Abortion

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Do you believe someone can be Christian and support / defend aborting millions of unborn babies?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • No

    Votes: 25 89.3%

  • Total voters
    28

amigo de christo

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Supporting them in making a choice is not the same as supporting what they are doing.
So what would you say to JESUS , who over turned the tables and would not ALLOW folks to even carry certain things into the buidliing .
or how about paul . Who did not support the decision of that man who had his fathers wife
But had him cast OUT of the church . I dont worry one bit about the rights of anyone .
Truth is , SO long as i have CHRIST i would still have all hope no matter if they stripped every right i had away from me
and threw me into prison . I wont defend the right of anyone to make a unholy immoral decision .
Why fear men anyway . I think most christains are so afraid of persecution
they wont make a stand lest their rights gets tramped
 
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Naomanos

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So what would you say to JESUS , who over turned the tables and would not ALLOW folks to even carry certain things into the buidliing .
or how about paul . Who did not support the decision of that man who had his fathers wife
But had him cast OUT of the church . I dont worry one bit about the rights of anyone .
Truth is , SO long as i have CHRIST i would still have all hope no matter if they stripped every right i had away from me
and threw me into prison . I wont defend the right of anyone to make a unholy immoral decision .
Why fear men anyway . I think most christains are so afraid of persecution
they wont make a stand lest their rights gets tramped

I still say that supporting them making a choice is not supporting them when they make the wrong choice.
 
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Taken

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I still say that supporting them making a choice is not supporting them when they make the wrong choice.

I agree.

I agree with Liberty and Freedom for each to make their own choices.
BTW ...So does God.

I also agree they who make their own choices are accountable for the consequences of their choices; good or bad.
Also Biblical.
 

BreadOfLife

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It wont work . there are more men with smiles and that seem joyful and happy and yet are leading folks right to hells fire perditon .
The qualitfication for todays christainity is SMILE HUG , APPROVE everyones choice , dont warn against sin or error
just hug everything . And if you gonna warn , warn against those haters who do warn the church .
That is about the only folks they warn against . Those who are serious , grave , do correct and do look out for the real welfare of the church
are seen as fearmongers , haters , judgmental , and even get titles like anti christ , satan , son of perdtion .
Even as we speak another one of these so called smiley hugy all inclusive churches has cast yet another sister
out for simply asking questions and exposing evil . THEY had no answers for her
other than OH judge not , just hug and etc . This generation has no idea what a true man of God even looks like anymore .
Todays qualifications are , A degree in physoclogy or one who can at least speak well . OVER LOOK sins
and focus on unity . That is todays leaders . But i invite us to look at the real leaders
and who they said should also lead churches . EVER heard of the word Grave before , or sincere
oh wait those two requirements are now seen as fear mongering or judgmental or hater . BIBLE TIME FOLKS before its too late .
And YOUR arguments usually more impotent that Taken's.
Soooo, now you're coming out as Pro-Abortion, eh?

Good luck with that in
Judgement Day . . .
 

Illuminator

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I still say that supporting them making a choice is not supporting them when they make the wrong choice.
Supporting a woman to kill her baby is conjuring an ill-informed conscience, playing God to decide life or death. Worse, sacrificing an unborn child to solve a problem carries the same motive as sacrificing children, born or unborn, to the god Mollock. See post #465 for an explanation. Free support is available for post-abortion women who suffer the consequences of their "choice"; the potential ill-effects is well medically established.

“Project Rachel gave me love, support and compassion as well as the skills I needed to heal.”
 

Taken

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NERVOUS TRANSLATION:
"I don't have a CLUE as to how to address your rock-solid Biblical arguments."

Yup - that's what I thought, Einstein . . .

Per your usual, you twisting an others words into your LIE!
shame...shame...on your old underhanded tactics...:doldrums:
 

Naomanos

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Supporting a woman to kill her baby is conjuring an ill-informed conscience, playing God to decide life or death. Worse, sacrificing an unborn child to solve a problem carries the same motive as sacrificing children, born or unborn, to the god Mollock. See post #465 for an explanation. Free support is available for post-abortion women who suffer the consequences of their "choice"; the potential ill-effects is well medically established.

“Project Rachel gave me love, support and compassion as well as the skills I needed to heal.”

And again what I said was misconstrued. I support her making a choice, not the abortion. There is a definite difference.

Not sure what is so hard about that.
 
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The Learner

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If girl had pregnancy forced upon her by rape, incest, or just bad judgment, carrying that unwanted fetus, perhaps being infected with HIV to full term when the problem could simply be taken care of by taking a pill. would represent total insanity!!

