All the ELECT please stand up

Kermos · Aug 30, 2019

CNKW3 · Aug 30, 2019

Kermos said:
The context is speaking of Christ's coming in 1 Corinthians 13:10.

Yes, Christ is complete. Christ is perfect! The Word of God is perfect! Jesus Christ is the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14)!

Show me how you come to that conclusion. Where is it in the text? The entire context of 1 Cor 13 is about revelation and gifts and how having these things without love is nothing. These people were putting a premium on having these gifts and Paul was just letting them know that it’s only temporary and they should be focusing on love since it will endure.
He then goes right into chapter 14 continuing the discussion on gifts.
Nowhere in chapters 12-14 is he considering the second coming of Christ. When the second coming happens everyone will know and it will be too late to do anything about it.

Earburner · Aug 30, 2019

Kermos said:
On the contrary, CNKW3, "when that which is perfect is come" (1 Corinthians 13:10) is referring to Lord Jesus' return prophesied by Him (Matthew 24) - you see, Lord Jesus is perfect!

Amen!!

Kermos · Aug 30, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Show me how you come to that conclusion. Where is it in the text? The entire context of 1 Cor 13 is about revelation and gifts and how having these things without love is nothing. These people were putting a premium on having these gifts and Paul was just letting them know that it’s only temporary and they should be focusing on love since it will endure.
He then goes right into chapter 14 continuing the discussion on gifts.
Nowhere in chapters 12-14 is he considering the second coming of Christ. When the second coming happens everyone will know and it will be too late to do anything about it.

The reference to the coming of Christ - the end of the age - is in 1 Corinthians 13:10 where the Apostle Paul wrote "when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away".

Look, CNKW3, you wrote the definition of perfect. We find perfect as "having reached its end", "complete", "perfect".

Now, we know that the coming of Christ is the end of the age (notice the work "end" as in the age).

Yes, Christ is complete (notice the word "complete"). Christ is perfect, and Christ is the One that makes perfect (notice the word "perfect)! The Word of God is perfect (oh, look, "perfect again")! Jesus Christ is the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14)!

With all the variant definitions that you supplied in use, the context is clearly referring to the coming of Christ.

Behold, Jesus is God (John 20:28), and God is love (1 John 4:8), and love is the matter of which the Apostle Paul wrote (1 Corinthians 13). The end of the age comes with unimaginable love with the Bride of Christ united with Christ!

We must return to the intrinsic quality of God, that is, God's sovereignty over the salvation of men.

So, as EarBurner poignantly pointed out Acts 2:14-21 and Acts 2:38-39, we have the Apostle Peter, who was at the supper recorded by the Apostle John, the same John who wrote the Gospel of John chapters 13 - 17, which includes Lord Jesus' words of "the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father" John 15:26 and Lord Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" John 15:16, we have the Apostle Peter words of "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." (Acts 2:38-39).

We also have recorded words of the Apostle Peter "'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT'" (Acts 2:17) and also "'I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT'" (Acts 2:18).

CNKW3, see that the Apostle Peter says "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off" respecting the promise of the Holy Spirit made by Lord Jesus (John 15:26) to all believers in all time who believe in Jesus Christ, Lord and God (John 8:58, John 20:28).

God is gracious and merciful to save us believers, and we THANK LORD JESUS FOR HIS BLOOD GIVEN FOR OUR REDEMPTION!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.

Earburner · Aug 30, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Show me how you come to that conclusion. Where is it in the text? The entire context of 1 Cor 13 is about revelation and gifts and how having these things without love is nothing. These people were putting a premium on having these gifts and Paul was just letting them know that it’s only temporary and they should be focusing on love since it will endure.
He then goes right into chapter 14 continuing the discussion on gifts.
Nowhere in chapters 12-14 is he considering the second coming of Christ. When the second coming happens everyone will know and it will be too late to do anything about it.

"We know in part", which is saying that we will not have perfect knowledge until AFTER the Lord returns in the fullness of His Glory. We have not yet been Glorified after His likeness.

So, until then, through the GIFT of the Personage of His Holy Spirit, we are made to be PARTakers of His Divine Nature now!!

Therefore, by our receiving His Holy Spirit, and only by His Spirit, God has made available to us all, who are "born again" of His Holy Spirit, both the gifts of the Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit.

That "Promise" is to all who are "afar off", from that Day of Pentecost.
Acts 2[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

You are neglecting to hear:
John1[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
In others words, He who is the Word, was fully manifested in the flesh, was crucified, died and was Resurrected into NEW Life.

