A NEW TAKE ON AN OLD DEBATE.

[FHII]

That such a study was done at Oral Roberts University doesn't come as a surprise.

My first instinct would be to agree, but don't be fooled! It is a fully accredited University, not just a Bible school. They have programs in exercise Physiology, biology, history, chemistry, mathematics, dance, special ed, etc.

They even have a division 1 sports program and a mens basketball team that has done pretty well.

 

[marks]

Even if we open the box and find persecutions against us ,

There's the real test!

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I needed this, @amadeus , thank you. I have struggled with tongues.

Tongues are not something I use regularly. I only use them when I don't know what to pray for, because of Romans 8:26. I know it's also for edification, but I just haven't quite figured it out.

Sometimes when a problem comes, I don't know how some things should be fixed but the Holy Spirit does.

Don't press of yourself as if you could do it alone and do not let other people insist that you must do this or do that. What we all must do is be led and directed by God through the Holy Spirit.

Very simply ask God to help you do what He has for you to do. Don't stop with one request. Keep on asking! For God there is no limit! Any limit is in our own willingness to surrender to continue to surrender to Him.

Ask Him also for His will for you in regard to tongues. For me it is an absolute daily necessity in my walk with God, but I also learned a long time ago that all people are not the same. Not all who love God are in the same place with Him nor are we all to be the same part of the Body of Christ.

The Body of Christ has many members each with its own function as God orders it. Its many members are often at different stages in their walk along the highway of holiness toward the Light. We are to grow. Too many people lean back in the place they are and begin to stagnate. Stagnation equals death!

 

[marks]

People who try to coach others to speak in tongues are likely in error themselves, but let us not throw out the gift of God because of some men's errors!

Amen!

 

[DuckieLady]

Paul encourages us in the use of our gifts. The act of letting the Holy Spirit work in and through us itself changes us to become more like Him.

When we move in our gifts, this is being as Jesus is, and as our new man is. So we're really just being who we really are, the holy servants of God, and actually living that we, OH I'm having a hard time saying what I'm trying to say . . .

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 KJV
17) Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18) But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

beholding as in a glass . . . that is, in a mirror . . . what do we see in a mirror? The glory of the Lord seen in us changes us into that glory. By the Spirit of the Lord, in Whom is Liberty! Freedom!

Much love!

This really helps a lot. You're right. Something I need to do is trust Him with it and maybe stop being paranoid about it. Lol

Thank You, @marks !

 

[DuckieLady]

Don't press of yourself as if you could do it alone and do not let other people insist that you must do this or do that. What we all must do is be led and directed by God through the Holy Spirit.

Very simply ask God to help you do what He has for you to do. Don't stop with one request. Keep on asking! For God there is no limit! Any limit is in our own willingness to surrender to continue to surrender to Him.

Ask Him also for His will for you in regard to tongues. For me it is an absolute daily necessity in my walk with God, but I also learned a long time ago that all people are not the same. Not all who love God are in the same place with Him nor are we all to be the same part of the Body of Christ.

The Body of Christ has many members each with its own function as God orders it. Its many members are often at different stages in their walk along the highway of holiness toward the Light. We are to grow. Too many people lean back in the place they are and begin to stagnate. Stagnation equals death!

Very true also, thank you!

 

[amadeus]

In 1976, at 15, I was living with my dad for 1.5 years. He took me to Calvary Chapel to hear Chuck Smith, but I wouldn't be a Christian for another 5 years. But I remember liking the clean feeling there.

Much love!

Amen! My father's family was always Pentecostal, but my mother divorced him and moved with us to California to become Catholics. I was baptized Catholic in 1949 at the age of 6. During those early Catholic years my older brother and I would frequently travel to Oklahoma to visit my father. Sometimes for a whole summer we would engage in the Pentecostal way in lieu of the Catholic way awaiting us back in California.

I was not unhappy in California, but I loved those wonderful God-loving Pentecostal people in Oklahoma.

I have lived in Oklahoma now since 1987, but as I see it now, it is not in the Bible Belt as it once was... My paternal grandmother was truly a woman of God. There are not any like her any more!

 

[DuckieLady]

Just throwing this out there @Pearl, one thing I have learned lately in prayer, is sometimes just rest.

It has really helped me to take a break from listening, thinking, or speaking, but instead to just be still and rest in Him. Just to be alone in His presence.

That has helped a lot in growing closer with peace without mentally overexerting myself while seeking Him.

Just know he is there and trust Him.

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

 

[Pearl]

Just throwing this out there @Pearl, one thing I have learned lately in prayer, is sometimes just rest.

It has really helped me to take a break from listening, thinking, or speaking, but instead to just be still and rest in Him. Just to be alone in His presence.

That has helped a lot in growing closer with peace without mentally overexerting myself while seeking Him.

Just know he is there and trust Him.

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

• I really like that verse. And resting is good and is one way, but there are so many other ways to pray/communicate with God. God said to me once in a time of feeling detached from him, 'Just Be and let me'.

 

[DuckieLady]

God said to me once in a time of feeling detached from him, 'Just Be and let me'.

I love that quote so much.

 

[marks]

There are not any like her any more!

That's too bad! Nothing like a praying grandma!

Much love!

 

[marks]

This really helps a lot. You're right. Something I need to do is trust Him with it and maybe stop being paranoid about it. Lol

Thank You, @marks !

