A proof that the 1000 year reign of Christ with His people is in the heavenly throne room, not the earth

[Scott Downey]

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God,

who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.

Who sits on these thrones?
It is His people, to those who overcome, Christ says about them and more also, but here it is about reigning with Christ in heaven.
Think about it, where is God's throne? It is in heaven, and where is Christ's throne? Well it is also in heaven.
Christ is seated on His throne at the right hand of God in heaven, not on the earth

So, these Revelation 20 scriptures must of necessity mean this reigning with Christ takes place in the heavens, not on the earth for 1000 years.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

 

[Davidpt]

If this poster in the OP that has me on ignore was actually interpreting Scripture with Scripture pertaining to Revelation 3:21, he would have to admit that it proves Premil, not Amil.

And here is how.

To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

2 thrones in view, obviously. Otherwise, that would mean overcomers are also granted to sit with the Father in the Father's throne, something only Jesus is worthy of, and absolutely no one else, period. Surely, not one single person would disagree with that. Or if they do, all I can say is--Wow, you have made yourself equal to Christ, you have made yourself God. That aside. Therefore, it demands 2 thrones are in view here. It is then simply a matter of determining when Jesus sits in His own throne, not His Father's throne.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

BTW, we are looking at the thousand year reign in question right here in Matthew 19:28 , it is staring at us in our face. And the following then shows the beginning of it.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Obviously, per Revelation 3:21 and this--My throne--well here it is plain as day, and equally plain as day He doesn't sit upon until this happens first---When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him

But let's just ignore everything that proves Premil, thus disproves Amil, and keep on insisting Amil is true Premil isn't.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If this poster in the OP that has me on ignore

He has me on ignore, too. He's very sensitive and easily offended. He seems to think this is a place where no one is supposed to disagree with anything he says.

was actually interpreting Scripture with Scripture pertaining to Revelation 3:21, he would have to admit that it proves Premil, not Amil.

Why is it that you get upset when I talk confidently like this because you think it supposedly means that I'm saying I have all the answers and am never wrong? So, it's okay for you to speak confidently about your view and that doesn't mean you think you have all the answers, but it's not okay for me to do that? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

And here is how.

To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

2 thrones in view, obviously. Otherwise, that would mean overcomers are also granted to sit with the Father in the Father's throne, something only Jesus is worthy of, and absolutely no one else, period. Surely, not one single person would disagree with that. Or if they do, all I can say is--Wow, you have made yourself equal to Christ, you have made yourself God. That aside. Therefore, it demands 2 thrones are in view here. It is then simply a matter of determining when Jesus sits in His own throne, not His Father's throne.

It's not talking about literal thrones. You are thinking too literally, so that's why you don't see that the Father's throne and Jesus's throne are the same throne. Remember, Jesus said this:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

If you are on Jesus's throne then you are also on the Father's throne because they are one. You should not think of the Father and Son the same way you would think of an earthly father and son and you should not think of their throne in earthly terms.

Thrones, in a spiritual sense, refer to authority and power.

Heaven is the Father's throne and the earth is His footstool.

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

After His resurrection, heaven became Jesus's throne as well. It's just one throne and it's heaven.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

How much more power and authority can Jesus have than all power and authority in heaven and earth? It's not possible. So, after His resurrection, heaven became His throne and earth His footstool along with the Father. Jesus being at the right hand of the Father in heaven means He currently has the same power and authority as the Father. Only after He comes and delivers His kingdom to the Father will He then be subject to the Father (1 Cor 15:22-28), but to no one else.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

BTW, we are looking at the thousand year reign in question right here in Matthew 19:28 , it is staring at us in our face.

How do you figure that? How does "judging" equate to ruling for a thousand years? Do you see the judgment in Matthew 25:31-46 as being the same as ruling for a long period of time?

And the following then shows the beginning of it.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Where is there any hint in Matthew 25:31-46 of a thousand year reign beginning at that time? What I see in that passage occurring at that time is some inheriting "eternal life" in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world (Matt 25:34,46) and the rest being "cast into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" for "everlasting punishment" (Matt 25:41,46). How does anything Jesus said in that passage relate to reigning for a thousand years?

