A God of Hate

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ScottA

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Disagree in cartoon characters. To me that doesn’t help in soothing over the question of why a God of hate? by reducing the characters to fictional cartoon characters. For me it is like suggesting bleeding isn’t really real. But to imagine it is all make belief. Reducing all this to …don’t be alarmed it is only a carton …as if to soften the blow of discarding of the cartoon characters. Like …the gun slinging character…it is all a cartoon with fake blood and fake bullets, no harm done. God just destroys the cartoon characters in the show. They aren’t real people. You may say …no you just don’t get it. But He bled. Should we look at the crucifix and not feel pain saying it was just a cartoon and not real blood shed? Minimizing His asking “why do you seek to kill Me?”

Shock and offended I'm sure.

Nonetheless, I was quoting. What did you think God creating mankind as an "image" actually meant?
 

VictoryinJesus

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I might see the answer to my question if you answer my question. Why do you suppose anything can or should sooth over the Scriptural fact that God hates?
I’m trying to tell you why I don’t think God equals hate.
Which is what you are asking “why do you suppose anything can or should sooth over the Scriptural fact God hates?” First off I’m not sure how you got that I was asking for something to soothe over a God of Hate. Is it because my questions about cartoon characters was implying I want something that soothes better than cartoon characters with fictional red blood and fictional importance so they are expendable just like that? My asking for something that does soothe? Is that why you took offense? Liking (if I’m not mistaken the idea of cartoon characters but not suggesting that the idea soothes by making them (expendable props) cartoon characters?

I asked you: Why were unclean people collected throughout the OT, told to be put without the gate in an unclean place?
Which you won’t answer. I hate algebra and I’m not good at it. But if you have all the equation except one for …example in Algebra you don’t know what “X” is….then you can not claim the answer = hate. A God of hate.

OT …. One mystery; what is missing.
Again maybe a poor example but having all of the equation of pointing at the woman who did not scream when raped, the unclean lepers, all the children and women of spoils of war …without what is missing the answer is said to undeniably = see here “a God of Hate.”
ONE missing though … what is unseen, that was missing that makes a foolish answer given of He IS(=) a God of Hate?
Put that which was missing in OT within the equation and …if you would answer what the mystery of “X” IS (=) the answer is= a God of LOVE. As long at your telling the OP that all the given in OT equals a God of Hate …you removed what was missing In the OT. Removing the mystery.

Why were unclean people collected throughout the OT, told to be put without the gate in an unclean place? Answer and you will find what was missing that equals a God of Love.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Shock and offended I'm sure.

Nonetheless, I was quoting. What did you think God creating mankind as an "image" actually meant?
Who created the false image though? The cartoon version as you explained? Did God create the cartoon version or the world? God is not the author of confusion?
 

Matthias

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Why were unclean people collected throughout the OT, told to be put without the gate in an unclean place?

I think Peter provides some insight on that in 2 Peter 3:9.

”... he is patient with us, not wishing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

What do you think about that? Is it applicable? Does it answer the question? If not in full, at least in part?
 
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VictoryinJesus

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I'm sorry. This equality stuff was not the topic of conversation. No one equals one emotion.

I guess I'll just bow out of the conversation.
People ask, I’ve had these same questions:
How is God a Loving God?
The reply is always a puffed up one. “What? Do you have a problem with a God of Hate?”

The evidence pointed at to prove He is a God of Hate is the OT. Some of the questions I’ve had before. So God told them to put a woman raped without the gate but not her rapist = Jesus Christ stood with a woman who was about to be stoned. (Scratching my head also, how is that so?) Telling them you who are without sin cast your first stone. her accusers dropped their stones. One by one from the least to the greastest.

OT God hates …there is a long list: any with a blemish, a blind man, a lame man, any with a flat nose, superfluous (I don’t know what that is), a man with a broken foot, a broken hand, a crooktbackt, a dwarf, a blemish in your eye, scurvy, if you have a scab, or if your stones are broken …elsewhere don’t touch the lepers for they are unclean…put them without in an unclean place! and the woman with an issue of blood put her without the gate also = Jesus Christ touched the lepers, he had mercy on the woman bent over and hunchbacked for most of her life, and Jesus Christ took mercy on the woman with an issue of blood where no physician could heal her. Not to mention God in OT hated a blind man and a lame man = Jesus healed the blind man and the lame man leapt for joy.

