Agreement

[Heart2Soul]

And I extend the very same prayer to God regarding my separated Protestant brothers and sisters.

Yes indeed, we all will be joined together in unity of faith for there is only 1 God, 1 Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who was crucified for all flesh, and 1 Holy Spirit who has sealed our salvation until the time of Jesus return.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes indeed, we all will be joined together in unity of faith for there is only 1 God, 1 Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who was crucified for all flesh, and 1 Holy Spirit who has sealed our salvation until the time of Jesus return.

I certainly HOPE so . . .

 

[Helen]

Yes indeed, we all will be joined together in unity of faith for there is only 1 God, 1 Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who was crucified for all flesh, and 1 Holy Spirit who has sealed our salvation until the time of Jesus return.

I think it was Watchman Nee who said...
"Sadly God's people will only drop their pride and become ONE under persecution. During persecution no one care about sects, creeds, or denominations."

If he didn't say that, then someone else did. I have never forgotten it.
I DO know that when there was an Iron Curtain all the different faiths who were imprisoned , came together to secretly pray...all the silly things that previously separated them suddenly became unimportant.

So yes ..'one day'...but I wonder what circumstances it will take to get the job done.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Sadly God's people will only drop their pride and become ONE under persecution. During persecution no one care about sects, creeds, or denominations."

Remembering 9/11 when the twin towers fell...there was such a tremendous surge of people coming together in churches and praying and crying and seeking comfort in God's Word....all denominations met in various places holding services...This quote is so true! Persecution will be the one thing that brings us all together as it has in times past....if only we could learn.

 

[Jay Ross]

I wonder if people on this forum who claim that their faith is Christianity would collectively acknowledge their sins are the same and that they need to repent of that same said sin.

I wonder if there is enough unity on this forum to take this step in agreement?

 

[Phoneman777]

"Millions"?? Can you show some documented evidence for this??
I didn't think so . . .

I've already showed you plenty of documented evidence for this, but you insist on denying well established historical accounts except those which bear the papal Imprimatur. READ FOXES' BOOK OF MARTYRS FOR ALL THE PROOF YOU WILL EVER NEED FOR PAPAL CRIMES AGAINST CHRIST'S FAITHFUL.

NO salvation for rejecting the Authority of the Pope?? Soooo - all of the Orthodox Christians are going to Hell??
Where do you get this garbage??

From your very own catholic church is where:
EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALAS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_Ecclesiam_nulla_salus

"Withheld" the Bible from the people?? I've already proven you wrong about ALL of this manure - so why do you continue to repeat it??

The only thing you've proven is your patent inability to understand your own church's very own indictments of itself:

Papacy's Admits It Banned The Bible From Public Dissemination

ITEM #1 POPE INNOCENT III Pope Innocent III stated in 1199: ... to be reproved are those who translate into French the Gospels, the letters of Paul, the psalter, etc. They are moved by a certain love of Scripture in order to explain them clandestinely and to preach them to one another. The mysteries of the faith are not to explained rashly to anyone. Usually in fact, they cannot be understood by everyone but only by those who are qualified to understand them with informed intelligence. The depth of the divine Scriptures is such that not only the illiterate and uninitiated have difficulty understanding them, but also the educated and the gifted (Denzinger-Schönmetzer, Enchiridion Symbolorum 770-771) Source: Bridging the Gap - Lectio Divina, Religious Education, and the Have-not's by Father John Belmonte, S.J. ITEM #2 COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D. The Council of Toulouse, which met in November of 1229, about the time of the crusade against the Albigensians, set up a special ecclesiastical tribunal, or court, known as the Inquisition (Lat. inquisitio, an inquiry), to search out and try heretics. Twenty of the forty-five articles decreed by the Council dealt with heretics and heresy. It ruled in part: Canon 1. We appoint, therefore, that the archbishops and bishops shall swear in one priest, and two or three laymen of good report, or more if they think fit, in every parish, both in and out of cities, who shall diligently, faithfully, and frequently seek out the heretics in those parishes, by searching all houses and subterranean chambers which lie under suspicion. And looking out for appendages or outbuildings, in the roofs themselves, or any other kind of hiding places, all which we direct to be destroyed. Canon 6. Directs that the house in which any heretic shall be found shall be destroyed. Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books. Source: Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Edited with an introduction by Edward Peters, Scolar Press, London, copyright 1980 by Edward Peters, ISBN 0-85967-621-8, pp. 194-195, citing S. R. Maitland, Facts and Documents [illustrative of the history, doctrine and rites, of the ancient Albigenses & Waldenses], London, Rivington, 1832, pp. 192-194. Additional Sources: Ecclesiastical History of Ancient Churches of the Albigenses, Pierre Allix, published in Oxford at the Clarendon Press in 1821, reprinted in USA in 1989 by Church History Research & Archives, P.O. Box 38, Dayton Ohio, 45449, p. 213 [Canon 14].