And that would be in indirect opposition to God's way of doing things, where under Levitical Law, a woman becomes pregnant via an adulterous affair, the fetus must be aborted by the priest. Since God supports abortion, it would seem to me that anti-abortionists oppose God!
Notwithstanding, God creates spontaneous abortions/miscarriages on a regular basis.

I believe it is important to follow the Word of God rather than the demands of some demonic anti-God anti-abortion cult.
The Ordeal is not an abortion. There is no recoreded instances of the ordeal causing such a thing.
The water is mixed with an harmless bitter herb. https://www.chabad.org/blogs/blog_cdo/aid/910015/jewish/NASO-The-Ordeal-of-the-Bitter-Waters.htm

Explain how the water would kill the man too since he is not there to drink the water.

"If, however, the woman had committed adultery, after she drank the bitter water, “her womb shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away, and the woman shall become a curse among her people” (Numbers 5:27, ESV). There was clearly nothing in the water that would cause it to taste bitter or cause such extreme physical conditions. The power was in the curse that the Lord’s priest pronounced upon the guilty. It was the Lord’s judgment on an unfaithful wife that caused the adverse reaction." What is the meaning of bitter water in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Num 5

Concerning an Unfaithful Wife​

11 And the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Say to the people of Israel, If any man’s wife goes astray and acts unfaithfully against him, 13 if a man lies with her carnally, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her, since she was not taken in the act; 14 and if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him, and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself; or if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him, and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself; 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest, and bring the offering required of her, a tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a cereal offering of jealousy, a cereal offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 “And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord; 17 and the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord, and unbind the hair of the woman’s head, and place in her hands the cereal offering of remembrance, which is the cereal offering of jealousy. And in his hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, and if you have not turned aside to uncleanness, while you were under your husband’s authority, be free from this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray, though you are under your husband’s authority, and if you have defiled yourself, and some man other than your husband has lain with you, 21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you an execration and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell; 22 may this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your body swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

23 “Then the priest shall write these curses in a book, and wash them off into the water of bitterness; 24 and he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain. 25 And the priest shall take the cereal offering of jealousy out of the woman’s hand, and shall wave the cereal offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar; 26 and the priest shall take a handful of the cereal offering, as its memorial portion, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 And when he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has acted unfaithfully against her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her body shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be free and shall conceive children.

29 “This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, though under her husband’s authority, goes astray and defiles herself, 30 or when the spirit of jealousy comes upon a man and he is jealous of his wife; then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. 31 The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.”

The text does not say an abortion happened.
Also, it would only be fair if the husband drink the water and die, when she was faithful. Why is the Bible one sided. Enjoy the history of Susanna sometime brother, friend.
 

The Learner

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I can see where you got the idea of abortion from Num 5

"First, it is important to ask why the skeptic believes this passage discusses abortion. The bulk of the passage has to do with adultery and nowhere even mentions pregnancy. The accusation of condoning abortion is based primarily, if not entirely, on the final verses that say of the woman “your womb miscarry” and “may this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your womb miscarries.” In truth, the NIV in this case provides an unfortunate and inaccurate translation of the terms in the passage. Compare how these terms from verses 21 and 22 are translated in other versions."
 

Taken

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And again what I said was misconstrued. I support her making a choice, not the abortion. There is a definite difference.

Not sure what is so hard about that.
Exactly.

Supporting every persons FREEWILL to CHOOSE what to believe and do.
WHILE NOT Supporting every person’s Choices and Doings.

Scriptural... God gave man FREEWILL to individually CHOOSE what to believe and do.

Scriptural... God gave men HIS Knowledge OF WHAT HE SUPPORTS of those things an Individual Chooses....and their consequence.

Scriptural....God gave men HIS Knowledge OF WHAT HE DOES NOT SUPPORT.....and their consequences should a man CHOOSE what God DOES NOT SUPPORT.

Government Representatives DEBATING Spiritual Things WAS NEVER a Power given Representative Servants.

Government Representatives LEGISLATING Mans LIBERTY Of CHOICE OF His “OWN” BODY, was NEVER a Power given Representative Servants.

The Government HAS, written many Constitutional LAWS regarding ... Government Servants (Elected, Appointed, Employed, Foreigners, Doing business with)...
And Routinely UnConstitutionally, APPLY those Same LAWS TO, and consequences TO: Citizens at Large...
(However knowing full well, the in-depth Government Role is NOT taught in the Public Education Systems!) Effective in KEEPING the Citizens at Large...
IGNORANT!

One LAW, the Government has established as ILLEGAL...Suicide...
Big Deal! There is NO penal or negative consequence established or that can be effected toward that individual.
( However, as cunning, underhanded as “insurances companies” ARE. THEY WILL “punish” the LIVING family of the one committing suicide...by not PAYING out Death benefits appropriated to the Living family.)

