An Unknown Tongue

[Frank Lee]

Arguments against gifts of the Holy Spirit are with God and His word. Ask Him beyond doctrines.

Speaking in church in tongues and having it interpreted is only a part of its usage. Primarily it is for building up of the believer.

This is nothing new, even the Apostle Paul in the very day of the times of Pentecost had to admonish;

1 Corinthians 14:38-39 KJVS
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
[39] Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

As to the naysayers

Jude 1:19-20 KJVS
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. [20] But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Gamaliel had it right though not a believer;

Acts 5:38-39 KJVS
And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

 

[Helen]

Acts 5:38-39 KJVS
And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Excellent choice of scripture Frank.

I learned from an old saint many years ago.

"You never have to defend God or His word...He is well able to do it Himself, and He does do it, better than we can. "

 

[amadeus]

Is THAT your explanation for why the Holy Spirit is praying in tongues through the believers in making His intercessions known to God?

" If " it is, you haven't fully considered with Jesus Christ at that throne of grace the truth about the Holy Spirit in John 16:13 in how He will not speak His own words nor utter His own intercessions, but only speaks what He hears. That limits God's gift of tongues as being of other men's lips to speak unto the people as 1 Corinthians 14:21 prophesied its usage. To turn it around is confusion and thus proof that supernatural tongue is not His gift of tongues.

We're apart on this in such a way that I'll not explain further. You're already convinced you're right with no possibility of another way being right, so why should I make the effort?

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

Give God the glory! He alone gives any increase!

 

[Frank Lee]

It's regretful at the least that religion and denominations fights so fiercely against those that simply believe what is written. Being attacked for your faith is daily fare for spirit baptized believers.

If any be ignorant so be it. It's only for believers.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Arguments against gifts of the Holy Spirit are with God and His word. Ask Him beyond doctrines.

Speaking in church in tongues and having it interpreted is only a part of its usage. Primarily it is for building up of the believer.

No, it is not. 1 Corinthians 12:7 says that the gifts are for the profit of the assembly, not individual believer. No exception.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

And the gift of tongues nor any other gift is gained by receiving what christians assume was the Holy Spirit apart from salvation when all believers are to share this testimony of being baptized by that one drink of the One Spirit and no more.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

To declare that tongues can be used individually without the body is in effect, running against Paul's words here below.

1 Corinthians 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

So basically, those who use tongues for private use are telling non-tongue speakers that they have no need of any one else, including other tongue speakers. You all claim you can get your own edification , prayer time for the Holy Spirit, praise, giving of thanks, & etc, by tongues without interpretation and yet there is no way you can prove to yourselves what that tongue is doing. Now that is confusion which God is not the author of.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

This is nothing new, even the Apostle Paul in the very day of the times of Pentecost had to admonish;

1 Corinthians 14:38-39 KJVS
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
[39] Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

You are taking that scripture out of context when Paul was talking about the Lord's commandment for women not to speak at all in church.

As to the naysayers

Jude 1:19-20 KJVS
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. [20] But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Your misuse of that verse is telling all other non tongue speaking believers that without tongues, they cannot pray in the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Spirit is in all believers as promised so whenever any one prays, they are praying in the Holy Ghost.

It is wayward believers asking for the Holy Spirit to come fall on them again and again and again after sensational signs are the ones giving the appearance of praying OUT of the Holy Ghost as well as departing from faith that Jesus Christ is in them every time they do that. That is a false witness.

Gamaliel had it right though not a believer;

Acts 5:38-39 KJVS
And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Scripture is not leaving believers using tongues privately alone as gained by a receiving of a spirit apart from salvation, but God is using scripture in exposing that kind of supernatural tongue as not of God. God's gift of tongues are only for speaking unto the people as it is of other men's lips for that purpose.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

To switch it around for private use without even interpretation is a confusion that all tongue speakers of this fashion are ignoring the reality of that kind tongue.

John 16:13 in all Bible versions testify the truth that the Holy Spirit cannot speak nor utter His own intercessions and so He cannot use God's gift of tongues by switching it around for that purpose. That means believers has the supernatural tongue as found in the world as gibberish for why it is not coming with interpretation as it is received by another spirit which was apart from salvation for why the apostle John said not to believe every spirit but test them ( 1 John 4:1,4 ) unless believers start speaking as the world speaks in supernatural tongue which is vain and profane babbling ( 1 John 4:5-6 ).