The History of Protestantism, by J. A. Wiley, chapter 10 cites:

• Concilium Tolosanum, cap. 1, p. 428. Sismondi, 220.
• Labbe, Concil. Tolosan., tom. 11, p. 427. Fleury, Hist. Eccles., lib. 79, n. 58.

Some Catholics may doubt that there even was a Church Council in Toulouse France in 1229. The following quotes are offered as corroborating evidence: After the death of Innocent III, the Synod of Toulouse directed in 1229 its fourteenth canon against the misuse of Sacred Scripture on the part of the Cathari: "prohibemus, ne libros Veteris et Novi Testamenti laicis permittatur habere" (Hefele, "Concilgesch", Freiburg, 1863, V, 875). Source: The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia article on

Scripture. In France Louis VIII decreed in 1226 that persons excommunicated by the diocesan bishop, or his delegate, should receive "meet punishment" (debita animadversio). In 1249 Louis IX ordered barons to deal with heretics according to the dictates of duty (de ipsis faciant quod debebant). A decree of the Council of Toulouse (1229) makes it appear probable that in France death at the stake was already comprehended as in keeping with the aforesaid debita animadversio. Source: The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia article on the

Inquisition. ... the Council of Toulouse (1229) entrusted the Inquisition, which soon passed into the hands of the Dominicans (1233), with the repression of Albigensianism. The heresy disappeared about the end of the fourteenth century. Source: The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia article on the

Albigenses. 1229 - The Inquisition of Toulouse imposed by Albigensian Crusaders forbids laymen to read the Bible. Source: The People's Chronology, Revised and updated, by James Trager, Copyright 1992, 1994, published by Henry Holt and Company, ISBN 0-8050-3134-0, New York, page 108. In 1229, when the Council of Toulouse assembled to survey and regulate the results of the Albigensian Crusade, its canons reflected the severity of ecclesiastical discipline in an area in which the inability to eradicate heresy had led to profound secular and ecclesiastical consequences. The first canon of the Council insists upon the appointment of the traditionaltestes synodales, but these now have new powers of actively searching out the hiding places of heretics; condemned heretics who repent must be moved to orthodox places to live, and they must wear conspicuously colored crosses on their garments to publicly indicate their penitential status; certain professions were closed to those even suspected of heresy. Source: Inquisition, by Edward Peters, published by University of California Press, Berkley and Los Angeles, Copyright 1988 by the Free Press, a division of Macmillan, Inc., ISBN 0-520-06630-8, page 51. In the same year [1229], the Council of Toulouse set up a special court of permanent judges to search out and try heretics. But although twenty of the forty-five articles of that Council dealt with the problem of heresy, it did not yet create a new and specific institution for this work. The local bishop remained the final judge, and had the power to commute sentences. 4 4. Lea, Henry Charles, The History of the Inquisition of the Middle Ages, New York: Macmillan, 1908, vol. I, p. 310. (Lea cites the 1229 Council of Toulouse as the foundation for the Inquisition, on page 359 of vol. I., as does Guiraud in The Medieval Inquisition, London: Burns Oates and Washbourne, 1929, on page 59.) Source: The Inquisition, Hammer of Heresy, By Edward Burman, Copyright 1984, Published by Dorset Press, a division of Marboro Books Corp., by arrangement with Harper Collins Publishers, UK., ISBN 0-88029-909-6, pages 31, 32. The clauses of the Peace of Paris and the decrees of a council held at Toulouse in November 1229 demonstrated that twenty years of crusading had not been very effective, since heresy was as much a concern as ever. The fact was that crusading, particularly when as episodic as this type was, could not eradicate deep-rooted heresy. It required the establishment of the inquisition in Toulouse in 1233 and the persistent pressure that such an instrument could bring to bear for headway to be made ... Source: The Crusades, A Short History, by Jonathan Riley-Smith, Copyright 1987, published by Yale University Press, New Haven and London, ISBN 0-300-04700-2, pages 138, 139.

