A puzzling verse about heaven and earth

[Nancy]

First we have to understand what these "new heavens and new earth" actually are, as the Bible writer Peter, understood them. Then we need to understand the reason why they need to "pass away" in order for "new" ones to replace them. (2 Peter 3:13)

So what are the "new heavens" from Peter's Jewish perspective? Jews had no belief in an afterlife (no immortal soul) so all life was to be lived on this earth where God created us to live in the first place. Who was to rule mankind at the outset? It was God himself....he was to be our Sovereign ruler, and the earth was to become a jewel in the crown of its eternal King.

This carefully and lovingly prepared planet was not designed to be a temporary home for us humans, but a permanent one. But we know that free will was abused and so a detour was implemented to demonstrate to humans by experience, what they could not be told....obedience to their Sovereign Ruler was the key to a successful life here in paradise. Death would come only as a result of sin (disobedience)....so conversely, no sin would have meant no death.

There was a "tree of life" in the garden to guarantee unending life in mortal flesh. Access to this tree was denied when they were evicted from the garden to eke out an existence on cursed ground. (Genesis 3:22-24) Death would eventually follow.

God's original instruction to Adam and his wife was to "fill the earth" with their children and "subdue" the land outside of their paradise home, so that eventually the whole world would look like the garden of Eden....a task that would probably have taken thousands of years....but it was interrupted at the outset by a rebel from the spirit realm who saw the worship that God would enjoy from his earthly children, and it tempted him to want that worship for himself. (James 1:13-15)
By lying to the woman, he took what rightfully belonged to Yahweh, and influenced the humans to follow him as their ruler.

The path God took was to allow the devil and the humans to exercise their free will in the way that they wanted to, knowing all along that it would end in disaster....but the object lesson would go down on record to show all of God's intelligent creation the folly of ignoring the commands of their Creator. He basically gave us all "enough rope" and we can clearly see that the "hanging" is about to take place.

Humans have been destroying the earth in ways unimaginable in Bible times.....weapons of war that could leave the earth itself a wasteland devoid of all life, not to mention the damage done through greed for profit by the big corporations spilling their poison onto the earth and into the oceans, damaging the health of all its inhabitants in the process.

So from the Bible's perspective, I believe that the "new heavens" will be the new ruling authority of Christ and his elect. Humans were originally designed to be ruled by God, so the new heavens will actually be a reinstatement of God's rulership over mankind with Jesus Christ as King and his elect as his support team. These will act as "kings and priests" for the thousand years it will take to restore humanity to their original sinless perfection. (Revelation 20:6)


The whole purpose of the Kingdom is to restore what God had put in place originally, with sinless humans serving his interests on a beautifully prepared planet under his direction, and with so much to enjoy in the life he purposed for us. The devil may have derailed that purpose temporarily, but he did not defeat it. What God starts, he finishes. (Isaiah 55:11)

The "new heavens" will rule over a "new earth" whose citizens will have already proven their love of God and their loyalty to him and his reigning King by sticking closely to his word. When Jesus comes with his angels to judge mankind...only those who have stuck to the teachings of Jesus without succumbing to the devil's deception, will become citizens of the "new earth", which will be cleansed of all that is evil, bringing everything back to the way it should have been in the beginning.

When you say "we", can you see that God's spirit operates on humans in different ways? He anoints those who will rule with Christ, giving them an inordinate desire to leave all earthly ties to take up their assignments in heaven, but for the "sheep".....these are the "meek" who "shall inherit the earth".

"This carefully and lovingly prepared planet was not designed to be a temporary home for us humans, but a permanent one... "so that eventually the whole world would look like the garden of Eden"

Agreed! A huge garden of Eden is what I believe the New earth will be like. Imagining such things as, no wires, concrete, 5G poses, etc. Cannot imagine it but I try hard, lol.


His rope is seemingly endless, as are His mercies yet we know that He will not be mocked and will end the "day of salvation" for many.

"Humans have been destroying the earth in ways unimaginable in Bible times.....weapons of war that could leave the earth itself a wasteland devoid of all life, not to mention the damage done through greed for profit by the big corporations spilling their poison onto the earth and into the oceans, damaging the health of all its inhabitants in the process."

