All the ELECT please stand up

[Kermos]

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "(1) The Twelve mentioned in Matthew 26:20 et. al. does not indicate "only" the twelve, (2) Lord Jesus indicates that the content of John chapters 13-17 applies to all His disciples of all time according to His words recorded in John 17:20, and (3) the "you" in John 14:16 as well as the "you" in John 15:16 referring to all the disciples of Jesus in all time because of the about 120 recorded in Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:1-4 being indwelt by the Holy Spirit as well as the people at Cornelius' place recorded in Acts 10:44 being indwelt by the Holy Spirit"

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)

- "The God Chooses/Elects Unto Salvation Post" (in this thread)

- "Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post" (in this thread)

- "The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post" (in this thread)

- "The Addendum to Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17 Post Explaining Absence Of Choose Conjugate As Well As IF/THEN Application In Genesis 1-3 Post" (in this thread)

- "The 1 Timothy 2:4 Exposited Truthfully That The Work Is Not Of Man Rather The Work Is Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "Demonstrating 'Whole World' Indicates Multiple Meanings Regarding People In First John Where Two Starkly Differing Uses Of 'World' Occur (1 John 2:2 and 1 John 5:19) Post" (in this thread)

- "The Further Use Of 'World' Exposited Truthfully Demonstrating That Belief/Faith In A Believer Is A Work of God - John 3:16 and John 6:29 and John 15:16 Post" (in this thread)

- "The Intrinsic Quality of Christ Jesus as God Choosing People for Salvation Not Vice Versa Post" (in this thread)

- "The Blessed Assurance of True Godly Worship and Love Post" (in this thread)

- "The Blood of Christ Being The Wedding Garment in Matthew 22:1-14 Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!

 

[Kermos]

God's blessings of peace and righteousness in Jesus Christ be upon you, o, dear brother in our Lord and Saviour.

God bless you, too, Gerhard! May Jesus the Christ use us as salt and light!

 

[Taken]

PAY ATTENTION to what you wrote, Taken! You wrote "He Provides us WITH ALL Knowledge we NEED, to MAKE AN election to Choose HIM."

You attempt to escape the words of Jesus Christ by contradicting where Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16).

You wrote "to Choose HIM", but He said "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16).

PAY ATTENTION to what you wrote, Taken, because your writing indicates the condition of your heart. Jesus says Jesus is in control, but you say Taken is in control. You both cannot be correct, and I'm telling you that Lord Jesus is correct!

Good Grief.... Get a clue...Jesus was SPEAKING TO HIS "CHOSEN" Disciples!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Kermos]

Good Grief.... Get a clue...Jesus was SPEAKING TO HIS "CHOSEN" Disciples!

Glory to God,
Taken

Your opinion is incomplete in that you say that Jesus chose the Apostles - which He did, but then you introduce your opinion that you chose Jesus - which is direct oppostion to the context that Jesus, the Word of God, presented. Behold the Word of God.

Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), said "I chose you out of the world" in John 15:19 - three verses after John 15:16 where Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you". This passage is about salvation.

John recorded that Lord Jesus said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20).

Since John chapters 13 - 17 include a single supper encounter, this means that John 15:16 and John 15:19 are words for all of God's children; in other word, the Lord Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 apply to all believers in all time.

You cannot choose Jesus. You can only choose a false god. THE SON OF GOD, JESUS CHRIST, SAID THAT A PERSON CANNOT CHOOSE JESUS (John 15:16).

Taken, are you blind? I have posted very many contextually accurate verses again and again that demonstrate that it is God that chooses people not the other way around. Despite the Word of God clearly visible, you state the opposite of the Word of God!

 

[Taken]

Your opinion is incomplete in that you say that Jesus chose the Apostles - which He did, but then you introduce your opinion that you chose Jesus - which is direct oppostion to the context that Jesus, the Word of God, presented. Behold the Word of God.

Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), said "I chose you out of the world" in John 15:19 - three verses after John 15:16 where Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you". This passage is about salvation.

