A Day Begins At Sunrise

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zeke25

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May 18, 2014
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This topic has been started to fully and properly answer a question/comment made by a person in the topic "Between the Evenings". Exception was taken to a sunrise day start. A short simple answer will never do justice to that which the Bible teaches - and the Bible teaches that a day begins at sunrise.

A Day Begins At Sunrise


Proverbs 25:2 KJV, "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."

1.a. Genesis 1:5 KJV, "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." Genesis 1:5 TIB, "And God called the light, Day, And He called the darkness, Night. And there was evening, and there was morning the first day." A common sense reading of this Scripture dictates that a day ends and a day begins at sunrise. The events of each day are given to us chronologically. First, the creation activity is described to us. Second, we are told that evening has arrived. The word evening is a time marker. It tells us that sundown has now occurred. Third, we are told that morning has arrived. Morning is a time marker as well. It tells us that sunrise has occurred. Fourth, we are told that the first day has been completed because sunrise has occurred. This chronological pattern is given for the first six days of creation throughout Genesis chapter one.

1.b. For the sake of those who have falsely been taught and believed that a day begins at sundown, let us look at this Scripture one more time.

(1) First, we are given the creation activity that God performed on the first day, ending in verse 5. "And God called the light, Day, And He called the darkness, Night." Please notice that the day is not over yet just because the creation activity has ceased. Why do we know this? We know this because we are not told that the day is over yet.

(2) Second, we are given what chronologically follows that creation activity. We are given the fact that sundown (the 2nd even of the day) has arrived. "And there was evening[.]" Please notice that the day is not over yet just because sundown has occurred. Why do we know this? We know this because we are not told that the day is over yet.

(3) Third, we are given the next piece of information about this first day in chronological order. "[A]nd there was morning[.]" Is the day finally over since sunrise has occurred? We do not know until we read the next three words.

(4) Fourth, we are given the conclusion of the matter for day one. "[T]he first day." Please notice that the day is now over. Why do we know this? We know this because we are told that the day is over, we are told that day one is over.

A recap in chronological order.

1. "And God called the light, Day, And He called the darkness, Night."

2. "And there was evening[.]"

3. "[A]nd there was morning[.]"

4. "[T]he first day."

Day two now starts, because the first day is over and it is light again.

It cannot be made any simpler.

1.c. As hard as it is to imagine, Genesis chapter one is the first and primary evidence that those who believe a day begins at sundown use. Yet, the reverse is true. Genesis chapter one is the first and primary evidence that a day begins at sunrise.

1.d. A day has several different meanings in Scripture. It must be determined from the context which meaning applies. Here are some of your choices: The daylight time of the day only; the night time of the day; both the daylight and night hours of a day; and a period of time that may be more than a single day.

1.e. Here is an example of the night time hours of a day. Proverbs 7:9 KJV, "in the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night[.]" This Scripture is filled with time markers: "In the twilight" means after sundown; "in the evening" means in the afternoon or it can mean at sundown; and "in the black and dark night" means after sundown. As translated, this Scripture contradicts itself. Two time markers indicate that it is after sunset, and one time marker indicates that it is at sunset or sooner.

"Evening" is translated from the Hebrew word "yowm" (Strong's H3117 yowm). Now the translators have given a totally false translation. "Yowm" means day. "Ereb" means evening, (Strong's H6153 ereb). The translation I checked left out "ereb" and incorrectly translated "yowm" into “evening". Possibly some might say the translators left out "yowm" and translated "ereb" correctly. Either way, the translators left out a vital word in their translation. Taken together, these two words "yowm" and "ereb", mean "the time of day after sundown" or "the night time of the day”.

I checked about fifty translations and only two of them translated this verse with any semblance of correctness. Here is John Wycliffe’s translation of 1380. Proverbs 7:9 WYC “n dark time, when the day draweth to night, in the darkness and mist in the night.” In the original wording we have Proverbs 7:9 WYC “[G]oith niy the weie of hir hous in derk tyme, whanne the dai drawith to niyt, in the derknessis and myst of the nyyt.

Let us compare my two suggestions along side of Wycliffe’s translation. We will focus only on the part of the verse that has been translated incorrectly by all the other versions.

the time of day after sundown

the night time of the day

when the day draweth to night

whanne the dai drawith to niyt.

1.f. What changed between Wycliffe’s translation in 1380 and the next translations available to us in 1525 with William Tyndale, Myles Coverdale in 1535, Thomas Matthew in 1537, the Great Bible in 1539, the Geneva Bible in 1560, Bishops’ Bible in 1568, and the King James Bible in 1611? Why was the knowledge of the night time of the day lost to these subsequent translations? Why was the knowledge that the Hebrew word “ereb”, which meant “even or evening”, which meant “afternoon” or “sunset” lost? This lack of knowledge affects every other verse in the entire Bible in which the word “ereb” is used. It literally changes the times as prophesied in Daniel 7:25 KJV, “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

1.g. The Stone Edition Tanach also gave a valid translation for the part of Proverbs 7:9 that addresses the use of the Hebrew words of yowm and ereb together. I will underline that part. “n the twilight, as daylight wanes, in the blackness of night and darkness.” “Wanes” is not a word for word translation of “ereb”, because ereb means, in this context, sundown. However the phrase “as daylight wanes” certainly imparts the correct meaning. Yowm and ereb used together does mean that the daylight in waning because it refers to the “after sundown time of day”.

1.h. Please refer to our tract Proverbs 7;9 for a full exegesis of this verse.

2.a. After Genesis chapter one there are several more Scriptures that proponents of a sundown day start use to try and prove their point. A careful reading of each of these passages proves just the opposite. One cannot possibly deduce that a day begins at sundown with the Scriptural evidence available that it begins at sunrise. I can only conclude that a hidden agenda is behind the doctrine of a day beginning at sundown. Do not be impressed or swayed if someone shows you that the Midrash or the entire Talmud or some ancient document or engraved stone or a space alien (said with tongue in cheek) or some other extra Biblical source shows that a day begins at sundown. The Bible must be our authority. If you prefer another authority I can be of no help. The Bible is my authority. The Bible I can vouch for and live my life by. I cannot do that with other sources of information or authority. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV, " 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

2.b. The biblical phrase "between the evenings" and its proper meaning are used in this treatise. For a full understanding and teaching on this phrase from a biblical standpoint, please request our treatise titled Between The Evenings. Briefly for now, between the evenings refers to the first even/evening of a day which is noontime. The second even/evening is sundown. Between the evenings is, of course, between these two evenings. There is no afternoon in biblical time keeping, that period of the day is called evening or between the evenings. If a reference in made to afternoon it is because the text has been modernized to our current day concept of afternoon.