Through faith in Jesus, that NEW Life is now being GIVEN TO US in part, as in "PARTakers of the divine nature (His)."
2 Pete. 1[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Kermos · Aug 30, 2019

Earburner said:
"We know in part", which is saying that we will not have perfect knowledge until AFTER the Lord returns in the fullness of His Glory. We have not yet been Glorified after His likeness.

So, until then, through the GIFT of the Personage of His Holy Spirit, we are made to be PARTakers of His Divine Nature now!!

Therefore, by our receiving His Holy Spirit, and only by His Spirit, God has made available to us all, who are "born again" of His Holy Spirit, both the gifts of the Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit.

That "Promise" is to all who are "afar off", from that Day of Pentecost.
Acts 2[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

You are neglecting to hear:
John1[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
In others words, He who is the Word, was fully manifested in the flesh, was crucified, died and was Resurrected into NEW Life.

Through faith in Jesus, that NEW Life is now being GIVEN TO US in part, as in "PARTakers of the divine nature (His)."
2 Pete. 1[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Yes (but I might just say "fully glorified")! Praise God Almighty!!!

Earburner · Aug 30, 2019

Kermos said:
Yes (but I might just say "fully glorified")! Praise God Almighty!!!

Yes, i agree!! We have not yet been fully glorified.

GodsGrace · Aug 31, 2019

Kermos said:
There you go again, GodsGrace, demonstrating your wrong-headed theology. You insult the Living Lord Jesus Who said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) by applying your misunderstanding.

You wrote "In Romans 9:1-3 Paul is expressing more love for his Jewish brethren that YOUR god shows for his creation --- us." Well, not only did you insult the One True God, Lord Jesus, by using a lower case "g", but the Father sent Lord Jesus to redeem His creatures. Lord Jesus redeems His people.

I proclaim this Lord Jesus, but you deny His words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) every single time you say you chose Him.

As I've written before, I am not a Calvinist.

I am a Christian, because I believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Lord Jesus reigns in the affairs of men, and the glory of man's salvation is His alone.

Can't you engage in a serious conversation?
Just insults from you.

You ARE a calvinist...whatever you want to call yourself is irrelevant...it's what you believe that makes you what you are.

Neither you, nor any other calvinist on this forum has EVER replied to my question.
It's because you cannot.

Kermos · Aug 31, 2019

GodsGrace said:
Can't you engage in a serious conversation?
Just insults from you.

You ARE a calvinist...whatever you want to call yourself is irrelevant...it's what you believe that makes you what you are.

Neither you, nor any other calvinist on this forum has EVER replied to my question.
It's because you cannot.

A liar cannot be trusted.

GodsGrace, an examination of where you indisputably lied is due.

Your bold-faced lie about your use of commentaries quoted and exposed in my post #968 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Your disinformation campaign (fake news) about the first 1,500 years where you lie that no one discerned the Sovereignty of God in salvation quoted and exposed in my post #1018 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Another case of your lie about not using commentaries quoted and exposed in my post #1016 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Your lie trying to twist John 3:16 to include "choose" where "choose" does not exist in my post #1069 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

The leaven of your deceit leavens the whole loaf of your theology (Galatians 5:9). The father of lies is the devil (John 8:44).

For we Christians, Word is Truth (John 14:6).

I deny your assertion of being a Calvinist.

I am a Christian because I believe in the Son of God, Lord Jesus Christ (John 3:16)!

You are self-deceived because you say you chose Jesus which is entirely opposite of the King of Glory's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); furthermore, you do not receive Lord Jesus' sayings of which this is one of His sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.

GodsGrace · Aug 31, 2019

Kermos said:
"Instead, by YOUR theology,,,,God specifically chooses to send some persons to hell" wrote @GodsGrace .

Well, it sounds like your god does not create everything because according to your narrative all the people that do not "choose" your god go to hell - that means that your god cannot create everything.

I don't have a theology. I follow mainline Christianity which was taught to me by two different churches, and thus, MANY theologians, that DO NOT agree with the reformed faith as YOU believe. YOUR theology did not exist for 1,500 years till YOUR men, that you follow, instead of following the teachings of Christ, made this theology up, all on their very own.

Could you please post some Early Theologians that believe as you do?

