A rather rhetorical question for the "Hell is FOREVER" crowd

[ScottA]

There are countless verses from multiple Bible authors that demonstrate that ALL will be saved in the end.

Only if taken out of context. There are also countless verses that demonstrate many will not be saved. The whole context includes both saved and unsaved.

 

[St. SteVen]

Christianity and reality is not about what you like or do not like.

Sounds like the definition of tyranny.
What's wrong with this picture?

 

[ScottA]

We seem to be blind to what the church is doing to us.
Turning our loving heavenly Father into something that resembles
a gangster godfather, making us an offer we can't refuse.
The threat of hell as a fear tactic.

The church is far from perfect, but the words are not from the church, but from God.

A gospel that looks like this:
Man #1: I have a free gift for you.
Man #2: Thanks, But I'm not interested.
Man #1: Not interested? I said it was free!
Man #2: I'm pretty sure there are some strings attached.
Man #1: Well, of course. But it's FREE!
Man #2: Not really, if there are strings attached.
Man #1: This is my final offer. Better take it now, or else!
Man #2: Uh... or else what?
Man #1: You will be incinerated!
Man #2: Seriously? What kind of free gift is that?

You are not describing the circumstances correctly at all. God has been challenged by a liar and murderer.

If someone came in your house and began murdering your children--what-- would you love them and let them take the place of the children they murdered in your sight? Maybe, but not likely, not justly, and that is not the plan of God as it is written.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That sounds like a threat. What are you insinuating exactly?

Reality

Take it however you will.

 

[Taken]

Countless billions have gone into the afterlife with no knowledge of the gospel.

The Lord God knows the true thoughts of every persons heart.

 

[Patrick1966]

Only if taken out of context. There are also countless verses that demonstrate many will not be saved. The whole context includes both saved and unsaved.

Why do you believe that God sends his children to eternal suffering? You seem to have a very low opinion of our creator.

 

[Patrick1966]

You have said enough for me to see that you call Christ and the Apostles liars.
You have said enough that I know you are not happy with God's character and want to re-write the Bible to change it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Christian Universalism is not a new idea.

This is wrong.

 

[Patrick1966]

The prevailing view among most Christians is that God is a LOSER and that he is cruel and unforgiving and incapable of persuading his children to follow him.

 

[Grailhunter]

It was a dominant theology in the early church.

This is wrong.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 German theologian- Philip Schaff, Editor: "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

Heresy's have always existed....that gives them no merit.

 

[Patrick1966]

So @Grailhunter and @ScottA What methods do you believe God uses to torture his children? Do you think he slowly cuts off the testicles of men continuously all day and all night? How about pulling out fingernails and toenails? Or how about shoving ice picks into people's ears, do you think he does that too? What other methods do you believe God uses to torture his children?

 

[Patrick1966]

But those who are not his, he will cast into our darkness.

If that's true then 1 Timothy 4:10 is untrue and so are many other verses.

 

[Patrick1966]

Agree. Here's some info about that.

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

 

[Patrick1966]

Our friend, God bless him, is completely inflexible in his views. He won't concede anything. (in my experience)
But perhaps you have what it takes to reach him. I'll back you up. (if need be) You have my support either way.
And so does Charlie, for that matter. I respect anyone who has done their homework and arrived at a conclusion.

I love @Charlie24 and everyone here. I'm not upset or angry that they reject God's word, I'm just sad for them. I'm sad that they have such a low opinion of God. God is great. God is merciful. God is love. God is capable of persuading ALL to follow and love him. We are tormented (test) in this age in order to prepare us for eternal glory in his kingdom. Those who don't come to God in this life will be tormented in the Lake of Fire until they too are ready to go to God. What that process entails is a mystery to us but its purpose is clear, to purify and restore souls to their original, perfect, state. Thereafter they too will be resurrected and given to God by Jesus. That's what the scriptures say.

 

[Grailhunter]

There are three biblical doctrines of the final judgment. Which one do you ascribe to?
- Damnationism
- Annihilationism
- Ultimate Redemption (UR)

None of them.

Why did you capitalize the "W" in "Word of God"?
Are you referring to the pre-incarnate Christ?

Not referring to the pre-incarnate Christ.
The capital W is more of a tradition than anything....denoting that the Word of God is more than ink on Paper.

Do you claim that there are no disagreements among Christians in regard
to translation problems, or differences in interpretive opinion?