Obviously, per Revelation 3:21 and this--My throne--well here it is plain as day, and equally plain as day He doesn't sit upon until this happens first---When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him

But let's just ignore everything that proves Premil, thus disproves Amil, and keep on insisting Amil is true Premil isn't.

Scripture is very clear that He sits on His throne of glory now because His throne is heaven itself and all power in heaven was given to Him after His resurrection (Matt 28:18, Eph 1:19-23). So, Matthew 25:31-46 does not say that He will have never previously sat on His throne of glory before that. Again, it's not a literal throne. His throne of glory is heaven and He reigns on it now since He has all power in heaven. What Matthew 25:31-46 is about is not that He doesn't yet sit on His throne of glory, which relates to Him having all power in heaven and earth with heaven as His throne and earth as His footstool. It just means He hasn't yet judged the world while having that power and authority, but will do so when He comes again.

 

[Marty fox]

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God,

who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.

Who sits on these thrones?
It is His people, to those who overcome, Christ says about them and more also, but here it is about reigning with Christ in heaven.
Think about it, where is God's throne? It is in heaven, and where is Christ's throne? Well it is also in heaven.
Christ is seated on His throne at the right hand of God in heaven, not on the earth

So, these Revelation 20 scriptures must of necessity mean this reigning with Christ takes place in the heavens, not on the earth for 1000 years.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

But Paul teaches us that while we are alive on the earth we are also currently seated with Jesus in heaven

Ephesians 2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

 

[Scott Downey]

But Paul teaches us that while we are alive on the earth we are also currently seated with Jesus in heaven

Ephesians 2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Yes, this reign in heaven is ongoing today, not in the future only. My point is this scripture has been used as evidence for a future reign only on the earth of a thousand years.

Christians will reign on the earth, but it will be the new earth Christians will inherit, an earth where only righteousness will be dwelling, and God will dwell with man with the New Jerusalem descending from Heaven. There will not be any Satanic rebellion or decieving of the nations. The whole reigning on the old earth of Christ is one of those Christian myths.

 

[Scott Downey]

When Christ returns, this happens immediately, sudden destruction, and the earth is gone.
His return means our salvation and the judging of the world in righteousness by the man God has appointed, Jesus Christ.
********************************
2 Peter 3

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

***************************************************
Hebrews 9

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The first time Christ came, was as an offering for sin, the second time to save us from the wrath of God on this world, which is that sudden destruction and the judgment that Paul described in Acts 17. Notice this warning of coming judgment is an important message to the unbelieving world.
***********************************************************************
Acts 17

21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)

22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

33 So Paul departed from among them.

34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

 

[Scott Downey]

By necessity, no posting can be exhaustive. People won't read long posts. And you can only flood out so many ideas at any one time.
Posts are not meant to be an exhaustive commentary with every possible detail mentioned, if you want full explanations, study the bible yourself.

 

[ewq1938]

The Millenium, the "thousand years", is on Earth because Rev 19 says the reign is over the nations with a rod of iron and the nations are on the Earth. There are no unsaved nations in heaven or the throne room. Rev 5 also speaks of a reign on Earth, matching the reign over the Earthly nations.

Even in Amill the Millennium is on Earth, with living saints reigning here while Christ reigns from heaven. That still is a Earthly reign.

 

[ewq1938]

When Christ returns, this happens immediately, sudden destruction, and the earth is gone.

Nope. Not one second coming passage shows anything of the sort. Christ comes with a symbolic sword and kills an army during the second coming in Rev 19. There is no global slaughter and the text promises a rule over the nations, written in the future tense proving there is a reign over the nations AFTER Armageddon. That disproves the unscriptural concept of a second coming global slaughter.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

https://www.blueletterbible .org/kjv/rev/19/15/t_conc_1186015

https://biblehub .com/interlinear/revelation/19-15.htm

(remove the spaces before .com and .org in the two links)


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves some mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.

 

[Marilyn C]

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God,

who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.

