A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

[ElieG12]

I understand what you say. Do the same we do: as much as possible, try to focus in the biblical points and arguments.

Like: any answer to my post#195?

This is my post:

Excellent explanation.

Calling JWs polytheists for considering Jesus a god as the Bible says (John 1:1,18), yet in contrast to the God who is to be worshiped (John 17:3; 20:17), is reckless, because it is accusing Jesus himself of the same, since he admitted that God called gods even other humans who were judges in Israel (John 10:34,35; Psal. 82:6).

It is a fact that those who hate JWs do not realize the serious implications of their accusations to us, even denying Jesus and the Scriptures with these accusations, to the point of even blaspheming against God. If God called some humans “gods,” would that make God a polytheist? Obviously that is blasphemy, and is implicated in the accusation of polytheism to JWs.

Although we agree with the Scriptures about the existence of real and recognized gods, such as Satan for this system of things that he rules (2 Cor. 4:4), it does not mean that we worship any of those other gods.

Paul said under inspiration: "there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”"... even if he said "there is actually to us one God, the Father" (1 Cor. 8:5,6). So he admitted about the existence of other gods, but clarified that the Christian's worship is only to One. Actually, when he said that our God is THE FATHER, everyone who considers Jesus to be his God and puts him in the place of his Father is committing idolatry; some call that christolatry.

Ask yourself: Given what we know of Jesus' teachings in the Bible, do you think he would accept being given the worship due to his Father?

John 5:39 “YOU are searching the Scriptures, because YOU think that by means of them YOU will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. 40 And yet YOU do not want to come to me that YOU may have life. 41 I do not accept glory from men, 42 but I well know that YOU do not have the love of God in YOU. 43 I have come in the name of my Father, but YOU do not receive me; if someone else arrived in his own name, YOU would receive that one. 44 How can YOU believe, when YOU are accepting glory from one another and YOU are not seeking the glory that is from the only God?

Biblical points and arguments included:

God called others "gods", does that make God polytheist? Psal. 82:6

Jesus admited that God called others "gods", does that make Jesus polytheist? John 10:34,35

Paul admitted that "there are other gods", does that make Paul polytheist? 1 Cor. 8:5

The Scriptures say that Satan is the god of this system, does the Bible teach polytheism? 2 Cor. 4:4

Paul said that the only God of the Christians is the Father, does that tell you something else about what worshiping the Son is? 1 Cor. 8:6

Would Jesus accept the worship that is due to the Father? Matt. 4:10; John 5:41

 

[ElieG12]

Evidently the Bible calls several real people "gods." However, it makes a clear distinction about who the one true God is who should be the recipient of our worship. If a Christian who worships only the Father recognizes that other gods exist, it does not mean that he is a polytheist, because he is simply accepting the biblical point of view on the matter.

Believers in the trinity claim that calling GOD one group of three persons eliminates the polytheism that they actually practice, at the same time they are accusing others of polytheism for worshiping only the Father of Jesus and recognizing the divinity of Jesus Christ without this meaning that we should equal him with his Father.

To make matters worse, in addition to accusing us of something as serious as polytheism without being true, without recognizing that putting three gods in a package is real polytheism, they want us not to defend ourselves against such a serious and lying accusation. But the JWs are always going to demonstrate that our point of view is supported by the Scriptures, and that no matter how much they try to disguise it, those who are really polytheistic are the Trinitarians.

 

[Wrangler]

We all have to make choices as to what is real truth in a world ruled by the greatest con artist who ever lived. We will live or die by whom we choose to believe, and how we choose to act. (Matt 7:21-23)

Great, great point!!

 

[face2face]

Great, great point!!

You know Jane has tried many times to prove the existence of this con artist but without success. She won’t acknowledge the OT is silent on any being that changes God and His Sovereignty. And when asked to show her understanding from the NT she runs off to the Revelation.

The false accuser is within; its our nature which the Lord put to death on the cross.

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—

Paul understood this subject but so few Christians do.

How could God break the devils power through putting his son to death? How can a man bleeding out on a tree remove this con artist's power?

Think about this wrangler.