2.c. Another concept used in this teaching, unfamiliar to some, is the distinct difference between the single day of Passover which is followed by the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Do not make the mistake in thinking that Passover is one of the days of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. It is not. The single day of Passover is a separate celebration and feast distinct and different from the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. If you fail to make this distinction, then you will never understand the sequence of events. For a full explanation request our teaching titled Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

2.d. Now we will address the other verses which also prove that a day begins at sunrise.

3. Genesis 19:34 KJV, “And it came to pass on the morrow (Strong’s H4283 mochorath), that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight (Strong’s H570 emesh) with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.” The Hebrew word “mochorath” means morning, or more specifically a new day. Last night was another day, now on the morrow, it is a new day. The day did not begin at sundown the night before, it is beginning at sunrise. The Hebrew word “emesh” means last night or yesterday. These two Hebrew words together leave no doubt that last night was yesterday. Today, at sunrise, is a new day.

3.a. Exodus 12:6 TIB, "And it shall be for you to keep until the fourteenth day (Strong's H3117 yowm) of this month. And all the assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it between the evenings (Strong's H6153 ereb). "Exodus 12:8 KJV, "And they shall eat the flesh in that night (Strong's H3915 layelah), roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it." Exodus 12:14 KJV, "And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to [Yahowah] throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever." In verse 6, the instructions given require that the animal be sacrificed in the day time on Abib 14; specifically, between the evenings. In verse 8, they are told to eat the flesh that night, which is after sundown. In verse 14, they are reminded that this day is to be kept as a memorial and a feast; and this day means both the daylight hours and the night time hours that follow the daylight hours, until the sun rises and a new day starts.

3.b. This begs the question: Which day is to be kept as a feast? The day of Passover is first identified as the fourteenth. The Passover lamb was to be sacrificed on the fourteenth (verse 6) prior to sundown. But the feast was to be conducted after sundown, at night (verse 8). If a day begins at sunrise, then there is no problem, both the day and the night that follows are the fourteenth. But if a day begins at sundown (and it does not), then the sacrifice occurs on the fourteenth and the feast occurs on the fifteenth. How can verse 14 be correct - "And this day…keep it a feast" - if the feast is not on Abib 14?

3.c. There can be no Passover feast without a Passover sacrifice. Thus, the instructions in verse 14 to keep this day as a memorial, must mean the day of Passover. It does not mean the days of Passover, as if there are two separate days: one for the sacrifice and the second for the feast. It means that there is only one day and only one Passover. Yes, the Passover comes in two parts, but both parts must occur on the same day because verse 14 says "this day shall be unto you for a memorial".

4.a. The same logic and counting of time occurs in the instructions given for the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Beginning in Exodus 12:17 KJV, "And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever." Notice that is says, "this selfsame day have I brought your armies out…therefore shall ye observe this day". If you have been following Exodus 12 as we read about the Passover, followed by the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, you will know that the first day of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread begins at sunrise on Abib 15 and continues until the following sunrise.

4.b. Next, we look at Numbers 33:3 KJV, "And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians." Here again it is Abib 15, on the morrow after Passover. It is the morning, a new day, after Passover. Once again, Passover is not spoken of in two separate parts, it is spoken of as one complete holy day, sacrifice and feast, having occurred yesterday on Abib 14. The sacrifice occurs prior to sundown and the feast occurs after sundown - both are on Abib 14.

4.c. For a complete picture we must also look at Exodus 12:42 KJV, "It is a night to be much observed unto [Yahowah] for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of [Yahowah] to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations." And Deuteronomy 16:1 KJV, "Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto [Yahowah] thy God: for in the month of Abib [Yahowah] thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night." Numbers 33:3 above says that they departed on the day of Abib 15, and now in Exodus 12:42 and Deuteronomy 16:1 we have additional information. This information shows that they departed after sundown on Abib 15, after the daylight hours had transpired. This means the Hebrews spoiled the Egyptians during the day of Abib 15. Plus, they finished their packing and loading and lining up to prepare for their march. It may have been upwards to a million people that were leaving. It can easily be properly estimated that this took all of the daylight hours and they did not actually begin to march out until the night hours had begun; or some began departing in the daylight hours, but the vast majority that followed did not start walking out until the sun had set. It is kind of like being in a long line of cars at a traffic light. When the light turns green, the front cars start moving. If you are car number 10 or 20, it takes a while before you can move your wheels forward. If you were car number 1,000,000, how long do you think it would be before you started moving?

4.d. Do not make the mistake of thinking that Exodus 12:42 and Deuteronomy 16:1 above mean that the Hebrews departed Egypt on the night in which they ate their Passover meal. This is impossible. They departed the following night. Numbers 33:3 above says they departed on Abib 15, the morrow (or morning after) Passover. The only legitimate conclusion is that the day of Abib 15 was followed by the night of Abib 15. In other words, a day begins at sunrise, and continues beyond sunset to the following sunrise.

4.e. In spite of this evidence, some might say, "If they left at night, then that means they left after eating the Passover meal and before sunrise. And since they left on Abib 15, then Abib 15 must have started at sundown after the Passover sacrifice and prior to the Passover meal." Here is yet another Scripture that shows this is impossible. God ordered the Hebrews not to leave their houses after Passover, until the next morning. They would not violate God's command. Besides, I am quite sure the Hebrews were in great fear that night and dared not leave their homes under penalty of death. Exodus 12:22 KJV, "And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning."

5.a. While we are so close to Exodus 12:18-19, we must address them in conjunction with Leviticus 23:6. These verses perhaps make the strongest case of all for a sunrise day start. If one wants to insist on a sundown day start, they will first have to take a pair of scissors and cut these three verses out of the Bible.