Am I suggesting they (Jesus Christ and God) are different. No. Not at all. Not in my opinion. As I’ve tried to share all those unclean “imperfect” and sick and “in need of a physician” : they were told in the OT to put them “those people” without in an unclean place: Women and children; the spoils of war. The unclean woman. The bleeding woman. The blind man. The lame man. Any thing dead and bleeding (menstruating) The lepers. The hunchbacks. Those who have a blemish. The flat-nosed. Insert what was unseen in the Old Testament. What was missing OT? “To prepare a people in His own Blood, He suffered without the gate.” = Jesus Christ touched the leaper, healed the blind and lame man, had compassion on the woman with an issue of blood. Those sick and unclean and in need of a physician is the people He went to. Who told Jesus Christ to go to them if not God (I only do and say what I see My Father say and do) who we say is a God of Hate. Preparing an unclean people without the gate “in an unclean place” in the OT, NT Jesus Christ going to visit those people suffering without the Gate knowing they have need of a physician.

per God’s instruction all those unclean people gathered together were put without in an unclean place + having foreknowledge His Son would suffer without the gate to prepare a people in His own blood= who Jesus Christ ministered to ( the blind, the lame, the blemished, the sick, those rejected, he reached out and touched the lepers lifting them up by the hand…see how there isn’t many noble among you?) fulfilling His Fathers Will. —to me without seeing that which was unseen in the OT leads to “a God of hate”….missing Where Jesus went to prepare a people in need of Him… not revealing a God of Hate but the opposite “a God of Mercy and of Love” long-suffering, patient, kind hearted, of power and of Love and of a sound Mind…not willing that any perish but that all come to the Knowledge of His Love, Grace, Mercy and Truth.

@Wrangler when I asked you: Why were unclean people collected throughout the OT, told to be put without the gate in an unclean place?
I wanted you to say “because that is where Jesus Christ was going without (to an unclean place) to suffer to prepare a people (unclean) to wash them clean in His own blood. (Remember the disciples that intimate moment of His washing them.) …and a tax collector among them!
I wanted you to say this and then I would have asked then …How does the equal “a God of Hate”?
 
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ScottA

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Who created the false image though? The cartoon version as you explained? Did God create the cartoon version or the world? God is not the author of confusion?

The cartoon example is just that, an example. And it is an example of what God has declared from the beginning as being the nature of His creation.

That declaration begins with an "image" and ends with the further clarification, saying, "He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." But what do the scriptures also say?-- "And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain."

Thus, whether the example is an "image" or a worldly comparable cartoon image, or a parable of "grain", the indication is the same: There is an image that God has created in this world which is only that, and not what shall be.

These things ought to be easily understood as biblical and true.

As for confusion, God is a god of order as Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 14:33, but He is indeed also the Author of confusion:

Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”​
 
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VictoryinJesus

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As for confusion, God is a god of order as Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 14:33, but He is indeed also the Author of confusion:

Genesis 11:7Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”
Never noticed that before. Well that is confusing. :confused:Thanks for pointing it out.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Notice also that it says "there confuse"...meaning, only here in the world. This is all good news, the end of which is that we who believe are lead "unto all truth" by the Holy Spirit.

Blessings to you!

Noticing also with confuse is also to confound. For example 1 Corinthians 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

just saying now I’m really confused how God is not the author of confusion…yet also “let us go down and there confuse their language” and also “to confound the wise” and “to confound the things that are mighty”
 

ScottA

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Noticing also with confuse is also to confound. For example 1 Corinthians 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

just saying now I’m really confused how God is not the author of confusion…yet also “let us go down and there confuse their language” and also “to confound the wise” and “to confound the things that are mighty”

The word for "confusion" in 1 Corinthians 14:33 can be translated in different meanings, perhaps the best of which are "instability" and "disorder." See the last line below:

For G1063 God G2316 is G2076 not G3756 the author of confusion, G181 but G235 of peace, G1515 as G5613 in G1722 all G3956 churches G1577 of the saints. G40

akatastasia

Choose a new font size and typeface

ἀκαταστασία​

Transliteration​
akatastasia (Key)​
Pronunciation​
ak-at-as-tah-see'-ah​
speaker3_a.svg

Part of Speech​
feminine noun​
Root Word (Etymology)​
Greek Inflections of ἀκαταστασία [?]​
mGNT​
5x in 4 unique form(s) TR​
5x in 4 unique form(s) LXX​
1x in 1 unique form(s)​
Dictionary Aids​
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry​
TDNT Reference: 3:446,387​
KJV Translation Count — Total: 5x​
The KJV translates Strong's G181 in the following manner: confusion (2x), tumult (2x), commotion (1x).​
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]​
  1. instability, a state of disorder, disturbance, confusion
Also, notice that "the author" being italicized is not actually in the original manuscript. Which might then be better understood as a statement by Paul saying rather that God is not unstable or disorderly. Meaning that there is actually no contradiction with Genesis 11:7. Indeed, God is the author of a most perfect plan!
 
