After your born again do you think you will never sin again?

[SirJamsalot]

I see a great deal of equivocation over the word sin in this thread. Sin is “any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, the law of God.” It includes both doing what God forbids and failing to do what God commands.


We must also distinguish Adam’s guilt from the corruption inherited through the fall. Adam, as our federal head, represented humanity in his transgression (Romans 5:12-19). Those who are united to Christ no longer bear Adam’s guilt or condemnation, but the effects of the fall remain within us. We still do what we do not want to do, and fail to do what we ought.


Sanctification is the continuing work of the Holy Spirit by which the Christian is increasingly freed from the power of sin and enabled to obey God. A Christian can resist and overcome particular sins, but no Christian attains sinless perfection in this life. The remaining corruption of our nature is finally removed when we are glorified and raised with Christ.


So, can a Christian stop committing a particular sin? Yes. Can a Christian become entirely free from all sin in this life, including sinful desires, actions, and failures to fulfill God’s law perfectly? No.

I would add one further distinction concerning why Christians continue to commit sin after being born again.

Romans 5 gives us the larger framework. Adam acted as the federal head of humanity. Through his disobedience, guilt was imputed to those whom he represented, and a corrupted nature was conveyed to his descendants. We do not become sinners only after committing our first deliberate act of sin. We commit sins because we are already fallen in Adam, possessing minds, desires, and wills corrupted by the fall.

Christ came as the second Adam to reverse what Adam brought upon us. Through Christ’s obedience, believers are justified and counted righteous. Through the work of the Holy Spirit, our corrupted nature is progressively renewed. Justification removes our guilt and condemnation immediately. Sanctification increasingly delivers us from the remaining corruption of sin. Glorification finally removes that corruption altogether.

This is why Scripture distinguishes between sin reigning and sin remaining. Paul says that sin shall no longer have dominion over the Christian (Romans 6:14). He does not say that sin has ceased to exist within the Christian.

Galatians 5:16-17 makes this especially clear:

“Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other.”

Paul is writing to churches, to people who have received the Holy Spirit. Yet he tells these Spirit-indwelt believers that the flesh continues to oppose the Spirit. The presence of conflict does not prove the absence of regeneration. The conflict exists precisely because the Holy Spirit has created new desires that oppose the remaining corruption of the flesh.

The New Testament repeatedly speaks this way to believers:

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves.”
1 John 1:8

John includes himself and writes to those he calls his “little children.” He then says:

“If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”
1 John 2:1

James likewise writes:

“For in many things we offend all.”
James 3:2

Peter addresses Christians as “dearly beloved” and warns them to abstain from fleshly lusts “which war against the soul” (1 Peter 2:11). Paul tells believers to put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit (Romans 8:13). Christ even teaches His disciples to pray continually, “Forgive us our debts.”

These statements were written to believers because repentance, confession, mortification, and dependence upon Christ continue throughout the Christian life.

The born-again Christian therefore has a changed relationship to sin. He can no longer live comfortably beneath its dominion. He hates it, fights it, confesses it, and increasingly overcomes it through the Spirit. Yet the necessity of fighting demonstrates that an enemy remains.

The gospel gives us neither permission to make peace with sin nor reason to claim that its presence has already been eradicated. In Adam we received guilt and corruption. In Christ our guilt is removed, our corruption is progressively healed, and at the resurrection we will finally be made perfectly holy.

Until then, the Christian life is one of genuine victory through genuine warfare.

In His Grip
S.J.

 

[amigo de christo]

I remember when I was married to my abusive husband (only time in my life I've been punched in the face!) and I would be in town and see a handsome, and seemingly kind man, I would shake my head real fast, rattling by brains to kill approaching thoughts in their tracks. And willfully think about something else. That worked for me. This was during a latter time in my life where suffering caused a new level of obedience. He finally divorced me for the wife of his best friend, but he is still the last man I kissed as he divorced me "without cause." Matthew 19. I moved from Arizona to Tennessee. They married in 2002, but I still wear my wedding band. But now I'm married to Jesus. Isa. 54:5

you ever wonder WHY i remained single for well over twenty years now .
Cause for me to remarry IS ADULTERY . try telling that to this generation of chrisrtnedom .
THEY remarry and remarry and mock and judge those who actually FOLLOW JESUS .

