Acts 2:38 has been abandoned by Christianity

[fellow]

Is your point that one must be water baptized for the remission of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit?

Absolutely! Must be baptized in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, that name is 'Jesus". If your church will not do that, find a One God Pentecostal Church and get it done.

If your serious about serving God, then do it and ask questions later.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes, which means the church that moved away is no longer the church.

Virtually all denominations baptize new converts, so I wouldn't go so far as to say that. What happened is most denominations don't present the gospel in the same manner as Peter did. Which is the curious point. But most do in fact baptize.

 

[Amazed@grace]

It is no more true that he is a true jew who has been physically circumcised than it is that he is a born again man who has been splashed with physical water.

That's all I have to say. Wont be back.

You'll be back.

 

[dev553344]

The members are part of a church movement thing that has risen up in outward rebellion against Peter(and Jesus Christ).

Sounds like heresy to me. I've seen members here denying baptism, but I thought that was just some people that were misled which is probably a norm for members of forums like this. I didn't really think it was a movement though. That's too bad

 

[amadeus]

God's word is clear..

Yes, very clear to those with hungry and thirsty hearts as God fills them!

 

[amadeus]

The spoken name of Jesus Christ while being immersed in water is the remitter of sins.

"spoken"? Can a mute person ever be IN the name? Is one person always dependent on other people in order to approach God?
"Immersed in water"? How about being immersed in the Spirit of God?

The Holy Ghost takes over from there to assist us to heaven.

Is the Holy Ghost not involved even before a man has fully decided to follow God?

 

[amadeus]

It is no more true that he is a true jew who has been physically circumcised than it is that he is a born again man who has been splashed with physical water.

That's all I have to say. Wont be back.

Hopefully with this you only mean with regard to participating in this thread. You are one of those here listening the Lord! Give God the glory!

 

[Enoch111]

You too have skipped Acts 2:38.

It is you who is misrepresenting Acts 2:38.

 

[dev553344]

"spoken"? Can a mute person ever be IN the name? Is one person always dependent on other people in order to approach God?
"Immersed in water"? How about being immersed in the Spirit of God?

Is the Holy Ghost not involved even before a man has fully decided to follow God?

It's my understanding that the Holy Ghost does reach out to people, but the spirit of promise only comes thru baptism and the laying on of hands. These are sacred ordinances of salvation. It is recorded in the scriptures. Yes the holy spirit can come upon people but does not endure unless baptized and received the laying on of hands:

Acts 8:14-17

King James Version

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

It does not matter if one is trinity or unitarian

this shows the depth of your ignorance of Bible Doctrine! The fact that The God of the Holy Bible IS eternally The Holy Trinity, is THE Most Important Teaching in the entire Bible. To get this wrong, leaves you in darkness that no one can remove. Unitarianism is a demonic LIE from the devil himself, and the cause of untold millions ending up in eternal punishment.

 

[CadyandZoe]

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.


Paul and Peter preached the same message.

As I understand it, this thread isn't actually about a message as such. (But this is your thread so please correct me if I am wrong.) The talk concerns a ritual, which is said to be mandatory for salvation. By its very nature, prescribed rituals are necessarily formulaic and any deviation from the ritual disqualifies it as a holy, consecrated act. The talk assumes that Acts 2:38 is a formulaic ritual and asks why the churches have abandoned, or is in the process of abandoning it.

I cited Acts 19, because it contains similar language to Acts 2, but with an additional element. Whereas Peter exhorts his kinsmen to be baptized in the name of Jesus in order to receive the Holy Spirit; those in Acts 19 didn't receive the Holy Spirit until Paul placed his hands on them. The difference between these two examples is strong evidence that Acts 2 is NOT a formulaic ritual to be performed perfectly and according to a script.

 

[amadeus]

It's my understanding that the Holy Ghost does reach out to people, but the spirit of promise only comes thru baptism and the laying on of hands. These are sacred ordinances of salvation.

Does the word, baptism, mean that water is necessary? John the Baptist baptized people in water but he spoke of the coming Messiah, Jesus, who would baptize people with the Holy Ghost and fire. Peter said that people should be baptized not in water or in the Holy Ghost but IN his name. The gift of the Holy Ghost would follow. Stop and think about what it means to be IN the name. It means something than simply speaking the name, does it not? The Baptist rebuked some who came to be baptized by him, because they lacked sincerity:

"And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" Matt 3:6-7

Where does one get sincerity so as to really repent? How is it that any man is able to come to ask of God in a better attitude or spirit than the Pharisees and Sadducees?