5.b. Exodus 12:18-19 KJV, "18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. 19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land." In verse 18, the word even (Strong's 6153 ereb) is used twice. This usage of even means sundown. (See our teaching named "Between the Evenings). Let us analyze the days that are spoken of here from the perspective of one who falsely believes that a day begins at sundown. From even (the sundown that supposedly begins the 14th) on the 14th until even (the sundown that supposedly ends the 21st) on the 21st is an eight day period. But verse 19 says that no leaven is to be used for 7 days.

(1) Day 1 (of eating unleavened bread), Abib 14, is passover. A sundown day start person would say that passover, Abib 14, begins at sundown and Abib 14 ends the following sundown.

(2) Day 2 (of eating unleavened bread), Abib 15, is the first day of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. A sundown day start person would say that Abib 15 begins at sundown (instantly after Abib 14 ends) and continues until the next sundown.

(3) Day 3, Abib 16, goes from sundown to sundown.

(4) Day 4, Abib 17, goes from sundown to sundown.

(5) Day 5, Abib 18, goes from sundown to sundown.

(6) Day 6, Abib 19, goes from sundown to sundown.

(7) Day 7 (of eating unleavened bread), Abib 20, goes from sundown to sundown.

According to verse 19, these seven days count as seven days of not eating leavened bread. But what about Day 8.

(8) Day 8 (of eating unleavened bread), Abib 21, goes from sundown to sundown. This is the seventh day of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Why are we told that the requirement is seven days of eating unleavened bread, when the requirement is eight days of eating unleavened bread?

5.c. Leviticus 23:6 KJV, "And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto [Yahowah]: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread." This Scripture points out that the Feast of Unleavened Bread is seven days beginning with Abib 15 and continuing through Abib 21. And this is after passover which began the day before on Abib 14, which is an eighth day with unleavened bread requirements. So, once again, why the strange wording and a missing day in Exodus 12:18-19?

5.d. If one counts these days with the false notion of a day start at sundown, then the count will never work, as has been demonstrated above in this paragraph. But if one counts the days correctly with a day start of sunrise, there is no problem.

(1) Day 1, Abib 14, is passover. This day begins at sunrise. There is no requirement to eat unleavened bread during the daylight hours of passover. The lamb is sacrificed between the evenings, prior to sundown. The roasting of the lamb is then begun. Beginning at sundown and anytime afterwards, the feasting on the passover lamb can begin. No leavened bread is allowed to be eaten. Therefore in the count of eight days (Exodus 12:18), the count begins at sundown on Abib 14 (after the daylight hours of the 14th have passed) and continues until sundown on Abib 15 (which again is after the daylight hours of the 15th have passed).

(2) Day 2, Abib 15, is the first day of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. This day began at sunrise and continues until the next sunrise. However, beginning at sundown the count of day 2 of not eating leavened bread begins and continues until sundown on Abib 16.

(3) Day 3, Abib 16, begins at sunrise and continues to the next sunrise. The count of day 3 of unleavened bread begins at sundown on Abib 16 and continues until the next sundown which is in the middle of Abib 17.

(4) Day 4, Abib 17, is sunrise to sunrise. The count of day 4 of unleavened bread begins at sundown on Abib 17 and goes to the next sundown which is in the middle of Abib 18.

(5) Day 5, Abib 18, is sunrise to sunrise. The count of day 5 of unleavened bread begins at sundown on Abib 18 and goes to the next sundown which is in the middle of Abib 19.

(6) Day 6, Abib 19, is sunrise to sunrise. The count of day 6 of unleavened bread begins at sundown on Abib 19 and goes to the next sundown which is in the middle of Abib 20.

(7) Day 7, Abib 20, is sunrise to sunrise. The count of day 7 of unleavened bread begins at sundown on Abib 20 and goes to the next sundown which is in the middle of Abib 21.

(8) Day 8, Abib 21, is sunrise to the following sunrise. The count of day 7 of unleavened bread is still continuing from sundown Abib 20 through sunrise of Abib 21 until sundown of Abib 21. When sundown arrives on Abib 21 (which is the eighth day) the 7 days of unleavened bread count finishes. After sundown on Abib 21 for the remainder of Abib 21 (which is until the following sunrise) the requirement to eat unleavened bread has ended.

This lengthy explanation has been given for those who will with incredulity refuse to believe the obvious.

6. Exodus 16:23 KJV, "And he said unto them, This is that which [Yahowah] hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto [Yahowah]: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." You will notice that this verse says that tomorrow is the sabbath. And you should also notice that the word morrow has always been used to describe the next morning. There is nothing that lets one consider that the morrow somehow begins at sundown the day before. Then this verse very specifically repeats that they are to save the leftover manna until the morning, which is the beginning of day seven of the week. In other words, day seven begins in the morning, not the night before.

This is true for all seven days of that week, the week they first were provided with manna. Every morning, not every evening, a new day started and it was counted as such. Every morning, at the start of each new day, they were instructed to go out and gather manna.

7. Leviticus 8:35 KJV, "Therefore shall ye abide at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation day and night seven days, and keep the charge of [Yahowah], that ye die not: for so I am commanded." If a day begins at sunset, then why does not this Scripture say night and day, instead of day and night? It says day and night because the day comes first followed by the night, until seven days and nights are complete.

8.a. Leviticus 23:27 KJV, "Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto [Yahowah]." The tenth day of the seventh month begins at sunrise and ends the following sunrise. This Day of Atonement, this annual sabbath, is mentioned in several places with similar instructions.

8.b. Only in Leviticus 23 are additional instructions added that further describe when this sabbath is supposed to begin and end. Leviticus 23:32 KJV, "It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath." The Day of Atonement is the only sabbath that these additional instructions apply to. Leviticus 23:32 does not apply to other sabbaths or special days. In other words, God has specified that the Day of Atonement is to begin on the ninth day (at sundown after the daylight hours of the 9th have ended) of the seventh month, He does not want the Hebrews to wait until the tenth day (at sunrise) to begin this sabbath. The Hebrews are to begin this sabbath twelve hours early, at even (in this case the second even or sunset) on the ninth and continue it until sunset or the second even on the tenth. Perhaps Yahowah wanted this sabbath to be celebrated from sundown to sundown because that is a much easier fast than from sunrise to sunrise. These Scriptures in Leviticus help to clarify the beginning and ending of a day, perhaps even more than other Scriptures. If the tenth of the month began at sunset there would have been no need to give these additional instructions; and there would have definitely been no need to mention the ninth of the month, because the ninth would have been irrelevant.

