A stranger to Christ

[tabletalk]

@pia @Job



The key for us is not in what pia saw that was not in the scriptures, but rather in what she has seen which is found in the scriptures. Not all of us can see all that is in the scriptures even though our carnal eyes have read them and our gray matter have processed what we read. It really does lie in the "eyes to see" and the "ears to hear" of which Jesus spoke.

Jesus expounded the parables to his immediate disciples, but he did not expound all of the parables unto those who read the scriptures today.
Where are the "eyes"? Where are the "ears"?

You said: "The key for us is not in what pia saw that was not in the scriptures, but rather in what she has seen which is found in the scriptures."
I think the key is in what Pia saw "that was not" in the Scriptures.
She, and mjrhealth, have seen and interacted personally with the man Jesus (not including visions and dreams).
After the ascension of Jesus, as far as I can tell, no one in the Scriptures has had that experience.
So, what is not in the Scriptures is this personal, private, face to face, interaction with a man called Jesus, after His ascension.
You said in post #13: "Pia is on the Lord's side whether you understand that or not." Maybe this is a discussion for another thread, but who is the Lord that she worships?

 

[Helen]

I think Paul mention being caught up to the third heaven and hearing things that he was not permitted to utter.
Maybe others too have had lesser dramatic experiences...just because we haven't, doesn't nullify their experience.
It is the life that they live and the fruit that shows ,which confirms who they spend their time with!
With some people it is pretty easy to tell that they don't spend much time with the Lord Himself. Maybe time with their bible, but not quietly in prayer in the Spirit.
Reflection....shows...much like sunburn does when being in the sun.
Just saying....

 

[bbyrd009]

Which one might that be.

well, let's just say that i am also thanking God that wisdom is hidden in plain sight from the wise

 

[amadeus]

You should still let people speak for themselves.

Just saying...

My friend, you know that I am not likely to change what I do for anyone but God. Sometimes He does speak to me through people and when He does I really do try to pay attention. If someone personally complains about me intervening for or against them, to that person I would listen as well.

 

[amadeus]

You said: "The key for us is not in what pia saw that was not in the scriptures, but rather in what she has seen which is found in the scriptures."
I think the key is in what Pia saw "that was not" in the Scriptures.

Because you have not had such an experience does not mean that no one else has. The scripture is full of them. If Moses using a different name [an alias] were to appear here telling about his experience with God in Exodus 33 many people would doubt him and even call him a liar. If he told them his real name, they would call him an impostor and a liar. Jesus in the flesh did have the same problem in the gospel accounts and would be treated likewise on this forum by too many.

Faith is:

"... is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Did faith stop when the written account in the Bible was penned?

She, and mjrhealth, have seen and interacted personally with the man Jesus (not including visions and dreams).
After the ascension of Jesus, as far as I can tell, no one in the Scriptures has had that experience.
So, what is not in the Scriptures is this personal, private, face to face, interaction with a man called Jesus, after His ascension.

"As far as you can tell" may be where the trouble lies. If you had searched there many such experiences recorded over the centuries since that time. But again along with Thomas you would want to see and touch the print of the nails before believing. Do recall what Jesus said to Thomas?

"... Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

Again, what is that faith is?

Perhaps the reason you have not seen such things or experienced them youself is because of you unbelief in the possibility?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

If we deny the possibility then likely in the things of God it makes it an impossibility for us...

You said in post #13: "Pia is on the Lord's side whether you understand that or not." Maybe this is a discussion for another thread, but who is the Lord that she worships?

Have you seen her heart so closely as that? You are it seems to be taking your own prejudices and lack of belief in certain things and using them to establish that she is in error. What do these verses say?

"But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:2-4

Are you one of His sheep? If yes, then have you not heard and recognized His voice? Why is that different than what @pia and @mjrhealth have told about themselves?

Look at the OT where Joshua thought he was helping Moses by denouncing those who also prophesied besides Moses himself:

"And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp.
And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them.
And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!" Num 11:27-29

 

[tabletalk]

Because you have not had such an experience does not mean that no one else has. The scripture is full of them. If Moses using a different name [an alias] were to appear here telling about his experience with God in Exodus 33 many people would doubt him and even call him a liar. If he told them his real name, they would call him an impostor and a liar. Jesus in the flesh did have the same problem in the gospel accounts and would be treated likewise on this forum by too many.