F2F

 

[Aunty Jane]

That post contained an example of what I meant. Not need to make it something it's not.

Your posts are an example of someone who cannot be told or shown anything that disagrees with their own programming. You respond as if nothing has been said to you in response to what you posted. If someone posts something that is not true to Bible teaching, I will call them out on it. Too bad if you find it confronting....the truth does not cease to be the truth because people don’t want to believe it.

So maybe this applies to yourself . . .

Perhaps, but at least we have addressed what you have stated, scripturally. Was there anything I said that wasn’t true? .......The silence is deafening from your end.

Much love!

That is so hypocritical.....there is no love in your posts......when challenged, blind justification is all I see. Please address the points of scripture if you are after a “fruitful discussion”.....but at least admit it when you see for yourself that what you have been led to believe by your own teachers, is in error.

I once believed what you believe, but as Jesus said, “the truth set me free”. (John 6:44; 65)

 

[Wrangler]

You know Jane has tried many times to prove the existence of this con artist but without success.

Disagree. You mean the burden is on @Aunty Jane above and beyond the words of Scripture to be accepted as proof? What more do you need that Scripture and Jesus saying the con artist exists?

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Matthew 4:1 (NIV)

Your father is the devil, and you do exactly what he wants. He has always been a murderer and a liar. There is nothing truthful about him. He speaks on his own, and everything he says is a lie. Not only is he a liar himself, but he is also the father of all lies.
John 8:44 (CEV)

She won’t acknowledge the OT is silent on any being that changes God and His Sovereignty. And when asked to show her understanding from the NT she runs off to the Revelation.

Revelation is part of the NT. So, I'm not sure what the basis of your objection is. However, I want to expand more on your thoughts of any claim by AJ that there is a Being in the OT that changes God and his Sovereignty. I've never come across anything AJ wrote that was remotely like this at all.

The false accuser is within; its our nature which the Lord put to death on the cross.

Well, now you are changing the meaning of terms. And you are still incorrect. IF our nature was put to death on the cross, universalism would be correct doctrine and there would be no need to repent and accept Jesus as your lord and savior.


So you will be saved, if you honestly say, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe with all your heart that God raised him from death.
Romans 10:9 (CEV)

How could God break the devils power through putting his son to death? How can a man bleeding out on a tree remove this con artist's power?

Think about this wrangler.

It was never about the devil. Your questions implied premises are rejected.

The devil is small potatoes.

I consider it no small matter that Jesus was led by the Spirit of God to be tempted by the devil. My pastor did a sermon series on the plagues of Egypt. The term "hardening the heart" is not God deceiving the Pharaoh of his own good judgment. In the native language, the terms means to squeeze what is already there. In other words, if one is looking to sin, looking to be deceived by temptation, only then does the devil have any "power over you." It does not take much power to influence people to do what they want anyway.

Consider John 3:16. It does not say that God broke the power of the devil. To the extent we deceive ourselves, is why a man bleeding on a tree saved us.


The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.
John 16:9 (NLT)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Disagree. You mean the burden is on @Aunty Jane above and beyond the words of Scripture to be accepted as proof? What more do you need that Scripture and Jesus saying the con artist exists?

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Matthew 4:1 (NIV)

This begs the question…..”what devil did Jesus contend with as a sinless man, not born from Adam, but from God?”
What point was there in tempting the son of God if there was no way to take him off his assigned course? The future of the entire human race rested on his shoulders, so any deviation from his Messianic role would have caused God’s purpose to fail. Jesus had to be a 100% free willed human in order to pay the redemption price, and cancel the debt that Adam left for his children….’a perfect life for a perfect life’. God’s perfect justice fulfilled.

F2F wrote….

How can a man bleeding out on a tree remove this con artist's power?

This is probably the most disrespectful thing I have read from a so-called Christian on these boards and why I have this poster on ignore.

1 John 3:8…..
“The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil.”

Hebrews 2:14…17-18…..
“Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly shared in the same things, so that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil”……

17 Consequently, he had to become like his “brothers” in all respects, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, in order to offer a propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the people. 18 Since he himself has suffered when being put to the test, he is able to come to the aid of those who are being put to the test.”