Who sits on these thrones?
It is His people, to those who overcome, Christ says about them and more also, but here it is about reigning with Christ in heaven.
Think about it, where is God's throne? It is in heaven, and where is Christ's throne? Well it is also in heaven.
Christ is seated on His throne at the right hand of God in heaven, not on the earth

So, these Revelation 20 scriptures must of necessity mean this reigning with Christ takes place in the heavens, not on the earth for 1000 years.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

I agree.

 

[Scott Downey]

I agree.

1 Corinthians 6:3
Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

Angels are celestial beings, not from the earth. Interesting to think on.

 

[rwb]

Yes, this reign in heaven is ongoing today, not in the future only. My point is this scripture has been used as evidence for a future reign only on the earth of a thousand years.

Christians will reign on the earth, but it will be the new earth Christians will inherit, an earth where only righteousness will be dwelling, and God will dwell with man with the New Jerusalem descending from Heaven. There will not be any Satanic rebellion or decieving of the nations. The whole reigning on the old earth of Christ is one of those Christian myths.

It's being stuck in the physical state of man of earth, and the inability to understand the man living and reigning with Christ is through spirit that keeps some from understanding how faithful saints live and reign with Christ while physically alive by the power of the Holy Spirit in us. And since we HAVE (not shall have) everlasting life the saints continue to live and reign with Christ a living spiritual body after physical death in heaven without human form. This is why Scripture tells us that in both life and after death faithful saints are with the Lord.

 

[rwb]

But Paul teaches us that while we are alive on the earth we are also currently seated with Jesus in heaven

Ephesians 2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Exactly! Faithful saints are identified by the inward (spirit) man, not our physical flesh. So, whether alive or physically dead, we, living souls, saints of God, shall always be living and reigning with Christ. Death of our flesh cannot keep us from the Lord God in heaven.

 

[Marty fox]

Yes, this reign in heaven is ongoing today, not in the future only. My point is this scripture has been used as evidence for a future reign only on the earth of a thousand years.

Christians will reign on the earth, but it will be the new earth Christians will inherit, an earth where only righteousness will be dwelling, and God will dwell with man with the New Jerusalem descending from Heaven. There will not be any Satanic rebellion or decieving of the nations. The whole reigning on the old earth of Christ is one of those Christian myths.

I believe that we spiritually reign now in heaven and on the current world. This below is a post that I previously wrote

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is one of the most controversial verses in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future event because they believe that it's on the resurrection day. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Here below are the three texts.

Ephesians 2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In the verses above Paul states that we were already made alive, raised up and seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Once again Paul states that we have already been raised up with Christ.

Romans 5:17
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Finally in the verse above Paul states that we reign in life through Jesus.

All of these verses were a current reality while alive in the physical body almost two thousand years ago. If it was a reality back, then it is still a reality today.

Paul ties three events directly to Revelation 20:4 "that we have been made alive", "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms" and that "we reign (in life) through Jesus".

Why do so many Christians not accept this even though Paul declares it? Because they are focused on it being physical not spiritual. They focus on the physical because it mentions saints that were beheaded by the beast and the thousand years.

But let's let scripture interpret scripture. Paul teaches that its spiritual and what John is saying in Revelation 20:4 is that even though the saints are beheaded they still live and reign spiritually the soul doesn't die with the body. It's a promise even though you may die for Jesus you will still live and reign spiritually. The beast can kill the body but not the soul.

Thus, according to Paul we reign in life now and have been for almost two thousand years we are not limited to a literal thousand years God has a better longer plan.

 

[Davidpt]

He has me on ignore, too. He's very sensitive and easily offended. He seems to think this is a place where no one is supposed to disagree with anything he says.


Why is it that you get upset when I talk confidently like this because you think it supposedly means that I'm saying I have all the answers and am never wrong? So, it's okay for you to speak confidently about your view and that doesn't mean you think you have all the answers, but it's not okay for me to do that? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

I don't get upset about it, I don't recall it ever making me angry. I just don't see it being reasonable that any one person can always be right about everything and never be wrong about anything. As to me, there are numerous things I haven't even fully made up my mind about one way or the other.

