A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

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ElieG12

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Antiwitnesses puppets bots is what we can see all over the internet.

Some of them are worse programmed than others, but all of them are programmed to spread hate and provoke verbal-hate crimes on the web.

They should be de-programed because of their lack of human principles... annihilated in the lake of fire of forum managers. :Oh no:
 
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Jack

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Antiwitnesses puppets bots is what we can see all over the internet.

Some of them are worse programmed than others, but all of them are programmed to spread hate and provoke verbal-hate crimes on the web.

They should be de-programed because of their lack of human principles... annihilated in the lake of fire of forum managers. :Oh no:
De-programmed from believing the Bible? JW's don't even believe their own bible that clearly confirms that Jesus is God and Hell fire is "forever and ever"!
 
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Starise

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A couple of obvious flags.
-Closed system
-Modified texts
-Close monitoring and indoctrination of participants

Reading other info, you know, to get the truth is discouraged. If it's true why protect it to such an extent? Why make it such a closed system?
We know why. Get out of it if you are in it.

Not saying these are bad people, just stating it's a religious con game that good people are trapped in. The people who are at the top are not good people trapped, they are false teachers soon going to judgement.
 
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The Learner

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Characteristics of High-Control and Cult Groups:

  1. There is opposition to critical thought…

High-Control Groups

  • The group has no official forum or channel for critical enquiry or for formally raising concerns, complaints and grievances. Failure to facilitate critical thought and to create times, spaces and procedures for criticism of the group and its leaders, is a sign that the leaders do not value the safety, perspectives and meaningful participation of members. If such a forum exists but is only accessible to certain members e.g. only male members or long-term members, this is just as concerning, since it is a clear admission on the part of the leadership that they are unwilling to hear or value the voices of many of their members.
  • Group leaders encourage questioning but only in the early stages of your association with the group, and only on their own terms. For example, they hold meetings where the leader/leaders are present and ready to use any question as a means of presenting pre-prepared arguments which affirm the dogma of the group. Like politicians, they are skilled in answering questions that haven’t really been asked and in constructing answers that may sound plausible but which rely on untested assumptions, assumptions that on closer inspection are themselves highly implausible. Such meetings give prospective members a false sense of security because they may be persuaded that their questions have been properly considered. They also serve to reinforce the beliefs of those already in full membership.
  • Group leaders will encourage you to check things out but they will steer you only in the direction of ‘approved’ sources, which defend the doctrine of the group. They will create the impression that these sources have wider recognition, acceptance and authority than they in fact do. Many of the books, authors and other sources will have been critiqued and discredited by subject experts at mainstream academic and research institutions and by the free investigative press. They will be written by the same narrow group of authors and published by the same few sympathetic publishing companies. Equally, group leaders will create the impression that certain other sources of information, which do not necessarily support their teachings, are unreliable or false, and these will include works by widely respected scientists, academics, researchers, journalists and other experts.

 

The Learner

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You are in a harmful cult or high-control group if:
There is opposition to critical thought,

And self-doubt is encouraged.

Magical thinking is prevalent,

And leaders claim to have special insight and supreme knowledge.

The leadership is authoritarian, charismatic and narcissistic,

And leaders are not accountable to other authorities.

There are draconian and intrusive rules for members,

But the leaders are above the law.

The flow of information is subject to censorship and control,

And the group as a whole is elitist, with an elite ‘inner circle’ at its core.

Threats are made against members who leave,

And outsiders or outsider groups are slandered and vilified.

Members become increasingly isolated from former companions,

And group identity takes precedence over (or replaces) individual identity.

The group performs secret rites and rituals,

And in general, their events involve mind-altering practices.

Members frequently experience feelings of shame, guilt, fear and dread,

And show zealous commitment, loyalty and dependence upon their leaders.

Groups have a preoccupation with new members and proselytising;

They target the vulnerable with ‘love-bombing’ and idealistic goals.

There is evidence of economic or financial exploitation,

And of punitive punishment, even physical abuse.

There is evidence of sexual exploitation,

And women, especially, are tightly controlled.

Deception is normalised, and the ends always justify the means.
 

The Learner

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2. The group suppresses skepticism
If you’re only allowed to study your organization through approved sources, you’re probably in a cult.
 

The Learner

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Brakelite

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For any JWs who may still be reading this thread...