Your father is the devil, and you do exactly what he wants. He has always been a murderer and a liar. There is nothing truthful about him. He speaks on his own, and everything he says is a lie. Not only is he a liar himself, but he is also the father of all lies.
John 8:44 (CEV)

Those who accept one of the devil’s most powerful lies are already in his clutches…..those who don’t believe that he exists.

Revelation is part of the NT. So, I'm not sure what the basis of your objection is. However, I want to expand more on your thoughts of any claim by AJ that there is a Being in the OT that changes God and his Sovereignty. I've never come across anything AJ wrote that was remotely like this at all.

Indeed…..if there was no devil in the garden of Eden, abusing his free will and rebelling against his Creator, there would not be any need to impose sin and death upon a perfect, sinless, human race. This is not the life God purposed for his human children…..but free will was intended to be a precious gift…..something to be exercised without sin and death being ever present.
The devil “challenged”, not “changed” God and his Sovereignty. That challenge was accepted and God subjected creation to the devil’s attempt to take God’s rightful Sovereignty away from him. The only way to gain the worship he desired was to separate humankind from their God and take his place.

God allowed this, actually handing the world over to the pretender in order to prove many things in the greatest object lesson we will ever have to endure……

“So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. 6 Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 If you, therefore, do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.” 8 In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” (Luke 4:5-8 where Jesus quoted Deut 10:20)

Well, now you are changing the meaning of terms. And you are still incorrect. IF our nature was put to death on the cross, universalism would be correct doctrine and there would be no need to repent and accept Jesus as your lord and savior.

Exactly. Sin and death are still very much in evidence since Jesus gave his life, almost 2000 years ago.
So what did Jesus’ death accomplish exactly? The devil was allowed a certain time period in which the human race could be tested as to fitness for life in the new world to come.
God’s purpose was revealed gradually over time and Abraham received a promise that by means of his lineage, ALL nations would be blessed. A seed would come and break up the works of the devil.
If there is no devil, then the Bible’s whole scenario is a lie.…and makes no sense.

Satan ( the adversary) was permitted to test the human race, and his tactics have never changed….he is a liar and a con artist.

The new world is not a new planet as some expect, but as in the days of Noah, it is a reset after the cleansing of this earth of all the wickedness that satan introduced in Eden. Christ with his angelic forces is about to deal with that “original serpent” and throw him and his cronies into an abyss of complete inactivity (Revelation 12:7-12)……only then can God’s Kingdom take over earth’s rulership in the hands of his appointed King and High Priest, Jesus Christ. (Matt 24:37-39; Matt 6:10; Daniel 2:44) This will introduce a 1000 years of restoration, reconciliation and peace under the rulership of Gods son and his hand picked assistant “kings and priests”. (Rev 20:6)

So you will be saved, if you honestly say, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe with all your heart that God raised him from death.
Romans 10:9 (CEV)

Yes, we have to acknowledge that Jesus is “Lord” not ”God” (Yahweh). How the title came to be viewed as “God” instead of just a respectful title, is another example of how the con artist works. He has people worshipping the wrong god.

It was never about the devil. Your questions implied premises are rejected.

The devil is small potatoes.

I consider it no small matter that Jesus was led by the Spirit of God to be tempted by the devil. My pastor did a sermon series on the plagues of Egypt. The term "hardening the heart" is not God deceiving the Pharaoh of his own good judgment. In the native language, the terms means to squeeze what is already there. In other words, if one is looking to sin, looking to be deceived by temptation, only then does the devil have any "power over you." It does not take much power to influence people to do what they want anyway.

Good point. God hardens no one’s heart, but he will allow those whose hearts are already hard to stay in that mindset if he sees that they are unteachable. (2 Thess 2:9-12) If we love the truth, then it will attract us because God will make it attractive to us. (John 6:44, 65) It is he who draws us…..we can accept his invitation or reject it.

Consider John 3:16. It does not say that God broke the power of the devil. To the extent we deceive ourselves, is why a man bleeding on a tree saved us.

The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.
John 16:9 (NLT)

The greatest sadness is that the majority who call themselves “believers” will not make the cut. They will give Jesus their excuses but the rejection will be stinging. These have not “done the will of the Father”. (Matt 7:21-23) None of us want to be on the receiving end of that.

