A God of Hate

[the.reverent.atheist]

There are many passages in the Bible that explicitly say that Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is merciful and loving. Here’s an example:

The LORD is gracious and merciful,
slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
(Psalm 145:8, NRSVue)

But that’s far from the whole story. The Book of Joshua describes the conquest of the lands promised to the Israelites. Chapter 12 lists 31 kingdoms that were conquered under the leadership of Joshua. But those kingdoms weren’t just conquered. Every one of the kings of those kingdoms was killed. And not only that, but every one of the cities and towns over which those kings ruled was destroyed. And not only that, but all of the men, women, and children who lived in those cities and towns were killed:

And all the towns of those kings and all their kings, Joshua took and struck them with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them, as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded. But Israel burned none of the towns that stood on mounds except Hazor, which Joshua did burn. All the spoil of these towns and the livestock the Israelites plundered for themselves, but all the people they struck down with the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them, and they did not leave any who breathed. As the LORD had commanded his servant Moses, so Moses commanded Joshua, and so Joshua did; he left nothing undone of all that the LORD had commanded Moses.
(Joshua 11:12-15, NRSVue)

God himself actively participated in this slaughter:

The LORD said to Joshua, “Do not fear them, for I have handed them over to you; not one of them shall stand before you.” So Joshua came upon them suddenly, having marched up all night from Gilgal, And the LORD threw them into a panic before Israel, who inflicted a crushing blow on them at Gibeon, chased them by the way of the ascent of Beth-horon, and struck them down as far as Azekah and Makkedah. As they fled before Israel, while they were going down the slope of Beth-horon, the LORD threw down huge stones from heaven on them as far as Azekah, and they died; there were more who died because of the hailstones than the Israelites killed with the sword.
(Joshua 10:8-11, NRSVue)

Furthermore, God ordered this slaughter:

When Moses had finished speaking all these words to all Israel, he said to them, “I am now one hundred twenty years old. I am no longer able to get about, and the LORD has told me, ‘You shall not cross over this Jordan.’ The LORD your God himself will cross over before you. He will destroy these nations before you, and you shall dispossess them. Joshua also will cross over before you, as the LORD promised. The LORD will do to them as he did to Sihon and Og, the kings of the Amorites, and their land, when he destroyed them. The LORD will give them over to you, and you shall deal with them in full accord with the command that I have given you.”
(Deuteronomy 31:1-5, NRSVue)

Exactly why did God plan to slaughter all of those people? The answer is provided elsewhere in Deuteronomy:

“When the LORD your God brings you into the land that you are about to enter and occupy and he clears away many nations before you-- the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations more numerous and mightier than you-- and when the LORD your God gives them over to you and you defeat them, then you must utterly destroy them. Make no covenant with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, for that would turn away your children from following me, to serve other gods.”
(Deuteronomy 7:1-4, NRSVue)

So God didn’t want the Israelites to intermarry with the people of that region. But if God were actually merciful and loving, was there no other way to prevent the Israelites from intermarrying the indigenous people of the promised lands, or was slaughter the only possible option?

An omniscient God would have known that this problem would arise, and he could have planned for it at the time when he created the sun, the moon, the planets, the stars, the galaxies, and the earth itself. An omnipotent God could have created a force field around the entire region to prevent anyone else from entering. Then, when the Israelites arrived, he could have disabled the force field to let the Israelites enter a region that would have been fertile, lush, and unpopulated.

Or alternatively an omnipotent God could have left the promised lands at the bottom of the Mediterranean sea. Then when the Israelites arrived he could have lifted up the promised lands from the sea floor and the Israelites could have entered a region that would have been pristine, new, and uninhabited.

Or a truly omnipotent God could have lifted up all of the 31 kingdoms to carry them out of the way. If God had done that the inhabitants of that region would have been immensely grateful-- and he would thereby have gotten thousands of new followers as a result. Instead the only new followers he got were Rahab of Jericho and the other members of her whorehouse.

Slaughtering people simply for their beliefs is genocide. Yahweh certainly had plenty of time and opportunity to choose another path. Why didn’t Yahweh choose any of the options listed above? There is only one possible conclusion: Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is a God of genocide, not of love and mercy.

 

[Matthias]

“Note carefully, then, that God is both kind and severe.”

(Romans 11:21a, NTE)

 

[the.reverent.atheist]

“Note carefully, then, that God is both kind and severe.”

