A Woman's role within the Body:

[Vexatious]

Of women and marriage here's scripture that puzzles me.

1 Timothy 5:11-14 KJVS
But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; [12] Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. [13] And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. [14] I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

Why is it wanton for a young widow to remarry? No adultery is involved. Every young widow that remarried is not an idle gossip and busy body.

Paul is teaching the church to support elderly widows who serve the church.

Paul isn't objecting to young widows remarrying. He's pointing out that out of sexual desire, they'll remarry rather than devoting themselves to serving the church.

Many apostate churches teach that churches exist to give out welfare (even to able-bodied people). They've replaced the Bible-themed art in their buildings with pictures of 3rd-world kids. Churches don't exist to give out welfare. Paul is advocating supporting elderly widows in exchange for the services they provide. The young widows won't provide much in the way of services.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Paul is teaching the church to support elderly widows who serve the church.

Paul isn't objecting to young widows remarrying. He's pointing out that out of sexual desire, they'll remarry rather than devoting themselves to serving the church.

Many apostate churches teach that churches exist to give out welfare (even to able-bodied people). They've replaced the Bible-themed art in their buildings with pictures of 3rd-world kids. Churches don't exist to give out welfare. Paul is advocating supporting elderly widows in exchange for the services they provide. The young widows won't provide much in the way of services.

Maybe so but one has to acknowledge 1 Timothy 5:5-6 “Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day. [6] But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.”

Matthew 23:38 “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.” desolate and a widow...belongs to Christ and is to trust in God. Galatians 4:27 “For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.” Now consider 1 Timothy 5:6 again “But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.”

Yes...out of “sexual desire” they will return to what in lust? These “widows”. They wax wanton against Christ. It has nothing to do with sex pertaining to Christ but return to what they have been brought (led) free from by Christ. They will remarry (adultery), what they were set free from. 1 Timothy 5:11-12 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; [12] Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

1 Timothy 5:14
[14] I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. “...bear children, guide the house,..” ...guide what house?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think is very good.☺

I think some will understand what you have seen here.
others will argue that you are saying it is a sin to remarry if your husband dies.

 

[Kristen Davis]

...or the married and single?

This is a Christian forum.

If it was a wrestling forum I would be talking about taking down an opponent with a certain move, perhaps.

But this is about God's design. So it works when applied....to any and all. It's just that Christians are supposed to exemplify what we read about in the bible.

Proverbs 18:22 he who finds a wife!

 

[quietthinker]

Proverbs 18:22 he who finds a wife!

Finding one hasn't happened. I wonder if buying one is any easier?

 

[Enoch111]

Finding one hasn't happened. I wonder if buying one is any easier?

Sitting under the shade of a coconut tree won't do you much good. You have to be proactive.

 

[quietthinker]

Sitting under the shade of a coconut tree won't do you much good. You have to be proactive.

yeah, I suppose a couple of coconuts don't buy much.

 

[ScottA]

I've been struggling the past couple of days with 1 Corinthians 14:33-35. It doesn't offend like it once did when I first came to Him. "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. [34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. [35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

First this verse is confusing because, as a woman and wife I am no longer Judged by the law but rather Judged by Christ. For me, the church is not within a building but I fully accept church as anywhere and anytime the body gathers together in His name. Whether it be three or more. So, I am to keep silence when the body gathers and ask my husband at home. Silence always when the body gathers?? That is a lot to ask. Almost, nearly impossible. But Paul seems to say it is profitable to abide in this.

I do realize there is a spiritual meaning here in that each one of us when joined unto the body...become the woman(the Proverbs woman) under submission to Her Head which is Christ. We have all, all those no longer under the Old Covenant of works in the flesh have been "beheaded" for His name's sake. Consider the profound imagery of John as his way(man's way) decreases for Christ...who IS the way to increase. Matthew 14:10-12 "And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison. [11] And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother. [12] And his disciples came, and took up the body, and buried it, and went and told Jesus."

The Spiritual application of all women remaining silent within the churches and asking their husband at home becomes (Men and Women) of the bride in submission to (their)head of the body; is to remains silent and ask of their husband at home. No doubt many martyrs have been beheaded for His name sake but even in doing so, it was not the open display of their eagerness to suffer pain but their eagerness to declare submission to their head which is GOD. Not all are martyrs physically, but we all are "beheaded" for the sake of the gospel and given a new Head which is Christ. The Old Covenant as Head is cutoff in sight of a better way, a better Covenant which is Christ. As John the Baptist knew this temporal imprisonment and beheading took on a whole new level of allegiance to the Spiritual in "I must decrease". Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."​

What does that have to do with A Woman and silence in the churches? In 1 Timothy 2:12-15
the word says, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. [13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. [15] Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

Again, I can see this fully demonstrates the body of Christ's submission to its Head in not usurping authority over Christ and allowing Him( the Spirit) to teach rather than the flesh. Zechariah 2:13 "Be silent, O all flesh, before the Lord : for he is raised up out of his holy habitation." The Woman being saved in childbearing through Christ.