I have plenty of other items in my files is necessary...

Dead Bread, pay particular close attention to the parts that are in bold...do you see them, or is your blindness so severe that you are beyond the help of even the most gifted ophthalmologist? I don't know what those priests did to you, but it's time to shake off the Stockholm Syndrome and open your eyes.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I've already showed you plenty of documented evidence for this, but you insist on denying well established historical accounts except those which bear the papal Imprimatur. READ FOXES' BOOK OF MARTYRS FOR ALL THE PROOF YOU WILL EVER NEED FOR PAPAL CRIMES AGAINST CHRIST'S FAITHFUL.

From your very own catholic church is where:
EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALAS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_Ecclesiam_nulla_salus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_Ecclesiam_nulla_salus
I don't know what's worse - your outright LIES or your complete ignorance and idiotic claims . . .
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus says NO such thing, my dishonest friend.

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus can be summed up by paragraphs 846 and 847 of the Cateshism of the Catholic Church, which state EXP:LICITLY:
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? 335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it
847
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
ONE more time: DO YOUR HOMEWORK, Einstein.

The only thing you've proven is your patent inability to understand your own church's very own indictments of itself:

Papacy's Admits It Banned The Bible From Public Dissemination
ITEM #1 POPE INNOCENT III Pope Innocent III stated in 1199: ... to be reproved are those who translate into French the Gospels, the letters of Paul, the psalter, etc. They are moved by a certain love of Scripture in order to explain them clandestinely and to preach them to one another. The mysteries of the faith are not to explained rashly to anyone. Usually in fact, they cannot be understood by everyone but only by those who are qualified to understand them with informed intelligence. The depth of the divine Scriptures is such that not only the illiterate and uninitiated have difficulty understanding them, but also the educated and the gifted (Denzinger-Schönmetzer, Enchiridion Symbolorum 770-771) Source: Bridging the Gap - Lectio Divina, Religious Education, and the Have-not's by Father John Belmonte, S.J. ITEM #2 COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D. The Council of Toulouse, which met in November of 1229, about the time of the crusade against the Albigensians, set up a special ecclesiastical tribunal, or court, known as the Inquisition (Lat. inquisitio, an inquiry), to search out and try heretics. Twenty of the forty-five articles decreed by destroyed. Canon 6. Directs that the house in which any heretic shall be found shall be destroyed. Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these nses, Pierre Allix, published in Oxford at the Clarendon Press in 1821, reprinted in USA in 1989 by Church History Research & Archives, P.O. Box 38, Dayton Ohio, 45449, p. 213 [Canon 14].

The History of Protestantism, by J. A. Wiley, chapter 10 cites:

• Concilium Tolosanum, cap. 1, p. 428. Sismondi, 220.
• Labbe, Concil. Tolosan., tom. 11, p. 427. Fleury, Hist. Eccles., lib. 79, n. 58.

