All the ELECT please stand up

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Giuliano

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[Steve stands up]
1 Timothy 1:15. 'This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.'
I am a sinner. I have trusted in Jesus Christ, His perfect righteousness and sacrificial death to save me. Therefore I am saved. I read in Eph. 1:4 and elsewhere that God chose me for salvation before the foundation of the world; therefore I am elect.
However, my warrant for salvation is not that I am elect, but that I am a sinner and Jesus Christ saves such.
Sounds great for you. What about the people who weren't chosen from the foundation of the world? Is there any hope for them? Could God choose them later?
 

Steve Owen

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Sounds great for you. What about the people who weren't chosen from the foundation of the world? Is there any hope for them? Could God choose them later?
Have you been up to heaven, had a look at the Book of Life, and seen your name, or anyone else's name, missing? No? Well, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." And when you get to heaven, God will say to you, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you" (Jeremiah 31:3).
Compare John 6:39 with John 6:40. Both are true and both are to be believed. Can human logic square them? No, but clearly Divine logic can, and we should submit to that.
 

Giuliano

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Have you been up to heaven, had a look at the Book of Life, and seen your name, or anyone else's name, missing? No? Well, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." And when you get to heaven, God will say to you, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you" (Jeremiah 31:3).
Compare John 6:39 with John 6:40. Both are true and both are to be believed. Can human logic square them? No, but clearly Divine logic can, and we should submit to that.
You believe everyone will be saved then? Just asking.
 

SovereignGrace

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Have you been up to heaven, had a look at the Book of Life, and seen your name, or anyone else's name, missing? No? Well, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." And when you get to heaven, God will say to you, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you" (Jeremiah 31:3).
Compare John 6:39 with John 6:40. Both are true and both are to be believed. Can human logic square them? No, but clearly Divine logic can, and we should submit to that.
Wonderful post Brother.
 

SovereignGrace

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@lforrest...Has this thread been his? It’s not showing when I go to the CBF...

Has it been hidden? The only way I can find it is via my notifications. But you can see via the screenshot, it’s not showing in that CBF area.


View media item 1916
 
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Steve Owen

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So what are you saying? Some people were chosen from the foundation and others weren't?
I'm saying that you have to reconcile the texts that speak of election with those that speak of free will, and not play them off against one another.
Have a look at John 6:37. 'All the the Father gives Me will come to Me.........' There is your Definite Redemption. The Father gave a people to the Son to redeem; He has redeemed them and they will definitely come to Him. Not one will be lost.
'...........and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.' Here is your free will. Whoever wills may enter. No one will ever be saying, "I really want to believe but I....just.....can't.....do it." Nor will anyone turn up at the pearly gates and be told, "I'm sorry; you can't come in. You're not one of the elect. Salvation's not for the likes of you!" or "Sorry! The blood of Christ doesn't stretch quite far enough to save you."

No! whoever wills may enter, but the fact is that men and women don't enter, not because God stops them but because they have wicked, unbelieving hearts. '....But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him......' 'And this is the condemnation: that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil' (2 Corinthians 2:14; John 3:19).
But those whom God has loved with an everlasting love and given to Christ for redemption will come, and come freely, because God the Holy Spirit has made them willing (Psalms 110:3).

I hope that's clear :) But do feel free to come back for more clarification.
 

Giuliano

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I'm saying that you have to reconcile the texts that speak of election with those that speak of free will, and not play them off against one another.
Have a look at John 6:37. 'All the the Father gives Me will come to Me.........' There is your Definite Redemption. The Father gave a people to the Son to redeem; He has redeemed them and they will definitely come to Him. Not one will be lost.
'...........and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.' Here is your free will. Whoever wills may enter. No one will ever be saying, "I really want to believe but I....just.....can't.....do it." Nor will anyone turn up at the pearly gates and be told, "I'm sorry; you can't come in. You're not one of the elect. Salvation's not for the likes of you!" or "Sorry! The blood of Christ doesn't stretch quite far enough to save you."

No! whoever wills may enter, but the fact is that men and women don't enter, not because God stops them but because they have wicked, unbelieving hearts. '....But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him......' 'And this is the condemnation: that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil' (2 Corinthians 2:14; John 3:19).
But those whom God has loved with an everlasting love and given to Christ for redemption will come, and come freely, because God the Holy Spirit has made them willing (Psalms 110:3).