8.c. Let us take a more detailed look at Leviticus 23:27,32.

There can only be one sunrise and one sunset per day. For simplicity’s sake, let us assume that all sunrises occur at 6 AM and all sunsets occur at 6 PM.

For those who practice a midnight day start, here are the sunrises and sunsets:
(Unfortunately, the graphs here did not copy and paste. I will try to reconstruct them here in this blog).


Abib 13 Abib 14 Abib 15

Day start 12 AM Day start 12 AM Day start 12 AM

Sunrise 6 AM Sunrise 6 AM Sunrise 6 AM

Last minute of the day is 11:59 PM Last minute of the day is 11:59 PM Last minute of the day is 11:59 PM



For those who practice a sunrise day start, here are the sunrises and sunsets:


Abib 13 Abib 14 Abib 15

Day start is sunrise 6 AM Day start is sunrise 6 AM Day start is sunrise 6 AM

Sunset at 6 PM Sunset 6 PM Sunset 6 PM

Last minute of the day is 5:59 AM Last minute of the day is 5:59 AM Last minute of the day is 5:59 AM




For those who practice a sunset day start, here are the sunrises and sunsets:


Abib 13 Abib 14 Abib 15

Day start is sunset 6 PM Day start is sunset 6 PM Day start is sunset 6 PM

Sunrise 6 AM Sunrise 6 AM Sunrise 6 AM

Last minute of the day is 5:59 PM Last minute of the day is 5:59 PM Last minute of the day is 5:59 PM





Leviticus 23:27,32 proves that a day start is sunrise. We will plot the instructions for when the Day of Atonement begins and ends, first for those who falsely believe that a day start is sundown and second for a sunrise day start.

For those who falsely believe a day begins at sundown:


Ethanim 8 Ethanim 9 Ethanim 10

Day start is sunset 6 PM Day start is sunset 6 PM Day start is sunset 6 PM

Sunrise 6 AM Sunrise 6 AM

Last minute of the day is 5:59 PM Last minute of the day 5:59 PM





For those who practice a sundown day start, the Day of Atonement begins in the column marked Ethanim 9 at 6 PM and ends in the column marked Ethanim 10 at 6 PM. In other words, the Day of Atonement is not on Ethanim 10 as Leviticus 23:27 instructs, it is now on Ethanim 9. Those who practice a sundown day start have made these two Scriptures conflict with one another. And, they have moved the Day of Atonement from Ethanim 10 to Ethanim 9. Sundown day starters have done that which we are commanded not to do - they have altered the Scriptures.

For those who correctly practice a sunrise day start, there is no contradiction, nor altering of the Scriptures.

Ethanim 8 Ethanim 9 Ethanim 10

Day start is sunrise 6 AM Day start is sunrise 6 AM Day start is sunrise 6 AM

Sunset at 6 PM Sunset 6 PM Sunset 6 PM

Last minute of the day is 5:59 AM Last minute of the day is 5:59 AM Last minute of the day is 5:59 AM




For those who practice a sunrise day start, the Day of Atonement begins in the column marked Ethanim 9 at 6 PM and ends in the column marked Ethanim 10 at 6 PM - from “even unto even”, Leviticus 23:32.

9. Second Chronicles 35:14 KJV, "And afterward they made ready for themselves, and for the priests: because the priests the sons of Aaron were busied in offering of burnt offerings and the fat until night (Strong's H3915 layelah); therefore the Levites prepared for themselves, and for the priests the sons of Aaron." It is best to read the thirty-fifth chapter through verse nineteen, in order to understand this is the story of King Josiah of Judah and the Passover celebration that was kept during his reign, circa 649-609 BC. As the story unfolds, it is obvious that the slaying and roasting of the animals is occurring during the daylight hours of Abib 14, and according to verse 14, this continued until nightfall. Only after sundown, did the Passover feast or meal begin: "therefore the Levites prepared for themselves, and for the priests." This Passover celebrated in King Josiah's time is repeated as it was in Exodus 12. The animals were slain in the daytime; this is the Passover sacrifice. The cooking of the meat was then begun. Then, after sundown, the Passover Feast, the actual eating of the cooked meat, begins. There is no mention in Exodus 12, nor here in Second Chronicles 35, nor in any other place in the Bible, that a new day has begun and now the Passover Feast was occurring on Abib 15, rather than on Abib 14. In other words, once again, the fact that a day does not end or begin at sunset is reinforced.

10. Matthew 27:57-58 KJV, "57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was [Yahoshua's] disciple. 58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of [Yahoshua]. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered." This is the story of Joseph of Arimathea who took Yahoshua off the stake and placed His body into a tomb. Matthew 27:57 comes after the death of Christ, which was between the two evenings, or approximately two to three PM modern time. Since this Scripture states that "when the even was come", that means the second even of the day had come. This is determined by the context. We know that the first even occurred at noon, therefore "when the even was come" must mean sundown. Therefore, Joseph and Nicodemus retrieved Yahoshua's body after sunset on the day He was crucified. If a day began at sunset (and it does not), then the day after the crucifixion was now upon them - that is, Passover - and the Pharisees' goal had not been attained. John 19:31 KJV, "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away." If a day began at sunset (and it does not), the bodies would have had to have been removed prior to sunset, or the goal of the Pharisees would not have been satisfied. But their goal had been met, because the new day, Passover, would not begin until sunrise.

11.a. Matthew 28:1 KJV, "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre." Matthew 28:1 TIB, "After the sabbaths, at the dawning into the first of the sabbaths, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the grave." If a day began at sundown (which it does not), then why did the Marys wait until morning to come to the sepulcher? The sabbaths would have been over the night before at sunset. The Marys would have had up to thirty minutes of twilight after sunset to go to the grave site. Not only that, but the moon was full. The second sabbath was not only the weekly sabbath, but it was also an annual sabbath: it was the first day of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. This day is mid month and mid month is always a full moon on the Calendar of Scripture*. In others words, there was possibly adequate light available to those who wished to take advantage of it (unless there was heavy cloud cover).