But I am convinced I'm right about the things that are plainly obvious though, such as Revelation 3:21 supports Premil not Amil. Jesus doesn't even sit in His own throne until He returns first. Jesus makes it clear that those that over come, He will grant to sit with Him in His throne, not His Father's throne. No doubt about it, and I think the OP even admits it, that Revelation 3:21 is connected with reigning with Christ a thousand years. And I fully agree it is. Except this part proves it is future not a present reality---To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne

Look what rest of that verse says---as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Which came first? Jesus overcame then sat down with His Father in His Father's throne? Or, Jesus already sat down with His Father in His Father's throne before he even overcame first? It is not reasonable that Jesus had to do it one way and we get to do it another way, the complete opposite of the way He did it. Where the former applies to the way He did it, and the latter applies to the way we do it. Jesus already plainly tells us the correct order. After all, He did say this--as I also--which tells us the way we do it is the way He did it. He overcame first, then was later rewarded with sitting in His Father's throne. We overcome first then are later rewarded with sitting with Jesus in His throne.

That we sit with Christ in His throne before we have even overcome first is not reasonable. Keeping in mind that you fully agree there is such a thing as falling away after having been saved, thus NOSAS. Therefore, one can't be said to have overcome until they do that all the way up unto their death, or all the way up unto Christ returns. Whichever one might come first in their case.

 

[Davidpt]

I agree.

You are now Amil and no longer Premil? The OP is arguing Amil.

 

[Davidpt]

I believe that we spiritually reign now in heaven and on the current world. This below is a post that I previously wrote

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is one of the most controversial verses in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future event because they believe that it's on the resurrection day. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Here below are the three texts.

Ephesians 2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In the verses above Paul states that we were already made alive, raised up and seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Once again Paul states that we have already been raised up with Christ.

Romans 5:17
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Finally in the verse above Paul states that we reign in life through Jesus.

All of these verses were a current reality while alive in the physical body almost two thousand years ago. If it was a reality back, then it is still a reality today.

Paul ties three events directly to Revelation 20:4 "that we have been made alive", "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms" and that "we reign (in life) through Jesus".

Why do so many Christians not accept this even though Paul declares it? Because they are focused on it being physical not spiritual. They focus on the physical because it mentions saints that were beheaded by the beast and the thousand years.

But let's let scripture interpret scripture. Paul teaches that its spiritual and what John is saying in Revelation 20:4 is that even though the saints are beheaded they still live and reign spiritually the soul doesn't die with the body. It's a promise even though you may die for Jesus you will still live and reign spiritually. The beast can kill the body but not the soul.

Thus, according to Paul we reign in life now and have been for almost two thousand years we are not limited to a literal thousand years God has a better longer plan.

Now you need to show how all that doesn't contradict Revelation 3:21, the fact that verse teaches, in light of Matthew 25:31, for instance, that overcomers don't sit with Christ in Christ's throne until He returns first.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't get upset about it, I don't recall it ever making me angry.

You sure come across that way when you complain about it so often. It clearly bothers you.

I just don't see it being reasonable that any one person can always be right about everything and never be wrong about anything.

Do you not come across that way yourself when you frequently refer to things that you believe as being "undeniable" or "undeniably true"? Did you not see my post where I told you that I've changed my view on at least a couple things not long ago? I actually just changed my view in relation to part of the parable of the wheat and tares. I formerly thought it was saying that the tares being gathered out of His kingdom was referring to His kingdom in the sense of the world (represented by the field) being His kingdom because it says it is "His field". But, I realized that it doesn't mean that since it contrasts the wheat as being the children of the kingdom and the tares as being the children of the wicked one, so all Matthew 13:41 is saying is that the tares (children of the wicked one) are separated from the wheat (children of His kingdom) at the end of the age just like in the similar parable of the fishing net where it talks about the wicked being separated from the righteous at the end of the age.

As to me, there are numerous things I haven't even fully made up my mind about one way or the other.

I have not made my mind up about literally everything, so get that out of your mind. But, I have studied end times doctrine for a long time now. Don't you think we can make up our minds about some of these things after studying them for a long time? Why not? I guess I have made up my mind about more things than you have, but so what? It doesn't mean I think I have all the answers or that my mind is fully made up about everything. It's not.