You need to shun that tongue and stick to the written word of God for your edification.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

His words overthrows your kind of tongue and especially how you gained it by another spirit apart from salvation. Assuming that was the Holy Spirit does not make that spirit so.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

We're apart on this in such a way that I'll not explain further. You're already convinced you're right with no possibility of another way being right, so why should I make the effort?

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

Give God the glory! He alone gives any increase!

You can only prove all things and tests the spirits by His words. Not by "hey if it feels good, it must be God ". There are seducing spirits, you know.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

This was prophesied to happen to believers and why believers are to test the spirits and not believe every one of them as falling on them as being the Holy Spirit. Scripture was given to testify that there is no receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation. Therefore the test is 1 John 4:4 is knowing Jesus Christ is in you as promised at the hearing of the gospel so that any spirit that comes over you after your salvation is NOT the Holy Spirit.

You have to ponder that if tongues are for private use and beneficial, then why aren't all believers gifted in like fashion? Is God showing partiality? No.

Then if we are to abstain from all appearances of evil, then God would also do the very same thing for why that extra is not of God at all.

You guys glory in yourselves for using tongues privately and you do not even see it for why God would never use His gifts of tongues in that way.

 

[Frank Lee]

Have you considered reading g the Bible for

You can only prove all things and tests the spirits by His words. Not by "hey if it feels good, it must be God ". There are seducing spirits, you know.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

This was prophesied to happen to believers and why believers are to test the spirits and not believe every one of them as falling on them as being the Holy Spirit. Scripture was given to testify that there is no receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation. Therefore the test is 1 John 4:4 is knowing Jesus Christ is in you as promised at the hearing of the gospel so that any spirit that comes over you after your salvation is NOT the Holy Spirit.

You have to ponder that if tongues are for private use and beneficial, then why aren't all believers gifted in like fashion? Is God showing partiality? No.

Then if we are to abstain from all appearances of evil, then God would also do the very same thing for why that extra is not of God at all.

You guys glory in yourselves for using tongues privately and you do not even see it for why God would never use His gifts of tongues in that way.

?

Have you not read Jude? Or what Paul said?
You have neither lot nor part in this matter for you are an unbeliever and deny God's word.

I have nothing more to say to you because you're entrenched in your denomination and the doctrine of whoever deceived you.

Where do you get this stuff? Not from the Bible. So sad for you!

So long!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Have you considered reading g the Bible for

?

Have you not read Jude? Or what Paul said?

Yes to both and thanks to Jesus, I apply all of His words in proving good and reproving the works of darkness as found in the world.

You have neither lot nor part in this matter for you are an unbeliever and deny God's word.

I am a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ but you are not lining up the scriptures with the whole of scripture for using tongues privately as gained by what many undiscerning believers do in believing every spirit coming over them apart from salvation as being the Holy Spirit. It is not as scripture does reprove.

I have nothing more to say to you because you're entrenched in your denomination and the doctrine of whoever deceived you.

I can accept that you have nothing more to say to me, but I do point out that you are contrary even in assigning me as an unbeliever and yet a christian from some other denomination. You do oppose yourself regarding tongues to be used privately, but you do not see it.

Where do you get this stuff? Not from the Bible. So sad for you!

So long!

I have quoted enough verses and given scriptural references to reprove tongues use privately as gained by that other spirit apart from salvation for which you address none of them, because you have nothing to say about those reproofs.

I accept that you do not have anything to say to me as I accept that you are not heeding His words to take pause about the tongue you are using and the spirit that fell over you apart from salvation, bringing that tongue which NEVER comes with interpretation.

 

[amadeus]

@JesusIsFaithful

I thought I was finished talking to you, but God says differently so here I am again. You certainly seem to love God, but you really don't, [as I see it] know as much as you think you do. The answer I found that works for me I believe would work for you and for anyone else. When I say it works for me I don't mean that I am always right. But when I am following His lead, I am. Sometimes I also quench the Spirit. When we stop doing that then we will not be wrong.

You can only prove all things and tests the spirits by His words. Not by "hey if it feels good, it must be God ". There are seducing spirits, you know.

I agree with you that we don't recognize that something is God simply because it "feels good".

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

This was prophesied to happen to believers and why believers are to test the spirits and not believe every one of them as falling on them as being the Holy Spirit. Scripture was given to testify that there is no receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation. Therefore the test is 1 John 4:4 is knowing Jesus Christ is in you as promised at the hearing of the gospel so that any spirit that comes over you after your salvation is NOT the Holy Spirit.