Some Catholics may doubt that there even was a Church Council in Toulouse France in 1229. The following quotes are offered as corroborating evidence: After the death of Innocent III, the Synod of Toulouse directed in 1229 its fourteenth canon against the misuse of Sacred Scripture on the part of the Cathari: "prohibemus, ne libros Veteris et Novi Testamenti laicis permittatur habere" (Hefele, "Concilgesch", Freiburg, 1863, V, 875). Source: The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia article on

Scripture. In France Louis VIII decreed in 1226 that persons excommunicated by the diocesan bishop, or his delegate, should receive "meet punishment" (debita a1913 Catholic Encyclopedia article on the

Inquisition. ... the Council of Toulouse (1229) entrusted the Inquisition, which soon passed into the hands of the Dominicans (1233), with the repression of Albigensianism. The heresy disappeared about the end of the fourteenth century. Source: The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia article on the

Albigenses. 1229 - The Inquisition of Toulouse imposed by Albigensian Crusaders forbids laymen to read the Bible. Source: The People's Chronology, Revised and updated, by James Trager, Copyright 1992, 1994, published by Henry Holt and Company, ISBN 0-8050-3134-0, New York, page 108. In 1229, when the Council of Toulouse assembled to survey and regulate the results of the Albigensian Crusade, its canons reflected the severity of ecclesiastical discipline in an area in which the inability to eradicate heresy had led to profound secular and ecclesiastical consequences. The first canon of the Council insists upon the appointment of the traditionaltestes synodales, but these now have new powers of actively searching out the hiding places of heretics; condemned heretics who repent must be moved to orthodox places to live, and they must wear conspicuously colored crosses on their garments to publicly indicate their penitential status; certain professions were closed to those even suspected of heresy. Source: Inquisition, by Edward Peters, published by University of California Press, Berkley and Los Angeles, Copyright 1988 by the Free Press, a division of Macmillan, Inc., ISBN 0-5Toulouse in 1233 and the persistent pressure that such an instrument could bring to bear for headway to be made ... Source: The Crusades, A Short History, by Jonathan Riley-Smith, Copyright 1987, published by Yale University Press, New Haven and London, ISBN 0-300-04700-2, pages 138, 139.
I have plenty of other items in my files is necessary...
Dead Bread, pay particular close attention to the parts that are in bold...do you see them, or is your blindness so severe that you are beyond the help of even the most gifted ophthalmologist? I don't know what those priests did to you, but it's time to shake off the Stockholm Syndrome and open your eyes.

Another LIE - what a surprise . . .

First of all - it wasn't the owning of the Books of the bible that the Church was against - it was the translating of those books by UNQUALIFIED people because of perverted translations and heresies arising from them.

Not only were the Albigensians and Waldensians bunch of HERETICS - more than 90% of the public at that time was functionally ILLITERATE and would have NO use for an expensive, handwritten Bible. they couldn't afford it anyway. These handwritten volumes took YEARS to copy down and were extremely rare and expensive.

Good grief - I refuse to believe that ANYBODY could be this dense and completely devoid of historical knowledge . . .

 

[Phoneman777]

I don't know what's worse - your outright LIES or your complete ignorance and idiotic claims . . .
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus says NO such thing, my dishonest friend.

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus can be summed up by paragraphs 846 and 847 of the Cateshism of the Catholic Church, which state EXP:LICITLY:
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? 335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it
847
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
ONE more time: DO YOUR HOMEWORK, Einstein.

Another LIE - what a surprise . . .

First of all - it wasn't the owning of the Books of the bible that the Church was against - it was the translating of those books by UNQUALIFIED people because of perverted translations and heresies arising from them.

Not only were the Albigensians and Waldensians bunch of HERETICS - more than 90% of the public at that time was functionally ILLITERATE and would have NO use for an expensive, handwritten Bible. they couldn't afford it anyway. These handwritten volumes took YEARS to copy down and were extremely rare and expensive.

Good grief - I refuse to believe that ANYBODY could be this dense and completely devoid of historical knowledge . . .

How remarkable that you continue to blind yourself to the indisputable facts placed before you. Of course, the truth I post is not going to convince you, but hopefully will serve as a safeguard to others who might otherwise be seduced by your false statements. My facts expose your errors and prove the papacy claims no salvation for we who reject the authority of your pope and kept the Bible from the common people.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes indeed, we all will be joined together in unity of faith

narrow is the path, and few there are who find it

 

[aspen]

nice thoughts imo, i would give you a like but imo "Catholic" is not a "faith."
but i agree in spirit

Hmm...