 

[amigo de christo]

I remember when I was married to my abusive husband (only time in my life I've been punched in the face!) and I would be in town and see a handsome, and seemingly kind man, I would shake my head real fast, rattling by brains to kill approaching thoughts in their tracks. And willfully think about something else. That worked for me. This was during a latter time in my life where suffering caused a new level of obedience. He finally divorced me for the wife of his best friend, but he is still the last man I kissed as he divorced me "without cause." Matthew 19. I moved from Arizona to Tennessee. They married in 2002, but I still wear my wedding band. But now I'm married to Jesus. Isa. 54:5

that be the very example i am talking about . WHEN the evil thought popped into your head
THE SPIRIT was right there to cease them thoughts . BINGO .
Now as for me i put away my wife and oh yeah i had commited adultery against her .
IT was before i truly knew JESUS . But when , by grace i came to CHRIST ,
i learned real fast for me to remarry IS and would be ADULTERY . SO single i remain . AND I got THE JOY OF THE LORD .
FOR HAPPY IS THE ONE who keeps my sayings .

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And now instead of asking God for forgiveness she thinks that her intentional multiple lies were not sins when she could of avoided it by simply refusing to answer a question and not resort to lies.

I didn't think her delusion could be worse but it is even greater than I thought it was.

God please forgive this person's sins, arrogance, stubbornness and pride.

What would you say during the second world war and you lived in Germany and were hiding Jews. If an SS officer came to your door and asked you if you were hiding Jews, would you lie and say NO! Would you say, yes, come right in and take them. Or how about the advice I've been given and say to the officer, it is none of your business and I don't wish to answer? Would the officer leave you alone?

I weighed the outcome and my privacy. It was not giving an evil person the truth to use against me. Still, I was so used to telling the truth that it hurt me deeply to be forced lie. That is part of being born again. You hate lying so don't. Then someone comes along that is so evil, and you are forced to keep your privacy and not give them lethal ammunition.

 

[marks]

Adam acted as the federal head of humanity. Through his disobedience, guilt was imputed to those whom he represented, and a corrupted nature was conveyed to his descendants.

I'd like to suggest to you that Adam was more than representing humanity, that when God created Adam, He created all who would ever live in Adam. That God created Humanity as a single thing.

We tend to think of humanity as being a collection of individuals who self-replicate, producing more individuals.

The Bible tells us, for instance, that Levi paid tithes to Melchesidek "being in the loins of Abraham". Not that Levi would be someone born in some future time, but that Levi was already in Abraham, and humanity is not a collection of individuals, but a single thing, unfolding over the centuries.

The Revelation speaks of those whose name remain written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Rather than adding a name to the book of life when someone is born, and rather than adding someone's name to the book of life when they are saved, God wrote all the names of those created in Adam, all who would live at "the foundation of the world".

"In Adam all die." Humanity died that day.

"The soul that sins, that one I will blot from My book". Their names do not remain.

Just some food for thought.

Much love!

 

[Armour of God]

What would you say during the second world war and you lived in Germany and were hiding Jews. If an SS officer came to your door and asked you if you were hiding Jews, would you lie and say NO! Would you say, yes, come right in and take them. Or how about the advice I've been given and say to the officer, it is none of your business and I don't wish to answer? Would the officer leave you alone?

I weighed the outcome and my privacy. It was not giving an evil person the truth to use against me. Still, I was so used to telling the truth that it hurt me deeply to be forced lie. That is part of being born again. You hate lying so don't. Then someone comes along that is so evil, and you are forced to keep your privacy and not give them lethal ammunition.

Sister, I pray for you

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Sister, I pray for you

So you still think I should have told him something like it's none of your business, and let him think the worst, like hiding Jews?

 

[Behold]

View attachment 88344

A lot of water baptized but lost people as well as a lot of Christian noobs, read 1 John 1:8,9, and dont realize that John is not talking to the Christians.

So, here is something for the bible student.

The NT, the words in it, are not all created to be DOCTRINE for the Body of Christ.
And sometimes, you find Paul, or John........doing their ministry in the verse. And that ministry is to preach to unbelievers.

Now for those of you who have gone to Church, at least once in your life, .....if you were paying attention.......you'll note that sometimes the Pastor will say........"well, we all need Jesus"......."we all need to be saved"... "we all need to be forgiven""....."so, lets us now bow our heads and close our eyes, and spend a little time in God's presence"....

