All the ELECT please stand up

[Kermos]

Woe to you free willers because you erroneously claim to give yourself to God with zero scriptural agreement; in contrast, Lord Jesus says "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me" (John 6:37, John 6:64-65, John 17:2. John 17:6. John 17:9. John 17:24)!



The Word of God, quoted in the following links to posts in this thread, reveals freewill is treacherously rebellious and a damnable lie.

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- [URL="https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/all-the-elect-please-stand-up.29146/page-7#post-576827"]The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post

- The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post

- Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles "All the Time" Post

- The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post

- (1) The Twelve mentioned in Matthew 26:20 et. al. does not indicate "only" the twelve, (2) Lord Jesus indicates in John 17:20 that the content of John chapters 13-17 applies to all His disciples of all time, and (3) the "you" in John 14:16 and the "you" in John 15:16 refer to all the disciples of Jesus in all time because of the about 120 recorded in Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:1-4 receiving the Holy Spirit as well as the Gentiles at Cornelius' place recorded in Acts 10:44 receiving the Holy Spirit Post

- The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post

- The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post

- The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post

- The God Chooses/Elects Unto Salvation Post

- Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post

- The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post

- Addendum to Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17 Post Explaining Absence Of Choose Conjugate As Well As IF/THEN Application In Genesis 1-3 Post

- 1 Timothy 2:4 Exposited Truthfully That The Work Is Not Of Man Rather The Work Is Of God Post

- Demonstrating "Whole World" Indicates Multiple Meanings Regarding People In First John Where Two Starkly Differing Uses Of "World" Occur (1 John 2:2 and 1 John 5:19) Post

- The Further Use Of "World" Exposited Truthfully Demonstrating That Belief/Faith In A Believer Is A Work of God - John 3:16 and John 6:29 and John 15:16 Post

- The Intrinsic Quality of Christ Jesus includes God Choosing People for Salvation Not Vice Versa Post

- The Blessed Assurance of True Godly Worship and Love Post

- The Blood of Christ Being The Wedding Garment in Matthew 22:1-14 Post

- Both the promise of the Holy Spirit and the declaration by Lord Jesus that God chooses people not people choosing God occur in the self-same supper encounter described by the Apostle John in chapters 13 - 17 Post

Free-Will Doctrinal Error Amplified By Faulty English Translations And Free-Willian Lust For Glory In Salvation Exposed:

+ "@Taken: Do Not Be Taken Away In Free-will Error By Faulty English Translations (Includes Faulty Change Covenant To Agreement Rebuttal) Post

+ @GodsGrace: List of Lies Including About History Post

+ @GodsGrace: Illegally Try To Shoehorn 'Choose' Into John 3:16 Post

+ @GodsGrace: The Majesty of God in Matthew 6:13 - God leads, God delivers; God's Power Forever, God's Glory Forever Post

+ @CNKW3: Beholding Greek of 1 Peter 1:21-22 to see "God the souls of you having-purified in the obedience of-the truth" NOT people purifying themselves RATHER God purifying people Post

+ @CNKW3: Vessels Of Mercy Obey God In God's Power Versus Vessels Of Destruction Deny God's Word In Their Own Sin Post

+ @CNKW3: Persists In Denial Of The Word Of God By CNKW3 Trying To Make The Apostle Peter Say Different Than Lord Jesus Post

+ @CNKW3: More About Phrases About God's Control Sandwiching The Free-will Illusion Phrase Of The English Mistranslations of 1 Peter 1:22 Post

+ @CNKW3: More About Verses About The Promise Of The Holy Spirit To All Believers In All Time Presented By Lord Jesus At The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 With The Implications Of Jesus Saying 'You' In John 15:16 Post

+ @CNKW3: More Proof That The Word 'IF' Does Not Denote Ability Post

+ @CNKW3: Obey Defined Is 'To Fulfill The Command' - There Is No 'Choice' In The Definition With Scriptural Support For 'Believe' Not 'Choose To Believe' Post

+ @Enoch111: Fails to Understand 'Receive' Definition While Fails To Understand Acts 2 While Failing To Understand John 3:16 Post

+ @Earburner: adds "whosoever" to Revelation 22:17 right in front of condemnation for adding to Revelation in Revelation 22:18 as well as misapplies Hebrews 2:9

+ @Earburner: adds context illegally to Revelation 3:20 to try to support free-will

+ @brakelite: Do not break the light! Love is a Fruit of the Spirit of Truth (Galatians 5:22), so a person must be born of the Holy Spirit to love (John 3:3) and understand love (1 Corinthians 13:1-13)

Continued to post #1362[/URL]

 

[Kermos]

Continued from post #1361

Returning to more of the Word of God, quoted in the following links, revealing freewill devotee's treachery and rebellion.

- God Blesses Us With Biblical History, And Free Willians/Pelagians/Armenians Fail To Understand History Post

- A Command Does Not Convey Ability To Carry Out The Command Post

- Squelching the Armenian Argument Of 'God specifically chooses to send some persons to hell' Post

- The Word of God Eliminates WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS Post

- The Apostle Peter Reiterates The Promise Of The Holy Spirit For All Believers In All Time (Acts 2:38-39 and Acts 2:18) That Lord Jesus Gave (John 15:26) Post

- All NT Letters Are To Believers So The Holy Spirit Gives Perspective In Hebrews 2:9 And "whosoever" Is Absent From Revelation 22:17

- We Believers Are Adopted In (Ephesians 1:5), Grafted In (Romans 11:17), Birthed In To The Kingdom Of God (John 3:3, John 3:5)

- Richly Scriptural post illuminating the exclusive sovereignty of God in man's salvation

- Fruit of the Holy Spirit of God in we believers explained, and this post includes the contrast between fruit of the flesh and Fruit of the Spirit of God

- Baptism/Immersion is of God, Living Water, in we believers

- BAPTISM, BELIEVERS, AND BEAUTY: The Godly Understanding Of Immersion in and exclusively by the Holy Spirit

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!