(Romans 11:21a, NTE)

So you accept God's plan to commit genocide, right?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?” (Job 38:2, KJV)

“Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?” (Job 40:8, KJV)

 

[ButterflyJones]

There are many passages in the Bible that explicitly say that Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is merciful and loving. Here’s an example:



But that’s far from the whole story. The Book of Joshua describes the conquest of the lands promised to the Israelites. Chapter 12 lists 31 kingdoms that were conquered under the leadership of Joshua. But those kingdoms weren’t just conquered. Every one of the kings of those kingdoms was killed. And not only that, but every one of the cities and towns over which those kings ruled was destroyed. And not only that, but all of the men, women, and children who lived in those cities and towns were killed:



God himself actively participated in this slaughter:



Furthermore, God ordered this slaughter:



Exactly why did God plan to slaughter all of those people? The answer is provided elsewhere in Deuteronomy:



So God didn’t want the Israelites to intermarry with the people of that region. But if God were actually merciful and loving, was there no other way to prevent the Israelites from intermarrying the indigenous people of the promised lands, or was slaughter the only possible option?

An omniscient God would have known that this problem would arise, and he could have planned for it at the time when he created the sun, the moon, the planets, the stars, the galaxies, and the earth itself. An omnipotent God could have created a force field around the entire region to prevent anyone else from entering. Then, when the Israelites arrived, he could have disabled the force field to let the Israelites enter a region that would have been fertile, lush, and unpopulated.

Or alternatively an omnipotent God could have left the promised lands at the bottom of the Mediterranean sea. Then when the Israelites arrived he could have lifted up the promised lands from the sea floor and the Israelites could have entered a region that would have been pristine, new, and uninhabited.

Or a truly omnipotent God could have lifted up all of the 31 kingdoms to carry them out of the way. If God had done that the inhabitants of that region would have been immensely grateful-- and he would thereby have gotten thousands of new followers as a result. Instead the only new followers he got were Rahab of Jericho and the other members of her whorehouse.

Slaughtering people simply for their beliefs is genocide. Yahweh certainly had plenty of time and opportunity to choose another path. Why didn’t Yahweh choose any of the options listed above? There is only one possible conclusion: Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is a God of genocide, not of love and mercy.

Many note the term, Elohim, is plural and pertains to many God's.
Even though in the original Hebrew Elohim is not defined anywhere. Only in later translations was Elohim claimed as meaning, God, in the singular. But that is an interpolation.

This in part is why many note the Elohim being a plural reference or identifier is actually a category attached to multiple God's.
This idea is sustained in Genesis when God refers to the creation of humans.

Let us make man in our image and likeness.

And after their fall due to eating the forbidden fruit, the man has become like one of us....

This is further sustained by the different names of God in the Old Testament. Which is why it is thought the wars those God's levied against different tribes of people were because the God of each tribe led the wars for conquest and defense of their region.

There's another thought. That the Bible is a record of these events. It isn't about God. Rather it is about the Elohim and the God's of the people.

An interesting proposition I think.
Certainly even a cursory read of the OT allows us to realize the savagery and mass murders by and through the command of the Elohim, or God, precludes any notion of Omnibenevolence.

 

[Wrangler]

Why didn’t Yahweh choose any of the options listed above? There is only one possible conclusion: Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is a God of genocide, not of love and mercy.

You continue to ask questions way above your pay grade.

Why do you even ask why Yahweh chose one option over others when you don't even believe he exists?

Years ago the pastor said in a sermon that our God is an emotional God. Yes, he hates. Yes, he loves. Yes, he is merciful. And yes, he is a conquorer, a warrior God who defeats all. It is only AFTER you submit fully to him that his grace and mercy is revealed. Not before.

And one other thing, Yahweh is the potter and we are the clay. His wrath is not limited to genocide but extinction of all who oppose him. What is funny is that this surprises you in the least. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, which you have none.

 

[the.reverent.atheist]

Years ago the pastor said in a sermon that our God is an emotional God. Yes, he hates. Yes, he loves. Yes, he is merciful. And yes, he is a conquorer, a warrior God who defeats all. It is only AFTER you submit fully to him that his grace and mercy is revealed. Not before.

Anyone who believes that it is perfectly reasonable to slaughter people purely for their beliefs is a bigot. Renounce your bigotry and apologize.