But I am convinced I'm right about the things that are plainly obvious though, such as Revelation 3:21 supports Premil not Amil.

That's still your opinion, though. You are the one who makes claims that things you say are facts or "undeniably true", not me. I have strong opinions on certain things, obviously, but I never claim my opinions are facts or "undeniably true" unless it's something that I think all Christians should understand and believe. So, I would say that about Christ having died and rose again. I would call that undeniably true even if, technically, that is my opinion. But, from a Christian perspective, we should all agree that it's true.

Jesus doesn't even sit in His own throne until He returns first.

What evidence do you have to support that? Do you know that the Father's throne is heaven itself (Isaiah 66:1)? That is because He has all authority in heaven. Well, guess what? The Father gave Jesus all authority in heaven after His resurrection (Matthew 28:18). So, the Father's throne is also the Son's throne. It's one throne that they share. You should not try to think of this in terms of earthly thrones where only one person can be on one throne at a time.

Jesus makes it clear that those that over come, He will grant to sit with Him in His throne, not His Father's throne.

Where does He say His throne is not also the Father's throne? That is your assumption. You are not thinking of the throne in the right way. You're thinking of Jesus literally sitting on a throne. Can the Father literally sit on a throne? No. It's not about that. It's about His authority. The Father's throne is heaven itself and that represents His authority over all of heaven. But, He gave that same authority to His Son after His resurrection (Matt 28:18).

No doubt about it,

There you go again. "No doubt about it", you say. Sure, in your mind. Not mine.

and I think the OP even admits it, that Revelation 3:21 is connected with reigning with Christ a thousand years. And I fully agree it is.

I can't recall offhand if he referenced that verse there, but since he is an Amil he would have had to understand that in the sense of somone overcoming and then their soul going to heaven to reign with Christ there.

But, in my view, that is talking about judging the nations (ethnos), not ruling over them for a thousand years. I relate that verse to this passage...

1 Corinthians 6:1 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Except this part proves it is future not a present reality---To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne

Look what rest of that verse says---as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Which came first? Jesus overcame then sat down with His Father in His Father's throne? Or, Jesus already sat down with His Father in His Father's throne before he even overcame first? It is not reasonable that Jesus had to do it one way and we get to do it another way, the complete opposite of the way He did it. Where the former applies to the way He did it, and the latter applies to the way we do it. Jesus already plainly tells us the correct order. After all, He did say this--as I also--which tells us the way we do it is the way He did it. He overcame first, then was later rewarded with sitting in His Father's throne. We overcome first then are later rewarded with sitting with Jesus in His throne.

That we sit with Christ in His throne before we have even overcome first is not reasonable. Keeping in mind that you fully agree there is such a thing as falling away after having been saved, thus NOSAS. Therefore, one can't be said to have overcome until they do that all the way up unto their death, or all the way up unto Christ returns. Whichever one might come first in their case.

In the context of overcoming until death, then they obviously can't sit with Him in His throne until after they die. But, then the question is, what do they do at that point? In my view, they take part in judging the world and even in judging angels somehow. He is the Judge, so maybe that relates to Him comparing what we have done as His followers (putting our trust in Him and overcoming until death) and they are judged in the sense that they did not do that so they then deserve to be punished.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are now Amil and no longer Premil? The OP is arguing Amil.

LOL. I doubt that, but you never know! Plenty of Amils used to be Premils. But, she has her own understanding of things (assuming she still has the same beliefs). She has believers reigning with Christ both in heaven and on earth now and also after the thousand years. Her beliefs are fairly convoluted.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Millenium, the "thousand years", is on Earth because Rev 19 says the reign is over the nations with a rod of iron and the nations are on the Earth. There are no unsaved nations in heaven or the throne room. Rev 5 also speaks of a reign on Earth, matching the reign over the Earthly nations.

Even in Amill the Millennium is on Earth, with living saints reigning here while Christ reigns from heaven. That still is a Earthly reign.

He reigns from both heaven and earth as He has all authority in heaven and in earth (Matt 28:18). It's not as if He is not able to affect anything on earth from heaven. While He is bodily in heaven, He spiritually dwells in His people and is certainly able to affect things on earth any way He wants to.