*NOTE: The Calendar of Scripture is another teaching. In fact, it is the goal to be reached after the preliminaries (such as when a day begins, what does between the evenings mean and what is a perfect/complete week mean) have been met.

11.b. The wording in Matthew 28:1 in both of these translations make it clear that the sabbath was ending because the day was dawning. The wording does not permit the sabbath to have ended the night before at sundown, and now the Marys were arriving approximately twelve hours later. Even the statement "at the dawning into the first of the sabbaths" shows that a day begins at sunrise. This first of the sabbaths, beginning at dawn, was the beginning of the count of the seven sabbaths to the Feast of Weeks. In other words, the beginning of the counting is shown to be starting at sunrise, not sundown the night before.

12. Mark 15:42-43 KJV, "42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of [Yahoshua]." Even had come, that is, the second even of the day. The sun had set. Yet, verse 42 states that it was still the preparation day before the sabbath. In this case, the sabbath being spoken of is the day of Passover: parallel passage above is Matthew 27:57-58. If a day begins at sunset (and it does not), how can it still be the day before the Passover sabbath, now that sunset has already occurred? If a day begins at sunset (and it does not), then the Passover sabbath was already upon them. But a day does not begin at sunset, it begins at sunrise.


13.a. Are you convinced yet that a day begins at sunrise? If not, here is one more proof. Acts 27:27,33 KJV, "27 But when the fourteenth night was come, as we were driven up and down in Adria, about midnight the shipmen deemed that they drew near to some country[.] 33 And while the day was coming on, Paul besought them all to take meat, saying, This day is the fourteenth day that ye have tarried and continued fasting, having taken nothing." Please notice that our time markers are the 14th night and the 14th day and the day was coming on. Verse 27 tells us that the 14th night is upon them. This means that the daylight hours of the 14th day are behind them. Verse 33 tells us that "the day was coming on". This means that they could see that sunrise was approaching for day 15 but the sun had not yet broken the eastern horizon, it was still the 14th day. Verse 33 also shows us that Paul is counting the number of days since they last ate. He says that it has been 14 days since they last ate.

13.b. Let us analyze what we have learned thus far. Paul states that this is the 14th day since they have not eaten. From the context of the sentence, it is reasonable to assume that Paul was using the word day in a 24 hour sense. If a day start was sundown (and it is not), then only 13 daylights had passed since the fast started. They were now in the 14th night and the 14th daylight period was still in front of them. This would mean that they had only fasted for about 13 ½ days at this point in time. If this were the case with these time markers we have been provided, then why would Paul state that it had been 14 days since they last ate, since he was using the word day in a 24 hour context? It would have been more natural for him to have said this is the 14th night in which they have not eaten. That way (with a sundown day start scenario) we would know that they had not eaten for 14 nights and 13 days. But Paul said that it had been 14 days since they last ate, using day in a 24 hour context. Therefore, it is more natural to assume that Paul meant they had not eaten for 14 days and 14 nights. But this would necessitate a sunrise day start.

13.c. This is not a mystery code - Biblical counting then was little different than today. Those who constantly confuse the issue have an agenda. They are going to make the Bible say that a day start is sundown even if God Himself stares them in the face and tells them they are wrong. Their god is a sundown day start and they will abuse the Scriptures to the max to serve their god.

13.d. But what about the full 14 days of not eating? Was Paul estimating or was he being precise? He was being precise. Fifteen days ago I am sure that they ate. Fifteen nights ago, I am sure they ate something sometime during that night; I am sure that they took sustenance prior to sleeping. This means that the following morning, after sunrise, the counting of the 14 days would begin. Have you ever fasted? If you have fasted for multiple days at a time, you will remember how acutely aware you were of when you last ate and how many days it has been since you last ate. It is constantly on your mind, because your stomach and lifelong habits of eating are constantly warring against your fast. You know the count.


14.a. The previous examples show that a Biblical day begins and ends at sunrise. There is no Biblical reference to indicate that the Hebrews understood or practiced any other type of time keeping well past the time that our Savior and Lord, Yahoshua the Christ, walked the earth. Some time after His departure and the present day, this knowledge was subverted and lost to common usage. To learn more about when this may have occurred please research Hillel II 320-385 AD and Moses Maimonides 1137-1204 AD. May our Heavenly Father bless you as you continue to study His word.

14.b. Why would some groups insist on a sundown start of a day contrary to Biblical evidence? I believe one reason is that it causes confusion. Put yourself into a society in the past or even a modern day group that practices a sundown day start. Let us say it is now 1 PM on Monday November 22. Your friend asks you, "When are we going to the movies?"

You answer, "Tonight at 7." This, of course, is after sundown.

Later, about 3 PM, your friend's brother asks, "What day are you two going to the movies?"

Would not your response be, "Today"? That would be a natural response.

And he says, "Oh, you mean today, during daylight hours? Why? There's too much you can do with the daylight, why not wait and go tomorrow?" (He really means today after sunset)?

You might reply, "We are going after dark."

And he says, "You said you were going today, after dark is Tuesday, why didn't you say tomorrow?"

You might reply, "If I said tomorrow you might have thought I meant Tuesday after sun up or Tuesday afternoon or even later than that such as Tuesday night."

And the brother says, "No, no, Tuesday night is tonight. Tomorrow night is Wednesday night after the day of Tuesday finishes."

Are you starting to get confused? I am. That is the whole point of this exchange. You can begin to talk in circles around one another trying to figure out which day is really being spoken of and when. This is what a sundown day start does. It causes confusion! Cults are already confused because they do not believe the Bible. They frequently use the Bible to try and prove a point, but when you respond with a Scripture that reveals their error, they abandon the Bible and start leaning on extra-biblical books or sources. They do it every time. So, perpetuating a confusing sundown day start is well within their comfort zone. After all, they are already living in confusion. Confusion is one weapon the enemy of our souls uses to keep us from the truth. Psalms 71:1 KJV "In thee, O [Yahowah], do I put my trust: let me never be put to confusion."

Rick
 

DPMartin

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Ok boy genius, then how is it that there was a sunrise when there was no sun in the first day of creation. The sun wasn’t made until the fourth day wasn’t it? Though in your little world it might have been. You weren’t there buddy, God was, and it goes as He said it did, and not according to what you think it ought to mean.