You have jumped beyond what was written with your conclusion.
What is it that John's audience have overcome?

"...every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist..."

Have we overcome all that needs to be overcome or are we still walking through the wilderness hopefully following the lead of the Holy Spirit?
Is not the one who has overcome all is no longer tempted to sin? Jesus was tempted to sin, but when he had overcome the last obstacle in his world, was then no longer in that little fleshly world of his?

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

Jesus had overcome the world, but at that point no other man had... Because he had overcome it He was no longer IN it:

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

Jesus had been in the same world of temptation that we are IN yet. Until we overcome all of it as He did, we remain in the battle and are not overcomers yet entitled to the benefits described in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 for overcomers.

You have to ponder that if tongues are for private use and beneficial, then why aren't all believers gifted in like fashion? Is God showing partiality? No.

Not private use for me alone, but rather to bring me to the point that I am able to do in my particular function to which God is leading as a part of the Body of Christ. We are not all the same part even though are to be a part of the whole Body of Christ when each part is ready and connected perfected to the Head [Jesus] and all of the other parts. You should not be telling others what their function is or how prepare themselves to work properly in that function. The directions for each and every part are to come from the Head by means of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit working in the Body of Christ in a fashion similar to how natural blood works in the physical body of a man.

We do not all have the same gifts because we are not all the same part:

"For the body is not one member, but many.

If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

And if they were all one member, where were the body?

But now are they many members, yet but one body.

And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:" I Cor 23:14-22

Then if we are to abstain from all appearances of evil, then God would also do the very same thing for why that extra is not of God at all.

You guys glory in yourselves for using tongues privately and you do not even see it for why God would never use His gifts of tongues in that way.

We are not glorying in ourselves because we speak in tongues. If we were self glorying at any time in any measure , then at that time and in that measure we would be wrong. But... if God is still working in us and we are allowing Him to do so, will He not get the job done right before our time is finished?

As to abstaining from the appearance of evil, it is certain that we should unnecessarily take on such an appearance, but unfortunately some still seeing as through a glass darkly will not always recognize a work that is being done by God and wrongly will take offense. If that is where you are then perhaps you need to talk to God about it.

We should not unnecessarily offend anyone, especially a brother in Christ, but no brother should be taking offense because of God's work in a person. Whose job is it to determine what God's work is to be in me or those other tongue talkers on this forum or in the work that He is doing in you? I would say it is determined by God alone!

You want to call our talking in tongues a "mote" in our eyes that needs to be removed by you, but how clear is your own vision with regard to us?

We are not the same as one another nor the same as you and we are not to be the same in spite of the many ways in which we are to be alike. We are not and are not to be the same part of the Body of Christ with the same function. We are not to be identical clones, but distinction parts which need to fit together properly:

"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." Eph 4:14-16

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

@JesusIsFaithful

I thought I was finished talking to you, but God says differently so here I am again.

It does seem that the Lord is leading us to continue somewhat in this discussion.

You certainly seem to love God, but you really don't, [as I see it] know as much as you think you do.

I know that it is easy to stray from the topic in attacking the person, so please let us stay on the topic. We prove by Him all things by the scripture, not by attacking the person.

The answer I found that works for me I believe would work for you and for anyone else. When I say it works for me I don't mean that I am always right. But when I am following His lead, I am. Sometimes I also quench the Spirit. When we stop doing that then we will not be wrong.

Do you at any time, test the spirits or do you ignore John's warning in 1 John 4:1 by just believing every spirit that comes over you is the Holy Spirit?

I agree with you that we don't recognize that something is God simply because it "feels good".

Point here is, the real indwelling Holy Spirit is pointing to the Son of God for us to go to in coming to God the Father; not to Himself. That is how we can discern the Holy Spirit from other spirits by where the spotlight is. Many believers have gone astray on that point when they allow the spirit of the antichrist ( meaning instead of Christ as in instead of the Son ) to take the spotlight from the Son to put Him in the limelight while they take the spotlight for signs and lying wonders.

You have jumped beyond what was written with your conclusion.
What is it that John's audience have overcome?

"...every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist..."

Have we overcome all that needs to be overcome or are we still walking through the wilderness hopefully following the lead of the Holy Spirit?
Is not the one who has overcome all is no longer tempted to sin? Jesus was tempted to sin, but when he had overcome the last obstacle in his world, was then no longer in that little fleshly world of his?