I hope that's clear :) But do feel free to come back for more clarification.
It's still didn't answer the question: You say things but didn't answer it. Let me repeat it: "So what are you saying? Some people were chosen from the foundation and others weren't?"
 

Kermos

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That is simply HILARIOUS. But the fact of the matter is that even if you were presented with 100 scriptures proving conclusively that you have a false gospel, you would refuse to submit to the Word of God. That is what happens when people are ensnared in a cult. It is called WILFUL BLINDNESS.
Hmm, Enoch111, nothing scriptural to write again. I don't find it funny in the least as the matter is entirely serious.

Since you deny that God chooses people alone, that means by implication that you deny being a friend of God because in John 15:13-15 Lord Jesus says "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you" (John 15:13-15), and that is IMMEDIATELY followed by these words of Jesus, Lord and God, "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Here is the Word of God that declares that YOU CANNOT CHOOSE JESUS, LORD AND GOD, YET YOU PERSIST IN DENYING THE WORD OF GOD! In the past, you posted scripture that you applied your dead interpretation that leads to death. Just to make clear the matter in Truth, in the second and thrid post on page 70 contains links that expose your twisting of scripture as support for your lust to pride and power to claim to choose Jesus.

You are also dead wrong in your claim that you can choose Jesus which is the opposite of that which Lord Jesus declared with His words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); therefore, YOU CALL THE WORD OF TRUTH A LIE!

Enoch111, you practice unscriptural writing for you provide no supporting scripture for your strange statements. The more you write unscripturally, the more that you prove the accuracy of the Apostle Peter's words because you do not understand the Scripture which you try to interpret and teach in your own faulty interpretation (2 Peter 1:20-21)! Scripture indicates that you are a liar, and the devil is the father of lies (John 8:44).

As a Christian, I believe in Christ Jesus, and the Word loves me, and He opened my eyes, and I love the Word, and I quote the Word of God.

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!
 
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farouk

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[Steve stands up]
1 Timothy 1:15. 'This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.'
I am a sinner. I have trusted in Jesus Christ, His perfect righteousness and sacrificial death to save me. Therefore I am saved. I read in Eph. 1:4 and elsewhere that God chose me for salvation before the foundation of the world; therefore I am elect.
However, my warrant for salvation is not that I am elect, but that I am a sinner and Jesus Christ saves such.
Great Gospel verse there!
 
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Kermos

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It's still didn't answer the question: You say things but didn't answer it. Let me repeat it: "So what are you saying? Some people were chosen from the foundation and others weren't?"

Your post is an exercise in subliminal message decypherment.

@Steve Owen was so gentle with you, he addressed your question, but you try to invert his kindness into an opportunity to spread strange and foreign doctrine. As your posts progressed, your questions seem less sincere as seeking a Godly answer, but rather an opportunity to attack the Truth of scripture. The time has arrived to decypher your message, Giuliano.

Giuliano, you narrowed your focus down to "Some people were chosen from the foundation and others weren't?" in your post #1410. Since you repeat yourself in your post #1401 and your post #1405 and your post #1410, this exposes your assertion embedded inside of your question. I now write that your posts convey that you assert that people can be saved despite the person's name not being written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

After all, you did posit "Could God choose them later?" in your post #1401, but based on the conveyance of your posts, that posit was really a statement of your unbelief in God's sovereignty in the salvation of man.

Giuliano, have you read the Apostle John's writing of "All who dwell on the earth will worship him, [everyone] whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain" (Revelation 13:8)?

Do not neglect the Apostle John writing of the holy city new Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27).

Praise the Lord Jesus Who reveals Truth exposing people's darkness who write or speak against God's essence which includes God's sovereign dominion in the salvation of people!

Praise the Lord Jesus Who reveals Truth illuminating the world and Kingdom of God with the true Light!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!

God saves people by God's grace for God's glory! Praise the Lord Jesus!
 
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Giuliano

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Your post is an exercise in subliminal message decypherment.

@Steve Owen was so gentle with you, he addressed your question, but you try to invert his kindness into an opportunity to spread strange and foreign doctrine. As your posts progressed, your questions seem less sincere as seeking a Godly answer, but rather an opportunity to attack the Truth of scripture. The time has arrived to decypher your message, Giuliano.

