A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

[RLT63]

We seem to have a misunderstanding about who Christ really was.

I don’t

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I don’t

You don't what?

 

[RLT63]

You don't what?

I don’t have a misunderstanding about who Christ really IS

 

[Aunty Jane]

We seem to have a misunderstanding about who Christ really was.

That misunderstanding has been raging since the foretold apostasy began.
The "weeds" that Jesus warned about were to be sown by the devil "while men were sleeping", so Jesus uses this "sleeping" as not paying the proper attention to his teachings....a time when some would stand up and draw away the disciples after themselves......haven't we seen this happen in Christendom? Who then is teaching the truth? How can you tell?

An apostasy among professed Christians was foretold by the apostle Paul at 2 Thess 2:3. He specifically mentioned certain apostates, such as Hymenaeus, Alexander, and Philetus. (1 Tim 1:19, 20; 2 Tim 2:16-19)

The one thing satan loves to create is confusion.....and there is nothing more confused than Christendom when they each break away into different denominations, yet all claim to be "the body of Christ"......(2 Peter 2:1; Heb 6:4-6)....Paul once asked....."does the Christ exist divided?" (1 Cor 1:11-15)....in Christendom, he does.....but not in genuine Christianity. (1 Cor 1:10)

Whatever its apparent basis, whether intellectual, moral, or spiritual, apostasy constitutes a rebellion against God and a rejection of his Word of truth. (2 Thess 2:3-4) Its not about who sounds more convincing, but who teaches the truth and who has God's invitation. God chooses us as much as we believe we choose him. (John 6:65) We will all find out soon enough if we have passed the test.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I don’t have a misunderstanding about who Christ really IS

Yes RLT63 we understand who He says He Is according to the scriptures rightly divided, but we also understand that Jesus said GOD is a spirit, do you believe this is The Father also?

 

[RLT63]

Yes RLT63 we understand who He says He Is according to the scriptures rightly divided, but we also understand that Jesus said GOD is a spirit, do you believe this is The Father also?

Do I believe what is the Father also?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

That misunderstanding has been raging since the foretold apostasy began.
The "weeds" that Jesus warned about were to be sown by the devil "while men were sleeping", so Jesus uses this "sleeping" as not paying the proper attention to his teachings....a time when some would stand up and draw away the disciples after themselves......haven't we seen this happen in Christendom? Who then is teaching the truth? How can you tell?

An apostasy among professed Christians was foretold by the apostle Paul at 2 Thess 2:3. He specifically mentioned certain apostates, such as Hymenaeus, Alexander, and Philetus. (1 Tim 1:19, 20; 2 Tim 2:16-19)

The one thing satan loves to create is confusion.....and there is nothing more confused that Christendom when they each break away into different denominations, yet all claim to be "the body of Christ"......(2 Peter 2:1; Heb 6:4-6)....Paul once asked....."does the Christ exist divided?" (1 Cor 1:11-15)....in Christendom, he does.....but not in genuine Christianity. (1 Cor 1:10)

Whatever its apparent basis, whether intellectual, moral, or spiritual, apostasy constitutes a rebellion against God and a rejection of his Word of truth. (2 Thess 2:3-4) Its not about who sounds more convincing, but who teaches the truth and who has God's invitation. God chooses us as much as we believe we choose him. (John 6:65) We will all find out soon enough if we have passed the test.

Jane, I understand what you are saying, and I understand where the name Jehovah origin comes from I AM in the scriptures and I am sure you do also, but the Son/Word/Logos was in the beginning with the Father that you call Jehovah, is this your understanding?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Do I believe what is the Father also?

You just repeated my question back to me but isn't the Father GOD also?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jane, I understand what you are saying, and I understand where the name Jehovah origin comes from I AM in the scriptures and I am sure you do also,

We have done serious studies into the divine name of God, and found that "I Am" is not the correct translation of Exodus 3:14-15.
From the Jewish Tanakh, it reads....

"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"		יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:
God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"		ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation."		טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

The divine name has for centuries been disputed, because without God's permission, the religious leaders ceased from pronouncing his name and that pronunciation was lost, but the Tanakh reveals what God's name really means. This is not God simply identifying himself as existing because the Jews already knew that their God existed....they had seen his power in the 10 plagues on Egypt and in crossing the Red Sea, having that pillar of cloud and fire to guide them, day and night.....this was God adding meaning to his name in connection with his chosen nation.... he would "BE or "BECOME" whatever he needed to BE in order for his purpose to be fulfilled concerning them. It was a statement about his intentions....