 

[strepho]

Apostates broke away from the foundation of christ and formed Denominations, Corinthians chapter 3.
The jehovah witnesses don't believe in the Trinity.
Charles Russell founded the jehovah witnesses..
J V don't believe don't believe in Matthew chapter 1:23. God is with us.
J V believe Jesus is a created being, and deny He, Jesus, is God.
Isaiah chapter 7 tells us, Emmanuel means = God with us.
J V dont believe man/women have soul.
J V don't believe dent the existence of hell.
In Luke chapter 16 . Jesus tells us about paradise and sheol, which is hell. There's two sides of the gulf. Jesus tells us hell does exist.
Ecclesiastes chapter 12 tells us when flesh dies, the soul immediately returns to God.
Jehovah witnesses teach false doctrine.

 

[RR144]

God used wicked men in the past to achieve his will. God can use others in the congregation for certain purposes, but NEVER does a domestic know a revealed truth before these do-Matt 24:45. So the brother was correct.

And again your skirt the question at hand. Jackson was saying God uses others outside of the Jehovah's Witness movement.

 

[face2face]

Disagree. You mean the burden is on @Aunty Jane above and beyond the words of Scripture to be accepted as proof? What more do you need that Scripture and Jesus saying the con artist exists?

She has avoided the burden of evidence against a literal demonic creature though in the early days she tried to force it on OT passages in vain.

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Matthew 4:1 (NIV)

So what is the nature of this false accuser?

1. Christ himself (the mind of the flesh)
2. High Priest or representatives
3. A fallen angel which has no origin story in the Bible at all
4. An angel sent to test him in his weakness

You wrangler should know not to force man-made notions upon the Word without first testing them.

Your father is the devil, and you do exactly what he wants. He has always been a murderer and a liar. There is nothing truthful about him. He speaks on his own, and everything he says is a lie. Not only is he a liar himself, but he is also the father of all lies.
John 8:44 (CEV)

Boy o boy, the first lie came through the voice of an animal which God had made and the first death is laid at Cains feet. Your implication here does not place you in a very good light Wrangler.

Revelation is part of the NT. So, I'm not sure what the basis of your objection is.

Christians know they have no origin story for their devil and when it gets difficult to prove they run to a highly symbolic book to force their man-made notions.

When a believer does this, they are showing they have no foundation - to give credit to Jane, at least she tried to work it into the King of Babylon and the King of Tyre records, but it was miserable, so much so, she placed me on ignore! There are multiple threads between us dealing with this false doctrine and in the end she couldnt argue with the correct interpratation but fell on her sword and said its what God has revealed to her community.

Well, now you are changing the meaning of terms. And you are still incorrect. IF our nature was put to death on the cross, universalism would be correct doctrine and there would be no need to repent and accept Jesus as your lord and savior.

Wrangler, best to leave Hebrews 2:14 alone until you can rightly identify the precise nature of the devil in that text. Paul understands what has the power of death and as such knows how God removed it from Christ. Romans 6:23 will help you work out Hebrews 2:14.

What this verse does do however is show you the diversity in the term "devil" and how the writers used its meaning in the right context.

How does sin (devil) falsely accuse us before God?
How did God remove sin's power in the sacrifice of His Son? (see Romans 8:1-3)

So you will be saved, if you honestly say, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe with all your heart that God raised him from death.
Romans 10:9 (CEV)

True!

But the changing context in which devil, satan etc are used cannot help you or Jane "build" a story about a con artist and the con artist is a fabrication of implied notions upon the Word - every occurence of these words needs its own individual consideration otherwise like Jane you take a brush and paint all over the Word of God with man-made notions and you lose the actual truth of the Word.

It was never about the devil. Your questions implied premises are rejected.

The devil is small potatoes.

I consider it no small matter that Jesus was led by the Spirit of God to be tempted by the devil. My pastor did a sermon series on the plagues of Egypt. The term "hardening the heart" is not God deceiving the Pharaoh of his own good judgment. In the native language, the terms means to squeeze what is already there. In other words, if one is looking to sin, looking to be deceived by temptation, only then does the devil have any "power over you." It does not take much power to influence people to do what they want anyway.

