Afalse teaching?

[Butch5]

What about the grandfather, who accepts Christ on his death bed? What about the Muslim in a war torn country who believes and then rushes out to spread the word, not having a church or baptismal to be baptised in? What about the child hooked up to machines in the hospital who finally understands the wonder and gift of Jesus, but cannot be moved? What about those who live where every drop of water is precious, for drinking, for living? What about the Christians living in a country where being Christian is illegal, and just holding a small bible study is risky enough, let alone having a Baptism service....which takes organization and a Baptismal?

What about them? They are in God's hands, it is His decision to make, not yours or mine. However, you and I do have the opportunity to be baptized as do the "VAST" majority of those who believe. You asked about those where Christianity is illegal. It was illegal for much of the first 300 years of Christianity, yet those Christians were baptized, they didn't try to avoid baptism to save their lives, if need be they died but they were baptised.

See, here's the thing. You say salvation cannot come by faith alone, it must come with both belief and Baptism. But when you make that claim you automatically dismiss the thousands of people who cannot and do not have the opportunity to be Baptised. You cannot say "Oh, I'm sure they are the exceptions" because you are making an absolute statement. Only God can make the distinction and claim of who is His and who is not, you have no way of knowing if a person has the Holy Spirit and redemption. I do not doubt that the Bible teaches that Baptism is a good thing for a Christian to do, and I have been Baptised. But the Bible does NOT teach that it is needed for Salvation....the only thing that is needed for that, is faith in Jesus, and His work on the cross.

Well, you've flatly contradicted the Scriptures. Jesus HImself said, he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. Peter said, the like figure where unto baptism does now save us. Paul said, Buried with Him in Baptism..., if we have been planted together into the likeness of His death we shall be of the rising again.

You can claim what you want about what the Bible teaches, however, anyone who reads the Scriptures without any preconceived bias can clearly see that Baptism is necessary, as is faith, as is repentance, and as is obedience.

 

[Duckybill]

Jesus said, he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. Paul connects water baptism with participation in the resurrection in Romans 6, Peter said, the like figure where unto baptism does save us. The historical evidence follows this, the early church those taught by Jesus and the apostles and their disciples also say that baptism is necessary for salvation.

So then, someone on his/her deathbed can't be saved? Nonsense.

 

[Butch5]

The Holy Spirit that is in John 1 : 33 is that good enough.

I would say that Jesus is the Spirit and always was, but that water baptism was his being born of water like if it's good enough for him so to you ect.

Born again is John 3 : 5 - 8 and Jesus explains from there on.

No one was in the Spirit of Jesus before they were baptised but for Jesus. they may of been on milk before hand, but not in Christ and able to eat of solid.

I don't know about Jesus being the Spirit, but I agree with you on the rest.

 

[Angelina]

Baptism is the outward showing of an inward change.
I believe it to be important, on so many levels, and think that if someone is saved they should have no reason not to be Baptised....but I also don't believe it is necessary for salvation.

I agree with you Rach,

It is important as it was something that Jesus did but he did it in obedience to his Father so that all righteousness may be fulfilled in him. The old covenant was passing away and the baptism Jesus had to undergo was on the cross...which ushered in the promised Holy Spirit. [John 7:38-39]

Matthew 3
“I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
[sup]15[/sup] But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.

Jesus was fulfilling the law but the power of the law was fading away because the reality of that shadow was about to surpass it through the baptism that he was ordained to undergo...

[sup]49[/sup] “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! [sup]50[/sup] But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished! [Luke 12:49-50]

Baptism is the outward showing of an inward change.

1 Peter 3:18-22
[sup]18[/sup] For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, [sup]19[/sup] by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, [sup]20[/sup] who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[sup] [/sup]in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. [sup]21[/sup] There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, [sup]22[/sup] who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.


Blessings!!!

 

[Rach1370]

Hey Angelina, thanks for that nice post!
I don't believe that Baptism is unimportant, I truly believe that all Christian's should be Baptised, it's our way of publicly declaring what Jesus has done, in our lives and in our souls.
What I object to is the thought that Salvation comes through Jesus plus Baptism. It's the same as those who say that salvation comes through Jesus plus speaking tongues. Any time people put that 'plus' on, for whatever reason, it detracts from what Christ suffered and died for...they imply that it was not sufficient. I cannot agree to that, and I know, without a doubt, that the bible does not teach it.
Thanks for those verses! I do think the Peter passage makes our point, but oh well! People will think what they want too!

 

[lawrance]

I don't know about Jesus being the Spirit, but I agree with you on the rest.

The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are as one.

 

[Butch5]

The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are as one.

Can you be more specific?

 

[Foreigner]

Can you be more specific?

-- Butch, if you have to ask that question...

 

[dajoshe]

Jesus said, he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. Paul connects water baptism with participation in the resurrection in Romans 6, Peter said, the like figure where unto baptism does save us. The historical evidence follows this, the early church those taught by Jesus and the apostles and their disciples also say that baptism is necessary for salvation.

"He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who does not believe shall be condemned", NOT he who is not baptized shall be condemned.

 

[Butch5]

"He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who does not believe shall be condemned", NOT he who is not baptized shall be condemned.

That construction isn't necessary. If one doesn't believe they wouldn't be baptized, If the first condition isn't met, (believes) the second condition (baptism) is irrelevant.

-- Butch, if you have to ask that question...

Unlike many I don't asume my understadng is always what the writer meant.. There is a difference between "Is" and "as".