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Featured A Woman's role within the Body:

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by VictoryinJesus, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    I've been struggling the past couple of days with 1 Corinthians 14:33-35. It doesn't offend like it once did when I first came to Him. "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. [34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. [35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

    First this verse is confusing because, as a woman and wife I am no longer Judged by the law but rather Judged by Christ. For me, the church is not within a building but I fully accept church as anywhere and anytime the body gathers together in His name. Whether it be three or more. So, I am to keep silence when the body gathers and ask my husband at home. Silence always when the body gathers?? That is a lot to ask. Almost, nearly impossible. But Paul seems to say it is profitable to abide in this.

    I do realize there is a spiritual meaning here in that each one of us when joined unto the body...become the woman(the Proverbs woman) under submission to Her Head which is Christ. We have all, all those no longer under the Old Covenant of works in the flesh have been "beheaded" for His name's sake. Consider the profound imagery of John as his way(man's way) decreases for Christ...who IS the way to increase. Matthew 14:10-12 "And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison. [11] And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother. [12] And his disciples came, and took up the body, and buried it, and went and told Jesus."

    The Spiritual application of all women remaining silent within the churches and asking their husband at home becomes (Men and Women) of the bride in submission to (their)head of the body; is to remains silent and ask of their husband at home. No doubt many martyrs have been beheaded for His name sake but even in doing so, it was not the open display of their eagerness to suffer pain but their eagerness to declare submission to their head which is GOD. Not all are martyrs physically, but we all are "beheaded" for the sake of the gospel and given a new Head which is Christ. The Old Covenant as Head is cutoff in sight of a better way, a better Covenant which is Christ. As John the Baptist knew this temporal imprisonment and beheading took on a whole new level of allegiance to the Spiritual in "I must decrease". Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

    What does that have to do with A Woman and silence in the churches? In 1 Timothy 2:12-15
    the word says, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. [13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. [15] Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

    Again, I can see this fully demonstrates the body of Christ's submission to its Head in not usurping authority over Christ and allowing Him( the Spirit) to teach rather than the flesh. Zechariah 2:13 "Be silent, O all flesh, before the Lord : for he is raised up out of his holy habitation." The Woman being saved in childbearing through Christ.

    So, this morning I think I have my confirmation. I've been feeling for sometime now that God is leading me to write solely for women and to participate in workshops for women and if I am going to teach...it will be to teach women to love their husbands and children including (Christ and His body also). Again, I realize that the above verses have spiritual meaning and purpose but that doesn't mean there is not a better way in abiding in them. What is the struggle then? It may mean backing away from the forum since I do not know where posting and debating scripture with men fits within those verses and a woman's role to Her Head.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    First when Paul says a "woman" he means "a wife"...not just a woman per se. In Greek there is no word for "wife" besides "woman".

    It is the same in French and I'm sure other languages as well.

    Back in the day they had this thing called honour. It was dishonourable for a man to be seen as under the authority of his wife.

    Women are free in Christ. But they also ought to honour their husbands.

    It says...."husbands, love your wives"....but it doesn't say "wives, love your husbands".....no, rather it says to honour their husbands.

    This is the importance of a wife giving a good example of authority...as a picture of Christ and the church.

    A woman is free to do as she wishes, but with honour towards her husband. If she is unable to do that...then it is better to keep silent.

    Of course we are talking about followers of Christ.

    Those who don't follow Christ will follow whatever worldly trend happens to be in vogue at the time. They will deny the word...
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
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  3. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Brother! Yet some more manmade mass confusion of Scripture.
     
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  4. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Use scripture...not human understanding or opinion. Dust off that bible...or use the on-line bibles.
     
  5. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    1 Peter 3:7
    [7] Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

    Can you please give scripture that says a woman is to Honour? Does it not say the wife is to be in subjection? 1 Peter 3:5
    [5] For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

    Why does Paul say a woman should follow this still? “...as also saith the law”? 1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
     
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  6. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Have you been beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God? Yes or No?
     
  7. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
    23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
    24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
    25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
    26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
    27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
    28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
    29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
    30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
    31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
    32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
    33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
     
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  8. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    His bride, as the weaker vessel, what does He bestow upon Her ...Is it not Honour. Vessel of Honour ... or vessels of Shame. Did He not bear our shame so that we could be a vessel unto Honour?
     
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  9. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    There again “submit” as also “be into subjection to”. The Husband Honours the wife as the weaker vessel, as unto Honour. It is what HE did for us...don’t deminish it.
     
  10. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Only if we let go our human propensity to lean on our own understanding there by creating iniquity. Then, yes....once purged and renewed in our minds...we are fit for honour.
     
  11. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    A man of honour does all things with honour.
     
