FHII
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I understand that Backlit.... I just wanted to make the point.
A NEW TAKE ON AN OLD DEBATE.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
And not withstanding my previous comments regarding ORU, it would be difficult to reject outright the possibility of bias.
FHII
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Yeah... Bias. Its something that scientists reject. With Science data is supposed to be indisputable. So when you talk to a scientist about his or her data and even suggest a bias, they will be offended! But go talk to a rival scientist and see what happens!
That being said, the scientist in me says pay no attention that it came from ORU...I look at it as a fine educational institution that is qualified to so research. But the skeptic in me says...
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The look on your face when you realize why the area between the pews are larger at a Holy Ghost Church.
Not then... not even for a while, but the gift of dancing would be mine and eventually I would dance before the Lord even in the spaces between those pews. What a mighty God we serve!
Mosheli
Active Member
A friend sent this to me.
I personally believe babbling gibberish in unknown language is spiritually dangerous.
I believe that "tongues" of Acts was really more like modern interpreters on TV. I was guided to this by Renton MachLachan's book 'Tongues Revisited' and some other articles, as well as also my own experience & study/research.
Bible says when speaking tongues in public if there is no one to interpret the tongues they should be silent. Otherwise it leads to confusion like the Tower of Babel.
FHII
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Hello. Is there a reason you decided to bless me with such a greeting? A simple "hi there" without any thought, opinion or opposition to my writing following it?
Grailhunter
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FHII
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I agree with you, that people who have sort the gifts of the spirit, like Simon the Scorer, did in Acts 8, do so out of a wrong Heart: -
Acts 8:9-25: - The Sorcerer's Profession of Faith
9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great, 10 to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, "This man is the great power of God." 11 And they heeded him because he had astonished them with his sorceries for a long time. 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. 13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.
The Sorcerer's Sin
14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
20 But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
24 Then Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me."
25 So when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, they returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.
9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great, 10 to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, "This man is the great power of God." 11 And they heeded him because he had astonished them with his sorceries for a long time. 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. 13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.
The Sorcerer's Sin
14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
20 But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
24 Then Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me."
25 So when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, they returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.
NKJV
Also in acts we have this account of people who have tried to work miracles etc. in their own strength: -
Acts 19:11-20: - Miracles Glorify Christ
11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches." 14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?"
16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totalled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.
11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches." 14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?"
16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totalled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.
NKJV
God's wisdom and leading is needed when using the Gifts that we are given in the spirit, but the rang of the gifts of the spirit is not limited to just speaking on tongues, it includes hospitality, generosity, words of knowledge, prophecy etc. just ot name a few gifts of the spirit.
I have seen people who have exercised the gift of healing and the person has been healed for a time, but three months later, when this same person become sick again and was now dying, the pastor's gift of healing was of no avail, he was trying to act then in his own strength, however the gift that he then exercised was the gift of caring for the dying. It was pointed out to this pastor that it was this woman's time to die, and that through her short time of witness to her neighbours, that God's Glory would be seen and have an impact on them, such that some would also come to the Lord because of her.
The gift of wisdom and discernment can be missing among the Saints, but God gives out these gifts and He give them so that the Saints can work and be seen as His Body of believers on the earth.
We should not impede the work of the Spirit that is visible in the saints.
Shalom
You must get past men who do that, even though they may sincerely believe they are working for God. Really, however, I believe that they are as in for the Left hand of God.
Pharaoh was working as the Left hand of God when Moses was asking to the man let God's people go.
I take no notice of them anymore amadeus. I listen to God and trust him to guide me.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Talk about Precious Moments. And some do not share those precious moments. And that is a question; Should they? Can we blame them for not sharing? Whether it be speaking in tongues, or watching those that speak in tongues, or having one of them speak about you, or feeling the warmth of the Holy Spirit as it moves among the congregation. It all can be a very impacting and enthusiastic, and breath taking experience. Then you have the healings and visitations. Precious Moments.....
One time I walked out of a church with a congregation that appeared to be shell shocked, trembling, and stuttering. There was a café that was relocated in a banquet hall, due to a tornado, and a few of us decided to have dinner there because to our amazement it was after 3:00. So we walked in there....a bunch of round tables.....LOL And it is all setup as cafeteria style.
We choose a couple tables and as we sat around the tables, it was quiet at first looking down in our laps....some of us probably praying. One of the ladies that had only been there a couple times, cleared her throat and was attempting to ask, How often did that sort of thing occur at that church? But most of it was stuttering, but we got the jest of it. One of the regulars answered, That it happened quite often, just not at that level.
I am pretty sure that the Holy Spirit touched every single person in that congregation. You could look down a row of pews and it was like a wave at a baseball game as the Holy Spirit touched them and they reacted, taking their breath. And the messages that were given.... interpreted.... was about the strength of, the power of, the Word of God. The power of God that brought that Word to us and that we should setup for communion. And so they did... "crackers and grape juice" and the preacher spoke to us and read the Words from the Bible and as He did, he adlibbed and said, Today this is the Word of God that you are partaking of. In your bodies this Word is Holy. And boy it felt that way. At that service there was no sermon except what the preacher said during communion, which did feel like a Communion with God.
So there are Christians out there that deal with the deafening silence of God. They get none of that, because of that they do not believe in any of that. Can we blame them? Would they believe if more people shared? Some people are not going to share because they are not going to risk someone taking a dump on their precious memories. I have been blessed with a lot of precious memories, and I share some of the ones that show that they don't always happen in church or with the angels playing harps....LOL Be prepared!