Here are some that DO NOT agree with you but believe that we choose God:

We are justified by faith.
Clement of Rome 96 AD
And we, therefore…are not justified of ourselves or by our wisdom or insight or religious devotion or the holy deeds we have done from the heart, but by that faith by which almighty God has justified all men from the very beginning (ch. 32:4).

We should CLOTHE OURSELVES
Clement of Rome 96 AD
We should clothe ourselves with concord, being humble, self-controlled, far removed from all gossiping and slandering, and justified by our deeds, not by words (ch. 30:3).

Obedience leads to salvation:

It was obedience which led [Abraham] to quit his country, his kindred, and his father’s house, so that, by leaving a paltry country, a mean kindred, and an insignificant house, he might inherit God’s promises (ch. 10:2).

source: Salvation from the Perspective of the Early Church Fathers - The Coming Home Network

Truly, according to the Apostle John, God creates everything, and according to the Apostle Paul, people apart from God are dead in sin. The next two passages show this Truth.

"All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" wrote the Apostle John (John 1:3).

Every Christian knows this.
Of course God created everything.
I don't understand your point.

"You were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience? among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind" wrote the Apostle Paul (Ephesians 2:1-3).

This is true of course.
The problem is that you believe it total depravity...this has never been believed in Christianity. We are born depraved, but not so totally depraved that we cannot choose to obey God instead of satan.
We are born with the sin nature...some call it the flesh...or carnal desires.
We read about this in

John 3:18 Jesus said:
18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This tells us that we have already been judged,,,or we have been born UNSAVED... and we are thus not saved UNLESS we BELIEVE IN HIM.

It tells us WE MUST believe in Jesus...
It does not say that God chooses for us to believe in Jesus.

See also Romans 10:9-10
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

To become saved we must:
1. Confess that Jesus is our Lord.
2. Believe in our heart that God raised Him from the dead.
3. Believing with the heart results in righteousness.
4. Confessing with the mouth results in salvation.

Romans 10:11-12
11For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

How are we saved?
Please note:

1. WHOEVER believes in Him will not be disappointed.
2. The Lord is Lord of all WHO CALL ON HIM.
3. WHOEVER calls on the name of the Lord will BE SAVED.

The temple of the LORD are we believers, and God had Zechariah long ago prophesy that the Branch, Lord Jesus Christ, is the One Who now builds the Temple of the LORD. Builds, builds, builds, the work of Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), born again - God's work (John 3:3, John 3:5), faith/belief - God's work (John 6:29, Matthew 19:25-26), works/obedience/fruit - God's work (Matthew 7:15-27, John 14:16-17, John 15:5, Galatians 5:22-23)!

Sure, but where does it say that God chooses who will be saved?
Don't carpet bomb with verses...pick one or two that we could discuss.

Since you like John so much....
Do you like:

1 John 2:2
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Jesus is the propitiation for our sins and for those of the WHOLE WORLD...IF His conditions are accepted...believe and confession, as above.

"Behold, a man whose name is Branch, for He will branch out from where He is; and He will build the temple of the LORD. Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the LORD, and He who will bear the honor and sit and rule on His throne. Thus, He will be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices" (Zechariah 6:12-13).

FYI, GodsGrace, I say scripture indicates that people are dead in sin thus under the wrath of God - apart from the saving act of God converting the wretched sinner in the child of God. You do not understand God, so do not make assertions about myself and theology!

Scripture, as I have show, shows that we are born with the sin nature,
and Jesus is our atonement and the atonement for the whole world,
for anyone willing to accept Him as their Lord.

You and all Armenians have a seriously distorted theology where man's choice is the Armenians' savior - because your theology denies the Word of God!

I've shown you how God can save whoever wants to be saved.
Maybe you could explain all the verses I've given you and show me how they ARE NOT scriptural, since I've posted the precise verse.

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), so you cannot choose Jesus; therefore, you have chosen a false god.

Hosanna ("save I pray") in the highest, praise to the gracious and merciful Lord Jesus Christ!

Jesus chose the Apostles.
John 15:16
Just because YOU do not want to accept this, does not make it incorrect.

ALL GLORY BE TO GOD ONLY.
ALL GLORY AND HONOR ARE YOUR ALMIGHTY GOD.

Kermos · Aug 31, 2019

GodsGrace said:
I don't have a theology. I follow mainline Christianity which was taught to me by two different churches, and thus, MANY theologians, that DO NOT agree with the reformed faith as YOU believe. YOUR theology did not exist for 1,500 years till YOUR men, that you follow, instead of following the teachings of Christ, made this theology up, all on their very own.