 

[Wrangler]

Anyone who believes that it is perfectly reasonable to slaughter people purely for their beliefs is a bigot. Renounce your bigotry and apologize.

Sticks and stones.

The moral attack on God from an immoral being.

Demanding for a dead man with no negotiating position.


“Behold, You have made my days as handbreadths,
And my lifetime as nothing in Your sight;
Surely every man at his best is a mere breath. Selah.
Psalm 39:5

 

[Matthias]

So you accept God's plan to commit genocide, right?

Yahweh is my God and the Messiah’s God. I accept everything that God plans and carries out.

 

[Matthias]

When I was a college student I attended a classroom lecture entitled, “Yahweh. As told by Yahweh.” The lecture was about Yahweh’s character; an exposition of Exodus 34:6-7. The professor used the NIV - which I personally don’t care much for, but I’ll quote it here because of the acronyms the professor used. They made quite an impression on me and are stamped on my memory.

“And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, ‘The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generations.’”

CG, SA, ALF, ML, FWRS, YNLGU.

 

[marks]

Anyone who believes that it is perfectly reasonable to slaughter people purely for their beliefs is a bigot. Renounce your bigotry and apologize.

Why are you thinking they were killed "purely for their beliefs"? It was for their sin. And you also will die in sin just the same unless you repent. But if you sit in judgment over your Creator, what will you say when you are judged by Him?

Or you can now receive His grace and mercy for your sin, so that you will not die, but will live with Him forever. He freely forgives those who come to Him in repentance, that is, a repudiation of your sin, your sinful ways, your sinful self, to receive new life from Him, a clean life, a pure life, a good life!

Much love!

 

[Matthias]

The timing of your thread is interesting for me @the.reverent.atheist.

This morning I was reading a conversation which I wasn’t directly involved in on a social media site. The discussion was about a common saying in Christian circles - “God hates the sin but loves the sinner” - and it revolved around a single passage of scripture: Psalm 5:5 (KJV).

”The foolish shall not stand in thy sight; thou hatest all workers of iniquity.”

Is the timing of your thread a mere coincidence or divine providence? That’s a question better suited for me to ponder than you.

 

[Matthias]

We had strong thunderstorms this morning in the area where I live. The conversation I mentioned in post #12 caused me to think about what Jesus said in Matthew 5:45.

“that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.”

(WEB)

Yahweh - my God and Father in heaven - treats his enemies as if they were not his enemies, but rather as those who love and obey him.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

There are many passages in the Bible that explicitly say that Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is merciful and loving. Here’s an example:



But that’s far from the whole story. The Book of Joshua describes the conquest of the lands promised to the Israelites. Chapter 12 lists 31 kingdoms that were conquered under the leadership of Joshua. But those kingdoms weren’t just conquered. Every one of the kings of those kingdoms was killed. And not only that, but every one of the cities and towns over which those kings ruled was destroyed. And not only that, but all of the men, women, and children who lived in those cities and towns were killed:



God himself actively participated in this slaughter:



Furthermore, God ordered this slaughter:



Exactly why did God plan to slaughter all of those people? The answer is provided elsewhere in Deuteronomy:



So God didn’t want the Israelites to intermarry with the people of that region. But if God were actually merciful and loving, was there no other way to prevent the Israelites from intermarrying the indigenous people of the promised lands, or was slaughter the only possible option?

An omniscient God would have known that this problem would arise, and he could have planned for it at the time when he created the sun, the moon, the planets, the stars, the galaxies, and the earth itself. An omnipotent God could have created a force field around the entire region to prevent anyone else from entering. Then, when the Israelites arrived, he could have disabled the force field to let the Israelites enter a region that would have been fertile, lush, and unpopulated.

Or alternatively an omnipotent God could have left the promised lands at the bottom of the Mediterranean sea. Then when the Israelites arrived he could have lifted up the promised lands from the sea floor and the Israelites could have entered a region that would have been pristine, new, and uninhabited.

Or a truly omnipotent God could have lifted up all of the 31 kingdoms to carry them out of the way. If God had done that the inhabitants of that region would have been immensely grateful-- and he would thereby have gotten thousands of new followers as a result. Instead the only new followers he got were Rahab of Jericho and the other members of her whorehouse.

Slaughtering people simply for their beliefs is genocide. Yahweh certainly had plenty of time and opportunity to choose another path. Why didn’t Yahweh choose any of the options listed above? There is only one possible conclusion: Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is a God of genocide, not of love and mercy.