God saves by God's grace for God's glory! Praise the Lord Jesus!

 

[CNKW3]

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

just because you say so doesn’t make it so. You know this don’t you!

 

[Kermos]

I’m just saying...the people who actually had the HS could prove it. You nor anyone like you who claims this can prove anything. You just go by feel. What if that feel comes from the devil. What if the Spirit you believe you have came from Satan? In acts 23 Paul said he had lived in all good conscience up until that day. So, this means that the whole time he was persecuting Christians he thought he was doing the right thing in the eyes of God. Was he? Would be have been in good standing with the lord even though he had a good clean conscience? The conscience proves nothing if it’s not backed up by truth. Real truth, not what you think truth is.
Jesus said...he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. That is real truth.
In acts 2....those that were baptized were added to the lords body. The body of those who are saved. This is real truth whether you believe it or not.

First of all, the Apostle Peter wrote "know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (2 Peter 1:20-21). A person without the indwelling Holy Spirit cannot properly understand Scripture, and by your own admission, CNKW3, you are in the category of a person without the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Since you are blind to what the God of all creation (including over believers and the very belief/faith of believers) does with me physically and spiritually, that puts you the position of "speaking evil" (Matthew 5:11). Well, CNKW3, the father of lies is the devil (John 8:44)!

Now, since you do not understand Scripture, by your own admission (see the first paragraph), you do not understand Acts 2.

"So then, those who had received his word were immersed; and that day there were added about three thousand souls" (Acts 2:41). They were immersed in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ (note that the passage does not state the "baptism of John" nor "immersed in a bath of water"), but immersion in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ is what they were immersed in "THAT DAY"!

Repentance in a believer is a work of God, see the first post on this page 69 for the link to the scripturally laden explanation of repentance being a work of God.

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!

 

[CNKW3]

(2 Peter 1:20-21). A person without the indwelling Holy Spirit cannot properly understand Scripture, and by your own admission, CNKW3, you are in the category of a person without the indwelling Holy Spirit.

This IS NOT what 2 pet 1 is teaching. All this is telling us is that the men who wrote these books didn’t write from their own understanding and interpretation. They got their information “divinely” through the HS. It didn’t come from their mind but from the mind of God through the direction of the Spirit.
This passage has NOTHING to do with us “interpreting” scripture. One DOES NOT have to be directly illuminated by the HS to understand scripture! Paul in Ephesians wrote that.....when you read you can understand. He didn’t say....you can ONLY understand when the Spirit falls on you to illuminate.

 

[CNKW3]

You rather miss the essential part of the verse here. It says "The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul". It was only then that she was baptized.

In other words, God sent the Holy Spirit to her,

I want to use this to highlight how corrupt people are with the word of God. Let’s first post the entire passage...
Acts 16:14-15 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
Does this passage mention ANYTHING about the Holy Spirit? NO! So how can anybody say.....”God sent the HS to her”. This is a flat out lie. If it’s not then show me in the passage where she received the Spirit. All it says is.....”whose heart the lord opened”. Does it say HOW the lord opened her heart? NO!
That statement actually is made AFTER the passage said....Lydia, which worshiped God, HEARD US: then it says...whose heart the lord opened. We can actually infer that her heart was opened by the word of God spoken to her.

regenerated her,

Does the passage say ANYTHING about the HS “regenerating her”? No. You made this up. That is corrupt.

opened and renewed her heart to the truth.

Does it say.....”the Spirit opened her heart”. No.

He saved her; and in response to that, now able to understand her need for a Saviour, and wanting to be obedient to God, THEN she was baptized.

Does this passage mention “salvation” at all? NO! You made that up. You saved the woman at the point of hearing the word. The lord never said anything about her “being saved”. This is corrupt use of scripture.
The passage actually says.....(after baptism) “if you have found me to be faithful”.
We can infer by what and when she said this that it was only AFTER baptism that she is to be considered faithful.

As I say; Salvation comes first, then obedience follows. Obedience cannot earn salvation.

You say one thing....
The TRUTH says..... Christ is the author of eternal salvation (there actually is the word salvation) to all that OBEY him. What if you don’t OBEY him? Are you saved? NO!
That is truth whether you believe it, accept it, or not!

 

[CNKW3]

The same is true of the Eunuch. We see Philip read the word to him, and preach the gospel of Christ. And the Eunuch, understanding, then wanted to be baptized. People cannot understand the truth of God's word without the Holy Spirit first regenerating them. Salvation giving them a new heart to see.

Let’s continue with our review of how corrupt people can be with the word of God.

Does the passage with the Eunuch EVER say that “the HS regenerated him”? No!
Does this passage EVER say the HS fell on him? No!
The truth of this passage above is that the HS actually came to the preacher Philip and told him to go to the Eunuch. Nowhere does it say that the Spirit ever came directly to the Eunuch.
The Eunuch actually knew that a preacher and not the Spirit was needed for understanding....
Acts 8:30-31 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Why didn’t Philip straighten him out and say.....”the HS has to come and illuminate you for you to understand”? Philip must of messed up, because all he did was preach Jesus to him. To preach Jesus is to preach “the gospel”. And this preaching led the Eunuch to be baptized. It was AFTER he was baptized that the passage says he “rejoiced”!
That is the truth of the passage whether you like it, believe it, accept it or not.