John recorded that Lord Jesus said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20).

Since John chapters 13 - 17 include a single supper encounter, this means that John 15:16 and John 15:19 are words for all of God's children; in other word, the Lord Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 apply to all believers in all time.

You cannot choose Jesus. You can only choose a false god. THE SON OF GOD, JESUS CHRIST, SAID THAT A PERSON CANNOT CHOOSE JESUS (John 15:16).

Taken, are you blind? I have posted very many contextually accurate verses again and again that demonstrate that it is God that chooses people not the other way around. Despite the Word of God clearly visible, you state the opposite of the Word of God!

Strawman ~
Making an argument by using personal attacks is a fail.

Jesus was SPEAKING TO "HIS" "CHOSEN" Disciples....FACE TO FACE... in their Presence.

Read John 14, 15, 16...see for yourself WHOM Jesus was having FACE TO FACE Convesations WITH.

Jesus CHOSE 12 men TO BE HIS Disciples and Apostles.

11 chose to FOLLOW Him...
1 chose to BETRAY Him...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Kermos]

Strawman ~
Making an argument by using personal attacks is a fail.

Jesus was SPEAKING TO "HIS" "CHOSEN" Disciples....FACE TO FACE... in their Presence.

Read John 14, 15, 16...see for yourself WHOM Jesus was having FACE TO FACE Convesations WITH.

Jesus CHOSE 12 men TO BE HIS Disciples and Apostles.

11 chose to FOLLOW Him...
1 chose to BETRAY Him...

Glory to God,
Taken

When Lord Jesus said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20), you missed a valuable point!

THE POINT YOU MISSED IS WHEN JESUS SAID "WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20).

The Apostle John recorded word that which we have as John chapters 13 - 17.

Lord Jesus described His exclusive power - something intrinsic to Himself - that He chooses people - not people choosing Him - see John 15:16. Here we have the Apostle John's recorded words (John 17:20 "through their word") of the words of Jesus (John 15:16, John 15:19).

When I asked if you if you are blind, I was serious. I don't know if you are using a text to speech engine that might be skipping John 15:19. You seem to ignore John 15:19 where Jesus says "I chose you out of the world", thus the passage which includes both John 15:16 and John 15:19 are about salvation. Then you say you can do what Jesus said the Apostles cannot do which is choose Jesus (John 15:16, "you did not choose Me" and John 15:19 "I chose you out of the world"). This passage in John 15 applies to all believers in all time.

The Word of God is truth (John 14:6) and correct, and as a Christian I share the Word of God accurately in context in this thread, but you reject the truth.

In your defense of the defenseless, you call the words of Lord Jesus a "Strawman"! Shame of YOU clinging to straw instead of the Rock!

 

[Taken]

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.

Disagree.

Having a relationship WITH the Lord OR ANYONE, requires AN AGREEMENT between the TWO parties.

Many are CALLED, FEW are CHOSEN...
THAT ^ is the "ACTION" of God. <-- the FIRST PARTY.

THE "CALLED", are the SECOND PARTY...
They may "FREELY CHOOSE" to respond to the "CALLING".......OR NOT!

THE "CHOSEN", are also the SECOND PARTY...
They may "FREELY CHOOSE" to respond to the "Lord CHOOSING" them.....OR NOT!

THE "ONE who KNOCKS at HIS DOOR", is also the SECOND PARTY...
They may "FREELY CHOOSE" to solicite the "Lord God" confessing heartfelt Belief and Desire to BE WITH HIM.

You are attempting to SET a PRINCIPLE that SCRIPTURE does not set, by your teaching that ONLY the Lord does the Choosing.

That is not true...
IN ANY AGREEMENT "BETWEEN" Two parties..
BOTH PARTIES, MUST "freely Choose" "TO" participate in the AGREEMENT that PERTAINS to the TWO PARTIES.

