A play on words

[mjrhealth]

Thjis is what I read in another post, but i wanst going to confuse teh OP who is struggling as it is.

. Tell Him that you love Him and you do not want to crucify Him afresh with yet another round of sinful indulgenc

Does teh writer evn know what it is He is speaking of,

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It is so convenient for us to leave out bits to try convince others of a lie. That quote was all about those who have rejected Chirst after knowing Him, not for us who simply struggle with our daily walk. ( mind you I dare say there would not be too many men upon this earth who dont strruggle with such things)

CHrist died once for us He will never do it again for anyone

And for the you guy who wrote teh original think on this,

David who walked with God and was called a man after God own heart,

Fought with teh Phillistend while Saul was persuing Him,
Counted the people when God Himself directed David not too
He sent a man to the front line to die so He could have His wife,

Yet God still today keeps His promise with David

Or as Paul said

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


Or this

2Co 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

His Grace is sufficent for me is it not for you??

In All His Love

 

[Barrd]

You do know that Jesus Christ was crucified, right?
Do you have any idea what that means?
He allowed Himself to be taken and killed in this horribly cruel way because of His great love for us. He took the punishment we deserve.
And now you seem to think that, since He paid for your sin, you might just as well get His money's worth.

Carnal Christianity.

What a despicable doctrine.

 

[mjrhealth]

Thank you Bard for reminding me. I had forgotte. many years a go, in a vision I was taken back to His crucifxion, and I found myself, Kneeling at His right Hand looking into His face down His rihgt Arm, the cross just slightly raised so I could see His smiling face. Even there with teh crown of thorns on His head, bare chested, he loooked at me with Love in His eyes, and said to me, " David I did this for you".

So you see Bard, I know what jesus did for me, I know his suffering and His pain, I know the weight He bore upon Hid shoulders for "all" of mankind, sush a great burden for one who is perfect to carry for those who are imperfect. Even going to the cross knowing that many will not accept the work that He did,

See that is why I have accepted His " free" gift of grace. that is why I have "put on the righteousness " of Christ, that is why God can look upon me "sinless" because of His rightousness, and that is why the LAW is not mine.

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,

And that Bard is why I have no sin.

Rom_5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

And that is why the law is for the sinners,

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Because they have denied His grace, rejected his counsel, having not put on His righteousness, and so rejecting the New wine, the Holy Spirit" for they prefer the old. " teh Law.

Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.


For as spoken at Penetecost.

Act_2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

That is what they had, the New wine, the Holy Spirit.

You cant convert the converetd. I belong to Jesus, you cant change that.

In all His Love

 

[mjrhealth]

I know who you really belong to, David...even if you don't.

Well that is an arguemnet you can have with God.

Im still waiting for the trap to spring on poor apt.

Oh yes and still looking for a christian that believes God. Just one.

 

[lforrest]

Well that is an arguemnet you can have with God.

Im still waiting for the trap to spring on poor apt.

Oh yes and still looking for a christian that believes God. Just one.

You are a Christian, don't you believe God? Why look at others?

Also why do Christians shoot their wounded? There is no need to call into question David's allegiance to Christ based on these recent posts.

Anyways... regarding the topic at hand that post must have been intended to draw on the power of the Holy Spirit to teach you.
It seems geared to lead the listener to Heb 6:4-6 by the wording. Then you are supposed to think about Heb 6:4-6 in the context of the discussion and conclude that the poster was making an implied statement against deliberate sin.

As for me I believe God, and I also believe what the bible says. I do not always believe man's interpretation, or in my own ability to understand every word in the bible on a whim. But I'm confident that if I struggled in prayer and fasting God would reveal the meaning of any given scripture.

 

[mjrhealth]

As for me I believe God, and I also believe what the bible says. I do not always believe man's interpretation, or in my own ability to understand every word in the bible on a whim. But I'm confident that if I struggled in prayer and fasting God would reveal the meaning of any given scripture.

Im glad, wish there where more lik you.

By the way I think you got your posts mixed up.

In all His love

 

[ATP]

You do know that Jesus Christ was crucified, right?
Do you have any idea what that means?
He allowed Himself to be taken and killed in this horribly cruel way because of His great love for us. He took the punishment we deserve.
And now you seem to think that, since He paid for your sin, you might just as well get His money's worth.