No such creature in the OT - to prove a dstory about a supernatural fallen angel you need an origin story in the NT - the OT is 100% silent on your evil despot.

Consider John 3:16. It does not say that God broke the power of the devil. To the extent we deceive ourselves, is why a man bleeding on a tree saved us.


The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.
John 16:9 (NLT)

John 3:16 will lead you to a door which if you open will take you to Hebs 2:14-17 and Romans 8:1-3, no doubt you will find the true nature of the devil there. As Jane found out the hard way here:

Lucifer or a Fallen Angel

Isaiah 14:12: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!” I can see how you come to this conclusion, except ....the scripture says Lucifer is fallen from heaven. Being called a man ...even Jesus was called a man and often angels are referred to as men when they appear in...

www.christianityboard.com

King of Tyre or a Supernatural Creature of Darkness

What is the broader context of Ezekiel 28? Ezekiel 28:1 The word of the Lord came to me: of Tyre, ‘This is what the sovereign Lord says:“ ‘Your heart is proud and you said, “I am a god; Ezekiel 28:11 The word of the Lord came to me: a lament for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘This is what...

www.christianityboard.com

Quote from brakelite which I thought apt:

"It is acknowledged that ‘satan’ only appears in three or four texts in the entire Old Testament, and none them depict the supernatural evil being of later Jewish and Christian theology"

So, what you have is random words such as "false accuser" & "adversary" scattered throughout the NT all with very different meanings and context, but none of them speak to an evil supernatural being who tempts people to sin.

Other than the immortality of the soul its the biggest lie in Christianity and its rife in this forum!

F2F

 

[face2face]

This begs the question…..”what devil did Jesus contend with as a sinless man, not born from Adam, but from God?”

Evidence!

What point was there in tempting the son of God if there was no way to take him off his assigned course? The future of the entire human race rested on his shoulders, so any deviation from his Messianic role would have caused God’s purpose to fail. Jesus had to be a 100% free willed human in order to pay the redemption price, and cancel the debt that Adam left for his children….’a perfect life for a perfect life’. God’s perfect justice fulfilled.

F2F wrote….

This is probably the most disrespectful thing I have read from a so-called Christian on these boards and why I have this poster on ignore.

The reason its disrespectful is not due to the thing said but to your lack of understanding of how the devil was destroyed upon the Lords death.

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—Heb 2:14

What has the power of death?
Why does Paul personify sin ("power of him")?
Why did Jesus need to be in sin's flesh to allow God to remove sin's power? Romans 6:23 cmp Romans 8:1-3
How was sin's (devil) power broken on the cross? (take me to a verse!)

and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. Hebrews 2:15

Sin's power is what holds people in slavery AND not some make believe super natural being!

In no way does an evil supernatural being have anything to do with Hebrews 2:14-15 at all!! This is speaking about God's victory over sin's flesh from which comes all the works of the flesh as taught in Galatians 5:19-21

I doubt you can answer the questions without running off to destroy some other passage of Scripture, but if you stayed in the context of Hebrews 2, you have a chance of finding a truth you nor your community currently hold.

F2F

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, we have to acknowledge that Jesus is “Lord” not ”God” (Yahweh). How the title came to be viewed as “God” instead of just a respectful title, is another example of how the con artist works. He has people worshipping the wrong god.

Scary to contemplate.

 

[face2face]

Scary to contemplate.

What is scary is the knowledge that all the false doctrines in the world come from man alone - his imaginations! to try and palm this off to something make believe, is scary to contemplate.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Seeing the OP is questions for JW's I thought we could explore their teaching on devil and satan.

Quote taken from https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g200702/who-is-satan-is-he-real/

JW believe - The Bible describes Satan as a real person who exists in the invisible spirit realm.

So two assumptions are made 1. satan is a real person 2. who exists in an invisable spirit realm.

Now this is what the article uses to support the above claim:

(Job 1:6) It tells us about his vicious and ruthless qualities as well as his evil actions. (Job 1:13-19; 2:7, 8; 2 Timothy 2:26) It even records conversations that Satan had with God and with Jesus.—Job 1:7-12; Matthew 4:1-11.