Faith is:

"... is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Did faith stop when the written account in the Bible was penned?



"As far as you can tell" may be where the trouble lies. If you had searched there many such experiences recorded over the centuries since that time. But again along with Thomas you would want to see and touch the print of the nails before believing. Do recall what Jesus said to Thomas?

"... Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

Again, what is that faith is?

Perhaps the reason you have not seen such things or experienced them youself is because of you unbelief in the possibility?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

If we deny the possibility then likely in the things of God it makes it an impossibility for us...



Have you seen her heart so closely as that? You are it seems to be taking your own prejudices and lack of belief in certain things and using them to establish that she is in error. What do these verses say?

"But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:2-4

Are you one of His sheep? If yes, then have you not heard and recognized His voice? Why is that different than what @pia and @mjrhealth have told about themselves?

Look at the OT where Joshua thought he was helping Moses by denouncing those who also prophesied besides Moses himself:

"And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp.
And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them.
And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!" Num 11:27-29

You quoted part of my post, and said: "Because you have not had such an experience does not mean that no one else has. The scripture is full of them."
Here's the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey used to say: I said: "After the ascension of Jesus, as far as I can tell, no one in the Scriptures has had that experience."
Maybe I'm wrong on that point. But, I did say "in the Scriptures" and "after the ascension", and I sure know there have been many since then who claim that type of experience. (this is why I sometimes put certain words in bold print, because people tend to miss things)
The verses you quoted above; "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" and "... Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29; are good exhortations for me to cling to faith in Christ, who I have not seen, and yet believed.

Then you said:
"If we deny the possibility then likely in the things of God it makes it an impossibility for us...
Have you seen her heart so closely as that? You are it seems to be taking your own prejudices and lack of belief in certain things and using them to establish that she is in error."

I do not deny their experiences. I do not know their hearts. I don't even have knowledge of what is possible for God to do, or not. I think by saving me, He did the impossible. I don't discuss what is , or is not , possible for God to do. Too much like philosophy for me.

 

[amadeus]

You quoted part of my post, and said: "Because you have not had such an experience does not mean that no one else has. The scripture is full of them."
Here's the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey used to say: I said: "After the ascension of Jesus, as far as I can tell, no one in the Scriptures has had that experience."
Maybe I'm wrong on that point. But, I did say "in the Scriptures" and "after the ascension", and I sure know there have been many since then who claim that type of experience. (this is why I sometimes put certain words in bold print, because people tend to miss things)
**************************************
I do not deny their experiences. I do not know their hearts. I don't even have knowledge of what is possible for God to do, or not. I think by saving me, He did the impossible. I don't discuss what is , or is not , possible for God to do. Too much like philosophy for me.

I do understand what you are saying and I won't personally fault you for your position. However, I do believe that one reason what is called "Christianity" is in as bad shape as it is, is because people who had faith early on, then for most part left it far behind as they continued their walk in this natural, carnal life. I would emphasize the "natural, carnal life" to include most of what most people who carry the Christian label actually practice in their day to day living.

 

[mjrhealth]

But again along with Thomas you would want to see and touch the print of the nails before believing

Hi Amadeus,

Thanks for teh post. Funny thing was I had received the Holy Spirit some 10 years or more before I gave my life to Jesus, it was a good many years after that ., I got to see Him, and I have constantly being reminded of that, believing without seeing, if I didnt believe I could not have received and yet I had not read a bible, my dad gave me His when I gave my life to teh Lord, so this having to read teh bible to know Him is pure fable. It was years before I got to look back at my life and understand what had happened and was happening.

There is also this bit,

"you have not because you ask not." I still ask daily to see Him again, all in His time.

Have a blessed day

 

[mjrhealth]

well, let's just say that i am also thanking God that wisdom is hidden in plain sight from the wise

Nice, but He wasnt thanking God for a problem, He was thanking God for teh solution, " they wont listen so we will use them instead".

 

[bbyrd009]

Nice, but He wasnt thanking God for a problem, He was thanking God for teh solution, " they wont listen so we will use them instead".

ok, regardless, a point might be that you are usually perceived as not being "thankful" at this

 

[Job]

this is why I sometimes put certain words in bold print, because people tend to miss things)

I had a lady tell me once that this method of posting caused her to see the scriptures in a whole new light.