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed?And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?...But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. -Romans 10:14, 16–17

For some reason this person left out verse 13 which sets the context of this little section. What does it say.....
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
so, when we read this passage we learn that a person must “call” in order to be saved. And the process of “belief” comes BEFORE one even “calls”. We learn for a fact that the process of “believing” and “calling” are separate. They are different. You can “believe” on Christ without actually calling on his name.
So, the big question is.....HOW DOES ONE “CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD”.?
We find this phrase in two other locations and is it any surprise that baptism is a part of both passages.
In acts 2 Peter told the crowd....whosoever shall call on the name of the lord shall be saved.
They then heard the preaching and asked...what shall we do? Do? Do what? Call on the name of the lord.
Peter then told them how to call. Repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of their sins. If not, why not.

In acts 22 Saul was told by a preacher to “arise and be baptized to wash away his sins CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD.
This is beautiful bible commentary on what it actually means to “call on the name of the lord”.
And, we see that it includes baptism, which according to this same passage, washes away sin.
Acts 2 and acts 16 are in full harmony. Both passages teaching the exact same thing.
The Bible will explain itself if you just let it and stop adding to scripture things that aren’t there.

 

[Kermos]

This IS NOT what 2 pet 1 is teaching. All this is telling us is that the men who wrote these books didn’t write from their own understanding and interpretation. They got their information “divinely” through the HS. It didn’t come from their mind but from the mind of God through the direction of the Spirit.
This passage has NOTHING to do with us “interpreting” scripture. One DOES NOT have to be directly illuminated by the HS to understand scripture! Paul in Ephesians wrote that.....when you read you can understand. He didn’t say....you can ONLY understand when the Spirit falls on you to illuminate.

Wrong again, CNKW3! You just proved the words of the Apostle Peter because you do not understand the Scripture which you try to interpret in your own faulty interpretation (2 Peter 1:20-21)!

The Apostle Peter wrote "no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of one's own interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20-21) in this Peter clearly states when Scripture is written AND when the Scripture is read this applies, and Peter tells us believers that "for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will" in this Peter clearly states that no prophecy/proclamation/evangelism for God can be made by human will (notice that Peter does not say Scripture but rather prophecy) thus it is BY GOD, and Peter tells we believers "men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" thus Peter clearly states how prophecy and understanding comes about in we believers by in the Holy Spirit using men moved by the Holy Spirit which goes right back to the Holy Spirit being needed by us believers since Peter wrote "no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of one's own interpretation" thus we indwelt by the Holy Spirit believers do not interpret Scripture by our own interpretation rather we receive interpretation of Scripture by the Holy Spirit of God.

Just as Lord Jesus promised to us believers with His blessed words of "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear [them] now. But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose [it] to you. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose [it] to you." (John 16:7-15).

THE APOSTLE PETER (2 PETER 1:20-21) IS IN ACCORD WITH THE LORD JESUS (JOHN 16:7-15)!

CNKW3, YOU ARE OUT OF ACCORD WITH BOTH THE APOSTLE PETER (2 PETER 1:20-21) AND THE LORD JESUS (JOHN 16:7-15)!

You not understanding Scripture results in your teaching of your own flawed interpretation of Scripture, so you teach the traditions of men that leads to death!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!

 

[CNKW3]

Wrong again, CNKW3! You just proved the words of the Apostle Peter because you do not understand the Scripture which you try to interpret in your own faulty interpretation (2 Peter 1:20-21)!

The Apostle Peter wrote "no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of one's own interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20-21) in this Peter clearly states when Scripture is written AND when the Scripture is read this applies, and Peter tells us believers that "for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will" in this Peter clearly states that no prophecy/proclamation/evangelism for God can be made by human will (notice that Peter does not say Scripture but rather prophecy) thus it is BY GOD, and Peter tells we believers "men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" thus Peter clearly states how prophecy and understanding comes about in we believers by in the Holy Spirit using men moved by the Holy Spirit which goes right back to the Holy Spirit being needed by us believers since Peter wrote "no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of one's own interpretation" thus we indwelt by the Holy Spirit believers do not interpret Scripture by our own interpretation rather we receive interpretation of Scripture by the Holy Spirit of God.

Just as Lord Jesus promised to us believers with His blessed words of "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear [them] now. But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose [it] to you. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose [it] to you." (John 16:7-15).

THE APOSTLE PETER (2 PETER 1:20-21) IS IN ACCORD WITH THE LORD JESUS (JOHN 16:7-15)!

CNKW3, YOU ARE OUT OF ACCORD WITH BOTH THE APOSTLE PETER (2 PETER 1:20-21) AND THE LORD JESUS (JOHN 16:7-15)!

You not understanding Scripture results in your teaching of your own flawed interpretation of Scripture, so you teach the traditions of men that leads to death!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!

2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
He states...”the scripture”. He is speaking of divinely revealed knowledge.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
He states...”the prophecy”. Points back to and is synonymous with “the scripture”.
“Came not in old time”. He is NOT talking about us today. He is talking about those of old who were guided by the Spirit. This has nothing to do with us today.
You don’t care about truth and I know that. I only answer this from time to time to maybe help someone else learn what is truth and to not be mislead by people like you.

 

[Naomi25]

I’m just saying...the people who actually had the HS could prove it. You nor anyone like you who claims this can prove anything. You just go by feel. What if that feel comes from the devil. What if the Spirit you believe you have came from Satan? In acts 23 Paul said he had lived in all good conscience up until that day. So, this means that the whole time he was persecuting Christians he thought he was doing the right thing in the eyes of God. Was he? Would be have been in good standing with the lord even though he had a good clean conscience? The conscience proves nothing if it’s not backed up by truth. Real truth, not what you think truth is.
Jesus said...he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. That is real truth.
In acts 2....those that were baptized were added to the lords body. The body of those who are saved. This is real truth whether you believe it or not.