Carnal Christianity.

What a despicable doctrine.

We who believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints in no way profess a dead faith, nor are we antinomians...yet when it comes to soteriology we do believe we are saved through the belief of the death of Jesus Christ for our sins and His resurrection. This is the entirety of the gospel for salvation.

What we believe about works is it is the natural progression and out working of being born again. These works do nothing to secure or maintain our salvation. These works are accredited to God as working in and through us.

We do not believe that sin will disqualify any born again believer for the free gift of salvation. All sin is deliberate, yet repentance is the natural working of God in us through the conviction He places on us. We believe as His children we are chastised but not condemned.

 

[Barrd]

You are a Christian, don't you believe God? Why look at others?

Also why do Christians shoot their wounded? There is no need to call into question David's allegiance to Christ based on these recent posts.

Anyways... regarding the topic at hand that post must have been intended to draw on the power of the Holy Spirit to teach you.
It seems geared to lead the listener to Heb 6:4-6 by the wording. Then you are supposed to think about Heb 6:4-6 in the context of the discussion and conclude that the poster was making an implied statement against deliberate sin.

As for me I believe God, and I also believe what the bible says. I do not always believe man's interpretation, or in my own ability to understand every word in the bible on a whim. But I'm confident that if I struggled in prayer and fasting God would reveal the meaning of any given scripture.

You should know that what I said to David was not based only on his post here. He knows what I'm talking about.
I'm not trying to "shoot the wounded"....but rather convince him that he needs the Physician.

I also believe what the Bible says.
I believe that willfull, deliberate sin will separate one from the God Who loves him. Yes, we all sin....that is why we all...yes, even David...need to repent.
This notion that all one needs to do is say a few pretty words, and hey, presto....from then on he can do whatever he likes, because he is saved, halelujah is a false doctrine

 

[Barrd]

We who believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints in no way profess a dead faith, nor are we antinomians...yet when it comes to soteriology we do believe we are saved through the belief of the death of Jesus Christ for our sins and His resurrection. This is the entirety of the gospel for salvation.

What we believe about works is it is the natural progression and out working of being born again. These works do nothing to secure or maintain our salvation. These works are accredited to God as working in and through us.

We do not believe that sin will disqualify any born again believer for the free gift of salvation. All sin is deliberate, yet repentance is the natural working of God in us through the conviction He places on us. We believe as His children we are chastised but not condemned.

Doctrine of Perserverance....
Am I right in supposing that perserverance means that there is some action required on the part of the saints?
Repentance? Obedience?
Because that I can agree with.
"Do nothing faith".....not so much.

 

[ATP]

Doctrine of Perserverance....
Am I right in supposing that perserverance means that there is some action required on the part of the saints?
Repentance? Obedience?
Because that I can agree with.
"Do nothing faith".....not so much.

We believe that repentance and obedience brings crowns and rewards in heaven, not a loss or gain of salvation.

 

[Barrd]

We believe that repentance and obedience brings crowns and rewards in heaven, not a loss or gain of salvation.

If that were true, it seems to me Jesus would say so.
But He didn't.
He said that he that endures to the end shall be saved....He did not say that he that endures to the end shall win a crown.
Why do you suppose He put it that way if He didn't mean it that way?

 

[ATP]

If that were true, it seems to me Jesus would say so.
But He didn't.

John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

 

[ATP]

He said that he that endures to the end shall be saved....He did not say that he that endures to the end shall win a crown.

1 - CROWN 1 - CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS— LOVED THE LORD'S APPEARING - 2 Tim 4:8
2 - CROWN 2 - INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN— DISCIPLINED BODIES / SELF-CONTROL - 1 Cor 9:25-27
3 - CROWN 3 - CROWN OF LIFE— ENDURED PATIENTLY THRU TRIALS - James 1:12, Rev 2:10
4 - CROWN 4 - CROWN OF GLORY— GODLY LEADERS WHO WERE EXAMPLES TO FLOCK - 1 Pet 5:2-4
5 - CROWN 5 - CROWN OF REJOICING— SOUL WINNERS CROWN - 1 Thess 2:19, Dan 12:3

1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Phil 3:12-14 NIV Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Col 2:18 NIV Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.