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Gottservant

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There are many passages in the Bible that explicitly say that Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is merciful and loving. Here’s an example:

[...]

There is only one possible conclusion: Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is a God of genocide, not of love and mercy.
You honestly think blood thirsty barbarians, would leave at peace, a nation of faith in God?

If you do, you are either extremely ignorant or there is something about humanity that you fundamentally don't understand.

When Jesus says "a man's enemies will be enemies of his own household" is He welcoming genocide in the household?
 

VictoryinJesus

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The word for "confusion" in 1 Corinthians 14:33 can be translated in different meanings, perhaps the best of which are "instability" and "disorder." See the last line below:

For G1063 God G2316 is G2076 not G3756 the author of confusion, G181 but G235 of peace, G1515 as G5613 in G1722 all G3956 churches G1577 of the saints. G40

akatastasia

Choose a new font size and typeface

ἀκαταστασία​

Transliteration​
akatastasia (Key)​
Pronunciation​
ak-at-as-tah-see'-ah​
speaker3_a.svg

Part of Speech​
feminine noun​
Root Word (Etymology)​
Greek Inflections of ἀκαταστασία [?]​
mGNT​
5x in 4 unique form(s) TR​
5x in 4 unique form(s) LXX​
1x in 1 unique form(s)​
Dictionary Aids​
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry​
TDNT Reference: 3:446,387​
KJV Translation Count — Total: 5x​
The KJV translates Strong's G181 in the following manner: confusion (2x), tumult (2x), commotion (1x).​
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]​
  1. instability, a state of disorder, disturbance, confusion
Also, notice that "the author" being italicized is not actually in the original manuscript. Which might then be better understood as a statement by Paul saying rather that God is not unstable or disorderly. Meaning that there is actually no contradiction with Genesis 11:7. Indeed, God is the author of a most perfect plan!
Still thinking this over this morning. It may seem not to still be on topic of the thread, but to me it is. In regard to my understanding of God is not the author of confusion. But then as you have shown…several verses that give another perspective that makes me honestly step back and think maybe I don’t know so much about a God of Hate.

I don’t deny Isaiah 45:6-7 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

But for me God’s motive is always the outcome of better things. Which to me never equates to Hate but Love. That is why I shared about the OT putting of those unclean without in an unclean place. There are harsh things in the OT. But I truly believed there wasn’t a period mark at the end of those unclean being put without in an unclean place…but instead for His Glory in “he suffered without the gate to prepare a people in His own blood.” To some that may seem like trying to make it what I wish it was. But to me it shows the motive of God was to prepare and “save” “rescue” “welcome” and receive the broken hearted and sick. But now you do have me wondering if I made it fit what I want to be there in Christ.

I get “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”
Just like: Ecclesiastes 3:1- 8 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: [2] A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; [3] A time to kill(OT), and a time to heal(NT); a time to break down(OT), and a time to build up(NT); [4] A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; [5] A time to cast away stones(OT), and a time to gather stones together(NT); a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; [6] A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; [7] A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; [8] A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

But I always thought or focused on the motive where unlike men whose motive is to kill…I always maybe naively so thought in every thing done under the sun “darkness” or “Light” “peace” or “evil” (God does no evil?) the outcome is always for our profit or gain that we share in His likeness.