Perhaps the words of Thomas were not inspired, but it is very noticeable that John, who was inspired (writing under the influence of the Holy Spirit), used them as a climax to all that he had previously written. It is noticeable too that there was no rebuke from Jesus to Thomas for saying these words. What Jesus did say, which can only be interpreted as an acceptance of the confession that Thomas made, was: “Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.” John 20:29 John began his Gospel with the confession that Christ is God (John 1:1). He brought it to a conclusion in exactly the same way. It is just as though he is saying to his readers: “After studying the evidence I have provided in my Gospel, what else can we do except to confess, as did Thomas, that Jesus is “My LORD and my God”. Note that at John 1:1 and 20:28, the word “God” is translated from the Greek word theos. It was immediately after writing about this admission of Thomas that John wrote “And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” John 20:30-31 It appears therefore that John used the confession of Thomas, also the response of Jesus to the words of Thomas, as one of these signs. This certainly brought his Gospel to its climax. Throughout his Gospel, John repeatedly makes reference to Christ as being the Son of God. He also cites Jesus as continually speaking of God as His Father. This is the golden thread that runs through his Gospel from beginning to end. The terminology the Son of God therefore is the equivalent of saying that Christ is God. The question remains though: How could Christ, in His pre-existence, be God, yet at the same time be with God? (John 1:1). Is He the same God as He was with (the Father) or is He a different God? The answer is found in Christ’s relationship to God – meaning in His Sonship.

Begotten of God
For Christ to be the divine Son of God He must be begotten (brought forth) of God. If He is not begotten (brought forth) of God then He can neither be a true Son nor truly God. Everything depends upon His Sonship to God. If Christ is deprived of His true Sonship then He is deprived of His true Godship (Godhood). John wrote in the prologue to his Gospel “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” John 1:14 “No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” John 1:18 John later wrote (relating the conversation that Jesus had with Nicodemus) “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16 “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:18 Amongst various scholars there is a consensus of opinion that the words found in the above two verses were not spoken by Jesus. This is because these scholars regard Christ’s conversation with Nicodemus as ending at verse 15. Whilst I am not going to debate this issue here, it is true to say that whichever way this is viewed, it does not detract from the fact that the Holy Spirit inspired John to write these words. This means that even if they were only John’s comments, they are as true as if Jesus Himself had spoken them. This author takes the view that Jesus did speak these words. John also wrote in one of his pastoral letters “In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.” 1 John 4:9 On two occasions with His own voice, God confirmed Christ’s Sonship to Himself. The first was at the baptism of Jesus. The second was at His transfiguration “And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:17 “While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.” Matthew 17:5

From the above it can be seen that this Sonship was not because of Christ’s human birth at Bethlehem but because of His pre-existent relationship with God. To put it another way: According to the Word of God, Christ had a pre-existent Sonship.

Monogenes: John describes Christ as “the only begotten of the Father” (John 1:14), “the only begotten Son” (John 1:18, 3:16), “the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:18) and God’s “only begotten Son” (1 John 4:9). On each occasion the Greek word translated “only begotten” is μονογενής (monogenes). John is the only Bible writer who uses this word with respect to Jesus. He uses it each time to denote the unique relationship between God and Christ (a father/son relationship). Luke and Paul used it in exactly the same manner (a parent/child relationship) although not with respect to Christ (Luke 7:12, 8:42, 9:38 and Hebrews 11:17). The basic meaning of monogenes is the only one of a generated kind or type. Applied to a child it generally means a parent’s only born son or daughter (of sole descent, without siblings). Some maintain that monogenes (an adjective) does not contain the idea of begetting. They say it only means unique. This view though, particularly in the light of how this word was used by those whose mother tongue was Greek, appears to have very little foundation. I am thinking primarily of those who formulated the creeds of Nicaea and Constantinople etc. The Creed of Nicaea (AD 325) begins by saying “We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things visible and invisible; And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten from the Father, only-begotten [monogenes], that is, from the substance of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, of one substance with the Father, through Whom all things came into being, things in heaven and things on earth,…” (Creed of Nicaea AD 325) By those who formulated this creed, Christ is said to be the “only-begotten” (monogenes) of the Father. This is exactly the same as say the Scriptures. This is why the creed also says that Christ is “begotten from the Father”, also “begotten not made”. In his Gospel, John clearly says that Christ is the only-begotten (monogenes) of God. The Greeks knew exactly what was meant by monogenes (μονογενής). In this creed it is contrasted with being made or created. The word translated “begotten” in these two clauses is the participle γεννηθέντα. It means literally begotten or born. It is very difficult to believe that the people who formulated this creed did not understand their own language. As recently as the 1980’s, the English Language Liturgical Commission (ELLC) completed a translation of the Nicene Creed. This new translation is said to be truer to the original Greek than many other English translations. The whole purpose of the ELLC is to translate as accurately as possible the various creeds and prayers etc. Their recent translation of the Nicene Creed says “We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father; through him all things were made”. (English Language Liturgical Commission, ‘The Nicene Creed’, ‘Praying Together’ page 9, 1988) It does appear that although the word begotten with reference to Christ was omitted from such as the Weymouth (1903) and Moffatt (1913) translations, the main thrust of doing this came in the late 1940’s/1950’s. This was with the publishing of the Revised Standard Version (RSV). John 3:16 is translated as “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16 RSV In principle, the thought that God did give His only Son is still preserved, but the word begotten, as in the KJV, is not included. This began a stir amongst many theologians. One though, a well-known Baptist minister (and Professor of Theology) by the name of Dale Moody, gave it his full support. Since then, many other modern translations such as the English Standard Version, the New International Version and the Holman Christian Standard, have followed suit. Some translations, like the latter two translations, have “one and only Son”. Interestingly, the Complete Jewish Bible renders John 3:16 as “only and unique Son” whilst Green’s Literal Translation, first published in 1985, has “only begotten Son”. The latter translation, for its Greek of the New Testament, used the Textus Receptus – as did the translators of the KJV. Why though, if John simply wanted to say one or one and only, did he use monogenes? I ask this because the Greek word monos means one or one and only (alone). He must therefore have had a specific reason for using monogenes (mono + genes). Some say that monogenes means unique, but this would not necessarily convey the idea that a child is the only begotten. This is because the child could have 5 brothers – all of whom have dark brown hair. He though (the monogenes child), if he had fair hair, would be unique. He would not be though the only-begotten.
To be continued....
 