This makes the connection with John 8:58 somewhat bogus, since Jesus never said "I AM".
"Abraham your father rejoiced greatly at the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.” 57 Then the Jews said to him: “You are not yet 50 years old, and still you have seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

Mistranslating this passage was meant to prove that Jesus was admitting to being deity, when that is not what he said.
He was answering a question about his age, not his status as a deity.
Going to Strongs Concordance, we can see that what Jesus said can mean "I was" or "I have been"...."I Am" is a present tense answer to a past tense question. Grammatically incorrect.
Jesus was saying that he existed before Abraham, which was the answer to their question. And "I AM" was not the meaning of God's name as the Jewish Tanakh indicates. I am guessing that they are the best judges on how to read Hebrew....?

Many believe that the Jews accused Jesus of claiming to be "God, but they did not. This is not obvious in English translations, but very obvious in the Greek....Jehovah (Yahweh) is identified in the Greek with the definite article "ho" meaning, "the". In every instance where Jehovah is meant, the definite article appears as I will highlight in the following verses.....where the definite article is missing when both Father and Son are mentioned in the same passage, Jehovah is identified with the definite article.

John 10:31-36....Mounce Interlinear....
31 The ho Jews Ioudaios again palin brought bastazō stones lithos to hina stone lithazō him autos. 32 Jesus Iēsous said apokrinomai to them autos, · ho “ I have shown deiknymi you hymeis many polys noble kalos works ergon from ek the ho Father patēr; for dia which poios one ergon of them autos do you intend to stone lithazō me egō?” 33 The ho Jews Ioudaios answered apokrinomai him autos, “It is not ou for peri a noble kalos work ergon that we intend to stone lithazō you sy but alla for peri blasphemy blasphēmia; · kai it is because hoti you sy, a mere man anthrōpos, are making poieō yourself seautou God theos.” 34 Jesus Iēsous answered apokrinomai them autos, · ho “ Is it eimi not ou written graphō in en · ho your hymeis law nomos, ‘ I egō said legō, you are eimi gods theos’? 35 If ei the scripture called legō them ekeinos ‘ gods theos’ to pros whom hos the ho word logos of ho God theos came ginomai— and kai scripture graphē cannot ou dynamai be annulled lyō · ho— 36 do legō you hymeis say legō regarding the one whom hos the ho Father patēr consecrated hagiazō and kai sent apostellō into eis the ho world kosmos, ‘ You are blaspheming blasphēmeō,’ because hoti I said legō, ‘ I am eimi the hyios Son of ho God theos’?

Then differentiation is subtle, but its there in plain sight...HO THEOS (the God) is Jehovah, and THEOS (a god or a divine one) is Jesus...he is the Son of "ho theos". The Jews were accusing him of claiming divinity, not because he was claiming to be God. He said plainly that he was "the Son of HO THEOS".
No one had greater claim to divinity than Jesus did.

According to Strongs, "theos" has as its primary definition..."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities".....Jesus fits that definition.

but the Son/Word/Logos was in the beginning with the Father that you call Jehovah, is this your understanding?

If the Father is eternal......what is this the "beginning of"? Jehovah had no beginning. We believe that the Father alone is eternal and that the "only begotten son" was his first and only direct creation, who was used by his Father in the creation of all other things. (Rev 3:14; John 1:2-3)
Creation came "THROUGH" him, not from him.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together." (Col 1:15-17)

This does not make Jesus the Creator, but the agency through whom creation was brought forth.

That is what we believe that the scriptures themselves teach.

 

[Wrangler]

We seem to have a misunderstanding about who Christ really was.

Hmmm. More like disagreement. 1 Tim 2:5-6 and Mark 1:1 make it perfectly clear who Jesus is; the long awaited Anointed by God who is our only mediator to God. He is the Christ, which is Greek for Messiah, which means anointed by God.

He is the suffering servant of Isaiah whose suffering would save many.

Note how Jesus is universally referred to in Scripture as being of God - son, servant, lamb, word. Jesus only says what his God tells him to say and how to say it. Jesus only does the Will of his God. Jesus obedience to our God is for us to model.

 

[Wrangler]

We have done serious studies into the divine name of God, and found that "I Am" is not the correct translation of Exodus 3:14

Putting that aside, @Peterlag pointed out that God never claimed his name was I AM.

He states his name in v15,

 

[Wrangler]

He was answering a question about his age, not his status as a deity.

The same with Paul. In another thread, it was discussed that Paul said I am the chief sinner. He was not claiming to be a deity.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

This makes the connection with John 8:58 somewhat bogus, since Jesus never said "I AM"

I disagree because of the translations' understanding.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Hmmm. More like disagreement. 1 Tim 2:5-6 and Mark 1:1 make it perfectly clear who Jesus is; the long awaited Anointed by God who is our only mediator to God. He is the Christ, which is Greek for Messiah, which means anointed by God.