How does a person lay hands on another person? We know about the physical, but what about that which is not physical? Look at a negative. Jesus spoke of a man sinning in his heart when he simply looked at woman lusting even though he never actually touched her body. Do our hands spiritual hands consist of only the two physical hands attached to our two to our arms?

Can we help a person by praying for them when the live 5,000 miles away from us? Can we touch God and touch that person even at that distance? God's answer should also be our own, I believe!

In the OT God was very specific in the detail of physical ordinances, but even then in that time God was looking something more from men than exact obedience to the letter of the law.

"O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall show forth thy praise.
For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Psalm 51:15-17

Why do you suppose Joshua and Caleb made it into the Promised Land [Canaan] but the other 600,000 men who followed Moses out of Egypt did not? Do you suppose it was because they had kept the letter of all those 613 laws perfectly? I really doubt that!

"But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it." Numbers 14:24

Do you have all of the answers to my questions? If you do not, are you definitely lost? Certainly not! Being saved is Not determined by some theology test! Ignorant and even illiterate people can be saved. They are when they please God rather than when they follow the established theology of even a good man or a good church group. Some people in every church group will not make it to the end with God. Why?

It is recorded in the scriptures. Yes the holy spirit can come upon people but does not endure unless baptized and received the laying on of hands:

Acts 8:14-17

King James Version

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

If we love God we do what we can when we can as we are led by God. Probably in every church group designated by men as Christian there are some who because of their hearts do please God in spite of the differences in ordinances and doctrines and requirements of the various groups. They please God and if they continue pleasing Him until they die physically would they not always be with Him? I believe so.

Again I do not presume that my answers alone are the correct ones any more than you should presume that the answers you have received a positioned minister in some church are correct. Continue seeking... what?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you" Matt 6:33

 

[dev553344]

Does the word, baptism, mean that water is necessary? John the Baptist baptized people in water but he spoke of the coming Messiah, Jesus, who would baptize people with the Holy Ghost and fire. Peter said that people should be baptized not in water or in the Holy Ghost but IN his name. The gift of the Holy Ghost would follow. Stop and think about what it means to be IN the name. It means something than simply speaking the name, does it not? The Baptist rebuked some who came to be baptized by him, because they lacked sincerity:

"And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" Matt 3:6-7

Where does one get sincerity so as to really repent? How is it that any man is able to come to ask of God in a better attitude or spirit than the Pharisees and Sadducees?

How does a person lay hands on another person? We know about the physical, but what about that which is not physical? Look at a negative. Jesus spoke of a man sinning in his heart when he simply looked at woman lusting even though he never actually touched her body. Do our hands spiritual hands consist of only the two physical hands attached to our two to our arms?

Can we help a person by praying for them when the live 5,000 miles away from us? Can we touch God and touch that person even at that distance? God's answer should also be our own, I believe!

In the OT God was very specific in the detail of physical ordinances, but even then in that time God was looking something more from men than exact obedience to the letter of the law.

"O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall show forth thy praise.
For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Psalm 51:15-17

Why do you suppose Joshua and Caleb made it into the Promised Land [Canaan] but the other 600,000 men who followed Moses out of Egypt did not? Do you suppose it was because they had kept the letter of all those 613 laws perfectly? I really doubt that!

"But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it." Numbers 14:24

Do you have all of the answers to my questions? If you do not, are you definitely lost? Certainly not! Being saved is Not determined by some theology test! Ignorant and even illiterate people can be saved. They are when they please God rather than when they follow the established theology of even a good man or a good church group. Some people in every church group will not make it to the end with God. Why?


If we love God we do what we can when we can as we are led by God. Probably in every church group designated by men as Christian there are some who because of their hearts do please God in spite of the differences in ordinances and doctrines and requirements of the various groups. They please God and if they continue pleasing Him until they die physically would they not always be with Him? I believe so.