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

Jesus had overcome the world, but at that point no other man had... Because he had overcome it He was no longer IN it:

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

Jesus had been in the same world of temptation that we are IN yet. Until we overcome all of it as He did, we remain in the battle and are not overcomers yet entitled to the benefits described in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 for overcomers.


Not private use for me alone, but rather to bring me to the point that I am able to do in my particular function to which God is leading as a part of the Body of Christ. We are not all the same part even though are to be a part of the whole Body of Christ when each part is ready and connected perfected to the Head [Jesus] and all of the other parts. You should not be telling others what their function is or how prepare themselves to work properly in that function. The directions for each and every part are to come from the Head by means of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit working in the Body of Christ in a fashion similar to how natural blood works in the physical body of a man.

We do not all have the same gifts because we are not all the same part:

"For the body is not one member, but many.

If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

And if they were all one member, where were the body?

But now are they many members, yet but one body.

And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:" I Cor 23:14-22

We are not glorying in ourselves because we speak in tongues. If we were self glorying at any time in any measure , then at that time and in that measure we would be wrong. But... if God is still working in us and we are allowing Him to do so, will He not get the job done right before our time is finished?

As to abstaining from the appearance of evil, it is certain that we should unnecessarily take on such an appearance, but unfortunately some still seeing as through a glass darkly will not always recognize a work that is being done by God and wrongly will take offense. If that is where you are then perhaps you need to talk to God about it.

We should not unnecessarily offend anyone, especially a brother in Christ, but no brother should be taking offense because of God's work in a person. Whose job is it to determine what God's work is to be in me or those other tongue talkers on this forum or in the work that He is doing in you? I would say it is determined by God alone!

You want to call our talking in tongues a "mote" in our eyes that needs to be removed by you, but how clear is your own vision with regard to us?

We are not the same as one another nor the same as you and we are not to be the same in spite of the many ways in which we are to be alike. We are not and are not to be the same part of the Body of Christ with the same function. We are not to be identical clones, but distinction parts which need to fit together properly:

"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." Eph 4:14-16

When believers use tongues for private use, that is not towards the profit of the body withal for why the manifestations of the Spirit would come as per 1 Corinthians 12:7.

A church assumed they had both kinds of tongues' private and for the body, and so they hired a linguist to record and then translate the tongues during their worship service. That church really thought they had God's gift of tongues. BUT the linguist return with the report that they were all speaking gibberish; and not a foreign language of men. They spoke in tongues and interpreted the tongues, thinking they were operating the gifts Biblically, but they were not.

As people will fake tongues to fit in, so will people fake interpretation to fit in. They can even be genuine in believing that they are interpreting the tongue just as Joyce Meyers believed that she was, in how she interprets tongues and that is she gets the gist or the feeling of what is being spoken and she interprets it that way which is not Biblical at all.

So when you say you do both... BUT scripture says that the Holy Spirit CANNOT utter His own groanings let alone His own intercessions or even His own words in speaking unto the people as per John 16:13 in all Bibles, then I cannot accept that you actually have God's gift of tongues for believing you can using tongues privately also.

You are my brother, but I believe you are misled and no longer following after the traditions taught of us which has been prophesied as to how bad it will get in the latter days. I can only hope He is leading you to take pause and pray to Jesus at that throne of grace about this to help you see the error you are in per His words.

 

[Frank Lee]

Dear Amadeus we must shake off the dust of our feet to this unbeliever. He is defending his denominational doctrine. Not the Bible. You can discern this spirit of unbelief. They are cheating themselves and don't even know it. They refuse to subject themselves to the word of God.

Jude describes them.

Jude 1:18-20 KJVS
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. [19] These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. [20] But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

This person has HAVE FAITH on their name logo. How strange when they deny the very faith they urge you to get.

This person is a denominational church goer. They have been taught by another one that denies the baptism of the Holy Spirit and twists the words of God to suit their church traditions.

I'm sorry for them but do not frustrate yourself. Turn them over to God. Be of good cheer. God sees all. We try to share the things of God with the naysayers and that's all we can do. The results are in the Lord's hands

 

[Helen]

@JesusIsFaithful
You really do seem to have your little panties in a wad in your agenda against the Pentecostal believing Spirit filled Christian.
YOU started this attack..we were all politely answering @VictoryinJesus Opening Post!! ( you aren't the first, and you sure wont be the last in attacking the precious things of the Spirit)

In my previous posts here, I expressed how I hate discussions about the Holy Spirit and especially speaking in tongues. ( hardly going about misleading others) There are always people like you , small minded and one who so obviously has not "tasted and seen the God is good"
My guess is that you probably also attack the gifts ....those being "Word of Wisdom, Word of knowledge, Prophecy, Healing and Miracles, Faith, Tongues Interpretation of tongues and the Discerning of spirits.. For the building up of the body of Christ.
None of us were saying anything about anything...we were only responding to someones OP question...not pushing anything on anyone else of what we each believe.