Firstly, does Job 1:6 teach us this adversary is vicious and ruthless?

One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them Job 1:6

Is there anywhere in that above sentence @Wrangler @Aunty Jane where these qualities can be established?

Now, if you both have an ounce of credibility in the things of God, you both would have to answer, "no, it cannot be proven that that adversary was vicious or ruthless from that verse! In fact, the book of Job accounts all those actions to God Himself and not once is the adversary shown to have any power whatsoever.

It's this type of false teaching which puts you out of the covenant of God and not within it!

F2F

 

[Aunty Jane]

And again your skirt the question at hand. Jackson was saying God uses others outside of the Jehovah's Witness movement.

Go back to the days of ancient Israel….did God use others outside of his nation to fulfill his purpose? Yes he did when it suited him to do so….but his nation was separate from the pagan nations around them….different for all the right reasons. They were instructed to remain separate, but they disobeyed.

And in the first century with the gathering of the Christian congregations that formed as more and more accepted Jesus as the Christ…..both from Judaism and from the nations….was there more than one group of people who could tell the truth about Jesus?……all the first Christians were Jews, the majority of whom saw the Christians as apostates. The former pagans had to leave every vestige of their old beliefs behind, just as a Jewish proselytes had to. The only way to become a worshipper of the true God was through his chosen people. The Jews lost their place through disobedience, but Jehovah chose a new “Israel”…..”the Israel of God”……he raised up a nation who would serve him in obedience through the teachings of his son, (Gal 6:16)….something the fleshly Jews had never done continuously in their whole history. Once he produced his Messiah and they murdered him, Israel was cast off….”abandoned”. (Matt 23:37-39) The new ‘spiritual “Israel” was adopted.

When those Jews and others who came to Christ wanted to learn more and become baptized disciples, to whom were they sent? Was there a variety of “Christian” sects who differed on various points, but could still do the job of keeping the congregation in unity?

NO! There was one “Christian“ organization who taught one truth and nothing but the truth. It was to these that people came to learn and be baptized.

In times past, God did at times use his enemies to further his purpose, but in the days of ancient Israel, no one could worship Jehovah, unless they converted to Judaism. “Proselytes” had to live as Jews and worship as Jews…there was to be just one faith, but as time went on sectarianism divided them. They adopted pagan ideas, twisted scripture, and taught them as God’s truth. (Matt 15:7-9)

What did Jesus foretell would take place after his death, and the death of the apostles? Apostasy! The very thing that took the Jews off the path to life, happened to Christianity. Men “arose and spoke twisted things”, Peter said…..”weeds“ had been planted among the “wheat”, but these were to “grow together” until the “harvest time”…..which is just about to begin.

The “weeds” are gathered first and thrown into the fire to be destroyed….thereafter the “wheat” are gathered into the master’s storehouse. There are not many choices to make because at the harvest time there are just “wheat and weeds”, clearly separated, not by us, but by Jesus, God’s appointed judge. So which are we? Wheat or weeds? Jesus knows.

The wheat will be united in their beliefs and practices according to 1 Cor 1:10, and will be actively obeying Christ’s command to take his message of salvation and the rulership of his kingdom into “all the inhabited earth”. There will be no divisions or disagreements among them. They will meet together regularly to “incite to love and fine works” and especially so as we see these last days drawing to a close. (Heb 10:24-25)

It is the devil who created counterfeit ”Christianity” and we have to discern through study whether we have the whole truth, or only a fractured or incomplete version of it. He said that “few” would be on the road to life, (Matt 7:13-14) so we can eliminate Christendom whose denominations all hold their core beliefs in common…..none of them are biblical.

Like the first century, it will be a hated minority found practicing the true faith……only these will make the cut. (John 15:18-21)
Jesus knows those who belong to him……they are out in all the world preaching, not making excuses for why they don’t. (Matthew 24:14; 28:19-20)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Apostates broke away from the foundation of christ and formed Denominations, Corinthians chapter 3.