See that?.........That SAVED Born again Preacher, will say......>>>"WE all need to be forgiven".....>>"WE need Jesus"........

Yet......... and get this now.......pay attention........The Pastor is already saved, they are already forgiven .....>Yet They just talked to an unbeliever and said that : "WE need Jesus".
Yet this Pastor or Apostle already has Him........its the Unbeliever SINNER who needs Him.........Yet the Pastor-Apostle-Evangelist said....>>"we need". = WE

See that WE???.........

Now when you read 1 Jn 1:8,9........that is the same idea.........Its a SAVED Apostle.......who is 'made free from sin".....having become "the righteousness of God in Christ".........who just said......>"WE"..........but He's not talking about Himself, as some type of spiritual Equivalency with some Hell bound unbeliver.
Understand?
He's just saying what Preachers say, when they talk to unbelevers who dont have Christ, and they say.....>"WE need JESUS". "we need to be forgiven".....ect.

So, 1 Jn 1:8,9 is that same situation.

Now get the revelation, and get away from hyper religious people who read the bible like its a phone book or a dictionary, who dont understand it, can't discern it, should never be allowed to teach on a Forum, who only want to deceive you with their theological deception..

 

[The Learner]

What would you say during the second world war and you lived in Germany and were hiding Jews. If an SS officer came to your door and asked you if you were hiding Jews, would you lie and say NO! Would you say, yes, come right in and take them. Or how about the advice I've been given and say to the officer, it is none of your business and I don't wish to answer? Would the officer leave you alone?

I weighed the outcome and my privacy. It was not giving an evil person the truth to use against me. Still, I was so used to telling the truth that it hurt me deeply to be forced lie. That is part of being born again. You hate lying so don't. Then someone comes along that is so evil, and you are forced to keep your privacy and not give them lethal ammunition.

Someone hid the spies to keep them safe.

 

[The Learner]

not keeping up

 

[PinSeeker]

What you've probably never been taught and still don't know is that what is cleansed in us is our nature that many in the Church call our sin nature. Paul calls it the "old man" in Romans 6:5-7 that in a born again of the Spirit person is DEAD. That frees us from willful sins unto death, and because of the indwelling Spirit, we are no longer "in the flesh," Romans 7:5-6 and Romans 8:9. Our new imputed righteousness eventually becomes true righteousness, 1 John 3:7, and the continuing abiding in Jesus lets Him Finish His work to where we "never stumble." That is true holiness, the goal of Jesus for His people. Not the demonic tale of the blood of Jesus blinding the Father's eyes to the sins we keep repeating in the present and future.

Hmmmm... So this is not an issue where the Catholic-Protestant "divide" has any relevance; there is a Biblical concept that we have to get regarding what we call the now and the not yet, and it applies to so many things. In other words, the following things are true now, but they are not yet fully realized:

• our salvation: those of us who have been born again have been saved, but at the same time we are being saved... our salvation will be fully realized when Christ returns
• God's Kingdom: the Kingdom of God is here now, but not yet in its fullness... right now it is growing, and Christ will usher in the Kingdom in its fullness when He returns

The same is true of what Paul calls the "old man" and the new. We are not yet fully rid of our original sin nature, but we will be when Christ returns. Paul exhorts us to put off the old man and put on the new, and this is a continuing ~ again, for now ~ battle that we fight within, but fortunately... <smile> ...we have the Holy Spirit, Who helps us in our weakness.

You're right that our sin is no longer willful... we are no longer dead in our trespasses/sins as we once were. But we still sin, and more than we even know, really... nothing we do, even the good things we do, is/are completely sinless. This is why in this life continual confession (to God, not to a priest <>) and repentance is necessary. As John says, "If we confess our sins, He..." (God, of course) "...is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." As God says in Revelation 21:5, He is making all things new. We can live as if they are completely made new, because it is an absolute certainty ~ all God's promises have their 'yes' and 'amen' in Christ Jesus ~ but in this life not yet completely made new.

Actually Pharaoh's heart was already hard from his own will. God just hardened his choice to finally free His people.

