Absent from the Body, Present with the Lord

[marks]

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 KJV
6) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7) (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

While in the body, we are absent from the Lord? How can this be considering,

Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV
4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Colossians 3:1-5 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

If we are with Christ in the heavenly realm, how are we absent from Him?

We are not in His physical presence. We see . . . here. This realm. When we close our eyes in this realm, we open them in the heavenly realm, and are present with Him.

Your thoughts?

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Your thoughts?

Marks, I’m very glad you started this thread. Many seem to develop this whole doctrine about Judgment Day from one translation while other translations render it much more mundanely.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 Complete Jewish Bible
So we are always confident — we know that so long as we are at home in the body, we are away from our home with the Lord; 7 for we live by trust, not by what we see. 8 We are confident, then, and would much prefer to leave our home in the body and come to our home with the Lord.​

To paraphrase this translation, the main point seems to affirm the importance of our faith over what we know (see) and plainly acknowledges something that I’ve held for a long time, that as believers in God, we prefer to be with him in heaven. To be crude about it, why don’t we all just commit suicide to achieve this preferred state of existence?

The simple answer is that is not God’s will. Yes, we are his children but we are also his servants. He has work for each of us here. The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

Angels escort saints into heaven.
(Luke 16:22)

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

That is wonderful, although biblical angels are terrifying.

 

[Davy]

If we are with Christ in the heavenly realm, how are we absent from Him?

We are not in His physical presence. We see . . . here. This realm. When we close our eyes in this realm, we open them in the heavenly realm, and are present with Him.

Your thoughts?

Much love!

If you hadn't left out the first part of that 2 Corinthians 5 Chapter, then your question would have easily been answered...

2 Cor 5:1-6
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now He That hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
KJV

Apostle Paul was NOT simply pushing some spiritualistic philosophical idea there. He was being LITERAL about that other body we also have that is made up of Spirit. Like Paul also said in 1 Cor.15, there is a natural body (flesh), and there is a spiritual body (non-flesh).

Hebrews 4:12 reveals that spirit part we all have in addition to our flesh body. So does Eccl.12:5-7, which even mentions the idea of an invisible "silver cord" that keeps our spirit body with soul attached to our flesh, and is severed when our flesh body dies.

So brethren in Christ need to quit making excuses for NOT believing those Bible Scriptures being meant literally, because they are not meant in the spiritual philosophy sense, but about real Life.

Thus to be absent from the body (flesh) means one's spirit body with soul literally being in heaven with Christ Jesus. Remember what Jesus said to the malefactor crucified with Him that believed on Him...

Luke 23:42-43
42 And he said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom."

43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."
KJV

 

[Hepzibah]

While in the body, we are absent from the Lord?

For now we walk by faith not sight. But then, we will be walking by sight and seeing Him, we will no more be absent from this sight of Him.

 

[quietthinker]

Angels escort saints into heaven.
(Luke 16:22)

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

That is wonderful, although biblical angels are terrifying.

The same story tells us you'll be able to talk to those on the other side of the chasm.

 

[marks]

2 Cor 5:1-6
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

It's very interesting to me that "we have" a building from God, we have it now.

What does it mean to "be clothed upon" with our heavenly house?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

It's very interesting to me that "we have" a building from God, we have it now.

What does it mean to "be clothed upon" with our heavenly house?

Much love!

Per Hebrews 4:12, God created us with a spirit, and a soul, and a flesh body. In John 3:6 Lord Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

What that means is there exists 2 different dimensions (or realms) of existence per God's Word. One is made up of material matter and includes the whole universe, and the other is made up of Spirit, which is not the same thing as material matter.

Understanding the above goes back to God's original creation of the material world. Per Hebrews 11:3, God framed the worlds by His Word; He spoke and it came to pass. And that was done when only the dimension of Spirit existed. This material dimension of matter did not exist yet when He did that.

So that begs a question: does that mean that material matter only originated from God's Spirit from that world of Spirit? Yes, most definitely, and the Hebrews 11:3 verse reveals this especially with the part I underlined in red...

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

That is actually about the true science of material matter of this world. Physics has proven that matter cannot be created nor destroyed, but only change its state (solid, liquid, gas, vapor). That immediately proves that matter did not create itself, but that matter was created by that 'other' dimension of Spirit by God only. And only God can destroy matter also (yet He said He created this earth to be for ever.)