The harsh realities that I don’t understand. To explain I look at them as parents who have a family member hooked on drugs or alcohol…to not enable and to cut them loose so they hopefully learn for themselves where they are headed …may look like hate to those on the outside. But the crushing pain and dreadful worry that the family member will fatally harm themselves doesn’t go away just because you’ve separated yourself from them… to me it is what is the motive of the heart. Is it abandonment or Love? Is it to kill or to heal? Is it to destroy or to rescue? Trying to explain …yes I read also harsh things in the OT and the New but in the same way with God after all I’ve read about Him Or experienced …His always seems to be for our good. Long suffering, His Love not weakening even when we leave Him thinking we know better. His Patience for our coming into agreement and returning, His enduring our lessons of “That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.”
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Still thinking this over this morning. It may seem not to still be on topic of the thread, but to me it is. In regard to my understanding of God is not the author of confusion. But then as you have shown…several verses that give another perspective that makes me honestly step back and think maybe I don’t know so much about a God of Hate.

I don’t deny Isaiah 45:6-7 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

But for me God’s motive is always the outcome of better things. Which to me never equates to Hate but Love. That is why I shared about the OT putting of those unclean without in an unclean place. There are harsh things in the OT. But I truly believed there wasn’t a period mark at the end of those unclean being put without in an unclean place…but instead for His Glory in “he suffered without the gate to prepare a people in His own blood.” To some that may seem like trying to make it what I wish it was. But to me it shows the motive of God was to prepare and “save” “rescue” “welcome” and receive the broken hearted and sick. But now you do have me wondering if I made it fit what I want to be there in Christ.

I get “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”
Just like: Ecclesiastes 3:1- 8 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: [2] A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; [3] A time to kill(OT), and a time to heal(NT); a time to break down(OT), and a time to build up(NT); [4] A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; [5] A time to cast away stones(OT), and a time to gather stones together(NT); a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; [6] A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; [7] A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; [8] A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

But I always thought or focused on the motive where unlike men whose motive is to kill…I always maybe naively so thought in every thing done under the sun “darkness” or “Light” “peace” or “evil” (God does no evil?) the outcome is always for our profit or gain that we share in His likeness.

The harsh realities that I don’t understand. To explain I look at them as parents who have a family member hooked on drugs or alcohol…to not enable and to cut them loose so they hopefully learn for themselves where they are headed …may look like hate to those on the outside. But the crushing pain and dreadful worry that the family member will fatally harm themselves doesn’t go away just because you’ve separated yourself from them… to me it is what is the motive of the heart. Is it abandonment or Love? Is it to kill or to heal? Is it to destroy or to rescue? Trying to explain …yes I read also harsh things in the OT and the New but in the same way with God after all I’ve read about Him Or experienced …His always seems to be for our good. Long suffering, His Love not weakening even when we leave Him thinking we know better. His Patience for our coming into agreement and returning, His enduring our lessons of “That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.”
Isn’t it vital …just as vital as blood pumping in veins…to be fully and undeniably persuaded God is good and Loving, kind and long-suffering, patient, and enduring of all things? If I focus on His hate. What is going to carry me through when I’m lying in a hospital bed suffering from cancer, or some disease that has smothered the life out of me? How do we keep standing in the face of bad news and tragedy…weak and frail in the verge of dying? Are we mental or delusional to keep our eyes focused on God is Love, God is good, God helps, God endures, God is long-suffering Kind and patient…even lying there with the cancer consuming what is left? We don’t say or cry out to a “God of Hate”…we don’t trust in a “God of Hate.” Just my input but I would fold up, curl up and die of an overwhelming fear and dread if …at that point if my eyes were set on a “God of Hate.” Fully persuaded of a God of Hate. I would see no hope, no joy, no reason to endure bad news or tragedy. I think of Job. The whole of Job “Go on and curse God. He did this to you. Why don’t you curse Him?”
 

VictoryinJesus

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“There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counsellor.” (Nahum 1:11, KJV)​

Reminds me of the verse. I can’t find it now. Do you know where it is? One speaks evil of God and another speaks good of God?
 

VictoryinJesus

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It’s not registering in my mind at the moment.

I’ll search…
Finally found it
1 Peter 4:14
[14] If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye ; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
But it is completely different in the Lexicon.
 
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ScottA

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Still thinking this over this morning. It may seem not to still be on topic of the thread, but to me it is. In regard to my understanding of God is not the author of confusion. But then as you have shown…several verses that give another perspective that makes me honestly step back and think maybe I don’t know so much about a God of Hate.

