A New Transformation is required for the modern Church

[VictoryinJesus]

Most are like the wicked servant who received one talent and hid it in the ground!

Must consider Christ Jesus stood before them giving a parable about the ministration of condemnation (the hard task master)and ushering in the ministration of the Spirit. The least esteemed of men in the parable ...nobody wants to be the wicked one who buried it. Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

As sinners, under sin and death ...burying it is exactly what is instructed to do. Suffering the shame ...put down the unprofitable servant laid up in a napkin. John 12:24-27 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. [25] He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. [26] If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. [27] Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

“that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world”
Luke 19:20-22 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: [21] For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. [22] And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

Taking up what I laid not down...the good shepherd “laid down His life” ...for that one in the parable which lacked. For all who lack. (Profit)
John 10:11-18 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. [12] But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. [13] The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. [17] Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. [18] No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Glad you enjoyed it. :) The article raises up some very god points and is done both faithfully and honestly.
God has His people seeking the way to impact the world for Christ without compromising the truth.

Actually, I found it to be surprisingly spot on. I must say that I don't necessarily trust Christianity Today, so as I read the article, I kept waiting for the author to veer from biblical truth. If he did, I missed it.

What I see is that within us must be an "inner monasticism" whereby one has emptied oneself (or been emptied by the cross) so that a communal life with others is not so difficult, in fact desirable. In that way one can have a family but also a shared life with others who live nearby so as to live as a light to that part of a city or town. The Christian life is a shared kingdom life that is so different from the world..all the while being fully engaged in the world. We are to be peculiar...different. Not living as the world lives.

Rather than emptying ourselves, I see the Christian walk as simply taking up our cross daily and submitting ourselves completely to the Holy Spirit by grace through faith. For me, this involves allowing the Holy Spirit to guide my thoughts and actions throughout the day and night as I live in obedience to Him. The Amplified Bible says that the apostles were "filled with and controlled by the Holy Spirit...."

It's not that the Holy Spirit has to tell me every little thing to do (like brush my teeth, lol), but I seek to be sensitive to His leading at all times. This is how I live for the most part, but I'm not saying that I'm perfect at it. Not by any means! The flesh, which is present in us until we shed our earth suits, has to be dealt with. By His grace, I have to count the flesh (sin nature) as crucified, which is the only effective way to deal with the flesh. That's the main reason Jesus HAD to die and live again--so that we could die to sin and live to righteousness. To be clear, I don't always count my flesh as crucified! It's my desire to do so, but sometimes I fail miserably.

Galatians 5:24-25--Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit.

When we were born again, we exchanged a life based on a list of do's and don't's (the Mosaic law) for a new law--the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" (Rom 8), which involves moment-by-moment submission to and guidance by His Spirit. It's a much higher and better way to live, reflecting the "better Covenant" (Heb 8). And God empowered us to enter into this new life and to live it by His grace, which is His saving and sustaining power.

This is my understanding of the Christian life. It's very simple indeed, but very different from the monastic lifestyle, which I believe seeks a union with Jesus Christ based on certain extra-biblical practices. The truth is that believers already have a union with Christ. He is in us and we are in Him. As I've already said, we experience and live out this union through submission to His Spirit who dwells in us.

 

[Episkopos]

Actually, I found it to be surprisingly spot on. I must say that I don't necessarily trust Christianity Today, so as I read the article, I kept waiting for the author to veer from biblical truth. If he did, I missed it.



Rather than emptying ourselves, I see the Christian walk as simply taking up our cross daily and submitting ourselves completely to the Holy Spirit by grace through faith. For me, this involves allowing the Holy Spirit to guide my thoughts and actions throughout the day and night as I live in obedience to Him. The Amplified Bible says that the apostles were "filled with and controlled by the Holy Spirit...."

It's not that the Holy Spirit has to tell me every little thing to do (like brush my teeth, lol), but I seek to be sensitive to His leading at all times. This is how I live for the most part, but I'm not saying that I'm perfect at it. Not by any means! The flesh, which is present in us until we shed our earth suits, has to be dealt with. By His grace, I have to count the flesh (sin nature) as crucified, which is the only effective way to deal with the flesh. That's the main reason Jesus HAD to die and live again--so that we could die to sin and live to righteousness. To be clear, I don't always count my flesh as crucified! It's my desire to do so, but sometimes I fail miserably.

Galatians 5:24-25--Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit.

When we were born again, we exchanged a life based on a list of do's and don't's (the Mosaic law) for a new law--the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" (Rom 8), which involves moment-by-moment submission to and guidance by His Spirit. It's a much higher and better way to live, reflecting the "better Covenant" (Heb 8). And God empowered us to enter into this new life and to live it by His grace, which is His saving and sustaining power.

This is my understanding of the Christian life. It's very simple indeed, but very different from the monastic lifestyle, which I believe seeks a union with Jesus Christ based on certain extra-biblical practices. The truth is that believers already have a union with Christ. He is in us and we are in Him. As I've already said, we experience and live out this union through submission to His Spirit who dwells in us.