Scripture is not leaving believers using tongues privately alone as gained by a receiving of a spirit apart from salvation, but God is using scripture in exposing that kind of supernatural tongue as not of God.

Says you!!! I am very sad for you. You sound like a very bitter and opinionated person in your postings.

You guys glory in yourselves for using tongues privately

We do???

1 Cor 12:1 "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant."
This actually , ....says it all.

If all you can do ..and if the only reason and purpose that you joined this Site, is to flood the threads and spew out your anti-Spirit-filled agenda.
Then that is up to you...you will answer to God, not to us.
I know what I know, and I have experienced what I have experienced, just like the others here.

..have a nice day.

 

[Helen]

I'm sorry for them but do not frustrate yourself. Turn them over to God. Be of good cheer. God sees all. We try to share the things of God with the naysayers and that's all we can do. The results are in the Lord's hands

Good word Frank..agree, not our problem...all the "anti's" are of no surprise to God........from the beginning.

 

[amadeus]

It does seem that the Lord is leading us to continue somewhat in this discussion.

Just so!

I know that it is easy to stray from the topic in attacking the person, so please let us stay on the topic. We prove by Him all things by the scripture, not by attacking the person.

Things are proved by the Word of God in us. Attacking a person because we disagree is wrong even if our point is otherwise correct. There is a time to remain silent.

Do you at any time, test the spirits or do you ignore John's warning in 1 John 4:1 by just believing every spirit that comes over you is the Holy Spirit?

Every day when I come before the Lord I go to the lowest room as if I had nothing as if a I knew nothing. This includes even no tongues.

"But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.

For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:10-11

Point here is, the real indwelling Holy Spirit is pointing to the Son of God for us to go to in coming to God the Father; not to Himself. That is how we can discern the Holy Spirit from other spirits by where the spotlight is. Many believers have gone astray on that point when they allow the spirit of the antichrist ( meaning instead of Christ as in instead of the Son ) to take the spotlight from the Son to put Him in the limelight while they take the spotlight for signs and lying wonders.

I know that there are false tongues as there are false doctrines which is why I always start from the bottom [lowest room] each day. God has over the years corrected me in many of my ways. We may think we can figure it all out for ourselves but we cannot. We may think that we have it all right, but until the last obstacle between us and God is removed, we do not.

" Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:5-6

Where I always try to come from is the heart rather than even my own believed doctrine. If our heart is right, we will please God even if our doctrine is wrong. If our doctrine is wrong and needs to be changed the heart that starts back at the lowest room will be changed by God. If the heart blocks God because we are too sure we are right and the other fellow is wrong, we will end up being wrong even if otherwise would be right. This is what charity is about, that is how we treat each even when we are disagreeing.

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." I Cor 13:1-3

The mysteries and the knowledge includes correct doctrine held without charity.

When believers use tongues for private use, that is not towards the profit of the body withal for why the manifestations of the Spirit would come as per 1 Corinthians 12:7.

A church assumed they had both kinds of tongues' private and for the body, and so they hired a linguist to record and then translate the tongues during their worship service. That church really thought they had God's gift of tongues. BUT the linguist return with the report that they were all speaking gibberish; and not a foreign language of men. They spoke in tongues and interpreted the tongues, thinking they were operating the gifts Biblically, but they were not.

If we lived by the ways of man and followed the ways of man rather than the ways of God then I would say let us look at this according my own ways. I also have studied linguistics in men's schools and without reading that report, I would still disagree with it sight unseen. But, I don't go that way. I go by faith and hope and charity. I go by the direction of the Holy Ghost leading me through the flesh of Jesus.

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23
That verse still applies even to the student of linguistics like myself when I seek to use that as an argument for or against God's Way.

I ask for His direction:

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" Psalm 119:5

And who then is the Director sent to us, but the Comforter, the Holy Ghost?