Any man can FREELY CHOOSE to "FOLLOW" Jesus' Teachings....and ANY man can FREELY CHOOSE to STOP "FOLLOWiNG" Jesus' teachings....

UNTIL...
Such a man following...
"ELECTS" ~ "CHOOSES"
TO make a heartfelt VOW ~ "CONFESSION" of his Belief IN Thee Lord God.

That ^ is the Individual "CHOOSING" to BE "WITH" thee Lord God FOREVER.

That ^ individual man has:

1 Thes 1
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

A man is WARNED to BE SURE of HIS CHOICE, HIS CALLING, HIS ELECTION...because ONCE HIS (heartfelt) ELECTION IS MADE, IT IS FOREVER.

2 Pet
1: [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure:
for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

So NO, it is NOT EITHER OR as you are preaching.

The Calling and Choosing and Election...IN ANY AGREEMENT "REQUIRES" "BOTH" Parties to BE IN AGREEMENT.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

When Lord Jesus said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20), you missed a valuable point!

LOL...nope missed nothing...THROUGH THEIR WORD...already addressed...THEIR WORD...
Which you dismiss.

THE POINT YOU MISSED IS WHEN JESUS SAID "WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20).

Already said....THEIR Belief, THEIR WORD is necessary....you are the one arguing THEIR WORD is a damnable lie.

Lord Jesus described His exclusive power - something intrinsic to Himself -

So? I never said otherwise.

that He chooses people -

So? I never said otherwise.

not people choosing Him -

People? Hold on....STAY ON POINT, IN CONTEXT....

Jesus IS NOT IN THE PRESENCE of just PEOPLE, or Speaking to just People...

Jesus IS IN THE PRESENCE OF Specifically "12" men....THAT Jesus "CHOSE" to Follow Him and BE His Disciples and BE His Apostles.


Jesus SAYS "TO" THOSE 12 men...
THAT "HE" CHOSE "THEM"...

Jesus SAYS "TO" THOSE 12 men...
THAT "THEY" DID NOT "CHOOSE" Jesus.

"IF" you had actually read John, 13, 14, 15, 16,....you would HAVE KNOWN...

Jesus APPROACHED the 12 men....DUH...not a newsflash...JESUS CHOSE those 12 men...
TO follow Him, To Learn DIRECTLY face to face FROM Jesus, To Believe, and THEN...
TO BE His Chosen Apostles ... TO BE Jesus' "MOUTHPEICE" and THEM TEACH Jesus' WORDS to OTHER JEWS!



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Kermos]

Disagree.

Having a relationship WITH the Lord OR ANYONE, requires AN AGREEMENT between the TWO parties.

Many are CALLED, FEW are CHOSEN...
THAT ^ is the "ACTION" of God. <-- the FIRST PARTY.

THE "CALLED", are the SECOND PARTY...
They may "FREELY CHOOSE" to respond to the "CALLING".......OR NOT!

THE "CHOSEN", are also the SECOND PARTY...
They may "FREELY CHOOSE" to respond to the "Lord CHOOSING" them.....OR NOT!

THE "ONE who KNOCKS at HIS DOOR", is also the SECOND PARTY...
They may "FREELY CHOOSE" to solicite the "Lord God" confessing heartfelt Belief and Desire to BE WITH HIM.

You are attempting to SET a PRINCIPLE that SCRIPTURE does not set, by your teaching that ONLY the Lord does the Choosing.

That is not true...
IN ANY AGREEMENT "BETWEEN" Two parties..
BOTH PARTIES, MUST "freely Choose" "TO" participate in the AGREEMENT that PERTAINS to the TWO PARTIES.

Any man can FREELY CHOOSE to "FOLLOW" Jesus' Teachings....and ANY man can FREELY CHOOSE to STOP "FOLLOWiNG" Jesus' teachings....

UNTIL...
Such a man following...
"ELECTS" ~ "CHOOSES"
TO make a heartfelt VOW ~ "CONFESSION" of his Belief IN Thee Lord God.