I make the distinction between being LED by the Spirit and being filled with (or walking in the power of ) the Spirit. John was filled with the Spirit on the Lord's day to produce the book of Revelation....but he always was open to the guidance of the Spirit.

And my idea of monasticism is that this is inward...regardless of outward living arrangement. But an inward monasticism does lead to community in the Spirit,,,like we see in Acts 2. We can ask ourselves just how many people are NOT walking in the Spirit based on a lack of evidence to there being Acts 2 type of communities....where the presence of God is palpable in the every day lives of the community.

I believe that is the true purpose of the church...to be an ongoing light to the word. A witness to the presence of the Lord in the midst of His people....24/7.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I make the distinction between being LED by the Spirit and being filled with (or walking in the power of ) the Spirit. John was filled with the Spirit on the Lord's day to produce the book of Revelation....but he always was open to the guidance of the Spirit.

And my idea of monasticism is that this is inward...regardless of outward living arrangement. But an inward monasticism does lead to community in the Spirit,,,like we see in Acts 2. We can ask ourselves just how many people are NOT walking in the Spirit based on a lack of evidence to there being Acts 2 type of communities....where the presence of God is palpable in the every day lives of the community.

I believe that is the true purpose of the church...to be an ongoing light to the word. A witness to the presence of th Lord in the midst of His people....24/7.

I completely agree with you that we need to be filled (living in His power), I would say continually filled, by the Holy Spirit.

 

[ScottA]

I would say that one of the main reasons the gospel is watered down is because of many churches' desire to appeal to popular culture.

Yes, that is true, and the reason dates back to the first century. Jesus made it clear in Revelation that the church for the most part was drifting off the path. Paul then prophesied apostasies, which the church now reaps, for returning to the ways of the world.

 

[ScottA]

And who was the servant's master? Is not this parable and the parable of the Minas talking about the same person, and the answer is not Jesus?

ScottA it seems that you do not understand the Gospel that Jesus Preached nor have you understood his parables.

And you speak as if you have the gifting which I have not seen on display on this forum.

Shalom

No, you are wrong. There is but one Master to God's people, the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No, you are wrong. There is but one Master to God's people, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Really? What is the burden they(in the seats of Moses) would not lift a finger to move? Who are the two masters in you cannot serve both? Condemnation and wrath and death...or Life. Luke 19:22-23 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: [23] Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

That ^above is the same master as the good shepherd who laid down His life for the sheep?
Zechariah 11:15-17
[15] And the Lord said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. [16] For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. [17] Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried (withered)up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

 

[Jay Ross]

No, you are wrong. There is but one Master to God's people, the Lord Jesus Christ.

ScottA by saying that I am wrong are you saying that you have a gifting whatever that may be.

However, you have also confirmed that your understanding of the Parables of the Talents and the Manas is off on the wrong tangent as far as being about Christ. Both Parables are about a want a be king who has no right to the harvest because as the so called wicked Servants states in both parables to his master that he "knew he was a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed."
Also the returning of the Talent and the Minas in the respective parables was in accordance of the Law given to Moses.

If you get both of these parables so wrong, then how can anyone trust that you get what you post right?

 

[ScottA]

Really? What is the burden they(in the seats of Moses) would not lift a finger to move? Who are the two masters in you cannot serve both? Condemnation and wrath and death...or Life. Luke 19:22-23 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: [23] Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

That ^above is the same master as the good shepherd who laid down His life for the sheep?
Zechariah 11:15-17
[15] And the Lord said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. [16] For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. [17] Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried (withered)up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Yes, the good shepherd, He who did not plant, but is the vinedresser.

The Lord does not care about money, Caesar perhaps. That is not at all what the parable is about, but rather about Him entrusting things to His servants.

 

[ScottA]

ScottA by saying that I am wrong are you saying that you have a gifting whatever that may be.

However, you have also confirmed that your understanding of the Parables of the Talents and the Manas is off on the wrong tangent as far as being about Christ. Both Parables are about a want a be king who has no right to the harvest because as the so called wicked Servants states in both parables to his master that he "knew he was a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed."
Also the returning of the Talent and the Minas in the respective parables was in accordance of the Law given to Moses.

If you get both of these parables so wrong, then how can anyone trust that you get what you post right?

You apparently are the one who does not understand the parables:

Jesus is not the one who planted, He is the vinedresser. It is the Father who planted.

And thinking that they are about money, you render to Caesar.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, the good shepherd, He who did not plant, but is the vinedresser.

The Lord does not care about money, Caesar perhaps. That is not at all what the parable is about, but rather about Him entrusting things to His servants.

The parable is about the ministration of condemnation... how must one bet set free from condemnation unto death?

 

[ScottA]

The parable is about the ministration of condemnation... how must one bet set free from condemnation unto death?