Giuliano, you narrowed your focus down to "Some people were chosen from the foundation and others weren't?" in your post #1410. Since you repeat yourself in your post #1401 and your post #1405 and your post #1410, this exposes your assertion embedded inside of your question. I now write that your posts convey that you assert that people can be saved despite the person's name not being written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

After all, you did posit "Could God choose them later?" in your post #1401, but based on the conveyance of your posts, that posit was really a statement of your unbelief in God's sovereignty in the salvation of man.

Giuliano, have you read the Apostle John's writing of "All who dwell on the earth will worship him, [everyone] whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain" (Revelation 13:8)?

Do not neglect the Apostle John writing of the holy city new Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27).

Praise the Lord Jesus Who reveals Truth exposing people's darkness who write or speak against God's essence which includes God's sovereign dominion in the salvation of people!

Praise the Lord Jesus Who reveals Truth illuminating the world and Kingdom of God with the true Light!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!

God saves people by God's grace for God's glory! Praise the Lord Jesus!
You want to change the subject. I am still waiting for a direct answer to a direct question. I am a villain for expecting an honest answer to an honest question? Hmmm. He was gentle with me? Maybe, while dodging the question. Is that an honest way to have a conversation?

I learn from Moses that names can be erased from the Book of Life. How does that figure into things? Could it possible too that names can be added? You say I have a problem with God's sovereignty? Perhaps you do by saying He couldn't add or remove names from the Book of Life because of the belief you hold.

I learn from Paul too that branches can be added and removed from the olive tree. . . .

Some doctrines make a joke about God's being impartial and forgiving people if they repent. According to some doctrines, God forgives only some people if they repent. He won't forgive others no matter what. Life becomes a joke at that point: Nothing any of us do would matter in the least.

Why would anyone bother to repent? If God wanted to save someone, He would. Why preach the Gospel to anyone? If God was going to save people, missionary work would not change anything. He would save the people He wanted to save no matter what people did.
 

CNKW3

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[Steve stands up]
1 Timothy 1:15. 'This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.'
I am a sinner. I have trusted in Jesus Christ, His perfect righteousness and sacrificial death to save me. Therefore I am saved. I read in Eph. 1:4 and elsewhere that God chose me for salvation before the foundation of the world; therefore I am elect.
However, my warrant for salvation is not that I am elect, but that I am a sinner and Jesus Christ saves such.
How do you know he chose you? You can’t prove it.
And how did you “trust” in Christ? That’s pretty vague.
What did you do to “trust in Christ”? Ask for forgiveness? Say some prayer? Things that you can’t find anybody doing or teaching in the NT.
yes, Christ does save sinners!
At what point is a “sinners” sins removed? The Bible is very clear on this point. Let’s find out if you truly are one of the “elect”.
 

CNKW3

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That's too bad that you're tired of the truth. God has declared from the beginning that it is He, that He chooses. Note 1 Corinthians 1:26-31. Note "God chose" repeated in the text. Notice it also says because of Him we are in Christ, not because of us.

I am not tired of the idea, the idea came from God, and if God did not do this, none would be saved.

What am I "tired" over? That lost, wretched, God-hating spiritually dead sinners, while lost in sin saying THEY did it.
First of all....1 cor 1:26-31 DOES NOT speak of “choosing” individuals. Read it again.
second....let’s see what Paul thought at the end of his life.
2 Timothy 4:6-8 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Wow! Look at all those I’s. Paul said....
—That HE, not God, fought a good fight.
—That He, not God, finished his course.
—That He, not God, KEPT THE FAITH!
What? I didn’t think we had to do anything? I thought it was God doing it all?
Why does Paul Expect “a crown of righteousness”? Because HE, HE, KEPT THE FAITH!!

Paul? What a lost, wretched, God hating, spiritually dead man. Right, preacher?
 

Preacher4Truth

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First of all....1 cor 1:26-31 DOES NOT speak of “choosing” individuals. Read it again

Hmmm. Really? Choosing is all over that passage. Election is right there. Soli Deo Gloria is there, vs. 31.

Observations from your response:

You need to read it, that is 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 for the first time, obviously you haven't read it once. Furthermore, you've taken 2 Timothy 4:6-8 completely out of context, and have misread it and misused it, so, I snipped it off. What we have here is your complete inability to comprehend or properly handle the word, at least with these two texts. 2 Timothy 2:15.