He is the suffering servant of Isaiah whose suffering would save many.

Note how Jesus is universally referred to in Scripture as being of God - son, servant, lamb, word. Jesus only says what his God tells him to say and how to say it. Jesus only does the Will of his God. Jesus obedience to our God is for us to model.

Jesus has the right to say what He said because of who He is.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

We have done serious studies into the divine name of God, and found that "I Am" is not the correct translation of Exodus 3:14-15.
From the Jewish Tanakh, it reads....

"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"		יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:
God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"		ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation."		טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

The divine name has for centuries been disputed, because without God's permission, the religious leaders ceased from pronouncing his name and that pronunciation was lost, but the Tanakh reveals what God's name really means. This is not God simply identifying himself as existing because the Jews already knew that their God existed....they had seen his power in the 10 plagues on Egypt and in crossing the Red Sea, having that pillar of cloud and fire to guide them, day and night.....this was God adding meaning to his name in connection with his chosen nation.... he would "BE or "BECOME" whatever he needed to BE in order for his purpose to be fulfilled concerning them. It was a statement about his intentions....

This makes the connection with John 8:58 somewhat bogus, since Jesus never said "I AM".
"Abraham your father rejoiced greatly at the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.” 57 Then the Jews said to him: “You are not yet 50 years old, and still you have seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

Mistranslating this passage was meant to prove that Jesus was admitting to being deity, when that is not what he said.
He was answering a question about his age, not his status as a deity.
Going to Strongs Concordance, we can see that what Jesus said can mean "I was" or "I have been"...."I Am" is a present tense answer to a past tense question. Grammatically incorrect.
Jesus was saying that he existed before Abraham, which was the answer to their question. And "I AM" was not the meaning of God's name as the Jewish Tanakh indicates. I am guessing that they are the best judges on how to read Hebrew....?

Many believe that the Jews accused Jesus of claiming to be "God, but they did not. This is not obvious in English translations, but very obvious in the Greek....Jehovah (Yahweh) is identified in the Greek with the definite article "ho" meaning, "the". In every instance where Jehovah is meant, the definite article appears as I will highlight in the following verses.....where the definite article is missing when both Father and Son are mentioned in the same passage, Jehovah is identified with the definite article.

John 10:31-36....Mounce Interlinear....
31 The ho Jews Ioudaios again palin brought bastazō stones lithos to hina stone lithazō him autos. 32 Jesus Iēsous said apokrinomai to them autos, · ho “ I have shown deiknymi you hymeis many polys noble kalos works ergon from ek the ho Father patēr; for dia which poios one ergon of them autos do you intend to stone lithazō me egō?” 33 The ho Jews Ioudaios answered apokrinomai him autos, “It is not ou for peri a noble kalos work ergon that we intend to stone lithazō you sy but alla for peri blasphemy blasphēmia; · kai it is because hoti you sy, a mere man anthrōpos, are making poieō yourself seautou God theos.” 34 Jesus Iēsous answered apokrinomai them autos, · ho “ Is it eimi not ou written graphō in en · ho your hymeis law nomos, ‘ I egō said legō, you are eimi gods theos’? 35 If ei the scripture called legō them ekeinos ‘ gods theos’ to pros whom hos the ho word logos of ho God theos came ginomai— and kai scripture graphē cannot ou dynamai be annulled lyō · ho— 36 do legō you hymeis say legō regarding the one whom hos the ho Father patēr consecrated hagiazō and kai sent apostellō into eis the ho world kosmos, ‘ You are blaspheming blasphēmeō,’ because hoti I said legō, ‘ I am eimi the hyios Son of ho God theos’?

Then differentiation is subtle, but its there in plain sight...HO THEOS (the God) is Jehovah, and THEOS (a god or a divine one) is Jesus...he is the Son of "ho theos". The Jews were accusing him of claiming divinity, not because he was claiming to be God. He said plainly that he was "the Son of HO THEOS".
No one had greater claim to divinity than Jesus did.

According to Strongs, "theos" has as its primary definition..."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities".....Jesus fits that definition.


If the Father is eternal......what is this the "beginning of"? Jehovah had no beginning. We believe that the Father alone is eternal and that the "only begotten son" was his first and only direct creation, who was used by his Father in the creation of all other things. (Rev 3:14; John 1:2-3)
Creation came "THROUGH" him, not from him.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together." (Col 1:15-17)

This does not make Jesus the Creator, but the agency through whom creation was brought forth.

That is what we believe that the scriptures themselves teach.

Hello Aunty Jane, Also, What happens when you take away from the words of Jesus but accept your or someone else words for your understanding?

What does the Bible say about taking away from the word?


“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” (Deut. 4:2.)

