A Woman's role within the Body:

[stunnedbygrace]

I find that you are mixing up the natural with the spiritual here.
And it confuses the issue.

It's always a problem for us, this mixing up of the spiritual and the natural! It's like one of those pictures that looks like one thing but if you stare intently at it you see a different picture. It depends on if you are looking at the black ink as being the picture or the white space around it.
We read the word with a bias towards the natural and not the Spirit
Or, as the apostle said once, you don't suppose God is talking about oxen there do you? (In regards to not witholding food from a treading ox.)

And in another place the same apostle was speaking about marriage but then said he was speaking of the mystery of Christ and His bride.

VIJ, you are on the right track in searching for the Spirit of the word. We are told that the word is spirit because God is Spirit. And that it is the spirit of the word that brings life while the letter brings death.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But VIJ, give epi some mercy. When he speaks of the hard things our Lord said, He gets a lot of grief. And he pushes back, as he should. But sometimes he gets tired and frustrated just as all humans do.

When he speaks things pleasing to the ear he is accepted well enough. But when he speaks of the harder things our Lord said, some don t want to hear. Which is to be expected. They marveled when Jesus stood up to read at the gracious words. A second later, at words meant to prick their hearts, they wanted to push Him off a cliff.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Because Rachel had a chore of tending sheep for her dad, the Bible approves of women in the office of pastor over men?



God didn't call them. They are in rebellion against God.



Rachel tended sheep because her dad raised sheep and back in the day, all the children dug in to help with the family business. Tending sheep is one of the least physically demanding jobs on a ranch. Assuming she tended sheep because she had no brothers to do it, we have no shortage of men to preach in churches (granted, good preachers are few and far between, men who know the Bible and are willing to boldly speak the truth, rather than teaching nonsense and delivering fluff sermons or teaching nonsense).




Yes, I have a revelation that God does not call women to be pastors. "Women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says... If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord

Rachel kept her father’s sheep...that is what the word said.

God is no respecter of persons but works in miraculous ways, ways opposite of how the world operates.

1 Corinthians 12:20-25
[20] But now are they many members, yet but one body. [21] And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. [22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: [23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Rachel kept her father’s sheep...that is what the word said.

God is no respecter of persons but works in miraculous ways, ways opposite of how the world operates.

1 Corinthians 12:20-25
[20] But now are they many members, yet but one body. [21] And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. [22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: [23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

Men would have you think He is no respecter of persons but that concerning male or female, He is!
Even though the apostle said we are not to look at each other any more as male or female, slave or free.

Don't let anyone take away your freedom in Christ sister. Don't let them yoke you again. They seek to make Paul's words into a new law to yoke you.

Stride forward in the Spirit and leave them to the letter they desire.

 

[bbyrd009]

no matter what you do, someone will be upset i guess

 

[Episkopos]

Men would have you think He is no respecter of persons but that concerning male or female, He is!
Even though the apostle said we are not to look at each other any more as male or female, slave or free.

Don't let anyone take away your freedom in Christ sister. Don't let them yoke you again. They seek to make Paul's words into a new law to yoke you.

Stride forward in the Spirit and leave them to the letter they desire.

The OP is not precise enough to not cause some confusion...

A woman's role is not the same as the role of a wife. So these are not the same. We got going on the role of a wife...whereas the role of a woman was getting mixed up in that.

So then in Christ there is neither male not female. But in marriage there is. There is a husband and a wife.

Spiritual life is for all. Marriage is not.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And it's best not to marry! But if you have already married before you meet Him, you should not leave. But your going to have a harder time, having to make a spouse happy rather than devoting more time to God. But if your spouse has also met God, it might be easier because they should be devoted to God firstfirst to...☺

 

[Vexatious]

And it's best not to marry! But if you have already married before you meet Him, you should not leave. But your going to have a harder time, having to make a spouse happy rather than devoting more time to God.

Devoting time to a spouse is devoting time to God, because it is part of living as God would have us live. And, it's not a harder time, if you marry right. It's a much easier time.