Again I do not presume that my answers alone are the correct ones any more than you should presume that the answers you have received a positioned minister in some church are correct. Continue seeking... what?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you" Matt 6:33

Hello @amadeus, I see you're trying to find reason to dismiss the need for water baptism, yes we must be baptized in water in accordance with the preparation for Jesus to come to us. It was a template that John the Baptist performed and we are not exempt. The Holy Spirit filled John the Baptist and directed him on what to do. So if you're not professing baptism then your not following the Holy Spirit. God's word didn't change as baptism is part of the new testament. John's works are a great part of the gospel which are professed in the Gospel message.

Luke 1:15

"for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born."

 

[Wrangler]

The fact that The God of the Holy Bible IS eternally The Holy Trinity, is THE Most Important Teaching in the entire Bible.

It's so important, not once is it mentioned.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

It's so important, not once is it mentioned.

well, if you are wilfully blind, then it is not mentioned!

 

[amadeus]

Hello @amadeus, I see you're trying to find reason to dismiss the need for water baptism, yes we must be baptized in water in accordance with the preparation for Jesus to come to us. It was a template that John the Baptist performed and we are not exempt. The Holy Spirit filled John the Baptist and directed him on what to do. So if you're not professing baptism then your not following the Holy Spirit. God's word didn't change as baptism is part of the new testament. John's works are a great part of the gospel which are professed in the Gospel message.

Luke 1:15

"for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born."

If you do not understand what I am say, that's OK. Either skip it or ask questions, but please do not put words in my mouth.

I have not and would not dismiss baptism in water especially when especially when Jesus himself insisted that John baptize him in water.

I do however emphasize the Holy Ghost! Can anyone complete his course with and to God without the lead of the Holy Ghost?

 

[Wrangler]

well, if you are wilfully blind, then it is not mentioned!

On the contrary. You are willfully reading your man-made doctrine into the text, which detracts from the Good News. I rely on verses such as John 14:6. There simply is no verse that says The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the F, S & HS - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved. IMO, the whole notion of the trinity takes away from the Gospel message, such as John 14:6.

We should be talking about Acts 2:38 - repent and receive the HS - as it relates to John 14:6, not inventing a nature of God to be understood is where it is at.

 

[dev553344]

If you do not understand what I am say, that's OK. Either skip it or ask questions, but please do not put words in my mouth.

I have not and would not dismiss baptism in water especially when especially when Jesus himself insisted that John baptize him in water.

I do however emphasize the Holy Ghost! Can anyone complete his course with and to God without the lead of the Holy Ghost?

OK, sorry, I tend to skip long posts, and I read some of what you wrote. OK, I went back and read it. The OP is about denying water baptism, and it appeared that you were trying to correct my stance that water baptism is required. Sorry for the confusion. About who will be saved? I will leave that up to God. He will save who he wants to save, it's not really for me to conjecture. That since it enters into the judgment area.

 

[amadeus]

OK, sorry, I tend to skip long posts, and I read some of what you wrote. OK, I went back and read it. The OP is about denying water baptism, and it appeared that you were trying to correct my stance that water baptism is required. Sorry for the confusion. About who will be saved? I will leave that up to God. He will save who he wants to save, it's not really for me to conjecture. That since it enters into the judgment area.

I don't mind that people don't read my long posts. I skip most long posts myself. However, if you are going to respond to anyone about what they posted you should first read it and understand it. I know that some people on this forum don't do that. I try not to do that myself. Successfully? God knows!

Give God all of the glory my friend!

 

[Curtis]

It is a phenomenon that cannot be explained.

Folks that claim to be Christians refuse the original new birth via Acts 2:38.

I am amazed at the power of the enemy over them, doing everything they can to dismiss this command by Peter.

It does not matter if one is trinity or unitarian, as they run from the first command by Peter to sinners on how to be saved....


37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


....as Christians say..."sorry Peter, I'll pass....".

Per Acts 3:19, it’s the repenting that gets our sins forgiven, backed up by Acts 10, where Peter says those hearing him preach had been filled with the Holy Spirit, and so could then be water baptized, in Acts 10:44-48.

The Holy Spirit is not given to the unsaved, thus they were saved by faith, before water baptism.

Water baptism is the outward washing of the body that can be seen, that is symbolic of the inward washing of regeneration from the Holy Spirit, that can’t be seen.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Thus water baptism is for the already saved, and is not done to get saved.

Shalom.