That ^ is the Individual "CHOOSING" to BE "WITH" thee Lord God FOREVER.

That ^ individual man has:

1 Thes 1
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

A man is WARNED to BE SURE of HIS CHOICE, HIS CALLING, HIS ELECTION...because ONCE HIS (heartfelt) ELECTION IS MADE, IT IS FOREVER.

2 Pet
1: [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure:
for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

So NO, it is NOT EITHER OR as you are preaching.

The Calling and Choosing and Election...IN ANY AGREEMENT "REQUIRES" "BOTH" Parties to BE IN AGREEMENT.

Glory to God,
Taken

CONSIDERING FIRST THESSALONIANS 1:4:

"knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you" (1 Thessalonians 1:4)

Taken, in the scripture you cited, the Apostle Paul wrote that God chooses people - the Apostle Paul did NOT write that people choose God.

The Apostle Paul is in accord with the words of Lord Jesus when He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

CONSIDERING SECOND PETER 1:10:

"Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble" (2 Peter 1:10)

Taken, in the scripture you cited, the Apostle Peter wrote that God chooses people - the Apostle Peter did NOT write that people choose God.

The Apostle Peter is in accord with the words of Lord Jesus when He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Taken, you are out of accord with the Word of God for the Word of God said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

OF COVENANTS AND AGREEING:

Respecting your imposition of your opinion about the covenant and "agreement", let's dig into relevant scripture passages.

"As long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father" (Galations 4:1-2).

A child does not "agree" to be born, so an "agreement" to the coventant is not required by the child. For thus says the Lord Jesus, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." (John 3:5).

You, Taken, outline a conditional covenant; on the other hand, the preceding passages reveal an unilateral/unconditional covenant. You, Taken, are in error about "agreeing" - and you have no New Testament support for "agreeing". You, Taken, try to change the word "covenant" into the word "agreement" which is not the appropriate terminology.

Do not be deceived, God establishes the relationship with His children, and His children love God in God's beautiful relationship!

 

[Kermos]

LOL...nope missed nothing...THROUGH THEIR WORD...already addressed...THEIR WORD...
Which you dismiss.

Already said....THEIR Belief, THEIR WORD is necessary....you are the one arguing THEIR WORD is a damnable lie.

So? I never said otherwise.

So? I never said otherwise.

People? Hold on....STAY ON POINT, IN CONTEXT....

Jesus IS NOT IN THE PRESENCE of just PEOPLE, or Speaking to just People...

Jesus IS IN THE PRESENCE OF Specifically "12" men....THAT Jesus "CHOSE" to Follow Him and BE His Disciples and BE His Apostles.

Jesus SAYS "TO" THOSE 12 men...
THAT "HE" CHOSE "THEM"...

Jesus SAYS "TO" THOSE 12 men...
THAT "THEY" DID NOT "CHOOSE" Jesus.

"IF" you had actually read John, 13, 14, 15, 16,....you would HAVE KNOWN...

Jesus APPROACHED the 12 men....DUH...not a newsflash...JESUS CHOSE those 12 men...
TO follow Him, To Learn DIRECTLY face to face FROM Jesus, To Believe, and THEN...
TO BE His Chosen Apostles ... TO BE Jesus' "MOUTHPEICE" and THEM TEACH Jesus' WORDS to OTHER JEWS!

Glory to God,
Taken

First, Taken, let's go back to your post 985 on this page 50 where you wrote "11 chose to FOLLOW Him", yet Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" to the Apostles (John 15:16); as a result, this example illustrates your persistent error with respect to the Word of God.

Back to your current post, you never addressed with scripture accurately "who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20).

You continue to miss the critical point of Jesus saying "who believe in me through their word" (john 17:20).

The Apostle John recorded word that which we have as John chapters 13 - 17.