Could you please post some Early Theologians that believe as you do?

Here are some that DO NOT agree with you but believe that we choose God:

We are justified by faith.
Clement of Rome 96 AD
And we, thereforeâ¦are not justified of ourselves or by our wisdom or insight or religious devotion or the holy deeds we have done from the heart, but by that faith by which almighty God has justified all men from the very beginning (ch. 32:4).

...snip...

John 3:18 Jesus said:
18"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

...snip...

See also Romans 10:9-10
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

...snip...

Romans 10:11-12
11For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

...snip...

1 John 2:2
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

...snip...

Jesus chose the Apostles.
John 15:16
Just because YOU do not want to accept this, does not make it incorrect.

ALL GLORY BE TO GOD ONLY.
ALL GLORY AND HONOR ARE YOUR ALMIGHTY GOD.

You so blinded by your twisted theology. In your very first citation, Clement gives the glory for faith/belief to God not man with his words of "by that faith by which almighty God has justified" which follows the disallowance of volition of man with the words "we...therefore are not justified of ourselves or by our wisdom or insight or religious devotion or the holy deeds we have done from the heart". You LIE in your attempt to twist Clement's words.

Look carefully, GodsGrace, because Clement's words go together like this "we are not justified by what we have done from the heart". There is NO CHOICE INDICATED THERE. Under your twisted theology, you try to even twist your own commentary citation! You LIE about Clement's words there!

But, alas, you again run to commenatary after you wrote "I DO NOT QUOTE COMMENTARIES or link them" in your post number #966; therefore, you LIED, and you persist in your LIE.

It is most prudent to stick with Scripture! The Word of God matters!

You so blinded by your twisted theology. As previously posted I posted the link to where I mentioned Augustine who lived around the year 400 AD which is earlier that 1500 AD. Don't worry, GodsGrace, I plan to include the link again in this post.

You so blinded by your twisted theology. As previously posted, I have told you that Lord Jesus said "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5); therefore, all your scriptural citations require Lord Jesus.

You so blinded by your twisted theology. As previously posted, I have cited Lord Jesus where He defines belief/faith by saying "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29). Beleif in a believer is a work of God.

You so blinded by your twisted theology. As previously posted, I scripturally and contextually address "whole world" in 1 John 2:2 and "whole world" 1 John 5:19, and you can find the link in the topmost post of this page in this thread.

You so blinded by your twisted theology. As previously posted, I discussed repentance, and God's work in repentance, and you can find the link in the topmost post of this page in this thread.

A liar cannot be trusted.

GodsGrace, an examination of where you indisputably lied is immediately due again. Do not forget where you LIED about the words of Clement above.

Your bold-faced lie about your use of commentaries quoted and exposed in my post #968 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Your disinformation campaign (fake news) about the first 1,500 years where you lie that no one discerned the Sovereignty of God in salvation quoted and exposed in my post #1018 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Another case of your lie about not using commentaries quoted and exposed in my post #1016 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Your lie trying to twist John 3:16 to include "choose" where "choose" does not exist in my post #1069 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

The leaven of your deceit leavens the whole loaf of your theology (Galatians 5:9). The father of lies is the devil (John 8:44).

For we Christians, Word is Truth (John 14:6).

You are self-deceived because you say you chose Jesus which is entirely opposite of the King of Glory's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); furthermore, you do not receive Lord Jesus' sayings of which this is one of His sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.

By God's grace, man is saved, for God's glory! Praise Lord Jesus for mercy and grace!

GodsGrace · Aug 31, 2019

Kermos said:
A liar cannot be trusted.

GodsGrace, an examination of where you indisputably lied is due.

Your bold-faced lie about your use of commentaries quoted and exposed in my post #968 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Your disinformation campaign (fake news) about the first 1,500 years where you lie that no one discerned the Sovereignty of God in salvation quoted and exposed in my post #1018 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Another case of your lie about not using commentaries quoted and exposed in my post #1016 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Your lie trying to twist John 3:16 to include "choose" where "choose" does not exist in my post #1069 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

The leaven of your deceit leavens the whole loaf of your theology (Galatians 5:9). The father of lies is the devil (John 8:44).

For we Christians, Word is Truth (John 14:6).

I deny your assertion of being a Calvinist.

I am a Christian because I believe in the Son of God, Lord Jesus Christ (John 3:16)!