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

As people will fake tongues to fit in, so will people fake interpretation to fit in. They can even be genuine in believing that they are interpreting the tongue just as Joyce Meyers believed that she was, in how she interprets tongues and that is she gets the gist or the feeling of what is being spoken and she interprets it that way which is not Biblical at all.

It has been years since I followed any particular man or men. Each time that I have done so especially during my earlier year when I have returned to the "lowest room", God has moved me elsewhere.

The fake tongues exist, but so do the real ones from God. The real ones do have an interpreter as well... for me anyway. I cannot speak for all tongues talkers. The interpretation is that which God writes in our heart as opposed that which we only believe. Our faith may not change, but what we have faith in will definitely change if we are treading the right pathway with God in the right way and it needs to be changed. This includes beliefs.

For anyone who is not yet a complete overcomer as Jesus was/is there are both beliefs and knowledge included in his faith. He usually does not know which is which and this is where room remains for a person to grow closer to God.

So when you say you do both... BUT scripture says that the Holy Spirit CANNOT utter His own groanings let alone His own intercessions or even His own words in speaking unto the people as per John 16:13 in all Bibles, then I cannot accept that you actually have God's gift of tongues for believing you can using tongues privately also.

So then don't believe what I say, but don't expect me or anyone else to change because of your argument. Only God gives the increase to you or to me. He may or may not use you or me to give another person such an increase...

You are my brother, but I believe you are misled and no longer following after the traditions taught of us which has been prophesied as to how bad it will get in the latter days. I can only hope He is leading you to take pause and pray to Jesus at that throne of grace about this to help you see the error you are in per His words.

You are still too convinced that you are right for your own good. If you are right without charity it is still nothing.

Every day my friend I pray and every day I go down to that lowest room where there is nothing but me and God... no preconceived notions, no belief in anything but Him. I also pray for others so they will understand what is needed from them and from me to accomplish His Will.

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

 

[amadeus]

Dear Amadeus we must shake off the dust of our feet to this unbeliever. He is defending his denominational doctrine. Not the Bible. You can discern this spirit of unbelief. They are cheating themselves and don't even know it. They refuse to subject themselves to the word of God.

I am afraid that you are correct, but I always hope that a bit a Light will shine through the carefully built and almost impenetrable wall that prevents God from speaking to a man. Men's church institutions have programed the real Holy Ghost out of the ways of most of their members. It is the exceptions who are really hungry and thirsty that sometimes God will be able to reach through us, but most of them really do not want to consider anything more or anything different from that unchangeable ways. Help us all O Lord!

Jude describes them.

Jude 1:18-20 KJVS
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. [19] These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. [20] But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

This person has HAVE FAITH on their name logo. How strange when they deny the very faith they urge you to get.

This person is a denominational church goer. They have been taught by another one that denies the baptism of the Holy Spirit and twists the words of God to suit their church traditions.

I'm sorry for them but do not frustrate yourself. Turn them over to God. Be of good cheer. God sees all. We try to share the things of God with the naysayers and that's all we can do. The results are in the Lord's hands

Thank you for your kind and wise words, my friend. And "Jesus wept".

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

@JesusIsFaithful
You really do seem to have your little panties in a wad in your agenda against the Pentecostal believing Spirit filled Christian.
YOU started this attack..we were all politely answering @VictoryinJesus Opening Post!! ( you aren't the first, and you sure wont be the last in attacking the precious things of the Spirit)

The OP opened with:

This will be the hardest subject to approach. What is an unknown tongue? Where does this unknown language come from? Is it not God's language?

I am answering them. Did I attack her for asking? No. I addressed the topic and scripture was used for why I believe the way I do and why I believe my brothers and sisters are misled for believing oterwise.

In my previous posts here, I expressed how I hate discussions about the Holy Spirit and especially speaking in tongues. ( hardly going about misleading others) There are always people like you , small minded and one who so obviously has not "tasted and seen the God is good"
My guess is that you probably also attack the gifts ....those being "Word of Wisdom, Word of knowledge, Prophecy, Healing and Miracles, Faith, Tongues Interpretation of tongues and the Discerning of spirits.. For the building up of the body of Christ.
None of us were saying anything about anything...we were only responding to someones OP question...not pushing anything on anyone else of what we each believe.

I acknowledged that God's gift of tongues is of other men's lips to speak unto the people and that because of John 16:13, the Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues for uttering His own intercessions from which I explained that believers that use tongues privately, should pause and discern.

I accept that you do not want to, but what you are sharing in favor of tongues for private use is unBiblical and not of Him as His words says.