I don’t deny Isaiah 45:6-7 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

But for me God’s motive is always the outcome of better things. Which to me never equates to Hate but Love. That is why I shared about the OT putting of those unclean without in an unclean place. There are harsh things in the OT. But I truly believed there wasn’t a period mark at the end of those unclean being put without in an unclean place…but instead for His Glory in “he suffered without the gate to prepare a people in His own blood.” To some that may seem like trying to make it what I wish it was. But to me it shows the motive of God was to prepare and “save” “rescue” “welcome” and receive the broken hearted and sick. But now you do have me wondering if I made it fit what I want to be there in Christ.

I get “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”
Just like: Ecclesiastes 3:1- 8 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: [2] A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; [3] A time to kill(OT), and a time to heal(NT); a time to break down(OT), and a time to build up(NT); [4] A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; [5] A time to cast away stones(OT), and a time to gather stones together(NT); a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; [6] A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; [7] A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; [8] A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

But I always thought or focused on the motive where unlike men whose motive is to kill…I always maybe naively so thought in every thing done under the sun “darkness” or “Light” “peace” or “evil” (God does no evil?) the outcome is always for our profit or gain that we share in His likeness.

The harsh realities that I don’t understand. To explain I look at them as parents who have a family member hooked on drugs or alcohol…to not enable and to cut them loose so they hopefully learn for themselves where they are headed …may look like hate to those on the outside. But the crushing pain and dreadful worry that the family member will fatally harm themselves doesn’t go away just because you’ve separated yourself from them… to me it is what is the motive of the heart. Is it abandonment or Love? Is it to kill or to heal? Is it to destroy or to rescue? Trying to explain …yes I read also harsh things in the OT and the New but in the same way with God after all I’ve read about Him Or experienced …His always seems to be for our good. Long suffering, His Love not weakening even when we leave Him thinking we know better. His Patience for our coming into agreement and returning, His enduring our lessons of “That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.”

Indeed, you are correct-- God is love, and His intentions are good. But the same plan that is a rescue of those who would come to love Him, includes the elimination of evil, that evil would not remain a plague forever against all are willing to come back around to the love and goodness of God.
 

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There are many passages in the Bible that explicitly say that Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is merciful and loving. Here’s an example:



But that’s far from the whole story. The Book of Joshua describes the conquest of the lands promised to the Israelites. Chapter 12 lists 31 kingdoms that were conquered under the leadership of Joshua. But those kingdoms weren’t just conquered. Every one of the kings of those kingdoms was killed. And not only that, but every one of the cities and towns over which those kings ruled was destroyed. And not only that, but all of the men, women, and children who lived in those cities and towns were killed:



God himself actively participated in this slaughter:



Furthermore, God ordered this slaughter:



Exactly why did God plan to slaughter all of those people? The answer is provided elsewhere in Deuteronomy:



So God didn’t want the Israelites to intermarry with the people of that region. But if God were actually merciful and loving, was there no other way to prevent the Israelites from intermarrying the indigenous people of the promised lands, or was slaughter the only possible option?

An omniscient God would have known that this problem would arise, and he could have planned for it at the time when he created the sun, the moon, the planets, the stars, the galaxies, and the earth itself. An omnipotent God could have created a force field around the entire region to prevent anyone else from entering. Then, when the Israelites arrived, he could have disabled the force field to let the Israelites enter a region that would have been fertile, lush, and unpopulated.

Or alternatively an omnipotent God could have left the promised lands at the bottom of the Mediterranean sea. Then when the Israelites arrived he could have lifted up the promised lands from the sea floor and the Israelites could have entered a region that would have been pristine, new, and uninhabited.

Or a truly omnipotent God could have lifted up all of the 31 kingdoms to carry them out of the way. If God had done that the inhabitants of that region would have been immensely grateful-- and he would thereby have gotten thousands of new followers as a result. Instead the only new followers he got were Rahab of Jericho and the other members of her whorehouse.

Slaughtering people simply for their beliefs is genocide. Yahweh certainly had plenty of time and opportunity to choose another path. Why didn’t Yahweh choose any of the options listed above? There is only one possible conclusion: Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is a God of genocide, not of love and mercy.
are you even aware that you've made a personal decision, based on zero evidence, that these kings and kingdoms were purely innocent and simply minding their own business while living peacefully and not bothering anyone or anything?

you approach this subject as if you have all this data to construct a case against God and the Bible, but you don't even seem to realize that the foundation of your argument is completely without any historical, or Biblical, data whatsoever?

why do you choose to believe that God just randomly decided to slaughter all these people for no good reason whatsoever?

did it ever occur to you that He might have had a very good reason for wiping these people off the map?