My suggestion is that you stop arguing theology altogether and take some reading comprehension courses.
 
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CNKW3

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Hmmm. Really? Choosing is all over that passage. Election is right there. Solo Deo Gloria is there, vs. 31.

Observations from your response:

You need to read it, that is 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 for the first time, obviously you haven't read it once. Furthermore, you've taken 2 Timothy 4:6-8 completely out of context, and have misread it and misused it, so, I snipped it off. What we have here is your complete inability to comprehend or properly handle the word, at least with these two texts. 2 Timothy 2:15.

My suggestion is that you stop arguing theology altogether and take some reading comprehension courses.
Yes “choosing” is in 1 Cor 1. Who did he choose? The church. He is writing to the “church” in Corinth. Show me where he states that certain individuals were chosen? Where’s the names?
The “elect” from the foundation of the world, those who are chosen are those who have obeyed the gospel. These individuals are then added to the church or the body of Christ. Acts 2:41,47
it is the church that is “foolish”
It is the church that is “weak”
It is the church that is “base”
Also, if you are going to say that I took something out of context then it’s up to you to prove it. Show me HOW I took that verse out of context. You can’t take that verse out of context. It says what it says. Don’t make statements without backing it up, you’ll just show yourself to be foolish and petty.
 

Kermos

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You want to change the subject. I am still waiting for a direct answer to a direct question. I am a villain for expecting an honest answer to an honest question? Hmmm. He was gentle with me? Maybe, while dodging the question. Is that an honest way to have a conversation?

I learn from Moses that names can be erased from the Book of Life. How does that figure into things? Could it possible too that names can be added? You say I have a problem with God's sovereignty? Perhaps you do by saying He couldn't add or remove names from the Book of Life because of the belief you hold.

I learn from Paul too that branches can be added and removed from the olive tree. . . .

Some doctrines make a joke about God's being impartial and forgiving people if they repent. According to some doctrines, God forgives only some people if they repent. He won't forgive others no matter what. Life becomes a joke at that point: Nothing any of us do would matter in the least.

Why would anyone bother to repent? If God wanted to save someone, He would. Why preach the Gospel to anyone? If God was going to save people, missionary work would not change anything. He would save the people He wanted to save no matter what people did.
You try to pit Moses against the Apostle John for the Apostle wrote "All who dwell on the earth will worship him, [everyone] whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain" (Revelation 13:8) and of the holy city new Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27).

It was not Moses who wrote of the Book of Life. It was David that DID write of the Book of Life. You missed that David did not record that names can nor will be removed from the Book of Life. David recorded "May they be blotted out of the book of life And may they not be recorded with the righteous" (Psalm 69:28).

You wrote "Perhaps you do by saying He couldn't add or remove names from the Book of Life because of the belief you hold". Your writing opposes the Apostle John's words in Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 21:27. The Apostle John wrote that only people whose names have been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain enter.

Since you write in oppostion to the Apostle John, you need to read this which the Apostle John wrote "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).

You write without citations.

You do not understand the "fullness of Him who fills all in all" (Ephesians 1:23).

You do not understand that we are clay in the hands of the Potter (Romans 9:20-23).

You do not understand repentance, that it is from God (Romand 2:4) in we who believe by the work of God (John 6:29).

You wrote "Change the subject". I don't think that you know what's being discussed here. This is about the names in the Book of Life! And we whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life are secure in salvation!

You make another strange and foreign assertion about evangelism. We believers evangelize! The Apostle Paul wrote to pray for people (1 Timothy 2:1-2). Most importantly, the Lord Jesus sends us out (Matthew 28:19-20)!

May the Almighty God grant you wisdom!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!
 
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Kermos

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Yes “choosing” is in 1 Cor 1.
...snip
Here's one of God choosing for the Apostle John wrote "All who dwell on the earth will worship him, [everyone] whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain" (Revelation 13:8).

And here's another of God choosing where the Apostle John wrote of the holy city new Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27).

And here is the indisputable key to God choosing for Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

You, CNKW3, keep proving the accuracy of the Apostle Peter's words because you do not understand the Scripture which you try to interpret in your own faulty interpretation (2 Peter 1:20-21)!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!
 
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