No, actually, I don't go by "feel". I go by scripture. Lots of scripture. Scripture I presented to you in aching detail. But when ones mind and eyes are shut, it doesn't matter what is presented to them, they won't see it or accept it. You demand a sort of evidence you yourself cannot provide; a scripture verse that states that salvation is by 'x' "alone". There is not a verse that says that salvation is by baptism 'alone' or by works 'alone'. So you hoard together a little check list like a good little pharisee, all the while ignoring the looming logical fact that when the bible says that salvation is through grace which is a 'free gift, lest we should boast', it discounts every. other. thing. on your checklist. A thing cannot be free if you pay for it.

This conversation puts me to mind of a rather famous passage in a book, perhaps you've read it?

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing."


You place so much weight and time and effort on making your opponent produce 'the perfect verse' that provides 'absolute proof' in the wording alone that salvation comes by faith 'alone'...hoping that when that 'proof' cannot be bought forth your own argument will be considered valid in an ipso facto way. But all the while you ignore the fact that just because something is not said in the manner you desire, does not mean the intent is not overwhelmingly clear.
In other words, for you to have a leg to stand on, you must prove why baptism and works are not, in fact, a way in which we 'earn' our own salvation. Which will be tough, since works, by definition, outright state we work to obtain something, or at the most, contribute to it.
Which means you must prove that Paul is lying when he says that grace is a free gift. Or that he is wrong. But if either one is the case, then the inerrancy of scripture is suspect, and we can then go on to be killed on the next zebra crossing.

 

[CNKW3]

No, actually, I don't go by "feel". I go by scripture. Lots of scripture. Scripture I presented to you in aching detail. But when ones mind and eyes are shut, it doesn't matter what is presented to them, they won't see it or accept it.

If you went by scripture then you would notice that those in the scripture that had the Spirit could demonstrate something. They could prove that the Spirit was working through them. You, nor anyone like you can do that. You just make a claim and we are supposed to accept it. Not me.

You demand a sort of evidence you yourself cannot provide;

I don’t need to provide evidence. I don’t have the direct operation of the HS. I can prove that I have obeyed the gospel which leads to salvation. I did exactly what everybody else, in these scriptures you so love, did in order to become a child of God. You didn’t. You claim something that we cannot even find ONE EXAMPLE of in the new covenant. But that doesn’t matter to you or to 90% of “Christendom”

a scripture verse that states that salvation is by 'x' "alone". There is not a verse that says that salvation is by baptism 'alone' or by works 'alone'.

Amen! But there is a verse that says.....salvation is NOT by faith alone. What can we learn from that? Salvation is by NOTHING alone.

So you hoard together a little check list like a good little pharisee, all the while ignoring the looming logical fact that when the bible says that salvation is through grace which is a 'free gift, lest we should boast', it discounts every. other. thing. on your checklist. A thing cannot be free if you pay for it.

I don’t bind anything that Christ has not already bound. It was Jesus that said...he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. I didn’t say that. But yes that is binding on everyone. If not why not? And if you are going to claim that doesn’t belong in the Bible then present the reputable bible that has left it out.
Jesus confronted the Pharisees in Mt 15. He said....you honor me with your mouth but your heart is far from me (why) because you teach for doctrine the commandments of men.
This is EXACTLY what you do. Your way of salvation can’t be found in the book. So your doctrine is a commandment of men.

This conversation puts me to mind of a rather famous passage in a book, perhaps you've read it?

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing."

I don’t care what some man wrote. God has proven he exists. Jesus said....if you’ve seen me you’ve seen the father. Jn 14:9.
God NEVER said....”I refuse to prove I exist”. This is more human reasoning that leads to destruction.
Read job 40

You place so much weight and time and effort on making your opponent produce 'the perfect verse' that provides 'absolute proof' in the wording alone that salvation comes by faith 'alone'...hoping that when that 'proof' cannot be bought forth your own argument will be considered valid in an ipso facto way. But all the while you ignore the fact that just because something is not said in the manner you desire, does not mean the intent is not overwhelmingly clear.

If it was “overwhelmingly clear” there should be example after example of people being declared “saved” after belief/faith alone. We should see many examples of people “believing in order to wash away their sins”. Where are they? Show me one. I am in the process of going passage by passage to show how you have corrupted the word of God. You add words to EVERY example and passage you post. That is dishonest and corrupt. There is no other way to describe it. I get tired of people making things up and claiming that it’s in the Bible. That is why we have 1000 denominations and everybody divided. John Wesley said he had a warm feeling come over him and he knew the HS fell on him and that he was saved right then, BAM. The Methodist church was started. None of it based on the Bible.
A corrupt organization that has women “pastors” and it won’t be long and they’ll have gay “pastors” if they don’t already do. I know they are voting and arguing about it right now. Can you believe an organization that claims Christ is even having a discussion about whether homosexuality is a sin or not? Corrupt! And ridiculous! You like the word “ridiculous”. That’s ridiculous.

In other words, for you to have a leg to stand on, you must prove why baptism and works are not, in fact, a way in which we 'earn' our own salvation. Which will be tough, since works, by definition, outright state we work to obtain something, or at the most, contribute to it.
Which means you must prove that Paul is lying when he says that grace is a free gift. Or that he is wrong. But if either one is the case, then the inerrancy of scripture is suspect, and we can then go on to be killed on the next zebra crossing.

Paul isn’t lying. Grace is free but grace is not cheap. Paul doesn’t teach cheap grace. There is a difference. We are saved by faith as well as grace which my 11 year old son even knows that 1+1=2. So, therefore salvation is by nothing alone.

Let me ask you a question....
When you read Mt 25 and the throne scene when Christ returns; isn’t Christ separating people by works? Those that did good are sheep. Those that didn’t are goats. Please tell me how this isn’t an example of a person “working” for their salvation? Because the passage clearly describes a separation based on works. But according to you if we “work” at all we are going against Christ.