You are self-deceived because you say you chose Jesus which is entirely opposite of the King of Glory's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); furthermore, you do not receive Lord Jesus' sayings of which this is one of His sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.

I hadn't read this before I wrote to you above.

Please don't reply to me.
I also don't trust liars and above you list many lies that YOU have stated.

GodsGrace · Aug 31, 2019

Kermos said:
You so blinded by your twisted theology. In your very first citation, Clement gives the glory for faith/belief to God not man with his words of "by that faith by which almighty God has justified" which follows the disallowance of volition of man with the words "we...therefore are not justified of ourselves or by our wisdom or insight or religious devotion or the holy deeds we have done from the heart". You LIE in your attempt to twist Clement's words.

Look carefully, GodsGrace, because Clement's words go together like this "we are not justified by what we have done from the heart". There is NO CHOICE INDICATED THERE. Under your twisted theology, you try to even twist your own commentary citation! You LIE about Clement's words there!

But, alas, you again run to commenatary after you wrote "I DO NOT QUOTE COMMENTARIES or link them" in your post number #966; therefore, you LIED, and you persist in your LIE.

It is most prudent to stick with Scripture! The Word of God matters!

You so blinded by your twisted theology. As previously posted I posted the link to where I mentioned Augustine who lived around the year 400 AD which is earlier that 1500 AD. Don't worry, GodsGrace, I plan to include the link again in this post.

You so blinded by your twisted theology. As previously posted, I have told you that Lord Jesus said "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5); therefore, all your scriptural citations require Lord Jesus.

You so blinded by your twisted theology. As previously posted, I have cited Lord Jesus where He defines belief/faith by saying "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29). Beleif in a believer is a work of God.

You so blinded by your twisted theology. As previously posted, I scripturally and contextually address "whole world" in 1 John 2:2 and "whole world" 1 John 5:19, and you can find the link in the topmost post of this page in this thread.

You so blinded by your twisted theology. As previously posted, I discussed repentance, and God's work in repentance, and you can find the link in the topmost post of this page in this thread.

A liar cannot be trusted.

GodsGrace, an examination of where you indisputably lied is immediately due again. Do not forget where you LIED about the words of Clement above.

Your bold-faced lie about your use of commentaries quoted and exposed in my post #968 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Your disinformation campaign (fake news) about the first 1,500 years where you lie that no one discerned the Sovereignty of God in salvation quoted and exposed in my post #1018 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Another case of your lie about not using commentaries quoted and exposed in my post #1016 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Your lie trying to twist John 3:16 to include "choose" where "choose" does not exist in my post #1069 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

The leaven of your deceit leavens the whole loaf of your theology (Galatians 5:9). The father of lies is the devil (John 8:44).

For we Christians, Word is Truth (John 14:6).

You are self-deceived because you say you chose Jesus which is entirely opposite of the King of Glory's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); furthermore, you do not receive Lord Jesus' sayings of which this is one of His sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.

By God's grace, man is saved, for God's glory! Praise Lord Jesus for mercy and grace!

Are you related to BreadofLife?
Yes, I do think so.

Kermos · Aug 31, 2019

GodsGrace said:
Are you related to BreadofLife?
Yes, I do think so.

The Bread of Life, Jesus Christ, knows me, and Lord Jesus Christ is the ONLY Bread of Life I know (John 6:35, John 10:14)! My life, my sustenance, my all in all, praise the Living Lord Jesus Christ! I am related to the Bread of Life by His lovingkindness for Lord Jesus has brought me into His family (Mark 3:35) that I now call our family!

You previously brought this up.

You claim to choose the Bread of Life yet you deny the true Bread of Life because you claim to do the opposite ? a fact which the Bread of Life clearly states with ?you did not choose Me, but I chose you? (John 15:16).

GodsGrace · Aug 31, 2019

Kermos said:
The Bread of Life, Jesus Christ, knows me, and Lord Jesus Christ is the ONLY Bread of Life I know (John 6:35, John 10:14)! My life, my sustenance, my all in all, praise the Living Lord Jesus Christ! I am related to the Bread of Life by His lovingkindness for Lord Jesus has brought me into His family (Mark 3:35) that I now call our family!

You previously brought this up.

You claim to choose the Bread of Life yet you deny the true Bread of Life because you claim to do the opposite ? a fact which the Bread of Life clearly states with ?you did not choose Me, but I chose you? (John 15:16).

I wonder if @atpollard is around.
He never answered my question either and at least he has some brains in his head.