GRRRR! I know a few Christians that do not believe the state of our earth has anything to do with humans~ THAT is inexplicable to me. We have ruined everything He gave us dominion over IMHO.

"So from the Bible's perspective, I believe that the "new heavens" will be the new ruling authority of Christ and his elect. Humans were originally designed to be ruled by God, so the new heavens will actually be a reinstatement of God's rulership over mankind with Jesus Christ as King and his elect as his support team. These will act as "kings and priests" for the thousand years it will take to restore humanity to their original sinless perfection. (Revelation 20:6)"

Sounds right to me, from what I have read/heard/learned.

And yes, I CAN "see that God's spirit operates on humans in different ways?" I do believe we will have different roles/ministries. He anoints who He will for His own reasons.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[dev553344]

Jesus said- "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Matthew 24:35)
What exactly does "pass away" mean ?

I think it means what it says. But heaven is probably the stars above I would think. More or less the universe will end perhaps.

 

[Dropship]

Jesus said- "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Matthew 24:35)
What exactly does "pass away" mean ?

I think it means what it says. But heaven is probably the stars above I would think. More or less the universe will end perhaps.

Yes, some scientists say the rate of expansion of the universe is slowing down and that in the future it'll begin collapsing back in on itself, which could tie in with verses like this one-
Jesus said- "..the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken" (Mark 13:25)

 

[dev553344]

Yes, some scientists say the rate of expansion of the universe is slowing down and that in the future it'll begin collapsing back in on itself, which could tie in with verses like this one-
Jesus said- "..the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken" (Mark 13:25)

Either that or a meteor shower.

 

[Bob Estey]

Jesus said- "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Matthew 24:35)
What exactly does "pass away" mean ?

I think the point here is that no matter what happens, we will remember what Jesus told us, and his words will teach us what to do in any situation.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I think it means what it says. But heaven is probably the stars above I would think. More or less the universe will end perhaps.

The making of “the new earth” does not mean or require the destroying of our literal earth, because we find in God’s word that this planet Earth will keep “standing even to time indefinite.” (Ecclesiastes 1:4) Since God brought “the heavens and the earth” into existence at the same time, and earth has its unique place in the universe, logically, there will be no destruction of the physical heaven and earth.

It is man’s mismanagement of this earth under the influence of God’s adversary that has caused all the harm we have seen down through time. God had his reasons for allowing the devil to rule mankind for a period of time to prove that his claims in Eden were all lies. Look where we are now.....on the brink of extinction. God cannot allow things to go on like this for much longer. (Revelation 11:18)

God’s kingdom by his Christ will transform our home into an everlasting Paradise....this is where God placed us, and living in paradise forever is where God intended us to live.....we have a natural desire to live there. There was no death in God’s original purpose for humankind.

The making of the “new earth” means the making of a new human society....those who have had their faith tested and who chose to serve God faithfully despite what others were doing....these have already demonstrated that they will live in full harmony with God’s will and purpose.....and his righteous “new heavens” will rule over those for whom Jesus gave his life. (2 Peter 3:13) So the “new heavens and earth” are not literal, but figurative.

God already has alive on earth at this “time of the end”, millions of prospective members of that “new earth” society.
When the judgment comes, the survivors of the end times will become “the new earth”, ruled by Christ and his elect as “the new heavens”. These are the ones who have “endured to the end” and are “saved”. (Matthew 24:13)

 

[dev553344]

The making of “the new earth” does not mean or require the destroying of our literal earth, because we find in God’s word that this planet Earth will keep “standing even to time indefinite.” (Ecclesiastes 1:4) Since God brought “the heavens and the earth” into existence at the same time, and earth has its unique place in the universe, logically, there will be no destruction of the physical heaven and earth.

It is man’s mismanagement of this earth under the influence of God’s adversary that has caused all the harm we have seen down through time. God had his reasons for allowing the devil to rule mankind for a period of time to prove that his claims in Eden were all lies. Look where we are now.....on the brink of extinction. God cannot allow things to go on like this for much longer. (Revelation 11:18)

God’s kingdom by his Christ will transform our home into an everlasting Paradise....this is where God placed us, and living in paradise forever is where God intended us to live.....we have a natural desire to live there. There was no death in God’s original purpose for humankind.