In Revelation the apostle John gave clear instruction against those that adds or takes away from scripture: “ For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book” (Revelation 22:18-19).

 

[Aunty Jane]

I disagree because of the translations' understanding.

If the Jewish Tanakh translates the divine name as “I will be what I will be”, where does that lend credence to a translation of “I Am” and a connection to John 8:58? Jesus was answering a question about his age, not his status as a deity.

The primary definition of the Greek “theos” as used for ‘any god, goddess or divinity’, (understanding that the Greeks were a polytheistic nation) is not what most English speakers understand it to mean. Calling Jesus “theos” (god) can mean that his has divine authorisation, as the judges in ancient Israel were called “gods” by Jehovah himself, (John 10:31-36) which I showed you from the Greek Interlinear, the Jews were not accusing Jesus of claiming to be “ho theos”, but claiming his divinity.....his divine authorisation as “the son of God”, which is what he only ever called himself.

I know what the scriptures tell me, and it is vastly different to what Christendom told me in the church I grew up in....if we don’t do our own research, we will be trapped in with the devil’s “weeds” till the reapers arrive.

It’s time to wake up and see where the truth is.....the devil is not called a deceiver for nothing.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hello Aunty Jane, Also, What happens when you take away from the words of Jesus but accept your or someone else words for your understanding?

What does the Bible say about taking away from the word?

Can you show me where I have done this?
Do you understand that the “weeds” Jesus warned about were sown very early in Christian history, even surfacing in the days of the apostles. What “the church” did to Christianity even at that early stage set the scene for what was to come in the 4th century.....the institution of Roman Catholicism as the state religion of the Roman Empire, changed forever what “Christianity” originally meant. It became the mirror image of first century Judaism....teaching the “commands of men as doctrines”. (Matt 15:7-9)

“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” (Deut. 4:2.)

In Revelation the apostle John gave clear instruction against those that adds or takes away from scripture: “ For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book” (Revelation 22:18-19).

I believe we need to look further back....way back, to see when that took place.
Especially when scripture is translated is there opportunity for deception to creep in with translators rendering various verses with a particular bias that was designed to mislead.....

It is not the word of God that is at fault, but the way humans interpret its words in such a way as to add their own meaning to what was written all those centuries ago.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

This makes the connection with John 8:58 somewhat bogus, since Jesus never said "I AM".

Are you saying what Jesus said He is not? because He is saying who He is, and I would rather take His words instead of any.

 

[Wrangler]

Are you saying what Jesus said He is not? because is saying who He is.

Moving the goal posts. 1st it was a name. Now it is a claim of who he is - that is not explicitly stated. "I am" is not a specific statement of who one is but a general statement of existence. Who is ready for more wine? I am. Who can Identify the body? I am going to identify the body. Who's has to go to the John? I am.

"I am" is a common expression many say. It does not mean one is claiming to be a deity. That is a pure fictional invention. Jesus taught us to pray to our God - meaning his and our God - who was in heaven. He did not teach us to pray to him. Profound.

The Big Reveal of Jesus ministry is NOT that he was claiming anything but the Messiah. 3 times he confessed this:

1. to the woman at the well,
2. affirming Peter’s confession and
3. to Caiaphas; his great “I am.”

Mark 14:61-62 (VOICE)
High Priest: Are You God’s Anointed, the Liberating King, the Son of the Blessed One?
Jesus: I am.

Jesus did not die because he claimed to be anything else. This verse explicitly teaches that Jesus died because he claimed to be the Son of God. This is why Mark 1:1 and John 20:31 explicitly say that Jesus is the Son of the God, the Messiah, which is the central message of the Gospels.

 

[RLT63]

If the Jewish Tanakh translates the divine name as “I will be what I will be”, where does that lend credence to a translation of “I Am” and a connection to John 8:58? Jesus was answering a question about his age, not his status as a deity.

The primary definition of the Greek “theos” as used for ‘any god, goddess or divinity’, (understanding that the Greeks were a polytheistic nation) is not what most English speakers understand it to mean. Calling Jesus “theos” (god) can mean that his has divine authorisation, as the judges in ancient Israel were called “gods” by Jehovah himself, (John 10:31-36) which I showed you from the Greek Interlinear, the Jews were not accusing Jesus of claiming to be “ho theos”, but claiming his divinity.....his divine authorisation as “the son of God”, which is what he only ever called himself.

I know what the scriptures tell me, and it is vastly different to what Christendom told me in the church I grew up in....if we don’t do our own research, we will be trapped in with the devil’s “weeds” till the reapers arrive.

It’s time to wake up and see where the truth is.....the devil is not called a deceiver for nothing.

Yes the people who missed their messiah and deny him still today are the people we should look to for the best translation of the Old Testament.