So, this morning I think I have my confirmation. I've been feeling for sometime now that God is leading me to write solely for women and to participate in workshops for women and if I am going to teach...it will be to teach women to love their husbands and children including (Christ and His body also). Again, I realize that the above verses have spiritual meaning and purpose but that doesn't mean there is not a better way in abiding in them. What is the struggle then? It may mean backing away from the forum since I do not know where posting and debating scripture with men fits within those verses and a woman's role to Her Head.

Don't back away, for it is not for that reason that women have been assigned such a roll. Where the Headship is clearly Christ, men have no headship over women within the body. The leadership rolls of men in the church are only for the sake of non-members, those outside the body. On a forum such as this, we come together as equals, none is head. If the leaders of the forum choose to limit their authoritative staff to men, that would be in keeping with portraying the Head as male, just as Christ is the Groom and the church His bride.

As for the silence...what Paul wrote, he did according to the traditions and problems occurring at that time, but God did not prompt him for the same reason. God's reason was indeed spiritual. Which was to be discerned by all who have the Holy Spirit, not as a matter of gender at all, but clearly to say that what is spoken within the church is only to be from God (the Head).

Is it just the word of God we hear spoken in the church today? No...and this is true because many speak and teach without the Holy Spirit, and many are their followers.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I agree with so much of what ScottA said here.

I've been struggling the past couple of days with 1 Corinthians 14:33-35. It doesn't offend like it once did when I first came to Him. "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. [34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. [35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

First this verse is confusing because, as a woman and wife I am no longer Judged by the law but rather Judged by Christ. For me, the church is not within a building but I fully accept church as anywhere and anytime the body gathers together in His name. Whether it be three or more. So, I am to keep silence when the body gathers and ask my husband at home. Silence always when the body gathers?? That is a lot to ask. Almost, nearly impossible. But Paul seems to say it is profitable to abide in this.

I do realize there is a spiritual meaning here in that each one of us when joined unto the body...become the woman(the Proverbs woman) under submission to Her Head which is Christ. We have all, all those no longer under the Old Covenant of works in the flesh have been "beheaded" for His name's sake. Consider the profound imagery of John as his way(man's way) decreases for Christ...who IS the way to increase. Matthew 14:10-12 "And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison. [11] And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother. [12] And his disciples came, and took up the body, and buried it, and went and told Jesus."

The Spiritual application of all women remaining silent within the churches and asking their husband at home becomes (Men and Women) of the bride in submission to (their)head of the body; is to remains silent and ask of their husband at home. No doubt many martyrs have been beheaded for His name sake but even in doing so, it was not the open display of their eagerness to suffer pain but their eagerness to declare submission to their head which is GOD. Not all are martyrs physically, but we all are "beheaded" for the sake of the gospel and given a new Head which is Christ. The Old Covenant as Head is cutoff in sight of a better way, a better Covenant which is Christ. As John the Baptist knew this temporal imprisonment and beheading took on a whole new level of allegiance to the Spiritual in "I must decrease". Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."​

What does that have to do with A Woman and silence in the churches? In 1 Timothy 2:12-15
the word says, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. [13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. [15] Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

Again, I can see this fully demonstrates the body of Christ's submission to its Head in not usurping authority over Christ and allowing Him( the Spirit) to teach rather than the flesh. Zechariah 2:13 "Be silent, O all flesh, before the Lord : for he is raised up out of his holy habitation." The Woman being saved in childbearing through Christ.

So, this morning I think I have my confirmation. I've been feeling for sometime now that God is leading me to write solely for women and to participate in workshops for women and if I am going to teach...it will be to teach women to love their husbands and children including (Christ and His body also). Again, I realize that the above verses have spiritual meaning and purpose but that doesn't mean there is not a better way in abiding in them. What is the struggle then? It may mean backing away from the forum since I do not know where posting and debating scripture with men fits within those verses and a woman's role to Her Head.

When Paul said that women should be silent in the churches, I don't believe that he was saying we should not speak at all because he also talks about women prophesying in 1 Cor 11:5 and doesn't condemn this practice. As far as women teaching men, Paul seems to be concerned about women USURPING authority.

I think that if women stop teaching and even debating for fear that men might be engaging, men would miss out on some good learning experiences. If a man chooses to listen and is growing in his knowledge of God through a woman's teaching, I don't see a problem with that.