Kermos · Aug 31, 2019

GodsGrace said:
I hadn't read this before I wrote to you above.

Please don't reply to me.
I also don't trust liars and above you list many lies that YOU have stated.

I write Truth (John 14:6) on this open forum, yet your lies are documented on this open forum and enumerated in this very post!

A liar cannot be trusted. It sounds like you cannot trust yourself.

GodsGrace, a returning examination of where you expressly lied is immediately due again - the list has grown again for this posting!

Your bold-faced lie about your use of commentaries quoted and exposed in my post #968 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Your disinformation campaign (fake news) about the first 1,500 years where you lie that no one discerned the Sovereignty of God in salvation quoted and exposed in my post #1018 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Another case of your lie about not using commentaries quoted and exposed in my post #1016 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Your lie trying to twist John 3:16 to include "choose" where "choose" does not exist quoted and exposed in my post #1069 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

Your lie trying to inject "choice" into the words of Clement commentary quoted and exposed in my post #1191 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

The leaven of your deceit leavens the whole loaf of your theology (Galatians 5:9). The father of lies is the devil (John 8:44).

For we Christians, Word is Truth (John 14:6).

Your words in which you claim that you chose Jesus entirely and defiantly contradicts the King of Glory's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); furthermore, you do not receive Lord Jesus' sayings of which this is one of His sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.

By God's grace I declare that in the tender love and mercy of God man is saved for God's glory! Praise Lord Jesus for mercy and grace!

atpollard · Aug 31, 2019

GodsGrace said:
I wonder if @atpollard is around.
He never answered my question either and at least he has some brains in his head.

Sometimes I am around.
It is just hard to find a topic that I really want to jump into.
Lately I have been chatting with the “Paul is not a real Apostle” tinfoil hat crowd at CARM. One doesn’t expect much from them.

After almost 1200 posts, you will either need to give me the number of the post or repeat the question you asked because at this point I have no clue what question I didn’t answer (and am just not willing to search 60 pages of THIS TOPIC to find it.).

GodsGrace · Sep 1, 2019

atpollard said:
Sometimes I am around.
It is just hard to find a topic that I really want to jump into.
Lately I have been chatting with the “Paul is not a real Apostle” tinfoil hat crowd at CARM. One doesn’t expect much from them.

After almost 1200 posts, you will either need to give me the number of the post or repeat the question you asked because at this point I have no clue what question I didn’t answer (and am just not willing to search 60 pages of THIS TOPIC to find it.).

Nice to see you A.
One of the VERY FEW calvinists I can actually have a conversation with.
Most will post silly cartoons, not answer, or insult. Got banned from you know where just for saying what I believe -- but it's a little club over there so I don't really care.

The question was not for YOU....and I wouldn't expect you to read back.

Here's the question I really would like an answer to.
Calvinism is based on total depravity and the absence of free will.
Theological free will....libertarian free will.

What I'd like to know is when do you think free will was taken away from man?
In the garden? Later?

I had asked WHERE, WHEN, OR HOW.

I never get an answer and I think it's because, really, free will was never taken away, which, of course, is what I believe.

Also, I'm called an Arminian.
If I had to tell you right now what an Arminian believes, I wouldn't be able to.
I feel that I read the bible and just believe it in a very simple and plain way.

Kermos · Sep 1, 2019

GodsGrace said:
snip...
What I'd like to know is when do you think free will was taken away from man?
...snip

Your question contains a faulty presupposition. Your question contains your veiled assertion that God creates man with a free will capable of choosing God. There is no express scripture supporting such a notion, so this means that you must add free will to choose God to scripture, and that "add to" scripture carries eternal consequeces as it is written "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18, see also Deuteronomy 4:2) and "Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Your deception is that you say you chose Jesus which is entirely contradicts of the King of Glory's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); furthermore, you do not receive Lord Jesus' sayings of which this is one of His sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20).

GodsGrace · Sep 1, 2019

Kermos said:
Your question contains a faulty presupposition. Your question contains your veiled assertion that God creates man with a free will capable of choosing God. There is no express scripture supporting such a notion, so this means that you must add free will to choose God to scripture, and that "add to" scripture carries eternal consequeces as it is written "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18, see also Deuteronomy 4:2) and "Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Your deception is that you say you chose Jesus which is entirely contradicts of the King of Glory's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); furthermore, you do not receive Lord Jesus' sayings of which this is one of His sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20).

YOU claim we have no free will.
YOU must prove that we do not.

All the ELECT please stand up

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