You never responded to the questions and examples I placed at the end of post 1338. Please tell me if anybody in those examples “earned” what they would receive if they complied with the conditions.
In order to win a hundred million dollar lottery you....
First have to buy a ticket (a dollar or so)
Find out when the winning numbers are going to be announced
Find out how those numbers will be posted (tv, paper, website, etc)
You have to look up the winning numbers and compare to yours
You then have to call and claim that you won. (They will then make you prove it)
You will have to travel and present the hard evidence (the ticket) to show you have won and to claim your prize.
All of this is required. Did any of it merit one hundred million dollars? Isn’t this a free gift? A gift you in NO WAY deserve or worked for even though there were things you were required to do.
Does “freedom” in this world ever come “free”. Without any effort whatsoever?
Grace is receiving something we don’t deserve. It doesn’t mean nothing is required to benefit from it.

 

[Naomi25]

If you went by scripture then you would notice that those in the scripture that had the Spirit could demonstrate something. They could prove that the Spirit was working through them. You, nor anyone like you can do that. You just make a claim and we are supposed to accept it. Not me.

My good sir....you wouldn't know me from Eve. So what makes you any sort of a judge over what is happening within my life? Do you somehow have Gods powers that you are aware of the fruit showing or not showing within my life?
Or are you waiting for me to trot out a list of the wonderful things I am producing...which would be boasting, a form of pride, and could quite easily be lies as well.
No, not only do I not NEED to prove this to you, I should not. I can say with honesty that Jesus Christ is Lord of my life, that he died for my sins and I now live for him. Anything else is between me and God and you should not stick your nose in. If you know me personally and feel the fruit or, non-fruit, if the case may be, is not reflecting my statements, then adjust your relationship with me accordingly and pray for me. But it is not for you to judge where my soul is, simply because you cannot know.

 

[CNKW3]

My good sir....you wouldn't know me from Eve. So what makes you any sort of a judge over what is happening within my life? Do you somehow have Gods powers that you are aware of the fruit showing or not showing within my life?
Or are you waiting for me to trot out a list of the wonderful things I am producing...which would be boasting, a form of pride, and could quite easily be lies as well.
No, not only do I not NEED to prove this to you, I should not. I can say with honesty that Jesus Christ is Lord of my life, that he died for my sins and I now live for him. Anything else is between me and God and you should not stick your nose in. If you know me personally and feel the fruit or, non-fruit, if the case may be, is not reflecting my statements, then adjust your relationship with me accordingly and pray for me. But it is not for you to judge where my soul is, simply because you cannot know.

Here’s the...”you can’t judge me speech”. I believe you have passed plenty of judgement on me too. But I disagree! There is plenty of information and “fruit” to go by.
For example.
Look what you did with Rom 6:17,18.
You specifically said that this passage teaches.....”we get set free first then we respond”. Really?
Let’s look...
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
You were the servants of sin BUT, BUT you have obeyed the teaching delivered you. I don’t see any setting free in this verse. Look how the ERV puts it....

In the past you were slaves to sin—sin controlled you. But thank God, you fully obeyed what you were taught
Let’s continue.

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Here we have “setting free”, and it didn’t come first.
BEING THEN, (when) after obedience you were THEN made free from sin (set free) and became servants of righteousness.
What comes first in this passage? OBEDIENCE then SETTING FREE. Only the intellectually dishonest will say what you said. If you had the HS you wouldn’t have destroyed this passage the way you did.
You stated that... “OBEDIENCE cannot come first”. If you had the HS you would never make that comment. There is plenty of fruit to go by to pass judgement here. I don’t need to know you personally. You can give all to charity and work every soup kitchen out there and it gets you no closer to heaven.

 

[Naomi25]

Here’s the...”you can’t judge me speech”. I believe you have passed plenty of judgement on me too. But I disagree! There is plenty of information and “fruit” to go by.

You might disagree. And you might indeed be in a place to 'judge'...if you knew me. That was my point, which you rather tidily stepped around...again. I have disagreed rather heartily with your 'doctrines', rather than your deeds, which you deem me 'judging you'. You are attempting to pass judgements upon my deeds. Which interests me because I wonder how you can have any idea OF my deeds.

But sure....okay...no, YOU cannot judge me. You don't know me. You don't know the things I do in the quiet of the day, or when things get busy. You don't know what I do, say or think when things are hard, or tiring, or sick or frightning, or amazing and fun. You don't know how I respond when the only thing solid, reliable and safe in the world is Christ.
YOU have not walked with me through all the days of my life. YOU have not seen me grow, stumble, fall, get back up, cry out for God or sing for the pure joy of him. Nor have YOU placed a love in my heart for his truth and word, which I enjoy digging into.

So, tell me. If you place such weight on works, on the showing of fruit....how then will YOU judge me, when you are in NO position to know me, or to see ANY of my works or fruits? To be perfectly honest, its a little like reading a Womans Day mag and thinking you KNOW Kim Kardashian, simply because of two photos (heavily touched up no doubt) and a column full of lies. Only, I'd posit there'd be more info about Kim in there than you'd be able to pin on me. But, by all means, judge away. Based upon what, I have no idea, but considering it's got to be on bogus things, I must say, I'm not at all concerned.

 

[CNKW3]

You might disagree. And you might indeed be in a place to 'judge'...if you knew me. That was my point, which you rather tidily stepped around...again. I have disagreed rather heartily with your 'doctrines', rather than your deeds, which you deem me 'judging you'. You are attempting to pass judgements upon my deeds. Which interests me because I wonder how you can have any idea OF my deeds.