Matt 5:12 NIV Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matt 6:20 NIV But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

1 Thess 2:19 NIV For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you?

2 Tim 2:5 NIV Similarly, if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the victor's crown unless he competes according to the rules.

2 John 1:8-11 NIV Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

Rev 2:10 NIV Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

Rev 3:11 NIV I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

Rev 11:18 NIV The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

Rev 22:12 NIV “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

 

[ATP]

He said that he that endures to the end shall be saved....

Matt 24:13 NIV is comparing believers to false prophets. Read Matt 24:4-13 NIV in its full context.

 

[Barrd]

1 - CROWN 1 - CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS— LOVED THE LORD'S APPEARING - 2 Tim 4:8
2 - CROWN 2 - INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN— DISCIPLINED BODIES / SELF-CONTROL - 1 Cor 9:25-27
3 - CROWN 3 - CROWN OF LIFE— ENDURED PATIENTLY THRU TRIALS - James 1:12, Rev 2:10
4 - CROWN 4 - CROWN OF GLORY— GODLY LEADERS WHO WERE EXAMPLES TO FLOCK - 1 Pet 5:2-4
5 - CROWN 5 - CROWN OF REJOICING— SOUL WINNERS CROWN - 1 Thess 2:19, Dan 12:3

1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Phil 3:12-14 NIV Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Col 2:18 NIV Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.

Matt 5:12 NIV Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matt 6:20 NIV But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

1 Thess 2:19 NIV For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you?

2 Tim 2:5 NIV Similarly, if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the victor's crown unless he competes according to the rules.

2 John 1:8-11 NIV Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

Rev 2:10 NIV Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

Rev 3:11 NIV I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

Rev 11:18 NIV The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

Rev 22:12 NIV “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

Well, I'll tell you a little secret.
I think that just being with Jesus is reward enough.
And I very strongly suspect that this talk of crowns and rewards is mostly figurative.
For instance, when Jesus taught us to keep our treasure in heaven, He certainly wasn't talking about silver and gold, or even precious gems.
But you knew that, right?

 

[ATP]

Well, I'll tell you a little secret.
I think that just being with Jesus is reward enough.
And I very strongly suspect that this talk of crowns and rewards is mostly figurative.
For instance, when Jesus taught us to keep our treasure in heaven, He certainly wasn't talking about silver and gold, or even precious gems.
But you knew that, right?

Read post 15.

 

[Barrd]

Read post 15.

Jesus only used the term "crown" once, and that is in the Book of Revelation:

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

I believe this reference is figurative. The "crown of life" here referred to is the gift of eternal life.

All the rest of the references to "crowns" come from Paul...and they are also figurative.

Honestly, the reward of eternal life with the Lord in that special place He has prepared for us is reward enough. What more could we possibly want?
This seeking after crowns seems to me to be a bit....well, greedy is the best term I can think of.

 

[ATP]

This seeking after crowns seems to me to be a bit....well, greedy is the best term I can think of.

Loving the Lord's appearing with disciplined bodies, enduring patiently through trials while being a godly leader to the flock and winning souls to heaven is being greedy? Barrd, let's focus on one thing at a time. Do you believe persecution and endurance are related?

 

[Barrd]

Loving the Lord's appearing with disciplined bodies, enduring patiently through trials while being a godly leader to the flock and winning souls to heaven is being greedy? Barrd, let's focus on one thing at a time. Do you believe persecution and endurance are related?

Expecting to be "rewarded" for it, over and above the extreme privilege of being allowed to live forever in God's magnificent Paradise...yes, that is greedy. Heaven is not enough for you, you expect crowns, as well?
Do I believe persecution and endurance are related? Yes I believe that persecution and endurance are related. But here in the United States, is anyone being persecuted?
True, our faith is not very popular these days...but persecuted? No.

 

[ATP]

Expecting to be "rewarded" for it, over and above the extreme privilege of being allowed to live forever in God's magnificent Paradise...yes, that is greedy. Heaven is not enough for you, you expect crowns, as well?

God is telling us we will be rewarded. Doing good for God's kingdom is not greedy.

Do I believe persecution and endurance are related? Yes I believe that persecution and endurance are related. But here in the United States, is anyone being persecuted?

Those who are born again will endure to the end because they have the root of salvation and are not filled with dead mans bones.

Matt 13:21 NIV But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.
Matt 24:9 NIV “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
1 Cor 4:12 NIV We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;