Why...and where do you get that from?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why...and where do you get that from?

How must one be set free from condemnation unto death?

 

[ScottA]

How must one be set free from condemnation unto death?

By believing in Christ.

But, what is your point, and how does that apply to the discussion?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

By believing in Christ.

But, what is your point, and how does that apply to the discussion?

The point is the parable is the ministration of death. Was simply asking you what must happen to the unprofitable servant under the ministration of death? That’s all...what is to be done to that which is unprofitable?

John 12:24-25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. [25] He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

 

[ScottA]

The point is the parable is the ministration of death. Was simply asking you what must happen to the unprofitable servant under the ministration of death? That’s all...what is to be done to that which is unprofitable?

John 12:24-25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. [25] He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Oh, I see.

That is quite a stretch to draw that out of the principles of the parable, but yes, I get you point. And yes, the flesh profits nothing. Thus, the wicked servant saves his life in the world for a time, but looses eternal life.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Oh, I see.

That is quite a stretch to draw that out of the principles of the parable, but yes, I get you point. And yes, the flesh profits nothing. Thus, the wicked servant saves his life in the world for a time, but looses eternal life.

Wasn’t exactly what was meant but ok. Hebrews 7:16-19 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. [17] For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. [18] For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. [19] For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did ; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

 

[Jay Ross]

You apparently are the one who does not understand the parables:

Jesus is not the one who planted, He is the vinedresser. It is the Father who planted.

And thinking that they are about money, you render to Caesar.

ScottA. How does the man/servants master respond to his wicked servant? By ageing with him. It is recorded in both parables if you actually care to understand what the parables are about.

Matthew 25:24-28: - 24 "Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.'

26 "But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

Luke 19:20-23: - 20 "Then another came, saying, 'Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.' 22 And he said to him, 'Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?'​

Oh the next question is who goes away for a time and has no influence over the people during that time? The answer is Satan.

In the Luke Minas parable: -

• there is a reference by Christ to the Israelites repenting and saying they no longer want their present master to rule over them by sending a delegation to make this statement after their master goes away for a time into the Bottomless pit. Luke 19:14: - But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We will not have this man to reign over us.' And
  
• at the return of the master in the parable he then askes for the live of those who did not want the master to rule over them. Luke 19:27: - 'But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.' Which is described in Revelation 12.

ScottA, by you own rebuttals you have demonstrated to the readers of this forum that it is you who does not have the any understanding.

What more can I present to convince you of your delusions.

 

[ScottA]

ScottA. How does the man/servants master respond to his wicked servant? By ageing with him. It is recorded in both parables if you actually care to understand what the parables are about.

Matthew 25:24-28: - 24 "Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.'

26 "But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

Luke 19:20-23: - 20 "Then another came, saying, 'Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.' 22 And he said to him, 'Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?'​

Oh the next question is who goes away for a time and has no influence over the people during that time? The answer is Satan.

In the Luke Minas parable: -

• there is a reference by Christ to the Israelites repenting and saying they no longer want their present master to rule over them by sending a delegation to make this statement after their master goes away for a time into the Bottomless pit. Luke 19:14: - But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We will not have this man to reign over us.' And
  
• at the return of the master in the parable he then askes for the live of those who did not want the master to rule over them. Luke 19:27: - 'But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.' Which is described in Revelation 12.

ScottA, by you own rebuttals you have demonstrated to the readers of this forum that it is you who does not have the any understanding.

What more can I present to convince you of your delusions.

The delusion is all yours...even calling the Lord "Satan." How can you be so blind?

The parables are about "the kingdom of heaven", those who "enter in", and "the joy of the Lord" withheld from the wicked.

You should also have read Matthew 25:14-23. Perhaps "the readers of this forum" will read it and thereby test what spirit is in you.

 

[Jay Ross]

The delusion is all yours...even calling the Lord "Satan." How can you be so blind?

The parables are about "the kingdom of heaven", those who "enter in", and "the joy of the Lord" withheld from the wicked.

You should also have read Matthew 25:14-23. Perhaps "the readers of this forum" will read it and thereby test what spirit is in you.

Sorry, ScottA, the Parables are about Satan's influence through his faithful servants during the first 1,000 years of the Millennium Age when Satan is locked up in the Bottomless Pit, along with the other wicked fallen heavenly hosts and the kings and armies of the heathen gentiles that are judged at Armageddon at the end of this present age.

Jesus in both Matthew and Luke is telling us what the Everlasting Kingdom of God will be like during the first 1,000 years after its establishment.

ScottA, you are spiritualising the Bible so much, such that you are make everything about Christ, but the reality is that not everything recorded in the scriptures is about Christ.

Does Christ reap where he/God has not sown. This description of the lead character in both parables points directly at Satan. If you believe otherwise, you are missing the context of why both parable were told.

Shalom

PS: - Perhaps "the readers of this forum" will read Matthew 25:14-30 and Luke 19:11-27 and thereby test what spirit is in both of us.