Now I understand why I had to go back and include verse 17. I didn't at first.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

That's too bad! Nothing like a praying grandma!

Much love!

Unfortunately that is way with too many churches these days in my own experience. There are still a few people all over who really love God, but they seem to be very few indeed when compared with the numbers called Christians according the statistics of men.

 

[Heart2Soul]

My first instinct would be to agree, but don't be fooled! It is a fully accredited University, not just a Bible school. They have programs in exercise Physiology, biology, history, chemistry, mathematics, dance, special ed, etc.

They even have a division 1 sports program and a mens basketball team that has done pretty well.

They have a nursing program and a doctorate program in medicine. All graduates are offered jobs in the mission fields they have all over the world.

 

[Brakelite]

Oral Roberts has done more for the Kingdom of God than you or anyone on this forum has. I have seen the power of God operate through him when he was a tent evangelists.
You speak ignorantly not knowing anything about his ministry and the thousands who came to accept Jesus during his time of evangelism and the thousands who received supernatural healing at these tent revivals.
He himself was struck with tuberculosis at age 16 and was dying...his parents took him to a tent revival and he was prayed over and received a supernatural healing. From that time forward he began evangelizing and soon had his own tent ministry. He is known as the major forerunner of the Charismatic movement that began in the 50's.

I am well aware of who Oral Roberts is... Or was. When I first received Jesus in the 70s and joined the AoG Oral Roberts was the bee's knees, along with Kenneth Copeland and a few others, and everyone including myself, had his books and cassette tapes.
I am sure that many people came to know Christ as a result of his ministry.
And I don't know any other university in America where one would expect a study to be done on tongues other than ORU. So. As I said, it's no surprise. Why should you be so offended and defensive calling me ignorant?

 

[Heart2Soul]

I am well aware of who Oral Roberts is... Or was. When I first received Jesus in the 70s and joined the AoG Oral Roberts was the bee's knees, along with Kenneth Copeland and a few others, and everyone including myself, had his books and cassette tapes.
I am sure that many people came to know Christ as a result of his ministry.
And I don't know any other university in America where one would expect a study to be done on tongues other than ORU. So. As I said, it's no surprise. Why should you be so offended and defensive calling me ignorant?

I took it as you were being facetious. Sorry, I apologize.
Ignorant in meaning not well informed or educated on the subject enough to make a statement based on facts...but rather an opinion based on hearsay.

 

[FHII]

It would be interesting to get your scientific take on this item. But it doesn't suggest that it is more important than prayer. At least I don't think it does. For me praying in tongues works two ways - I either pray in English first and then carry on praying in tongues. And then often this leads into singing in tongues. Or sometimes the tongues first which then seems to lead me into understand when I pray in English things which I may not have thought of before.

Ok, well first off I am dealing with a press article and not a study directly. As a scientist, I should not make a comment without reading the research first. More on that shortly.

But there is already a problem in that the title is misleading: its talking about speaking in tongues but the article itself says praying or speaking in tongues. This is a red flag to scientists with integrity.

Second thing is there is no reference given to the study in this post. Perhaps its only a partial quote of a longer article, but if you don't reference it... A scientist won't even bother with it.

I did dig deeper and found a study that delt with such, though I am not sure its the same article or one that simply deals with the same topic.

The world of science is harsh. If you publish something it must be refereed (scrutinized) before being accepted. The journal I looked at seemed to be legit, but may not be accepted by mainstream psychological people.

As a person, I will give Dr. Peterson the benefit of the doubt, but the scientists of the world won't! He is a MD, but they won't care. Thwy will judge him on his methods.

By the way, this Doctor has some skeletons in gia closet. I can overlook them, and science should too... But despite their mask, scientists are human too. They are just hypocrites about it, for the most part.

Even so, I did find a study and briefly read it. It would take me 12 hours or more to do a critical analysis on it. I would have to look at the testing methods first. It appears they mentioned hormone levels.

Well, the research question woul be if this data is different to merely relaxing in your easy chair with a beer, or having sex, or listening to classical music, or praying to Allah, or.... You get my point.


As I sit here, I got a kitty on my lap and its comforting! So... Is speaking in tongues any different from the activities I mentioned? If the data is the same, a scientist will conclude that praying or speaking in tongues is no more effective than good sex or petting a kitty!

Now, that is the scientist in me... I'm just relating the method and reasoning.

 

[Brakelite]

My first instinct would be to agree, but don't be fooled! It is a fully accredited University, not just a Bible school. They have programs in exercise Physiology, biology, history, chemistry, mathematics, dance, special ed, etc.

They even have a division 1 sports program and a mens basketball team that has done pretty well.

My comment wasn't intended to be denigrating. Just a matter of fact.

 

[Brakelite]

I took it as you were being facetious. Sorry, I apologize.
Ignorant in meaning not well informed or educated on the subject enough to make a statement based on facts...but rather an opinion based on hearsay.

Well, that I knew what ORU stood for suggests a certain familiarity. Apology accepted.

 

[FHII]

They have a nursing program and a doctorate program in medicine. All graduates are offered jobs in the mission fields they have all over the world.

Great! Praise God! It makes my point... They are a fully functioning university, not just a religious one, although that is their focus.