I think of myself as Catholic person of faith.

Speaking of faith Bbyd - do you consider yourself a Christian?

 

[aspen]

What lies? That the RCC for centuries withheld the Bible from the people, tortured millions who refused to believe their pagan ideas, claims that the pope is "Jesus Christ hidden under veil of flesh", claims there's no salvation for anyone who rejects the pseudo authority of the pope, etc.? What lies?

Talk about lies.....
All you are interested in is wallowing in propaganda

 

[Phoneman777]

Talk about lies.....
All you are interested in is wallowing in propaganda

The papacy's own words are sufficient to condemn it.

PAPAL COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D. The Council of Toulouse, which met in November of 1229, about the time of the crusade against the Albigensians, set up a special ecclesiastical tribunal, or court, known as the Inquisition (Lat. inquisitio, an inquiry), to search out and try heretics. Twenty of the forty-five articles decreed by the Council dealt with heretics and heresy.

It ruled in part:
​

Canon 1. We appoint, therefore, that the archbishops and bishops shall swear in one priest, and two or three laymen of good report, or more if they think fit, in every parish, both in and out of cities, who shall diligently, faithfully, and frequently seek out the heretics in those parishes, by searching all houses and subterranean chambers which lie under suspicion. And looking out for appendages or outbuildings, in the roofs themselves, or any other kind of hiding places, all which we direct to be destroyed.
Canon 6. Directs that the house that any heretic shall be found in shall be destroyed.
Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books. Source: Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Edited with an introduction by Edward Peters, Scolar Press, London, copyright 1980 by Edward Peters, ISBN 0-85967-621-8, pp. 194-195, citing S. R. Maitland, Facts and Documents [illustrative of the history, doctrine and rites, of the ancient Albigenses & Waldenses], London, Rivington, 1832, pp. 192-194.

Why can't you accept the papacy's own words on this issue?

 

[Triumph1300]

OK, we got it.
You have a problem with the Catholic Church.

 

[Helen]

The papacy's own words are sufficient to condemn it.
Blah blah blah..

Obviously you never ever get tired of your own boring voice....

 

[BreadOfLife]

How remarkable that you continue to blind yourself to the indisputable facts placed before you. Of course, the truth I post is not going to convince you, but hopefully will serve as a safeguard to others who might otherwise be seduced by your false statements. My facts expose your errors and prove the papacy claims no salvation for we who reject the authority of your pope and kept the Bible from the common people.

You didn't post any "truth" Phoneyman. You posted an idiotic perversion of Extra Ecclsiam Nulla Salus - and you even misspelled it.

As a matter of fact - I don't believe I've ever seen you post anything even remotely truthful . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

Hmm...

I think of myself as Catholic person of faith.

ah, my meaning was that there is only one faith, and that is in God, not in Catholicism or Protestantism, etc, so i agree with your characterization.

Belief systems are not "faith" iow

Speaking of faith Bbyd - do you consider yourself a Christian?

pretty vague term these days, don't you think. Is that a "faith" too or what?

 

[bbyrd009]

anyone else noticing that all our English Bibles have turned "faith" into "beliefs" at the same time we have mostly all turned beliefs into faith?

 

[Triumph1300]

I recently found this:

One of my Bibles says: The Lord said: "Come in the Ark"

The other one says: The Lord said: "Go in the ark"

Big difference. The second quote seems the Lord is not in the ark.

The first quote, He IS in the ark.

Minor, Yes, maybe and no, maybe not!

--------------------------------

Another one:

Mary was a virgin.

The other Bible says she was a g o o d woman.

Not so minor I would think.

 

[Enoch111]

One of my Bible says: The Lord said: "Come in the Ark"
The other one says: The Lord said: "Go in the ark"
Big difference. The second quote seems the Lord is not in the ark.

The Hebrew word in Gen 7:1 is "bo" which is literally "enter" but can evidently be translated as either "come in" or "go in".