No, both are true. Yes, experientially, Pharoah hardened himself, but as Paul says in Romans 9 ~ and he's quoting Moses from Exodus 33, and Moses is quoting God Himself there ~ “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So Paul says, "So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, Who has mercy. So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills."

...Scripture only says past. Show me where it is actually written "past, present and future sins." You won't find it because it is not true, and the Spirit is Truth.

Again, the simultaneous now and not yet. We can live as if we are completely made new, because we know we will be, because God promises it.

So you are answering my question on SIN, that you've been taught, yes, that "sin is sin." Nope, there are levels. There are two. It is interesting that Revelation 22:11 says, " He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” Two levels.

These are not "levels" of sin. The distinction is in whether we are justified by God and redeemed by the blood of Christ... and therefore repentant of our sin... or not. And if we are born again by the Spirit and thus in Christ, we are.

And two works of Jesus in us - Author and Finisher.

These are not "two works" of Jesus, but really just one. He is the author and finisher/perfecter of our faith, for sure (Hebrews 12:2), which is intimately connected with His statement to John in Revelation that He is the Alpha and Omega... the beginning and the end... the One Who makes it possible and completes it in us.

Jesus starts with the worst of two types of sin that John mentions in 1 John 5:16-17, "sins unto death" and "sins not unto death." Scripture also uses another two words regarding the same thing, "unintentional" and "willful."

Again, you seem to have the distinction a little off... Just experientially speaking, everything we do is intentional and willful. But yes, we don't intentionally or willfully sin... in the sense that we don't confuse evil with good and we are repentant. We know sin ~ any and all sin ~ is wrong, and evil in God's eyes. John does in fact say here that "All wrongdoing is sin," so there is no ambiguity there; sin is in fact sin; by saying though that "there is sin that does not lead to death," He means there that forgiveness is possible because forgiveness is sought and because God is willing to grant it. It is surely not in the sense that the wages for some sin is death but not for others; all sin is repugnant to God.

To the Church of Sardis (Reformation) which is the next church age following Thyatira (RCC) Jesus scolded Sardis saying about those at the beginning of the Reformation...

All seven churches addressed in Revelation 2 and 3 are applicable to any and all churches through out the church age. They are not mutually exclusive with regard to any criteria, time included.

We are actually righteous, not just imputed with Christ's righteousness,

Any righteousness of our own ~ in and of ourselves ~ is an empty righteousness and not righteous at all, much less sinless. Christ's righteousness is credited to us, because, having been born again of the Spirit, we are in Christ.

1 John 3;7, when He cleanses our sin nature, making it clean.

We are being made new, yes. But we will not be completely rid of our sin nature until Jesus returns.

John 15:3. But after Jesus has finished what He started we are actually holy.

Right... see above. In this life, now and not yet... <smile>

What does your denomination say about when you are holy, not just imputed righteousness, that many of today's teachers tell us that we will never be righteous ourselves because of our sin nature, only showing imputed righteousness to the Father's eyes?

This righteousness is counted to us, just as with Abraham.

The verse about "snatching" is about those "given to Jesus by the Father"

Right...

If you really study the gospels, you would know that was only applying to the Apostles.

Not just the apostles... <chuckles> It applies to all Jesus's sheep, who are given to Him by the Father... who are all those saved, born again of the Spirit. Speaking to a group of Jews ~ not His disciples or his apostles ~ at the Feast of Dedication, He says:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one." (John 10:27-30)​

You must first be born again of the Spirit in order to not walk according to the flesh...

Right...

...but be able to walk according to the Spirit.

And you will, again, if you are born again of the Spirit.

Many people in the Church, especially those in denominations that were started from the beginning of the Reformation, and not 200 years later, know little about the Spirit.

<chuckles>

I was raised in a denomination even later, but wasn't saved, because I could still willfully break commandments. Now I can't, because on 2/9/77 when about 30, I was finally born again of the Spirit and I even felt a heaviness lift out of my body, and the knowledge it was the filth from my nature. I also saw a vision, and heard God speak 8 sentences directly to me that seared right through me that I will never forget. Up until that time not one prayer in my whole church life was ever answered. Now because He has given me ears to hear, I wait until He tells me what to pray, and 100% of those prayers are answered.

God always answers prayer... <smile> ...just maybe not in the way we want Him to or think He should... <smile>

Grace and peace to you, 1CL.