It is best to marry, because people have sexual and other needs that should be fulfilled within the context of marriage. (Christians should abandon legal marriage, as the US government has destroyed marriage as anything Christians should be part of. Christians need a private alternative to call marriage.)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Devoting time to a spouse is devoting time to God, because it is part of living as God would have us live. And, it's not a harder time, if you marry right. It's a much easier time.

It is best to marry, because people have sexual and other needs that should be fulfilled within the context of marriage. (Christians should abandon legal marriage, as the US government has destroyed marriage as anything Christians should be part of. Christians need a private alternative to call marriage.)

was pau l wrong then, eh?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The OP is not precise enough to not cause some confusion...

A woman's role is not the same as the role of a wife. So these are not the same. We got going on the role of a wife...whereas the role of a woman was getting mixed up in that.

So then in Christ there is neither male not female. But in marriage there is. There is a husband and a wife.

Spiritual life is for all. Marriage is not.

You said “Spiritual life is for all. Marriage is not.” Hesitate to agree here. Spiritual life can only come through marriage. We must be joined to Christ and become of His body and of His bride(wife) otherwise there is no birth from above. For instance Paul was married (joined) to a husband and had many wives he tended to and oversaw and many children. Often Paul spoke of being a Father to many. It is important because widows can have a husband and hope in that a partnership has not ceased for them. Those single physically and where “marriage” in the natural may not be their path, they can also have a husband (Spiritually). So maybe: Spiritual life is for all. And marriage is also for all when pertaining to God.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Widows and childless women can have many children too!
They have some they probably aren't even aware of and may one day say, where did all of these children come from - I had no idea!

Childless women also ask God to give them children lest they die!

 

[Frank Lee]

Of women and marriage here's scripture that puzzles me.

1 Timothy 5:11-14 KJVS
But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; [12] Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. [13] And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. [14] I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

Why is it wanton for a young widow to remarry? No adultery is involved. Every young widow that remarried is not an idle gossip and busy body.

When I see young widows whose husband has been killed in the military, of which there are many, I fail to see how their remarrying is a sin against God. Especially when there are small, fatherless children.

Why is remarriage a casting off of your faith?

There are puzzling things in these passages that make no sense. I often get the sense that Paul was of the Middle Eastern mindset that has an ingrained disdain or superior attitude over women. Not in the way of honoring them as the weaker vessel but in a condescending manner.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Here's scripture that puzzles me.

1 Timothy 5:11-14 KJVS
But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; [12] Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. [13] And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. [14] I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

Why is it wanton for a young widow to remarry? No adultery is involved.

Wfy is remarriage a casting off of your faith?

There are puzzling things in these passages that make no sense.

i think its...sort of like...saying that they put widows on a list, to care for them. The widows devoted the rest of their lives to God, leaving behind their former life in a sense. But if you accepted a younger widow to the list, she still has some of the desires and excesses of youth and would cause problems, going back to her former life in remarriage instead of remaining devoted fully to God from that point on. I think it's a caution, but not a written in stone sort of thing.

 

[Frank Lee]

The widows I've known were faithful women. Hard working etc. I have seen the other variety also though. With people we can never put them in a one size fits all suit.

In the world we see women putting their children in jeopardy by hooking up with men that are unfit just to keep from being alone. Often these unions are tragic for the women and their children. There are things much worse than being unmated and alone.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Rachel tended sheep because her dad raised sheep and back in the day, all the children dug in to help with the family business. Tending sheep is one of the least physically demanding jobs on a ranch. Assuming she tended sheep because she had no brothers to do it, we have no shortage of men to preach in churches (granted, good preachers are few and far between, men who know the Bible and are willing to boldly speak the truth, rather than teaching nonsense and delivering fluff sermons or teaching nonsense).

Rachel tending her Father’s sheep may have more significance than being random.