 

[bbyrd009]

I had a lady tell me once that this method of posting caused her to see the scriptures in a whole new light.

i've heard of that before, bolding each phrase in a passage one at a time, pretty cool huh!

something similar can be done by Lexing each word, to make your own Amplified, or to maybe clarify a difficult passage

 

[pia]

@amadeus Thank you so much John .....I have not stopped being confused these past few decades of just how few Christians are happy to hear that Jesus is actually right with us whether we can see Him or not....It is a complete paradox to me ??
I was just thinking, through history we have had quite a few accounts of, supposedly the Virgin Mary popping up here and there ( I am guessing here that any 'person' showing up as a brilliant Light, would have been deemed by the Catholic church, to only be able to be Mary, or one of their selected other human saints ).....Isn't that just the strangest thing ? Some will accept that the human mother of Jesus can appear here in the form of Light, but the Resurrected Jesus may not ???? How does that make any sense what so ever ?
Thank you again... Bless you and your lovely wife, who I hope is improving by the day...

 

[pia]

Where would we be if the ones who penned the scriptures had that attitude?

You need not respond. I just want you to give that some thought.

The difference is, that the disciples were sharing what they had experienced with people who had not heard the Good News, I have been trying ( at times ) to share it with the ones who are supposed to HAVE HEARD..
I have not had the sort of opposition from unbelievers or those who needed to return to Him, as I have found on this forum. I find that very perplexing.......And you also Job I find very perplexing....I can't quite make up my mind if you are just someone who likes to s***-stir and laugh at the fall out, or if you seriously believe that I should just go ahead and blurt it all out, on a forum such as this, so that Jesus can become a stumbling block for those who have a hard time believing Him as Resurrected...Perhaps someone should do a teaching on what it means to be Resurrected ? Seems a rather important issue, as we are told we will be resurrected with Him, when the time comes.....

 

[pia]

You wont, but demand she does??

You should give that some thought.
There are probably many who read here, who have wonderful testimonies, but are unwilling to be torn apart but christians. You know how it goes.

Great point....this is no doubt why there is still so very much confusion and division

 

[Job]

And you also Job I find very perplexing....I can't quite make up my mind if you are just someone who likes to s***-stir and laugh at the fall out, or if you seriously believe that I should just go ahead and blurt it all out,

I want to know what this means. s***-stir

 

[pia]

I want to know what this means. s***-stir

Sorry, it's Aussie slang, and I didn't think it appropriate to spell it all out...It just means someone who likes to throw in a comment or alike, just to see if it can spark a problem between others....I have no idea if has ever been an actual occupation, although I do recall seeing a neighbor once , getting chicken manure for his yard, then mixing it with water and stirring it.
My only reason for even thinking that, is that you say that you too have had awareness of the 'other' side of things and that you wouldn't post it here, so I had to wonder why you are so insistent, that I should???

 

[Job]

My only reason for even thinking that, is that you say that you too have had awareness of the 'other' side of things and that you wouldn't post it here, so I had to wonder why you are so insistent, that I should???

Because you kept insisting you had this experience. It's like you believe if you say it enough times people will start believing you. Or maybe you're trying to talk yourself into believing it yourself. I don't know, and to be honest, I don't care.

The thing that rattled my cage is when you went after bible believers. Those of us who believe the bible is the inspired word of God. That wasn't nice and it surely wasn't righteous. You condemned a lot of people in your little rant.

But that's in the past, it's time move on.

 

[pia]

Because you kept insisting you had this experience. It's like you believe if you say it enough times people will start believing you. Or maybe you're trying to talk yourself into believing it yourself. I don't know, and to be honest, I don't care.

The thing that rattled my cage is when you went after bible believers. Those of us who believe the bible is the inspired word of God. That wasn't nice and it surely wasn't righteous. You condemned a lot of people in your little rant.

But that's in the past, it's time move on.

Never said it wasn't inspired. I said it doesn't replace whom we are told is The Living Word of God, who was made flesh...Died for us and Rose again on the 3rd. day........I am not ashamed of being able to say that it is the truth...

 

[Job]

Never said it wasn't inspired. I said it doesn't replace whom we are told is The Living Word of God, who was made flesh...Died for us and Rose again on the 3rd. day........I am not ashamed of being able to say that it is the truth...

Let it go.