We need to experience both good and evil. We could not really appreciate or know what good is until we go without it, see the other side. We couldn't know or appreciate God and all His attributes (and all good things come from God).
He put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden for that reason. He knew they would fail but had a plan and His Plan is perfect.
But love is something that you cannot force upon people. They need to make choices, good and bad ones that will ultimately lead them to a divine appointment, at which time they give up on their ways that don't work and reach out to God for help.
If you feel that life really hasn't worked out the way you planned it, you're not happy or maybe you prepared well, prospered and reached your goals but feel like you arrived at a party that was over and you are left with that empty void inside that cannot be filled no matter what.
Only God can fill the void. It's spiritual. Materialism, acconplishments, people, fun, sex and everything under the sun cannot fill that void.
He stands at the door and knocks, but you must answer it and invite Him in.
Otherwise, continue as you were ... towards destruction.
Our purpose in life is to be reconciled with God through Christ. If you do not reach that divine appointment, then you too with perish. God is a God of Love, but He is also a God of justice. We all have fallen short and so need forgiveness.
When you count your blessings (the things that make you happy), know that they are from God. He chastised those He loves, but it is for our good.

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28

 

[the.reverent.atheist]

Why are you thinking they were killed "purely for their beliefs"? It was for their sin.

What sin specifically? The only "sin" mentioned is that they were not followers of Yahweh. Do you think that anyone who refuses to worship Yahweh should be slaughtered?

Maybe you missed an earlier discussion. I said in the following posting that there have been billions and billions of people who have lived on this planet who never once in their lives had any opportunity at all to even hear about Jesus or the Bible or the Ten Commandments or the Crucifixion:

The Messiah

So how will God treat such people on the day of judgment? If belief in Jesus is required to earn eternal life then God has literally set up billions and billions of people to fail in the single most important choice they could possibly make in their lives.

A God who slaughters people simply because they don't believe in him, and who condemns billions to the everlasting fires of hell and damnation just because they don't believe in Jesus is a tyrant. Such a God is not deserving of anyone's worship.

I believe that people should be judged on the basis of their actions and deeds, not on their personal beliefs. I believe the same is true of gods. Huitzilopochtli, the Aztec god of war, required frequent ritual human sacrifice. I refuse to worship such a god because I think human sacrifice is evil. And similarly I refuse to worship a god who behaves as Yahweh has behaved because his actions are those of a tyrant!

 

[Matthias]

So you think Yahweh is a tyrant and Yahweh thinks you’re evil.

You’re going to be standing in front of Yahweh’s son, the Messiah, one day.

Yahweh has appointed a man, Jesus of Nazareth, to decide what to do with you.

I wouldn’t want to ever find myself in that situation.

 

[marks]

What sin specifically? The only "sin" mentioned is that they were not followers of Yahweh.

I wouldn't be too concerned over their sins, you will stand before God to be judged for yours. Jesus can rescue you from the death you've brought onto yourself. If that's what you want.

That thing hitting you on the head is a life preserver, not a hammer.

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

A God who slaughters people simply because they don't believe in him, and who condemns billions to the everlasting fires of hell

“…all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?” (Daniel 4:35, KJV)

 

[dadman]

Perfect love is what God has promised to do and to be. In love He reaches out to you—love not based on shifting emotions or what you deserve, but bound up in the very nature of who He is .... But can you really take Him at His word? If God is love, how do you explain those nagging questions we all have but dare never ask aloud?

Does God love everyone the same?
How can a loving God allow people to suffer?
If God loves the world, why did He choose to save only some and not everyone?
If God’s nature is to love, how can He be so filled with wrath and judgment toward sinners?​

In The Love of God, John MacArthur offers a passionate, well-argued defense for what the love of God is—and what it is not. This series tackles the difficult questions head on and provides frank, thoroughly biblical answers.


PS: ..... to the revernt ATHEIST ....
you believe (by faith) that God does not exist ?
well, then don't worry about it .... right ?
you have no dog in this fight

.....

 

[dadman]

So you accept God's plan to commit genocide, right?

pfft !! God could zap you into non-existence in a Nano-second and be totally just in doing so ....
he owes you nothing .. get over yourself

Man's last day in God's court ... part 1 of 3
Man's last day in God's court ... part 2 of 3
Man's last day in God's court ... part 3 of 3

.....