ANYWAY...
LAWS do not Prevent. LAWS can merely provide a Negative Consequence FOR an individuals Choices...IF it is proved a Prohibited Act was committed.

ABORTIONS have been happening For Centuries, without the assistance of Doctors, Nurses, Other persons, Businesses, Machinery, Sterile tables, sheets, instruments.

Men DEBATING ‘WHEN a person, IS a person’....IS FRUITLESS.

There will ALWAYS BE a DIVISION.

The Spiritual Understanding of a PERSON, is an Individual human consisting of a BODY and SOUL.

The Spiritual Understanding of a PERSON, occurs AT the BIRTH, Separation of the BORN, Separat-ED from Dependency ON the mothers LIFE, (BLOOD) and receiving Dependency ON Gods (Breath) of LIFE, via a SOUL.

There Forward...that IS an Individual PERSON, his blood is his LIFE, (that IS APPOINTED TO DIE) his bones, organs, systems, parts, tissues, thoughts, sight, hearing, speaking, smelling, tasting, ARE his.



Glory to God,
Taken
 
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The Learner

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Jewish sources, no time to read,

"
Various descriptions of the Sotah ritual are preserved in pre-rabbinic compositions—Philo of Alexandria (De Spec. Leg. 3: 52–62), Josephus Flavius (Ant. 3: 270–273), and Qumran (4Q270.4)—and certain details in their descriptions are indeed different from biblical ones. It appears, however, that the changes come from interpretive traditions as well as ideological trends but contain no hint of actual familiarity with the ritual. Indeed, a Tannaitic tradition, given in the name of Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai, maintains that the ritual was discontinued because “adulterers proliferated.” (According to Mishnah Sotah 9:9, he was the one who discontinued it, but according to Tosefta Sotah 14:1, he merely tells of its annulment, which occurred before his time).

An entire section in the Mishnah, Tractate Sotah, is devoted to the ritual. The ritual described in the Mishnah differs significantly from the scriptural version (much more so than the versions of Philo and Josephus). The Mishnaic ritual contains stages of abasing and humiliating the woman in public and ends with her death in the Temple. Indeed, some Tannaitic sources oppose these stages explicitly, claiming that: “It is not appropriate to degrade the Israelite daughters in a manner that exceeds what is written in the scripture” (Sifre, Numbers 11). The harsh ritual is softened somewhat in the Mishnah, in the assertion that a woman’s merits may postpone her punishment even for many years (“pending merit,” Mishnah Sotah 3: 4), and in the law that “As the water probes her [the alleged adulteress], it probes him [the adulterer] as well” (Mishnah Sotah 5:1).

Although the Sotah trial was probably discontinued (if it was ever indeed practiced) during the Second Temple era, its cultural presence continued due to the study of Tractate Sotah as part of the talmudic codex."
 

The Learner

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You probably have the wrong forum. This one is not about killing, it is about non-living fetuses which cannot be "killed" because they have never been alive.

Of course if you can provide Scripture to refute that, i.e that someone becomes a "living being" before God breathes into them the Breath of Life, as declared by Scripture, then let's hear it. It would also prove all the Scriptures say otherwise to be lies.
living cells are not dead
 

The Learner

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Not true.
There were times God SAID TO KILL.
God said thou shalt not MURDER.

MURDER is unJUST killing.



Agree. Form-ED, over a 9 month process of Form-ING.



Not familiar with that. Do you have a Scriptural reference?



Abortion is not the intent to kill a human life, but stop the progress of a developing life, expected to be a born human life.



The killing of a baby, is killing a born person.
By face of God, I think Adam means we are created in the image of God.

Genesis 1:26-27 ESV / 277 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Genesis 9:6 ESV / 266 helpful votes
“Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.

James 3:8-10 ESV / 74 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
But no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so.
 

The Learner

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I must confess I do not know where the image of God or his spirit enters us in the womb. But, I am not going to take any chances of aborting a child and try to explain my stupidity at the judgement.
 
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Wrangler

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And that would be in indirect opposition to God's way of doing things, where under Levitical Law, a woman becomes pregnant via an adulterous affair, the fetus must be aborted by the priest.

What verse in Leviticus says wehn a woman becomes pregnant via an adulterous affair, the fetus must be aborted by the priest?

God supports abortion
Better check again. I read that God condemned child sacrifice. Would it help if I provided the verse?
 

amigo de christo

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marvel not that the word abortion and abomination are similiar .
For one is as the other . And those who justify abortion have aborted the TRUTH of GOD as they do in other places well .
Many commit spiritual abortion against GOD and HIS CHRIST and the TRUTH of His lovely and pure words .
So marvel not when folks support things that rebel against GOD and TRUTH .