14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19: And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

It is true that It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter, but it is a fool who thinks he know because he thinks it. You disregard what the actual text says, and insist it means what you think. There was no sun shining any light on the surface of the earth in the first day of creation, the sun existed when God said He made it, not when you think it should have existed. Where do you get your reasoning from? It surly can’t be from what the Bible says.
 
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RANDOR

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Am I still saved? Sun rises, sun sets, evenings, actually I'm gettin sleepy :) As long as I still have my salvation when you guys get done with the sun and the moon....I'm ok with it.
 

DPMartin

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You’re right, there randor, but there is no sin in telling this guy the truth of the matter. You wonder why those who like to put their confidence in science have no confidence in the Christian view when this kind of interpretation of text prevails without contesting. K-sera-sera may work for you, but in the real world there are people that might want to know an honest answer to a question they may have, which is the opportunity to the average believer via the internet that isn’t one of the few that preach and or teach in the institutionalized religious organizations of Christianity.
 
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zeke25

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DPMartin said:
Ok boy genius, then how is it that there was a sunrise when there was no sun in the first day of creation. The sun wasn’t made until the fourth day wasn’t it? Though in your little world it might have been. You weren’t there buddy, God was, and it goes as He said it did, and not according to what you think it ought to mean.

14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19: And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

It is true that It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter, but it is a fool who thinks he know because he thinks it. You disregard what the actual text says, and insist it means what you think. There was no sun shining any light on the surface of the earth in the first day of creation, the sun existed when God said He made it, not when you think it should have existed. Where do you get your reasoning from? It surly can’t be from what the Bible says.
You conveniently left out the fact that no one said there was a sunrise on the first day of creation, but light was brought forth and then even (the end of the afternoon in our society) came. Did God take away His light at the time of sunset? I don’t know, maybe you have a good guess we can use. But you stop short when you only look at day 1 or day 4. Why not look at day 5 and 6, etc. The point is that God created day and night, light and darkness. And if one fails to understand that “even” in this context means the time of sunset, then they will misinterpret the information given to us. There are a lot of theories out there about when a day start is. This need not be so. The entire posting explains quite accurately, with Scriptures provided, that the Bible teaches a sunrise day start.

Besides, God does not need a sun to create light. And a time is coming again, when He will be the Light and there will be no need for the sun. He was hovering over the earth in the beginning and then He brought forth light. He is certainly an adequate substitute for the sun in Genesis just as He says that He will be in Revelation.

Genesis 1:2 KJV, “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Revelation 21:23 and 22:5. Verse 22:5 KJV, “And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

I did not disregard the text as you claim. So I fail to understand why you think I’m a fool just because you have been unable to discern what you have just read. Perhaps your position would be better served if you tried to argue from a Scriptural perspective instead of from an emotional one. After all, you ridicules are not Scriptural, they are contrary to God and the Bible. He calls us to reason, not to ridicule.

Isaiah 1:18 KJV, “Come now, and let us reason together, saith [Yahowah]: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Is it possible that giving up false notions of a sundown day start raises your emotions? Have you made a god out of this doctrine? Maybe you need an adjustment period to sort it all out. It took me years. Take your time. Then go to the Bible and get your doctrine from there only, as I do. Do not form your doctrine from the teachings of Rabbinical Judaism which didn’t even begin until well after the fall of the second temple (decades, possibly more than a century - it took root slowly). After the fall of the Temple, Temple worship and the Jewish religion practiced at that time was eliminated.

Besides, you have only voiced one objection, to one verse that you misunderstood. The treatise was much longer than that.

Rick
RANDOR said:
Am I still saved? Sun rises, sun sets, evenings, actually I'm gettin sleepy :) As long as I still have my salvation when you guys get done with the sun and the moon....I'm ok with it.
You salvation is a great blessing from God. But the Bible is big with many doctrines in it. God put those in the Bible to give you more blessings. Do you want more blessings? The answer to that is between you and God.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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The Jew observes the seventh day of the week as his Sabbath day

It begins Friday at sundown and ends Saturday at sundown

I would think they know better than anyone else
 

zeke25

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Arnie Manitoba said:
.
The Jew observes the seventh day of the week as his Sabbath day

It begins Friday at sundown and ends Saturday at sundown

I would think they know better than anyone else
When you say "The Jew" you mean present day Jews that are practicing Rabbinical Judaism. Rabbinical Judaism did not exist in all Biblical times. So, for the last 15 centuries or so, many of them probably did practice a sundown day start. But their current practice does not validate the Bible which began more than 1 ½ millennium ago. The Bible teaches that a day begins at sunrise. Unfortunately, the Rabbi's of today show more interest in their own musings than that which the Bible teaches. Imagine that, this tiger hasn't changed it's stripes since the days our Lord and Savior walked the earth as the Son of Man. And they followed their own musings long before that as well. It's best we stick with what the Bible teaches and not lean upon the Jews to help us out very much. Besides, the Jews do not own the day and the night - God does.
Rick
 

zeke25

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Arnie Manitoba said:
.

you must sacrifice the Passover in the evening, when the sun goes down,


Deuteronomy 16:6
Deuteronomy 16:6 KJV, “But at the place which [Yahowah] thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.

This verse does not instruct that the Passover sacrifice must be done after sunset. In fact, it is very specific to instruct that the sacrifice must occur prior to sunset. “acrifice the passover at even” means that one is sacrificing the passover during the even. Even in the Bible can mean noontime, sunset, any time between the two evens, or the entire time between the two evens. But we are given a second time marker in this verse so that we can know exactly which meaning needs to be applied. This second time marker is “at the going down of the sun”. When is the going down of the sun? As shown in the teaching “Between the Evenings” the sun begins to go down starting at noon time. At noon it stops rising and begins to descend. It descends for the rest of the evening (our modern day afternoon) until it disappears below the western horizon. So this verse very specifically tells us that the sacrifice is taking place in the evening (our modern day afternoon) while the sun is going down (and the sun is only going down between noon and sunset).
 