Says you!!! I am very sad for you. You sound like a very bitter and opinionated person in your postings.

Try to avoid judging the poster and just stick to the topic. I know it is hard, but do ask Him for help and try.

Discern the tongue and discern how that kind of tongue was gained by the scriptures; not those who speak against using tongues for private use.

We do???

1 Cor 12:1 "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant."
This actually , ....says it all.

If all you can do ..and if the only reason and purpose that you joined this Site, is to flood the threads and spew out your anti-Spirit-filled agenda.
Then that is up to you...you will answer to God, not to us.
I know what I know, and I have experienced what I have experienced, just like the others here.

..have a nice day.

Experiences are not to trump the scripture. That is no way to prove any thing By Him. All I can ask is you pray about this, normally, of course.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Just so!


Things are proved by the Word of God in us. Attacking a person because we disagree is wrong even if our point is otherwise correct. There is a time to remain silent.


Every day when I come before the Lord I go to the lowest room as if I had nothing as if a I knew nothing. This includes even no tongues.

"But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.

For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:10-11


I know that there are false tongues as there are false doctrines which is why I always start from the bottom [lowest room] each day. God has over the years corrected me in many of my ways. We may think we can figure it all out for ourselves but we cannot. We may think that we have it all right, but until the last obstacle between us and God is removed, we do not.

" Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:5-6

Where I always try to come from is the heart rather than even my own believed doctrine. If our heart is right, we will please God even if our doctrine is wrong. If our doctrine is wrong and needs to be changed the heart that starts back at the lowest room will be changed by God. If the heart blocks God because we are too sure we are right and the other fellow is wrong, we will end up being wrong even if otherwise would be right. This is what charity is about, that is how we treat each even when we are disagreeing.

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." I Cor 13:1-3

The mysteries and the knowledge includes correct doctrine held without charity.


If we lived by the ways of man and followed the ways of man rather than the ways of God then I would say let us look at this according my own ways. I also have studied linguistics in men's schools and without reading that report, I would still disagree with it sight unseen. But, I don't go that way. I go by faith and hope and charity. I go by the direction of the Holy Ghost leading me through the flesh of Jesus.

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23
That verse still applies even to the student of linguistics like myself when I seek to use that as an argument for or against God's Way.

I ask for His direction:

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" Psalm 119:5

And who then is the Director sent to us, but the Comforter, the Holy Ghost?

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26


It has been years since I followed any particular man or men. Each time that I have done so especially during my earlier year when I have returned to the "lowest room", God has moved me elsewhere.

The fake tongues exist, but so do the real ones from God. The real ones do have an interpreter as well... for me anyway. I cannot speak for all tongues talkers. The interpretation is that which God writes in our heart as opposed that which we only believe. Our faith may not change, but what we have faith in will definitely change if we are treading the right pathway with God in the right way and it needs to be changed. This includes beliefs.

For anyone who is not yet a complete overcomer as Jesus was/is there are both beliefs and knowledge included in his faith. He usually does not know which is which and this is where room remains for a person to grow closer to God.



So then don't believe what I say, but don't expect me or anyone else to change because of your argument. Only God gives the increase to you or to me. He may or may not use you or me to give another person such an increase...


You are still too convinced that you are right for your own good. If you are right without charity it is still nothing.

Every day my friend I pray and every day I go down to that lowest room where there is nothing but me and God... no preconceived notions, no belief in anything but Him. I also pray for others so they will understand what is needed from them and from me to accomplish His Will.

Brother, I believe Paul was speaking in hyperbole in 1 Corinthians 13th chapter since obviously in one example of that hyperbole, he has not given his body to be burned.

1 Corinthians 14:21 testify of the prophesy for what God's gift of tongues were for as it is of other men's lips to speak unto the people. That is it.

John 16:13 testify that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself in uttering His own intercessions. That is the truth as found lined up in Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV when not even the groanings of the Holy Spirit can be uttered.

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

That was fulfilled for all believers when they had come to & believed in Jesus Christ as promised in John 6:35. No more filling to be sought.

 

[amadeus]

@JesusIsFaithful

On each point you have an answer, as if all the answers were set in concrete according to the interpretations that you follow. I do have an answer for every answer that you have provided, but I won't bother to detail an answer for you because you have decided that you are right and I am wrong an don't really want to even admit the possibility that you are in error. What is the point of further discussion? For each place the scripture indicates that might be are in error, you have applied a meaning that changes what it says to what you have wanted it to say or to what you have believed or been taught by men that it is saying.