Correct….but the foretold apostasy began before the death of the apostles. (2 Thess 2:7) That apostate church formed the foundations of Roman Catholicism, which was the only “Christianity” in existence for 1500 years. All other “denominations“ that teach her lies, are her daughters, taking much of their mother’s dirty laundry with them. Any wonder Jesus says to the “many” on judgment day….”I never knew you”….(Matt 7:21-23)

The jehovah witnesses don't believe in the Trinity.

Neither did Jesus. There was no trinity in Christianity until the apostasy took place. It is not found anywhere in scripture. The apostles did not think God was a trinity in fact they declared quite plainly….
1 Cor 8:5-6….
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

Charles Russell founded the jehovah witnesses..

Charles Russell founded the Watchtower Society, which was a Bible society producing printed material and Bibles to distribute to the public. Jehovah’s Witnesses use the Watchtower Society (a legal entity required by law to produce large volumes of printed material) to help people to understand the Bible. All our literature is free….our Bible study course is also free whether in home or online.

J V don't believe don't believe in Matthew chapter 1:23. God is with us.

Matthew 1:23 quotes Isaiah 7:14 and gives the name “Immanuel” which means “with us is God”.
Did Jesus need to be God in order for this name to apply? How was God “with” his nation of Israel before Jesus even came into the world? He spoke by means of his prophets.

Was Jesus called “Immanuel”? Why then was he named “Yeshua”? (Jesus in English) Jesus means “Jehovah is Salvation”. Salvation came from God through his son.

J V believe Jesus is a created being, and deny He, Jesus, is God.

Jesus said that he was a created being.
Revelation 3:14, speaking about himself, Jesus said….
”To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God”….

Paul wrote of Jesus…..”He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation”. (Colossians 1:15)
Jesus never once said he was God. I ask you to find the scripture where he says he is.

J V dont believe man/women have soul.

The Bible does not teach that humans “have souls”….it says that they ARE souls and that souls are mortal and they die. (Ezekiel 18:4)The ancient Jews were never taught that they had an immortal soul. Nothing survives the death of the body. Animals are also called “souls” in scripture and we humans die the same death as they do. (Eccl 9:5, 10; Eccl 3:19-20)
A return to life was by means of a resurrection, which in Jewish understanding meant being raised from the dead when Messiah’s kingdom ruled the earth…..they were never taught about an immortal soul that departed from the body immediately at death…..that was adopted later from pagan Greek religious thinking.

When Jesus resurrected Lazarus, he had been dead for four days, but Jesus did not call him back from heaven, he said he was “sleeping” and called him from his tomb. (John 11:11-14)

J V don't believe dent the existence of hell.

The Bible does not teach that God punishes people after they die…why would he? The highest penalty a person could pay for any crime under God’s law, was death. You seem to have no idea what “hell” is in the Bible….I can assure you it’s got nothing to do with conscious punishment in a fire after a person dies.
Gehenna is not hades. Do some research. Look up the words translated “hell” and see that they are different and have very different meanings.

In Luke chapter 16 . Jesus tells us about paradise and sheol, which is hell. There's two sides of the gulf. Jesus tells us hell does exist.

Its a parable, not a true story. Are heaven and hell within speaking distance to one another? And can a drop of water on someone’s finger cool a man’s tongue in a blazing fire? More homework for you.

Ecclesiastes chapter 12 tells us when flesh dies, the soul immediately returns to God.

It doesn’t…it says that “the spirit returns to God” and this was according to Jewish belief not Christendom’s twisted doctrines. The spirit in Jewish understanding was the breath of life, which returns to God in a symbolic sense in that only God can give back the breath of life in the promised resurrection. The resurrection is a return to life under the rulership of God’s kingdom. Jesus will call all the dead from their graves. (John 5:28-29) There is no afterlife of an immortal soul mentioned anywhere in the Bible.
Sounds like you need to do some study on what a resurrection meant to a Jew as well.

Jehovah witnesses teach false doctrine.

LOL…..you have no idea how much false doctrine is contained in your post…..it’s appalling that after almost 2000 years, the devil has got you all still believing his lies. Do you never question what you have been taught? I question everything.