Lord Jesus described His exclusive power - something intrinsic to Himself - that He chooses people - not people choosing Him - see John 15:16. Here we have the Apostle John's recorded words (John 17:20 "through their word") of the words of Jesus (John 15:16, John 15:19).

Taken, the words of Lord Jesus matter tremendously and you keep denying the words of Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus said:

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell - and great was its fall." (Matthew 7:21-27)

 

[Taken]

Taken, your interpretation is the opposite of the words of Lord Jesus Christ when He said "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16); therefore, you deny Jesus' words in Jesus' description of Himself as electing/choosing people unto salvation NOT the other way around...

You just accused me of Denying JESUS' Word...

Quote me saying that.

Then you Claim...

Jesus' description of Himself as electing/choosing people unto salvation [/]NOT the other way around...

I never Mentioned Salvation.....
So why are You proclaiming, Salvation is what Jesus was choosing Those men for?

Scripture doesn't say that.

As a matter of Fact...
You saying I DENIED Jesus Word is a Lie.
As a matter of Fact...
Salvation is only mentioned in the Gospel of John ...Once, and nothing you reference.
As a matter of Fact...
Jesus Chose 12 men to continue Jesus' work of seeking Lost JEWS!
As a matter of Fact...
Jesus Offered Salvation To the WHOLE World,
And ANY MAN can ACCEPT Jesus' Offer,
BY that man Choosing/ Electing/ Agreeing...
Thee Lord God Almighty to BE his God.
As a matter of Fact...
I gave you a couple of Scriptures Revealing,
Men DO ELECT/choose the Lord God.

And no I did not Deny That Jesus Chose 12 men to be His Apostles, and THAT Jesus Clearly told "Them", He chose "Them," For a SPECIFIC TASK...seek Lost Jews and Teach THEM about their Christ Messiah...JESUS!

So go ahead and quote me denying JESUS Word.....as YOU SAID

Then verify with any chapter and verse in The Book of John that Jesus was CHOOSING Them for Salvation, as YOU SAID.

I'll wait, while YOU verify WHAT YOU SAID.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

GodsGrace

John 15:16 IS REFERRING TO THE APOSTLES.

Jesus CHOSE THE APOSTLES....

But WE CHOOSE CHRIST.[/QUOTE]

Precisely!

Also others were chosen BY thee Lord God TO DO SPECIFIC THINGS...that others were NOT chosen BY God TO DO.

Such As:
Moses, Noah, Abraham, Jesus, Mary, and 12 SPECIFIC men...chosen to Be Jesus' Apostles...
12 Accepted the Calling.
1 Rejected being Chosen.
...MEN thereafter selected a 12th.
And Jesus made another Calling TO Paul.
Paul Accepted the Calling And Accepted Jesus' Choosing Him.

Many are Called...FEW are Chosen...
And not All that are Chosen BY God...
ACCEPT Gods Choosing THEM.

And the difference IS:
Any man can heartfully Call on God And Any man can heartfully Choose God to Be his God...and God will NOT REJECT him.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Kermos]

You just accused me of Denying JESUS' Word...

Quote me saying that.

Then you Claim...

I never Mentioned Salvation.....
So why are You proclaiming, Salvation is what Jesus was choosing Those men for?

Scripture doesn't say that.

As a matter of Fact...
You saying I DENIED Jesus Word is a Lie.
As a matter of Fact...
Salvation is only mentioned in the Gospel of John ...Once, and nothing you reference.
As a matter of Fact...
Jesus Chose 12 men to continue Jesus' work of seeking Lost JEWS!
As a matter of Fact...
Jesus Offered Salvation To the WHOLE World,
And ANY MAN can ACCEPT Jesus' Offer,
BY that man Choosing/ Electing/ Agreeing...
Thee Lord God Almighty to BE his God.
As a matter of Fact...
I gave you a couple of Scriptures Revealing,
Men DO ELECT/choose the Lord God.