But sure....okay...no, YOU cannot judge me. You don't know me. You don't know the things I do in the quiet of the day, or when things get busy. You don't know what I do, say or think when things are hard, or tiring, or sick or frightning, or amazing and fun. You don't know how I respond when the only thing solid, reliable and safe in the world is Christ.
YOU have not walked with me through all the days of my life. YOU have not seen me grow, stumble, fall, get back up, cry out for God or sing for the pure joy of him. Nor have YOU placed a love in my heart for his truth and word, which I enjoy digging into.

So, tell me. If you place such weight on works, on the showing of fruit....how then will YOU judge me, when you are in NO position to know me, or to see ANY of my works or fruits? To be perfectly honest, its a little like reading a Womans Day mag and thinking you KNOW Kim Kardashian, simply because of two photos (heavily touched up no doubt) and a column full of lies. Only, I'd posit there'd be more info about Kim in there than you'd be able to pin on me. But, by all means, judge away. Based upon what, I have no idea, but considering it's got to be on bogus things, I must say, I'm not at all concerned.

Good to see you didn’t read my post. I don’t judge personally. I only judge what you say and what you do to scripture. And there is plenty of fruit there.

 

[CNKW3]

Have you read the OT? Israel proved to us again and again that the human condition IS pretty pathetic. And that even the 'good, obedient fellows' who managed to follow all the rules nice and proper, like Paul, were just unbending, uptight, legalistic rule-followers who were NOT saved and were called vipers by our Lord.
If you are looking for something that is NOT pathetic, look to Jesus. That is why he came, after all, he came to save us. He came because we couldn't save ourselves. All our own strivings only led to legalism. Which is what you are pushing.

I don’t need to know you and your everyday activities. The highlighted part above is all I need to know about you to pass judgement. There is plenty of fruit there to go by.
I can tell you are of a denominational background. Maybe even some community church like “acts29” if you go at all. The term “legalism” is a denominational made up phrase first used in the mid 1800’s to label people like me who have the audacity to suggest that we are to live by a standard given to us by God, a law he has provided. But, in fact anyone that adheres to “law” any “law” as a standard is a “legalist”.
Do you believe that we can......
Live in adultery?
Live in fornication?
Live as a homosexual?
Live as a liar?
Not attend a worship service of the saints?
Don’t have to repent for Salvation?
If you adhere to any one of the laws above given to us by Christ then you are a “legalist”.
If you want to teach a doctrine that says we have no standard that we are accountable to then you go ahead. Take that to your grave and see what kind of reception you get.

It was Peter that taught....
God accepts those that fear him and works righteousness. Acts 10:35.
That’s what I teach. You teach the opposite. It came from Peter not me. Peter says we must “work” in order to be accepted.
You also loosely label me a pharisee. Did Christ have a problem with Pharisees because they obeyed “law”? No! They established their own law and mandated all adhere to them.
Mt 15, Mk 7. Jesus reproved them for “teaching as doctrine the commandments of men”. This is what you do. You teach....accepting Jesus and praying for salvation. Not found anywhere in the Bible.
Paul described them this way...
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
This kind of attitude led them to have no humility whatsoever. They trusted in self. They followed their own law and not Gods.
Take Billy Graham as an example. He preached Jesus and then asked people to come up front as an act of confession, he would say a prayer with them, give them some literature, and then they were to go attend the church of their choice. NOWHERE is that ever found in the Bible! Nowhere! He made that up so his large crusades would be easy and convenient. Please show me where ANYBODY taught that in the NT! He taught for doctrine the commandments of men.
The lord taught....he that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
That’s what I teach. I didn’t make it up. It didn't come from me.
So, you see. I don’t need to know you to pass judgement. You give me plenty of fruit to go by.

 

[Naomi25]

Good to see you didn’t read my post. I don’t judge personally. I only judge what you say and what you do to scripture. And there is plenty of fruit there.

Oh, of course! Why wouldn't you judge someone based on the fact that you disagree with them? I'm clearly a heretic. All the verses I posted were clearly out of context and you had no choice but to ignore them and label me false. Absolutely there is enough there to know me fully and declare my fruit rotten.
I'm not sure if I can say this with enough emphasis; but you might be suprised at how little your judgement means to me. I know full well I am not perfect, but my conscience is clear; I am saved, I do follow my Lord, and I am confident that in this matter, my reading of scripture is not confused or erroneous. And in the face of that and the Spirits leading, there is sweet nothing you can do or say that can have the slightest effect on me.
You began by demanding verses; which I gave and you blew off because they simply did not say it HOW you wanted it to say it. And ignored that your own arguments did not have corresponding verses to back you up either. To smooth that over, you decided to to go on the offensive and question my status in the Lord, making a point that while YOU could 'prove' you were saved, there was nothing I could do to prove it to you. Of course, had you not ignored (conveniently) the verses I first posted, that point of attack would have been moot. It was at this point I realised that nothing I could do or say would mean or achieve anything. Any person willing to look at clear and obvious scripture and brush it aside with a "it lacks a single word, so I'll just ignore its clear meaning", is not someone you can have a rational conversation with.
Thus, this has become a waste of my time. I'll be signing off now.

 

[Kermos]

2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
He states...”the scripture”. He is speaking of divinely revealed knowledge.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
He states...”the prophecy”. Points back to and is synonymous with “the scripture”.
“Came not in old time”. He is NOT talking about us today. He is talking about those of old who were guided by the Spirit. This has nothing to do with us today.
You don’t care about truth and I know that. I only answer this from time to time to maybe help someone else learn what is truth and to not be mislead by people like you.

Your, CNKW3, practice of deception is exposed in the following!

"Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence" (2 Peter 1:1-3).

The Apostle Peter, here in 2 Peter 1:1-3, establishes important points for 2 Peter 1:20-21.