I have had all these divine experiences but during them, I was never been told why I am blessed with these. But over the years at different Holy Ghost churches in different cities I have had people speak to me in the spirit and explain why....some of these people did not know me from Adam. One time a friend of mine (a Jew named Blecker) were riding Harleys on the Appalachian Trail and we came acrossed this fieldstone church with a scenic overview. The church was having services. So I circled around and pulled into the church parking lot and threw down my kickstand and took off my helmet.
Blecker was shaking his head because he knew my intent. He said to me, You know it was a Christian vacuum sweeper salesman that ran off with my girlfriend! I laughed. He did not object further and we walked into the Church. Of course people looked, we looked like something from Hell's Angels, full leathers and chaps and cowboy boots. We were walking down the main aisle looking for a seat in the back when this lady out of the blue stood up and pointed at me and said, You shine! Do you know why you shine! We both stopped and stood there and she continued on to tell me something I had heard several times over the years. Once by an Evangelist and his wife at a Glad Tidings church in Springfield, Missouri.
So we eventfully sat down and stayed for the service. Afterwards we talked with the congregation. We were both submariners at that time out of Norfolk, Virginia. They wanted to know about what we did and they thanked us for our service....and Bleaker was a hit because he was a Jew visiting a Christian church. After what the lady had said to me, a few asked if I had a ministry? I told them that I did not have church and that I was more of speaker than a preacher....but I did have a mission, that was my ministry.
So Bleaker and I walk out into the parking lot and stood and enjoyed the view of the mountains and he looks over at me and says...If you are that holy, no more whiskey for you! Laughed.
One time I walked out of a church with a congregation that appeared to be shell shocked, trembling, and stuttering. There was a café that was relocated in a banquet hall, due to a tornado, and a few of us decided to have dinner there because to our amazement it was after 3:00. So we walked in there....a bunch of round tables.....LOL And it is all setup as cafeteria style.
We choose a couple tables and as we sat around the tables, it was quiet at first looking down in our laps....some of us probably praying. One of the ladies that had only been there a couple times, cleared her throat and was attempting to ask, How often did that sort of thing occur at that church? But most of it was stuttering, but we got the jest of it. One of the regulars answered, That it happened quite often, just not at that level.
I am pretty sure that the Holy Spirit touched every single person in that congregation. You could look down a row of pews and it was like a wave at a baseball game as the Holy Spirit touched them and they reacted, taking their breath. And the messages that were given.... interpreted.... was about the strength of, the power of, the Word of God. The power of God that brought that Word to us and that we should setup for communion. And so they did... "crackers and grape juice" and the preacher spoke to us and read the Words from the Bible and as He did, he adlibbed and said, Today this is the Word of God that you are partaking of. In your bodies this Word is Holy. And boy it felt that way. At that service there was no sermon except what the preacher said during communion, which did feel like a Communion with God.
So there are Christians out there that deal with the deafening silence of God. They get none of that, because of that they do not believe in any of that. Can we blame them? Would they believe if more people shared? Some people are not going to share because they are not going to risk someone taking a dump on their precious memories. I have been blessed with a lot of precious memories, and I share some of the ones that show that they don't always happen in church or with the angels playing harps....LOL Be prepared!
I have had all these divine experiences but during them, I was never been told why I am blessed with these. But over the years at different Holy Ghost churches in different cities I have had people speak to me in the spirit and explain why....some of these people did not know me from Adam. One time a friend of mine (a Jew named Blecker) were riding Harleys on the Appalachian Trail and we came acrossed this fieldstone church with a scenic overview. The church was having services. So I circled around and pulled into the church parking lot and threw down my kickstand and took off my helmet.
Blecker was shaking his head because he knew my intent. He said to me, You know it was a Christian vacuum sweeper salesman that ran off with my girlfriend! I laughed. He did not object further and we walked into the Church. Of course people looked, we looked like something from Hell's Angels, full leathers and chaps and cowboy boots. We were walking down the main aisle looking for a seat in the back when this lady out of the blue stood up and pointed at me and said, You shine! Do you know why you shine! We both stopped and stood there and she continued on to tell me something I had heard several times over the years. Once by an Evangelist and his wife at a Glad Tidings church in Springfield, Missouri.
So we eventfully sat down and stayed for the service. Afterwards we talked with the congregation. We were both submariners at that time out of Norfolk, Virginia. They wanted to know about what we did and they thanked us for our service....and Bleaker was a hit because he was a Jew visiting a Christian church. After what the lady had said to me, a few asked if I had a ministry? I told them that I did not have church and that I was more of speaker than a preacher....but I did have a mission, that was my ministry.
So Bleaker and I walk out into the parking lot and stood and enjoyed the view of the mountains and he looks over at me and says...If you are that holy, no more whiskey for you! Laughed.
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Spirit_and_Truth
New Member
I believe in speaking in tongues and do it often. It has been a tremendous help in my prayer life, which then effects all my life.
Good to know. And I hope you don't get put off by some of the stuff unbelievers post on here like I did. But I have repented of it and started to use the gift again.
Spirit_and_Truth
New Member
Until unbelievers have their blinders removed,... i love debating w/ unbelievers and believers, hoping to inspire a love for the truth.
The ones I am talking about don't 'debate' but just condemn anything that they disagree with.
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