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Brakelite

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Continued from above...

The lack of the word begotten at John 3:16 is not confined to modern versions. William Tyndale’s translation (1525) has “For God so loveth the worlde yt he hath geven his only sonne that none that beleve in him shuld perisshe: but shuld have everlastinge lyfe.” John 3:16 Tyndale 1525 Strangely though, in 3 of the 4 other places where John, with respect to Christ, uses monogenes, Tyndale did use begotten. This was at John 1:14, 1:18 and 1John 4:9. The remaining verse, John 3:18 (like 3:16) has “the only sonne of God”. No one knows why Tyndale omitted the word begotten at both John 3:16 and 3:18. In his notes he offers no explanation. What he does say though is the following (in 1530) “The new testament is those everlasting promises which are made us in Christ the Lord thorowout all the scripture. And that testament is built on faith and not on works. For it is not said of that testament he that worketh shall live: but he that believeth shall live, as thou readest John iii. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that none which believe in him should perish but have everlasting life.” (William Tyndale, Prologues to the Scriptures, A prologue in to the Second Book of Moses called Exodus, 1530) Here Tyndale clearly says that John 3:16 refers to Christ as “only begotten son”. John Wycliffe, 135 years earlier in his translation, did have begotten at John 3:16 (in 14th century English) “For God louede so the world, that he yaf his `oon bigetun sone, that ech man that bileueth in him perische not, but haue euerlastynge lijf.” John 3:16 Wycliffe 1395 In all the other places where John uses monogenes to describe Christ (John 1:14, 1:18, 3:18 and 1 John 4:9), Wycliffe’s translation has begotten. In many modern translations, all of these verses have been affected by the removal of begotten.
Terry Hill
 
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The Learner

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Matthew 14:33
Then the followers in the boat worshiped Jesus and said, “You really are the Son of God.”

Luke 24:52
They worshiped him and went back to Jerusalem very happy.

John 9:38
The man answered, “Yes, I believe, Lord!” Then he bowed and worshiped Jesus.

Hebrews 1:6
And then, when God presents his firstborn Son to the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

Revelation 4:10
the 24 elders bowed down before the one who sits on the throne. They worshiped him who lives forever and ever. They put their crowns down before the throne and said,
 

The Learner

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Revelation 4

Easy-to-Read Version

John Sees Heaven​

4 Then I looked, and there before me was an open door in heaven. And I heard the same voice that spoke to me before. It was the voice that sounded like a trumpet. It said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after this.” 2 Immediately the Spirit took control of me, and there in heaven was a throne with someone sitting on it. 3 The one sitting there was as beautiful as precious stones, like jasper and carnelian. All around the throne was a rainbow with clear colors like an emerald.
4 In a circle around the throne were 24 other thrones with 24 elders sitting on them. The elders were dressed in white, and they had golden crowns on their heads. 5 Lightning flashes and noises of thunder came from the throne. Before the throne there were seven lamps burning, which are the seven Spirits of God. 6 Also before the throne there was something that looked like a sea of glass, as clear as crystal.
In front of the throne and on each side of it there were four living beings. They had eyes all over them, in front and in back. 7 The first living being was like a lion. The second was like a bull. The third had a face like a man. The fourth was like a flying eagle. 8 Each of these four living beings had six wings. They were covered all over with eyes, inside and out. Day and night they never stopped saying,
“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God All-Powerful.
He always was, he is, and he is coming.”
9 These living beings were giving glory and honor and thanks to the one who sits on the throne, the one who lives forever and ever. And every time they did this, 10 the 24 elders bowed down before the one who sits on the throne. They worshiped him who lives forever and ever. They put their crowns down before the throne and said,
11 “Our Lord and God!
You are worthy to receive glory and honor and power.
You made all things.
Everything existed and was made because you wanted it.”
 
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