DPMartin

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zeke25
you lie
you just used the first day of creation that has no sunrise or sunset to prove your point:

 
"1.a. Genesis 1:5 KJV, "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." Genesis 1:5 TIB, "And God called the light, Day, And He called the darkness, Night. And there was evening, and there was morning the first day." A common sense reading of this Scripture dictates that a day ends and a day begins at sunrise. The events of each day are given to us chronologically. First, the creation activity is described to us. Second, we are told that evening has arrived. The word evening is a time marker. It tells us that sundown has now occurred. Third, we are told that morning has arrived. Morning is a time marker as well. It tells us that sunrise has occurred. Fourth, we are told that the first day has been completed because sunrise has occurred. This chronological pattern is given for the first six days of creation throughout Genesis chapter one."
Therefore its apparent you will say anything true or false to win your argument. So there is no sense in continuing this conversation.
 
 
 

zeke25

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DPMartin said:
zeke25
you lie
you just used the first day of creation that has no sunrise or sunset to prove your point:

 

Therefore its apparent you will say anything true or false to win your argument. So there is no sense in continuing this conversation.
 
 
DPMartin,

I haven’t lied about anything. Just because your understanding of the Scriptures has not yet reached its maximum potential does not make others liars.

Exodus 20:16 KJV, “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Perhaps you can tell me your thoughts regarding God creating light? Does God need a sun to create light? Can God simulate a sunset without the sun? My thoughts on this are of course He can and I already provided you the Scriptures in this thread in an earlier post.

Please read the posts a little more carefully. The first day does not say there was a sunrise. But on that day, sometime during that day, light was created.

And you continue to ignore that the first day is not my only presentation. The first six days are naturally inferred. But none of this changes the fact that at the end of light on the first day “evening” occurred. In this context, “evening” means the sundown time of the day. If there was no sun yet, that doesn’t mean that God was not already establishing when the sundown time of the day was going to be. Who was there to observe for three days that it wasn’t actually the sun causing the light? Therefore, why would anyone really give a rip?

Rick
 

zeke25

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Weber,

For your benefit, here is a thread that will explain what the phrase "And there was evening and there was morning the first day."

Zeke25
 

liafailrock

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Zeke25; I'm just curious what criteria you believe they used to start the month? If you already have a thread on that if you could point that out, please as I'm a little new here. Thanks.
 

zeke25

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liafailrock said:
Zeke25; I'm just curious what criteria you believe they used to start the month? If you already have a thread on that if you could point that out, please as I'm a little new here. Thanks.
liafailrock,

Every month on the Calendar of Scripture begins with the New Moon. No one uses the Calendar of Scripture except a lone ministry or two out there. And those that I know about have some serious errors in some of their doctrine. I keep my calendar based on Jerusalem time. I do not make a calendar for every time zone, I haven't the time.

I don't have a thread on that that I can remember. If I do, I doubt that I've posted the entire teaching, it is quite lengthy and several other teachings must come first to prepare one to understand the calendar. I'll look and see I I've posted a few paragraphs out of the calendar teaching. But if it is buried in another thread it will be too hard for me to find it.

zeke25
 

liafailrock

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zeke25 said:
liafailrock,

Every month on the Calendar of Scripture begins with the New Moon. No one uses the Calendar of Scripture except a lone ministry or two out there. And those that I know about have some serious errors in some of their doctrine. I keep my calendar based on Jerusalem time. I do not make a calendar for every time zone, I haven't the time.

I don't have a thread on that that I can remember. If I do, I doubt that I've posted the entire teaching, it is quite lengthy and several other teachings must come first to prepare one to understand the calendar. I'll look and see I I've posted a few paragraphs out of the calendar teaching. But if it is buried in another thread it will be too hard for me to find it.

zeke25
I acknowledge that the month starts at the sighted new moon in Israel. One has to watch for it, and this is what Jesus meant by the feast of trumpets "no man knows the day or hour". We know when it's at the door step, but nobody knows when the exact day is. The only problem is that since it's unknown until the moon is seen, then that implies the day starts when it's sighted, which is at sundown is when the moon is observed. Interestingly, when I read Genesis, I come up with the opposite of the straightforward reading you claim is there, i.e. there was evening (even if it's taken from late afternoon, it's near the time of sunset) and there was morning (the daylight time) all summed up to be a day. So the day, when I read it, is the latter half because darkness comes first, and then the daylight. Seems to follow scriptural pattern of darkess coming before the light.

You talk about understanding the calendar, but with all due respect, I am not seeing anything in your comments that demonstrates any deeper understanding as to how the astonomical bodies move. Why should I or anyone believe what you say or your interpretations? Just asking.
 
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zeke25

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liafailrock said:
I acknowledge that the month starts at the sighted new moon in Israel. One has to watch for it, and this is what Jesus meant by the feast of trumpets "no man knows the day or hour". We know when it's at the door step, but nobody knows when the exact day is. The only problem is that since it's unknown until the moon is seen, then that implies the day starts when it's sighted, which is at sundown is when the moon is observed. Interestingly, when I read Genesis, I come up with the opposite of the straightforward reading you claim is there, i.e. there was evening (even if it's taken from late afternoon, it's near the time of sunset) and there was morning (the daylight time) all summed up to be a day. So the day, when I read it, is the latter half because darkness comes first, and then the daylight. Seems to follow scriptural pattern of darkess coming before the light.

You talk about understanding the calendar, but with all due respect, I am not seeing anything in your comments that demonstrates any deeper understanding as to how the astonomical bodies move. Why should I or anyone believe what you say or your interpretations? Just asking.
liafailrock,

Where is the Scripture that says a new moon must be sighted? Where in Scripture does it describe the properties of a new moon?

As far as Genesis 1 is concerned, it is hard to break from a lifetime of erroneous teaching. Each day begins with creation activity. Each day ends with a sunset. Then that day continues until morning - sunrise. Only then is the day over and a new day starts.25

No need to argue with me however. Look at post #1, paragraph 8, especially the chart that explains Leviticus 23:27,32. Argue with the Scriptures. Then please explain why it is okay for sundown day starters to change the Day of Atonement from Ethanim 10 to Ethanim 9.

zeke
 

liafailrock

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zeke25 said:
liafailrock,

Where is the Scripture that says a new moon must be sighted? Where in Scripture does it describe the properties of a new moon?