The making of the “new earth” means the making of a new human society....those who have had their faith tested and who chose to serve God faithfully despite what others were doing....these have already demonstrated that they will live in full harmony with God’s will and purpose.....and his righteous “new heavens” will rule over those for whom Jesus gave his life. (2 Peter 3:13) So the “new heavens and earth” are not literal, but figurative.

God already has alive on earth at this “time of the end”, millions of prospective members of that “new earth” society.
When the judgment comes, the survivors of the end times will become “the new earth”, ruled by Christ and his elect as “the new heavens”. These are the ones who have “endured to the end” and are “saved”. (Matthew 24:13)

That would be nice if it were true. But the bible tells us about the terrible day of the Lord, he will gather his own and destroy the rest, and transform the planet into a new earth:

Isaiah 13:9 “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.”

2 Peter 3:10-12​

​

The Day of the Lord​

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

 

[farouk]

Jesus said- "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Matthew 24:35)

So "Heaven and Earth" change, but the "words of Jesus" do not ... they stand FOREVER and IMMUTABLE.

@atpollard Psalm 119:89 indeed speaks of the Word being 'for ever settled in heaven'.

 

[Mr E]

Jesus said- "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Matthew 24:35)
What exactly does "pass away" mean ?

It means-- 'slip right past ya'

Like a stranger approaching from another direction that you take no notice of, then swoosh-- he walks right by you and still you take no notice- and he's gone.

Missed like a face in a crowd.

 

[Angelina]

Isaiah 51:6
“Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
Then look to the earth beneath;

For the heavens will be torn to pieces and vanish like smoke,
And the earth will wear out like a garment
And its inhabitants will die in like manner.

But My salvation will be forever,

And My righteousness (justice) [and faithfully fulfilled promise] will not be broken.

 

[atpollard]

Isaiah 51:6
“Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
Then look to the earth beneath;

For the heavens will be torn to pieces and vanish like smoke,
And the earth will wear out like a garment
And its inhabitants will die in like manner.

But My salvation will be forever,

And My righteousness (justice) [and faithfully fulfilled promise] will not be broken.

Boy, that GOD ... he sure can write!

 

[-Phil]

It’s the and which is really key. When there is no longer believed to be a heaven and earth… what Jesus said will definitely come to mind.

 

[Taken]

Jesus said- "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Matthew 24:35)
What exactly does "pass away" mean ?

I would say “pass away” means becomes “dead”, “desolate”, no longer a MEANS to “sustain”.

The Heavens ARE the “Estate” of celestial beings.
The “Estate” sustains the “Life” of celestial beings.

The Earth IS the “Estate” of terrestrial beings.
The “Estate” sustains the “Life” of terrestrial beings.

The “LIFE” that sustains a “celestial” being....IS spiritual...Godly.
The “LIFE” that sustains a “terrestrial” being...IS natural...Plants, Minerals.

Both the “celestial being AND the terrestrial being” HAS FREEWILL.
The “celestial beings”....CAN freely “REMAIN” Holy...or not.
The “terrestrial beings”...CAN freely “BECOME MADE/transformed into a Spiritual being....(By, Through, Of receiving the Offering of God)....or not.

“Celestial spiritual beings CAN NOT DIE”....however they CAN BE Separated From “their Estate” / HEAVEN.

“Terrestrial natural being MUST bodily Die”...Their BODY shall return to the Dust of the Earth from which they come.
“IF” A Terrestrial Beings.........soul becomes “MADE” saved, via receipt of Gods Gift of Salvation...
AND
“IF” A Terrestrial Beings.........natural spirit becomes “MADE” born again, via receipts of Gods SEED...
“THEN” his Terrestrial Body.....SHALL “MADE” anew, via the POWER of God, WHEN God Raises that body up. (Called raised IN glory, Meaning raised uncorrupted, Meaning NEVER again Able to DIE).
“THAT” ^ Terrestrial Body, SHALL BE -reunited with It’s Saved soul, it’s Born Again spirit..........AND Occupy the Renewed Earth........VOID of ALL CORRUPTION....AND Face to FACE WITH his Lord God Almighty.

Glory to God,
Taken