A well in a field. Three flocks wait beside it for water. A great Stone was upon the well’s mouth. Genesis 29:1-2 “Then Jacob went on his journey, and came into the land of the people of the east. [2] And he looked, and behold a well in the field, and, lo, there were three flocks of sheep lying by it; for out of that well they watered the flocks: and a great stone was upon the well's mouth.”

When the flocks were gathered together, the shepherds would roll the stone away from the mouth of the well.

Behold, Rachel comes with the sheep. Only is high day and not time to gather the sheep! Genesis 29:7 “And he said, Lo, it is yet high day, neither is it time that the cattle should be gathered together: water ye the sheep, and go and feed them .”

Jacob rolls the stone away from the mouth of the well. Jacob works for Rachel for seven years but is tricked and given Leah instead. “That is not how it is done in our country” to give the younger first. But rather the older first then the younger. : but that which is natural comes first and then that which is spirit. Genesis 29:26-27 “And Laban said, It must not be so done in our country, to give the younger before the firstborn. [27] Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years.”

Jacob works another seven years for Rachel.

Genesis 29:31
[31] And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren. “Judges 13:3 “And the angel of the Lord appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.”

Leah conceives:
1) Reuben, because the Lord has looked upon my affliction. (Behold, a son).
2)Simeon, The Lord heard I am hated, he has given me this son. (Heard, listening, obedient)
3)Levi, I have bore my husband three sons. (attached, pledged).
4) Judah, I will praise the name of the Lord. (Praise). THEN she ceased bearing.

Into the kingdom of God: the Spirit (younger) enters into first...then that which is natural enters in. Opposite of here when that which is natural comes first then that which is spiritual.

Rachel(the youngest) kept her father’s sheep. The great stone that covers the mouth of the well that waters the sheep being rolled away, the three flocks, the it not being time to gather the flocks yet, and Jacob working for both sisters... there is a lot here. It is not about gender or using “Rachel” to prove a point for gender roles: Rachel is(represents) a group that do indeed tend the sheep of their Father.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't think the apostle was saying to not help young widows at all. I think it was more like a...Don't accept them into the complete...program of the work. Perhaps like seeing to food at gatherings, helping to run certain charity programs, or whatever work they were given to do. Because they might leave to remarry, deciding that maybe they really weren't ready to devote their entire efforts to the body and the gathering...

 

[bbyrd009]

not literal young widows prolly iow

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Literal...But not written in stone that a younger widow will always go back to the world. She would and could have proven her mindset. I would have volunteered to help and stayed steadily at it until they saw my firmness and singlemindedness and admitted me to the work.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Of women and marriage here's scripture that puzzles me.

1 Timothy 5:11-14 KJVS
But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; [12] Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. [13] And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. [14] I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

Why is it wanton for a young widow to remarry? No adultery is involved. Every young widow that remarried is not an idle gossip and busy body.

When I see young widows whose husband has been killed in the military, of which there are many, I fail to see how their remarrying is a sin against God. Especially when there are small, fatherless children.

Why is remarriage a casting off of your faith?

There are puzzling things in these passages that make no sense. I often get the sense that Paul was of the Middle Eastern mindset that has an ingrained disdain or superior attitude over women. Not in the way of honoring them as the weaker vessel but in a condescending manner.

Frank consider the young widows are those freed from the Law, they begin to wax wanton against Christ and return to bondage.

Hebrews 6:4-6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

2 Peter 2:20-22
[20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. [21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it , to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. [22] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Episkopos]

You said “Spiritual life is for all. Marriage is not.” Hesitate to agree here. Spiritual life can only come through marriage. We must be joined to Christ and become of His body and of His bride(wife) otherwise there is no birth from above. For instance Paul was married (joined) to a husband and had many wives he tended to and oversaw and many children. Often Paul spoke of being a Father to many. It is important because widows can have a husband and hope in that a partnership has not ceased for them. Those single physically and where “marriage” in the natural may not be their path, they can also have a husband (Spiritually). So maybe: Spiritual life is for all. And marriage is also for all when pertaining to God.

Physical marriage.