body of flesh, named Emanuel,
meaning God with Us.
He walked among us, as he walked with Adam and Eve in the garden.
What did God look like when Adam heard his voice in the cool of the day?
If no man hath heard "his" voice, "speaking of the Father" , then who's voice did Adam hear walking in the garden?
Who's voice did Moses hear? Who's voice did the prophets hear?
My sheep hear my voice...
Jhn 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Jhn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Jhn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
What is the Father's name?
Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be "WHAT NAME" ?
Break it down:
Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
What is the mind of Christ Jesus?
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
One God, the Father.. and we IN him, One Lord Jesus Christ and we BY him.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Are we IN God the Father or are we IN Christ Jesus?
Can we be IN both at the same time?
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself.
I and my Father are One.
So here is another question...
The fact that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,
does this also in fact make Christ God?
In the beginning when God said...
Was it God speaking or Christ speaking?
Is Christ the spokesman of God?
Is Christ God's voice?
When the Lord spoke to the prophets, was it the Father or his Christ speaking?
If no man hath heard God's voice at any time, then it must have been Christ speaking.
Is God Christ?
If Christ means the anointed one, then Did God anoint himself?
Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
2Co 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
continued...
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I have questions..
I have lots of questions.
Jesus said he did not come to judge...
Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jhn 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Back to the beginning...
Is the Word of the Lord, God the Father?
Who created the heavens and the earth? In the beginning, God Said...
Is this God's Word?
And if this is God's Word, then what is higher than this?
What is more powerful or what has more authority than God's Word?
God's Word is his promise, his truth, his law..
But is God's Word, God?
And if Jesus is the Word of God made flesh and dwelt among us, is this indeed God walking among mankind?
I look at it like this:
God the Father, who is the Potter, took some dust from the earth, which is Mary, and formed a vessel which he called Jesus,
and poured himself, ie: His spirit, His Word, His Truth, His works, everything the Father is, he poured into this vessel he called Jesus.
This Jesus is a physical earthy being. The Body is not God for God is Spirit. But the body made in his own image, God calls his son.
Because that which is in this clay vessel is an exact replica of himself, the Father.
I and my Father are one.
I've wrestled with this a long time. I understand both sides of the argument.
I'm not here to argue.
I'm just sharing why I believe that Jesus is God in the flesh.
You just have to weigh the evidence and find the balance.
God in the flesh did not come to judge but to save.
God in the spirit will come and judge us by the Word that was spoken through his son, which was God in the flesh.
Whether you want to say you will see God face to face or Jesus face to face, it is one and the same.
Just sharing
Hugs
I have lots of questions.
Jesus said he did not come to judge...
Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jhn 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Back to the beginning...
Is the Word of the Lord, God the Father?
Who created the heavens and the earth? In the beginning, God Said...
Is this God's Word?
And if this is God's Word, then what is higher than this?
What is more powerful or what has more authority than God's Word?
God's Word is his promise, his truth, his law..
But is God's Word, God?
And if Jesus is the Word of God made flesh and dwelt among us, is this indeed God walking among mankind?
I look at it like this:
God the Father, who is the Potter, took some dust from the earth, which is Mary, and formed a vessel which he called Jesus,
and poured himself, ie: His spirit, His Word, His Truth, His works, everything the Father is, he poured into this vessel he called Jesus.
This Jesus is a physical earthy being. The Body is not God for God is Spirit. But the body made in his own image, God calls his son.
Because that which is in this clay vessel is an exact replica of himself, the Father.
I and my Father are one.
I've wrestled with this a long time. I understand both sides of the argument.
I'm not here to argue.
I'm just sharing why I believe that Jesus is God in the flesh.
You just have to weigh the evidence and find the balance.
God in the flesh did not come to judge but to save.
God in the spirit will come and judge us by the Word that was spoken through his son, which was God in the flesh.
Whether you want to say you will see God face to face or Jesus face to face, it is one and the same.
Just sharing
Hugs
You most certainly LIED because you contradict accurate scripture by your claim that nowhere in the NT is "the God" used in reference to Jesus, yet 2 Peter 1:1 contains "the God", "tou Theou" (Greek meaning "the God", but not represented precisely in the English), referring to Jesus when Peter wrote "Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).
LINK TO GREEK/ENGLISH INTERLINEAR
2 Peter 1:1 Interlinear: Simeon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who did obtain a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:
There is PROOF that you LIED, so your thoughts are corrupt.
LINK TO GREEK/ENGLISH INTERLINEAR FOR JOHN 1:1
John 1:1 Interlinear: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
The word "Theos" (God), the fourth word from the end of the verse is called an
Anarthrous noun.
- An anarthrous theos (θεος) can actually refer to God.
- Articled theos (ο θεος) does not always refer to God.
- θεος in John 1:1c is qualitative, not indefinite.
From: John 1:1 Anarthrous Theos: The Big Lie of the NWT - Christian Topics
John's writing indicates that Jesus is God.
You have two gods because you claim Jesus is another god.
Your thoughts reject the Truth (John 14:6).
Your unscriptural assertion denies the Word of God.
Here are some specific scriptural instances that prove your error:
- Paul explained the firstborn in relation to the born of God persons (John 3:3-8) in this passage related to Colossians 1:15 "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers" (Romans 8:29).
- Jesus is the beginning of creation (Revelation 3:14) and the firstborn of creation in that:
- "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3), SO THE SON OF GOD, JESUS, BEGINS THE CREATION AND COMPLETES THE CREATION (REVELATION 3:14).
- "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15), SO THE SON OF MAN, JESUS, IS THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL THE BORN OF GOD PERSONS (JOHN 3:3-8).
- In Revelation 3:14 we find Christ referring to Himself in His capacity of truly God.
- In Colossians 1:15 we find Paul referring to Christ in His capacity of truly Man.
- Colossians 1:15 does not state that Jesus Christ was created.
- Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He is YHWH God for there is NO other (Isaiah 45:5).
"Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Genesis 1:26)
The "Our image" and the "Our likeness" show that the "Us" is the One True God, YHWH, being the person of God the Father and the person of the Word of God and the person of Holy Spirit of God. These persons comprise the "Us".
"He will reign over the house of Jacob forever" (Luke 1:33).
Jesus' kingship is FOREVER.
You engage in deception again!
Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28) - the Son of God.
Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.
Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.
Here is an instance of Jesus truly God saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) includes that the person of Jesus and the person of the Father are the One True God.
We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly Man as well as His capacity as truly God. We can use context to make the distinction.
The Son of Man has a God.
The Word of God is God.
The Word of God is Jesus (John 1:14).
You are deceived to think Jesus is not YHWH God.
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