We believers receive faith/belief from God "to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours".

I would like to emphasize "TO THOSE WHO HAVE RECEIVED A FAITH OF THE SAME KIND AS OURS"

CNKW3 contradicts the Apostle Peter with the false claim that the indwelling Holy Spirit was ONLY for the Apostles, so, by extension, CNKW3 conveys the deceptive assertion that the Apostles had a different kind of faith.

Peter, the Apostle, writes "To those who reside as aliens" and "who are chosen" (1 Peter 1:1) "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father" and "by the sanctifying work of the Spirit" (1 Peter 1:2) conveys that we believers have THE SAME KIND OF FAITH and we believers are indwelled by the Holy Spirit!

Continuing to the next phrase that the Apostle Peter wrote "to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood" (1 Peter 1:2), so obedience is "by the sanctifying work of the Spirit" (1 Peter 1:2)!

Sanctification in we believers is work of the Spirit of the Living God (1 Peter 1:1-3, 1 Peter 1:21-22)! Obedience is part of sanctification.

Knowledge is by God's grace to we believers "grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord".

God grants to us believers EVERYTHING pertaining to life (John 14:6) and godliness which includes the knowledge of God "seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness". BEHOLD, GOD'S DIVINE POWER GRANTS EVERYTHING PERTAINING TO LIFE (JOHN 14:6) AND GODLINESS (2 Peter 1:3) THUS THIS IS AN EXCLUSIVE STATEMENT THAT SALVATION IS BY GOD'S GRACE FOR GOD'S GLORY ALL BY GOD ALONE!

Faith, knowledge, obedience, life, and godliness are all from God to us believers - thus the Apostle Peter opens the book of Second Peter - the Apostle Peter expounds that salvation and sanctification are by God alone!

In the self-same chapeter, we find the Apostle Peter attributing knowledge to God as we find the Apostle Peter writing that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of one's own interpretation!

In the verse immediately prior to writing that it's not of "one's own interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20), we find "we have the prophetic word [made] more sure" in 2 Peter 1:19. Looking in the preceding passage, we find "such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, 'This is My beloved Son with
whom I am well-pleased'" (2 Peter 1:17)! Behold, a prophetic word about Lord Jesus! Behold, in Second Peter chapter 1, the Apostle Peter gives a prophetic word about Lord Jesus, so it is not Peter's own interpretation rather it is written in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit!

You vainly try to apply the "prophecy" to "old time" exclusively within the passage of 2 Peter 1:20-21 including "no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of one's own interpretation"; however, the words "old time" are not in the Greek, and for good reason, the Apostle Peter clearly conveys that any prophecy, whether written or spoken, by one of us believers is not a matter of one's own interpretation which means the prophecy/writing/speaking/proclamation/evangelism is the moving of the indwelling Holy Spirit within us believers.

You, CNKW3, deny the indwelling Holy Spirit; therefore, your own interpretation of the Apostle Peter's writing (2 Peter 1:20) is dead wrong in your own restriction to exclusively the prophets of old!

You are also dead wrong in your claim that you can choose Jesus which is the opposite of that which Lord Jesus said (John 15:16); therefore, you call the Word of Truth a lie!

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS. LORD JESUS SPEAKS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL TIME BECAUSE HE ALSO SAID "I DO NOT ASK ON BEHALF OF THESE ALONE, BUT FOR THOSE ALSO WHO BELIEVE IN ME THROUGH THEIR WORD" (JOHN 17:20)! ALL THESE WORDS OF JESUS ARE AT THE SAME SUPPER! ALL GLORY IS GOD'S! WITH MAN, SALVATION IS IMPOSSIBLE (MATTHEW 19:25-26)! ALL GLORY IN THE SALVATION OF MAN IS GOD'S (JOHN 15:5, ISAIAH 42:8)!

 

[CNKW3]

Well, even if we count Mark 16 as to be counted as canon, you will still note that 'baptism' comes AFTER 'believe' in the sentence structure. So even there...no...baptism does NOT, in any way, shape or form, come BEFORE, in Christ's teachings, before 'believing'. And you will also note that the passage goes onto say that 'he who does not believe will be condenmed.'
Christ does not say "he who does not get baptised will be condemned." And that is what you are doing; you are conflating baptism with salvation.

Please show me (anybody show me) a reputable translation that has left Mk 16:16 out.
There are two statements in Mk 16:16. One tells us how to be saved and the other tells us how to be damned. If you want salvation you will believe and be baptized. If you don’t believe you will be damned. It doesn’t matter if you are baptized or not. You are still lost.
For example...
Baptist and many others teach that you are saved and then baptized weeks later at some ceremony. This baptism is NOT preceded by a proper belief therefore does not lead to salvation. Why, because these people DO NOT believe that baptism has anything to do with salvation, so they are just getting wet. They are damned because of unbelief. To believe does come first. Jesus tied belief and baptism to salvation but baptist and many others DO NOT BELIEVE that. That is why their baptism is a waste of time.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. -Ephesians 2:8–10

I'm not sure how much clearer that passage can get. We have been saved through grace and faith. Which is NOT our doing, it is fully a gift, so that we cannot boast. You may think 'boasting in the obedience' of baptism is a foolish thing to suggest, but perhaps you need to look back at the history of foolish things humans can and do claim before God. You would do well to realise that anything our prideful hearts could claim to an advantage, they will. This way...the grace and gift way, there is simply no way. We come empty, upon our knees, hands outstretched. And it is, quite simply, freeing. And as Eph 2:10 says, it allows us to then walk in the obedience of good works with a light heartedness that is not burdened by our own pride.