And no I did not Deny That Jesus Chose 12 men to be His Apostles, and THAT Jesus Clearly told "Them", He chose "Them," For a SPECIFIC TASK...seek Lost Jews and Teach THEM about their Christ Messiah...JESUS!

So go ahead and quote me denying JESUS Word.....as YOU SAID

Then verify with any chapter and verse in The Book of John that Jesus was CHOOSING Them for Salvation, as YOU SAID.

I'll wait, while YOU verify WHAT YOU SAID.

Glory to God,
Taken

Taken, in your post 975 on page 49, you wrote "MAKE AN election to Choose HIM" which is the polar opposite of Lord Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); therefore, your persistence in the error of claiming the ability to choose Jesus exposes your denial of the words of Lord Jesus.

Here is another much more recent instance of you denying Lord Jesus' word, "But WE CHOOSE CHRIST.[ /QUOTE] Precisely!" in your post 992 on this page 50 where you quote and vehemently support GodsGrace's denial of Lord Jesus' words in which He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16). There is no mistaking your persistence in the denial of Jesus' words by your claiming the ability to choose Jesus.

But wait, those are not your only denials, I plan to point out another in my next post.

Taken, your scripture citations are in error as per my prior post "Do Not Be Taken Away In Free-will Error By Faulty English Translations (Includes Faulty Change Covenant To Agreement Rebuttal) Post" (in this thread). The Greek manuscripts do not agree with your version of 1 Thessalonians 1:4 and your interpretation of 2 Peter 1:10 fails because the word "calling" is between "your" and "election" because a person is not going to "call" themself thus it is God's calling and God's election, so your version and your interpretation is clearly in error.

I plan to address your wrong conclusion about salvation in my next post.

 

[Kermos]

John 15:16 IS REFERRING TO THE APOSTLES.

Jesus CHOSE THE APOSTLES....

But WE CHOOSE CHRIST.[ /QUOTE]

Precisely!

Also others were chosen BY thee Lord God TO DO SPECIFIC THINGS...that others were NOT chosen BY God TO DO.

Such As:
Moses, Noah, Abraham, Jesus, Mary, and 12 SPECIFIC men...chosen to Be Jesus' Apostles...
12 Accepted the Calling.
1 Rejected being Chosen.
...MEN thereafter selected a 12th.
And Jesus made another Calling TO Paul.
Paul Accepted the Calling And Accepted Jesus' Choosing Him.

Many are Called...FEW are Chosen...
And not All that are Chosen BY God...
ACCEPT Gods Choosing THEM.

And the difference IS:
Any man can heartfully Call on God And Any man can heartfully Choose God to Be his God...and God will NOT REJECT him.


Glory to God,
Taken

Your failure to present scripture to support choosing Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28) is a glaring and telling ommission because no such scripture exists.

You wrote "heartfully Choose God to Be his God" with no Word of God authority; however, we have the very Word of God declaring His exclusive authority to choose people unto salvation in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

You continue to miss the critical point of Jesus saying "who believe in me through their word" (john 17:20). Behold, Taken, this is part of proving that it's about salvation!

The Apostle John recorded word that which we have as John chapters 13 - 17. Still proving it's about salvation.

Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), said "I chose you out of the world" in John 15:19 - three verses after John 15:16 where Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you". This passage proves that it is about salvation.

Lord Jesus described His exclusive power - something intrinsic to Himself - that He chooses people - not people choosing Him - see John 15:16. Here we have the Apostle John's recorded words (John 17:20 "through their word") of the words of Jesus (John 15:16, John 15:19). The passage is not just about following Jesus, but it is also about salvation - God choosing people for salvation. THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.

Taken, the words of Lord Jesus matter tremendously and you keep denying the words of Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus said:

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell - and great was its fall." (Matthew 7:21-27)

 

[Taken]

Taken, in your post 975 on page 49, you wrote "MAKE AN election to Choose HIM" which is the polar opposite of Lord Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); therefore,

Therefore you are COMPLETELY unwilling to READ...WHO Jesus was EXPRESSLY Speaking TO...