No recourse to God. This is what Jewish leadership [Scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, etc.] had done with the words that God wrote down for them through Moses.

For Matthew 5:6 you say it is all done already and there is nothing more, but that is not what I see written in scripture... We disagree and many believers disagree because they interpret the Bible differently. Only through the Holy Ghost can a man receive correction, but if there is disagreement about what the Holy will or will not do, then we have what we have thousands of denominations based on what is written, yet in disagreement with each other.

Help us dear Lord!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

@JesusIsFaithful

On each point you have an answer, as if all the answers were set in concrete according to the interpretations that you follow. I do have an answer for every answer that you have provided, but I won't bother to detail an answer for you because you have decided that you are right and I am wrong an don't really want to even admit the possibility that you are in error. What is the point of further discussion? For each place the scripture indicates that might be are in error, you have applied a meaning that changes what it says to what you have wanted it to say or to what you have believed or been taught by men that it is saying.

No recourse to God. This is what Jewish leadership [Scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, etc.] had done with the words that God wrote down for them through Moses.

For Matthew 5:6 you say it is all done already and there is nothing more, but that is not what I see written in scripture... We disagree and many believers disagree because they interpret the Bible differently. Only through the Holy Ghost can a man receive correction, but if there is disagreement about what the Holy will or will not do, then we have what we have thousands of denominations based on what is written, yet in disagreement with each other.

Help us dear Lord!

Here is scriptural reference of an unknow supernatural tongue in use before Pentecost that believers can find today in the occult.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

So when I read this prophesy that is to befallen believers in the latter days...

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Do I not have just cause to be concern for those who believe tongues can be used for private use?

And worse, they think they can receive the Holy Spirit again and again and again after salvation? Why do you think Paul was reminding believers when they had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel in 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter? Because the iniquity was already at work in paul's days as many were believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation after a sensational sign in the flesh, including tongues which happens to come without interpretation as found even in the occult.

AND there is a consequence for those that speak the utter depths of Satan.

Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

But as you say and I agree, only the Lord can help those astray to see the truth in His words to lead them to repentance. I am definitely helpless to convince any one of the truth in His words, but He is not.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Passage from Dr. John R. Rice's book, The Charismatic Movement in linking to Isaiah 8:19 above.

IN SPIRITISM.--Tongues speaking occurs among anti-Christian spiritistic mediums. Contrary to popular belief among tongues speakers, a few years ago the European Pentecostal Conference admitted that "tongues might occur apart from the Spirit's action" (Brown, p.151)
Today shamans (witch doctors, priests, or medicine men) in Haiti, Greenland, Micronesia, and countries of Africa, Australia, Asia, and North and South America speak in tongues. Several groups use drugs to aid in inducing the ecstatic state and utterances. Voodoo practitioners speak in tongues. Buddhist and Shinto priest have been heard speaking in tongues. Moslems have spoken in tongues, and an ancient tradition even reports that Mohammed himself spoke in tongues. According to his own account, after his ecstatic experiences he found it difficult to return to "logical and intelligible speech" (Kelsey, p. 143).

So there is evidence that there is a supernatural tongue had been in world's religions today like Islam.

There is also evidence that in some idolatrous practices, they had interpreters for those tongues, but I believe they were faking the interpretation since it was never a language of men.

N NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS.--Tongues occupied a significant place in ancient Greek religion. The seeress at Delphi, not far from Corinth, spoke in tongues. According to Plutarch (A.D. 44-117), interpreters were kept in attendance to explain her incoherent utterances. Many scholars have stated that tongues were experienced in the mystery religions (Osirius, Mithra, Eleusinian, Dionsyian, and Orphic cults). Some have concluded that the unintelligible lists of "words" in the "magical papyri" and in certain Gnostic "prayers" are records of ecstatic utterances. About A.D. 180 Celsus reported ecstatic utterances among the Gnostics. Lucian of Samosata (A.D. 120-198) described tongues speaking as it was practiced by the devotees of the Syrian goddess, Juno.

Paul touched on this before getting into the gifts of the Spirit although not really addressing that supernatural tongue.

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

So we know that there was a supernatural tongue in the world before Pentecost that was just vain & profane babbling nonsense, and that it existed back in Paul's days and still does today.

That is why the apostle John wrote for believers to not believe every spirit but test them 1 John 4:1-6 to avoid speaking as the world speaks in supernatural tongues as we are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.