Did those in Ephesus “just believe”? NO! This is where I’m harmonizing scripture. I actually go back and look at what those in Ephesus did for salvation. They weren’t only baptized but they were baptized twice because the first one was incorrect. This is an example of how one is “saved by grace through faith”. Grace provided the blood of Christ and the way of salvation tit 2:11-13 and faith leads us to obedience so that we might be saved. Eternal life is purely a gift of God. But it is not an unconditional gift. Show me an example of ANYBODY who was “saved” under the new covenant unconditionally.

You seem to be missing the overwhelming point. It wasn't too hard for them....because they had, by that point, received the Holy Spirit. Thus, the obedience being spoken of is in response to the 'believe' that clearly came first. You're most welcome to go back over those passages, but as I pointed out above, the 'hear and believe' quite obviously came first.

Those on Pentecost HAD NOT received the HS. If so, then show when it happened.
Those is Samaria HAD NOT received the HS. The text clearly says.....they heard, believed, and were baptized (saved). But the HS had not fallen on any of them. Acts 8:16.
It is not some “indwelling” of the HS that saves.

I'm starting to 'get' that this is the 'sticking point' between us. You simply don't seem to understand what the bible says about where true salvation and regeneration happens. Read this passage again:

For by graceyou have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. -Ephesians 2:8–9

even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by graceyou have been saved—and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, -Ephesians 2:5–6

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the deathof his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. -Romans 5:10

who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our worksbut because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesusbefore the ages began, -2 Timothy 1:9

Salvation is a GIFT from God, an act of divine will for a divine purpose. Take Paul, for instance. Do you think he was seeking Christ? He was, no doubt, seeking an intense sort of uptight legalism that had no love, joy or breathing room. One that clearly saw it just and right to kill and torment in effort to be right. But God had a purpose for him, and scripture tells us that "while dead in his trespasses, Paul was made alive with Christ". In other words, Christ, not Paul, made the decision. Paul was the recipient of the gift and Christ was the giver. Paul, however, was most grateful, as are all who receive truth and eternal life.

I’ve gone over this before, but what does it mean to be “quickened”, “made alive”? It is being born again is it not? To be born again, made alive, regenerated, quickened, walk in newness of life, new creation; these are all terms to explain the same process.
When a person has been baptized “into Christ” he has become a new creature, 2 cor5:17,
he is now born again (of water and the spirit)
He is quickened or made alive Col 2:11-13
He is raised to walk in newness of life. Rom 6:2-5
He has been regenerated. Tit 3:5 (washing of regeneration).
NOBODY is EVER described in any of the above ways after “faith only”. Show me the example. I’ve already shown to you how those in Ephesus were baptized twice. So, when Paul wrote this letter those in Ephesus had already been “baptized into Christ”. That is how they were saved by grace through faith.

And that's part of the point: Salvation brings the truth. A realisation of the 'old life' you were living, and a desire to see it dead and gone.
You ask me about the need to repent? My word you do! But how does a person repent of a lifestyle that seems fine? The bible tells us that a person without God is 'dead in their trespasses'. How does a dead person know they need to repent? That's like saying a fish knows they need to fly. Why? They like the water, the water is warm and comfortable and all they've ever known.
A person can only become aware of their sin and their need to repent of them...of the conscious need to put them to death one by one, if they can suddenly hold them up to something else...the life of Christ, and know that his life is the one we are truly meant to live. We need to be regenerated before we can acknowledge that.
But don't mistake me; a person who 'claims' to be saved and doesn't feel the need to repent...has not been truly made new. New life brings fruit.

Repentance comes BEFORE salvation.
Acts 2:38, 3:19. 2 Cor 7:10
Repentance is said to be “unto life”. Acts 11:18. Not because you are already alive.
Repentance comes before “turning to God”. Acts 26:20
Your doctrine is completely heretical. I don’t even know where you come up with this stuff. Yes I do! In your own mind!

So, we just ignore everything else within it? Nice try. Like I've said before; unless you manage to harmonize all passages, I'm simply not interested. What you're doing is trying to make one passage mean everything to the exlusion of all the others, and that won't fly.

you are the one that posted romans 4 without considering romans 6. Romans 4 says those that believe are saved. It doesn’t say believe alone. I’ve tried to explain to you what “believe” means in the Bible. It IS NOT mental ascent!
To “believe” is to obey!
When you couple romans 4 with Romans 6 we understand what it means to truly “believe”. A true “believer” obeys from the heart the form of doctrine discussed in Romans 6. And it is AFTER that you are “freed from sin”. 6:17,18
Paul also said, in chapter 8, that there is no condemnation to those who are “in Christ”. Well, let’s harmonize scripture! How, in chapter 6, did Paul say one gets “into Christ”? This is key. You need to be “in Christ” to be free from condemnation.
Paul specifically said....we are “baptized into Christ”. Ro 6:3 This is in complete harmony with all of Paul’s teaching. Are we saved by grace? Yes. Not grace alone. Are we saved by faith? Yes, but not faith alone. Are we saved by baptism? Yes, but not baptism alone.
Harmonizing scripture is exactly what I’m doing.
Here’s another example.
Matthew 21:24-25 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things. The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
what does the text mean here when it says.....”why did you not believe him”?
They would not be baptized with Johns baptism! This is described as “unbelief”. To not obey the teaching of John was to “NOT BELIEVE”.
Belief in the Bible includes obedience.

 

[CNKW3]

CNKW3 contradicts the Apostle Peter with the false claim that the indwelling Holy Spirit was ONLY for the Apostles, so, by extension, CNKW3 conveys the deceptive assertion that the Apostles had a different kind of faith.

Where did I EVER say the “indwelling of the HS” was ONLY for the Apostles? Show me the quote. If not then admit you are building a straw man to argue against. I’ll be looking for my quote about the indwelling.