There are 30,000 Protestant denominations....what do you think? LOL
Some think that Christ is a UFO Pilot......
But the fundamentals are pretty solid.

What makes something a "false belief" in your view? That you don't agree with it?
There is a pretty wide gamut of beliefs within Christianity. There is no consensus.

Belief in Christ is the only place that belief belongs.....
The rest you should know.....make it your business to know.
Because your soul and the soul of others may depend on it.
Christianity is serious business....your soul depends on it.
It is sad that there is a pretty wide gamut of beliefs in Christianity and that justifies nothing.

I am a theologian. Life long formal education in 5 countries.....Christianity is my religion, my study, my devotion, and LOL my hobby.
Agreeing with me is much smarter than disagreeing with me because I can prove what I say. I call my ministry the Johnny Appleseed of Truth. I believe that Christians at least deserve to see the truth....whether they believe it or not, or go check it, whether they like it or not. That is their business and it is between them and God. The reason I am good at knowing the truth....is that I do not care what it is. I did not start my study with preconceived notions...I know the scriptures backward and forewords I know the languages, I know the history, and I know the cultures. No stress in my ministry because I am casting seeds of truth. I do not have to cultivate them and Christ will do the harvesting.

Here's where I am coming from.
I respect anyone that has done their homework and arrived at a conclusion on these things.
Build bridges, not walls. Can you live with that? Or do you prefer to view me as an enemy?

I take Christianity seriously.
I have one set of enemies and that is Satan and his demons.
I am not accusing you of all of the false beliefs I mentioned they are just a list of the Devil's doctrines.
I will come down on you and others that teach these satanic doctrines for the sake of your soul and the soul of others.

 

[Taken]

We seem to be blind to what the church is doing to us.
Turning our loving heavenly Father into something that resembles
a gangster godfather, making us an offer we can't refuse.
The threat of hell as a fear tactic.

A gospel that looks like this:
Man #1: I have a free gift for you.
Man #2: Thanks, But I'm not interested.
Man #1: Not interested? I said it was free!
Man #2: I'm pretty sure there are some strings attached.
Man #1: Well, of course. But it's FREE!
Man #2: Not really, if there are strings attached.
Man #1: This is my final offer. Better take it now, or else!
Man #2: Uh... or else what?
Man #1: You will be incinerated!
Man #2: Seriously? What kind of free gift is that?

Since salvation is a gift, it should meet the criteria of a gift.
- It's free.
- You can't earn it.
- Nothing is expected in return.

If salvation fails to meet this criteria, it isn't a gift.

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.

God “OFFERS” Gifts and Blessings.
Of course God HAS “TERMS” for Accepting His Gifts...
“IT’S called According to Gods ORDER and WAY”.

Don’t LIKE Gods Offers, Gifts, Blessings, Terms, Order and Way?
Don’t Accept it.

Scripturally A WORK is a mans BELIEF.
...^ Mindful Belief can come and go.
...^ Heartful Belief can come and go.
(Scripture WARNS, of negative consequences for BELIEVING, and then NOT.)

Scripturally A SERVICE is a mans Heartful CONFESSION of BELIEF.
...^ THAT “USE” (OT), be “KEPT” by a mans “POWER, ENDURANCE”, to the DAY of that mans BODILY DEATH, (for him to Receive Salvation at THAT time).

Thereafter a man can DO a multitude of “works” to Glorify God...share Gods Word, praise God, help an other in need, etc. etc.....and THAT man shall receive REWARDS from God, FOR Glorifying God....(called storing up Treasures in Heaven).

THE NEW BETTER TESTAMENT, revealed by, through, of Christ Jesus; is a mans SERVICE of his HEARTFUL CONFESSION of BELIEF:
IS KEPT by, through, of THE POWER OF GOD, (His Spirit, entering INTO that man, (in short called; Baptism of the Holy Spirit.)
Once Saved, Saved Forever.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Why do you believe that God sends his children to eternal suffering? You seem to have a very low opinion of our creator.

UNSAVED men do NOT suffer eternally.

 

[Grailhunter]

What I really don't like is when the character of God is maligned.
Are you okay with that?

Judging God by your morality and measure is a serious mistake. What you think is right may not be what God thinks is right but, what God thinks is right is what you should learn.

 

[Grailhunter]

Sounds like the definition of tyranny.
What's wrong with this picture?

LOL You think you get a vote?
You think you can come up with your own beliefs?
Actually you can.....its just not called Christian or Christianity.
It is about the will of God....not yours.