Please do some study…you might learn something important about the Christian faith, not what masquerades as it in this 21st century where there are literally thousands of denominations in existence, all teaching different things but still claiming Jesus as their “Lord”. What religion was Jesus? He was a Jew, not a Catholic.

 

[Taken]

Quote from JW web sight ;
“We follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ and honor him as our Savior and as the Son of God. (Matthew 20:28; Acts 5:31) Thus, we are Christians. (Acts 11:26) However, we have learned from the Bible that Jesus is not Almighty God and that there is no Scriptural basis for the Trinity doctrine.—John 14:28.”

JW’s believing IN God, believing IN Jesus IS the Christ, believing IN Jesus Christ IS the Savior and Son of God…BY Gods Word, “MAKES” such individual A BROTHER IN Christ, to ALL other BROTHERS IN Christ….
Regardless of what “they title or name their organization”….or “what title or name” they choose to call themselves.

An individual freely heartfully expressing Their Belief IN God, IN the One God sent being Jesus, IN Jesus being the Christ, IN Jesus being the Son of God and Savior…
IS: Gods Requirement…of that individual…
TO: have accomplished Works of God.
(Ie BELIEF)
TO: have accomplished Service unto God.
(Ie. Heartful CONFESSION OF their BELIEF).
TO: be INCLUDED as a Forever Citizen of Gods Kingdom.

An individual WHO hears, learns, knows, understands and DOES those things…
IS FORGIVEN, IS FOREVER WITH the Lord God Almighty (according to Gods own Word and Promise.)

It is NOT NEWS, Individuals “IN” Christ, WITH God Forever…ARE NOT ALL KNOWING….DO NOT HAVE ALL UNDERSTANDING….

It is NOT NEWS, EVEN God Believing (tribesmen, Jews, etc.) Disagreed and Disagree in Knowledge AND Understanding.

It is NOT NEWS, EVEN Christ the Lord God Believing (Gentiles) Disagreed and Disagree in Knowledge AND Understanding.

Point Being…
* Earthly men have Natural brothers, born of their Natural parents.
* All Tribesmen of Israel are brothers, effected by Gods Division.
* All Gentiles are brothers, effected by Gods Division.
* All men “IN” Christ are brothers (regardless of their Natural Parents, their Natural Siblings, their division of Israel Tribesmen or division of Gentiles)….exclusively By, Through, Of THE OFFERING OF GOD, FOR THEM TO Submit, Commit, and RECEIVE Gods OFFERING (according TO His WAY);
The Spirit of God (CHRIST) …
“IN” them and they “IN” Christ….
“ARE” MADE, Brothers “IN” Christ.

Do “THEY” ALL “KNOW” all things the SAME?
Nope!
So “THEY” ALL UNDERSTAND” all things the SAME?
Nope!

Does their LACK of Knowledge or LACK of Understanding “compromise”, “forfeit”, or “otherwise UNDO” their BONDED Brotherhood “IN” Christ?
Nope!

Just saying…KNOW whom your brothers IN Christ ARE and Use Caution, Love, when challenging the Knowledge and Understanding OF a BROTHER IN Christ.

Gods KNOWLEDGE “given” to mankind “IS” limited.
Gods UNDERSTANDING of Gods word “given” to mankind “IS” limited.

Surely it is more than OBVIOUS, Human nature IS desirous TO KNOW ALL things, TO UNDERSTAND ALL things…AND from the Beginning of God creating and making mankind….ALL knowing and ALL understanding of ALL knowledge IS Reserved UNTO The Lord God Himself. It IS the Power of His own Exclusive Glory and His to Give to Individuals IN MEASURES via Reflections as HE decides and WHEN HE decides an individual IS prepared to Receive.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Jack]

I'm a critical thinker who has thrown of the shackles of mysticsim found in trintiarianism. That's how.

But you sound like a JW puppet.

 

[Jack]

No. Do I have to be a Hebrew expert to know that 3 does not equal 1?

Then stop trying to rewrite our Bible!

 

[Wrangler]

Christians know they have no origin story for their devil and when it gets difficult to prove

This seems to be a sticking point for you. I wonder why is that?