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  12. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea how your words impact a person...do you? You preach humility yet don’t show it unless you are in the right. As long as someone agrees with you then you remain charming but the second someone doesn’t agree with everything you say, they are without Christ and stand condemned. You say you are in the lower seat but take the higher one in saying you know everything there is to know of God, and unless we agree a hundred percent...we stand condemned. You say you love, but only those that feed your ego. You say you are not religious but you are the worst kind of religious in tearing everyone that doesn’t align with you down. That is a vessel of destruction. That is what a vessel of destruction does..it destroys. I may be stupid but the first post I ever read of yours I was so interested in hearing what God was saying to you about His word but lost all interest the moment you immediately starting implying I stand condemned. Say I am wrong about a passage. I’ll listen but if Judge me one more time as not being a daughter of HIS... You are not the authority over me. You’ve hurt my feelings repeatedly. Crushed them even. Not in saying I am wrong but in implying repeatedly as if God does not love me. You’ve torn down my confidence in that I even hear God or ever could. You make me feel completely worthless and incapable and that is no good for faith. That is not edification but the opposite. I’m sorry but I don’t see humility...I see someone that has to be right and that is religion.
     
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  13. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    @VictoryinJesus
    You will wear yourself out trying to understand things.
    Peace in your walk with the Lord comes when we are listeners.
    Just get a new little journal and in the morning allow Father to show you His love and Himself.
    This is just an old lady's advise.

    I just notice that most of your OP's are complex and you are struggling to understand things.
    Our times with Father should not be a struggle but a feeding and a joy...
    If it doesn't bring you joy then it is just mind clutter.

    Problem solved if we really believe that - In Christ there is neither male or female

    Gal 3:28-29
    "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

    The Spirit has no gender or divisions...

    Peace....H
     
  14. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    @VictoryinJesus

    You are not a daughter of God....you are a son of God. :)
    Be strong and clothed with your armour my friend. x
     
  15. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    To what do I owe this reaction to? I said....honour. That's all.
    You are judging my motive here. Things must be brought down before things can be edified. If I don't continue to build on a faulty foundation...you call that a lack of love?!

    We are to speak the truth in love...but the truth nevertheless.

    The bible truth is not negotiable.
    I am truly sorry to hear this. My intent is always to build up. Maybe it's how you come across in your writing?

    I am attacked all day long...and accused of the very things that people do to me. So if you attack me without cause...rather than just asking for clarity you may not feel the love in the short term.

    But it is there. :)
    I think you have gotten into the posting culture here...so that you say things that are hard and judgmental...but expect only gentleness in return.

    I am sorry if I offended you... :(

    You know I'm very surprised when anyone agrees with what I say. People HATE what I have to say. :)

    If you don't also hate what I'm saying...then please don't sound as if you do. That would help me a lot!

    People can be wooed to the religious side of things. Are you still teetering in that direction?

    <><

    John
     
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  16. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    It is good advice. Thank you.
     
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  17. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    In the main...women are more spiritual than men. Jesus was supported by women. The first witnesses of Jesus' resurrection...were women.

    But although women are the weaker vessel...they have a high place in the kingdom of God. The role of a woman is to help men to SEE what love, gentleness....basically what the fruit of the Spirit looks like. They are to be witnesses of Christ.....but in the gentleness of their character. In their love, faith and devotion. Men are usually pretty blunt objects in this regard.

    Woman can teach men a lot...but not in a confrontation with men. A woman HATES to be treated like a man in confrontation. So then a woman should NOT try acting like a man.

    The woman is a picture of the glorious Bride of Christ.

    The godly woman is a treasure beyond any comparison in this world.

    Men need to see this and stop from their brutish behaviour.

    So then we men need women to show us the way and teach us...just not with words or confrontation. We need to see women as a guide to how we are to be before the Lord. That is how God arranged things.

    Not to discourage men...there are some things that are easier for men to understand...well, at least for men in another time.
    Things like virtue (manliness and courage), honour, authority....men can usually (not so much in modern times) get these. Men, at a certain time, exemplified these qualities.

    There is so much perversion these days, where men are either effeminate...OR very brutish. And women are disrespectful of men and competitive.

    But let us look to God and take the rightful place that God has ordained for us, to the praise and glory of His name.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  18. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    I get this and obviously there is something there in me that needs to come down. I’m not saying you are right but I have been praying to God asking what needs to be seen in this on my part. Obviously I care to much what others think instead of caring what God says. It was more than one post...it had been building for days now; the always little comments snuck in that took me back to my childhood when there was always a little comment snuck in to point out a lack of value. I am sorry; it is not really you but you struck a definite nerve.


    I guess this is why women aren’t supposed to teach...I do have emotions.
     
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  19. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I find that you are mixing up the natural with the spiritual here.
    And it confuses the issue.
     
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  20. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    No problem my sister! :)
     
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