Ultimately then, this means we have to keep in mind those 2 separate dimensions of existence when reading His Word. Those who fail to understand this simple matter, even what Jesus said in John 3:6, struggle in some Scriptures with not knowing which realm Christ Jesus and His Apostles at times were talking about. When Lord Jesus said, "the kingdom of God is within you", He meant that literally involving the realm of Spirit, because our 'spirit' part came from that realm of Spirit originally when God created us. It's actually about His idea that our 'spirit' inside our flesh must be "born again" of The Holy Spirit.

Then in Matthew 10:28, Lord Jesus said don't fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our 'soul'. That means our 'soul' part also is not made of material matter like our flesh, and it is of that realm of Spirit also like our 'spirit' is. Thus our spirit with soul can be separated from our flesh body, de facto. And that is what happens when our flesh body dies.

The 'soul' part is about our person, what makes us individuals.

The 'spirit' part involves the "spiritual body" Paul taught in 1 Cor.15, a heavenly type vehicle for our 'soul' part when in the Spirit realm.

The flesh is a vehicle only for our spirit and soul while in this realm of material matter.

That is why Paul would say to be absent from the body (flesh) is to be present with The Lord.

This is why pastors and doctors and hospice workers at hospitals have reported patients seeing dead loved ones appearing in the hospital rooms with them. They are on the cusp between the two realms, and their 'spirit' is what sees into that other realm of Spirit.

This scares a lot of brethren when it should not. When I was stationed in Spain, and was next door in the barracks speaking with the guy in the room next to mine, tears started rolling down my eyes and I did not know why. I even chuckled at myself, and Ralph asked if I was alright. The next day my father through the Red Cross got ahold of me and said that my grandmother had died, and the last thing she said was where was I at. And she was all the way back in the United States while I was in Spain. A much more obvious case was my mother's ability at precognitive dreams. She was a devout Christian, but she tended to worry a lot. My nephew, her grandson, had been born brain damaged, and was an invalid in a crib until he finally died at 12 years old, three states away from where we lived in the U.S. The night he died he appeared to my mom in a dream, and appeared as a normal walking, talking little boy. He told mom not to worry about him, that he was alright. Then my sister-in-law, the boy's mother, called my mother a couple hours later to tell her that my nephew had died that morning. These events should not be a mystery to us in Christ Jesus, because God's written Word explains what they are about.

 

[marks]

Per Hebrews 4:12, God created us with a spirit, and a soul, and a flesh body. In John 3:6 Lord Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

What that means is there exists 2 different dimensions (or realms) of existence per God's Word. One is made up of material matter and includes the whole universe, and the other is made up of Spirit, which is not the same thing as material matter.

Something I would add . . . I relate this to,

1 Corinthians 15:52-54 KJV
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

As the corruptible puts on the incorruptible, the incorruptibility overwhelms the corruptibility, rendering it to be no more, forever altered by being clothed upon with heavenly body.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 KJV
6) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7) (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

While in the body, we are absent from the Lord? How can this be considering,

Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV
4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Colossians 3:1-5 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

If we are with Christ in the heavenly realm, how are we absent from Him?

We are not in His physical presence. We see . . . here. This realm. When we close our eyes in this realm, we open them in the heavenly realm, and are present with Him.

Your thoughts?

Much love!

This is the mystery and the gift or God of those born again of the Spirit of God--as Paul identified us as "we who arealiveandremain" (in the flesh and in theworld). That we should suffer as Christ suffered, to be One with Christ, and Christ, and reign with Him, even as a part of His own body, the Church.

Which as much as one passage seems to contradict another. This is that struggle written of by Paul, where the old man having died remains, not for sin, though what is dead is sin, but remains for service. Did Israel sin after being chosen to serve? Likewise, we too struggle, not to the loss of salvation after being saved, but to the glory of God who's strength in Christ is made perfect in weakness, as out of darkness. Wherein we walk as if having one foot on the land and one on the sea--as one in the spirit and one in the flesh, unto the end.

And to each, both Israel, and the Church of the fold of the gentiles which Christ must also bring, God has set before us these matters as--even contrary--as "life and death, blessing and cursing" that we might choose life and live forever.