As far as Genesis 1 is concerned, it is hard to break from a lifetime of erroneous teaching. Each day begins with creation activity. Each day ends with a sunset. Then that day continues until morning - sunrise. Only then is the day over and a new day starts.25

No need to argue with me however. Look at post #1, paragraph 8, especially the chart that explains Leviticus 23:27,32. Argue with the Scriptures. Then please explain why it is okay for sundown day starters to change the Day of Atonement from Ethanim 10 to Ethanim 9.

zeke
Nobody changed it from the tenth. It says to keep it from even to even. The even of the 9th (that's as the 9th day closes) to the even of the tenth i.e. the 10th day is closing. He did not say to keep it from morning until morning. To keep it from even until even (sundown) is quite clearly mentioned which is also equated to the tenth day so I don't know how that can be construed as morning until morning. Your argument in that paragraph is unconvincing and lacking proof. I don't like the word "perhaps" that you used to state a concrete point. No, he did not want them to prepare or celebrate it 12 hours early that you are trying to interject your own interpretation. A straightforward reading tells us that God is defining what the day is for the 10th: even until even.

Seems like Jesus kept days from the evening. After all, he died the even of the 14th and arose the even of the 17th as the firstfruits (Sunday) was dawning. That's 3 days and 3 nights. But it all started (i.e. the 3 days burial as in the sign of Jonah) on a night first.

As for the new moon, that's implied in the word rosh the head of the moon. Historically that's how it was done, and Christ did not argue or chastise them for their calendars. That's why he said no man knows the day or hour. That was an allusion to the feast of trumpets because nobody knew when the sighting of the moon was to take place whether that night or the next. This would not be a true statement with a calculated calendar if they did not view the moon. I fail to see the point of God even creating a moon if they don't use the moon visually (just as with the sun) for telling time. Genesis 1:14 assures us that the moon is used. Can't use something you can't see. Let me guess, you're of the camp that wants to start a month at full moon, right?
 

zeke25

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liafailrock said:
Nobody changed it from the tenth. It says to keep it from even to even. The even of the 9th (that's as the 9th day closes) to the even of the tenth i.e. the 10th day is closing. He did not say to keep it from morning until morning. To keep it from even until even (sundown) is quite clearly mentioned which is also equated to the tenth day so I don't know how that can be construed as morning until morning. Your argument in that paragraph is unconvincing and lacking proof. I don't like the word "perhaps" that you used to state a concrete point. No, he did not want them to prepare or celebrate it 12 hours early that you are trying to interject your own interpretation. A straightforward reading tells us that God is defining what the day is for the 10th: even until even.

Seems like Jesus kept days from the evening. After all, he died the even of the 14th and arose the even of the 17th as the firstfruits (Sunday) was dawning. That's 3 days and 3 nights. But it all started (i.e. the 3 days burial as in the sign of Jonah) on a night first.

As for the new moon, that's implied in the word rosh the head of the moon. Historically that's how it was done, and Christ did not argue or chastise them for their calendars. That's why he said no man knows the day or hour. That was an allusion to the feast of trumpets because nobody knew when the sighting of the moon was to take place whether that night or the next. This would not be a true statement with a calculated calendar if they did not view the moon. I fail to see the point of God even creating a moon if they don't use the moon visually (just as with the sun) for telling time. Genesis 1:14 assures us that the moon is used. Can't use something you can't see. Let me guess, you're of the camp that wants to start a month at full moon, right?
lia said: Nobody changed it from the tenth. It says to keep it from even to even. The even of the 9th (that's as the 9th day closes) to the even of the tenth i.e. the 10th day is closing.

zeke25 response: According to your statement you are speaking of a sundown day start. When the last sliver of the disk of the sun disappears below the western horizon (it no longer hurts your eyes to look at it), then sundown has occurred. The 9th of Ethanim has begun. For the next 24 hours it is Ethanim 9. Then (even to even) the next sundown occurs. Ethanim 9 is now over and Ethanim 10 now begins. That places the Day of Atonement completely within the 24 hour period of Ethanim 9. You can’t have it both ways with a sundown day start. A sundown day start cannot be reconciled with Lev. 23:27.

Lucky for us the Bible teaches a sunrise day start. Now another contradiction has been avoided.

lia: He did not say to keep it from morning until morning. To keep it from even until even (sundown) is quite clearly mentioned which is also equated to the tenth day so I don't know how that can be construed as morning until morning.

zeke: I didn’t provide all of the Scriptures. I expect that anyone interested would look the others up. Several places it states that the Day of Atonement is on Ethanim 10, which means sunrise to sunrise. One of those places is Lev. 23:27. But there is only one place in the Bible that says the Day of Atonement is to start 12 hours early, that is in Lev. 23:32. Do I have to repeat all of para 9 again, or did you even read it?


lia: Your argument in that paragraph is unconvincing and lacking proof.

zeke: The proof is right before your eyes. The only thing lacking is your willingness to read it with a willingness to understand it.

lia: I don't like the word "perhaps" that you used to state a concrete point.

zeke: Let’s look at the “perhaps” you are talking about. “Perhaps Yahowah wanted this sabbath to be celebrated from sundown to sundown because that is a much easier fast than from sunrise to sunrise.” This is not a concrete statement at all. If you have God’s phone number, perhaps you can share it with me and I’ll call Him up to confirm my speculation.

lia: No, he did not want them to prepare or celebrate it 12 hours early that you are trying to interject your own interpretation.


zeke: I’m starting to lose patience here. I’m not going to repeat myself again and again because you fail to understand the written word. I have not interjected my own interpretation at all. I’m not going to waste any more time in answering the rest of your comments - I must be a good stewart of my time, the children are hungry.

Except for one final comment. Why would I think a month starts at the full moon when the Bible says a new moon starts a month? And one more. I know that it is extremely difficult for someone to accept a complete reversal from a life time of training about a day start. But they need to set their emotions aside and look at the evidence. I can't do that for you, I can only present the evidence, you need to have a willing spirit to love the truth more than the lie you have bought into for so long.

Zeke25
 

liafailrock

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I'm not getting emotional at all. Sounds more like you are a tad. However, one has to understand time to keep calendars, calculations and the telling of time. But I'll just end here that you are saying that for the record, (since you tacked on the extra 12 hours for the 9th day in the evening) that it's called "the Day and a Half of Atonement." :D