Are YOU one of Jesus' 12 Chosen Apostles?
No YOU are not, because Jesus DID NOT CHOOSE YOU, to be one of His Chosen 12 Apostles!

Did you NEVER Choose God to be YOUR God?
Apparently not. Guess YOU are waiting for God to come knocking on YOUR DOOR and CHOOSE YOU.

I am not going to READ FOR YOU, or STUDY FOR YOU, or EXPLAIN again FOR YOU....Nor listen to your elementary gibberish and false accusations.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Your

Congrats, you have made the false accuser, and ignorant list.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Congrats, you have made the false accuser, and ignorant list.

Glory to God,
Taken

Hi Taken...
Just saw this....
Been busy on another thread.

But I agree with you re @Kermos.
Another one that calls people liars.
I will no longer reply to such types.
There's a word in Italian for them...
It is ROZZO.
It means ROUGH in English....
But in Italian it MEANS MUCH MORE...
but I'm nice and won't expound.

So, Kermos makes number 2.
I think we all know who the other one is.

 

[Taken]

"THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS "

UGH...yet another forum member WHO attempts to put words in Gods MOUTH.

Ignoring your speech Kermos... Gods WORD speaks for Himself.

Eph 4
[4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Pet 1
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

John 10
[7] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Luke 11
[10] For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

1 Thes 1
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Kermos]

UGH...yet another forum member WHO attempts to put words in Gods MOUTH.

Ignoring your speech Kermos... Gods WORD speaks for Himself.

Eph 4
[4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Pet 1
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

John 10
[7] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Luke 11
[10] For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

1 Thes 1
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Lord Jesus provided no exceptions when He, being God (John 20:28), said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); on the other hand, you practice giving illegitimate excuses for claiming you can choose Jesus.

You claim to be more powerful than the Apostles - more acutely you claim to be more powerful than Jesus described the Apostle's capability or more precisely inability - your precise error is that you claim that you can choose Jesus - do not be deceived, Lord Jesus declares "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to all believers of all time.

Ephesians 4:4 indicates God's calling.

2 Peter 1:10 indicates God's calling and God's election.

John 10:7 indicates that no one comes to the Father except through Lord Jesus (John 14:6).

Luke 11:10 indicates that only we believers whom the Father gives to Lord Jesus will come (John 6:37).

1 Thessalonians 1:4 indicates God's election of people. Your quotation is not in accord with the Greek manuscripts.

NOT A SINGLE VERSE THAT YOU CITE INDICATES THAT PEOPLE CAN CHOOSE GOD. PEOPLE COME TO GOD BY GOD'S CHOOSING, BUT PEOPLE DO NOT CHOOSE GOD.

You reject Lord Jesus' words with your opinion.

Lord Jesus said "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

 

[Kermos]

Both the promise of the Holy Spirit and the declaration by Lord Jesus that God chooses people not people choosing God occur in the self-same supper encounter described by the Apostle John in chapters 13 - 17.

@Taken and @GodsGrace and others that think you can choose God being Jesus.

LORD JESUS'S PROMISE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FULFILLING

In John chapter 14, John chapter 15, and John chapter 16 Jesus explicitly promises the Holy Spirit. For example, He said "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you." (John 14:16-17).

Among the places that we find fulfillment of the Word of God's promise of the Holy Spirit is when people at Cornelius' place were filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44).

THE SUPPER IN JOHN CHAPTERS 13 TO 17

Both the promise of the Holy Spirit (John 15:26) as well as God's exclusive role in choosing man (John 15:16) occur in the self-same supper recorded in John chapters 13 - 17.

THE WORD OF GOD IS TRUE

Based on the above stated facts, Lord Jesus was addressing all believers in all time, so just as the promise of the Holy Spirit (John 16:7-15) is binding upon all believers in all time also binding is "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

This has already been covered in this thread, please see the first post on this page 50 for reference.