Analysis of 1 Timothy 4:1 and how it disproves the OSAS doctrine

[Dave24]

Just a few other scriptures that prove the osas doctrine false.

1) Jude 5
2) Mat 24:13
3) Phil 2:12
4) Heb 10:26,27
5) Heb 6:4-6
6) Heb 5:9
7) James 2:14,26
8) Heb 3:12-14
1 Corinthians 10:12

 

[Dave24]

Also there is a more accurate explanation for the parable of the wheat...
Satan was expelled from heaven, not defeated yet!

1 Peter 5:8

 

[ATP]

Just a few other scriptures that prove the osas doctrine false.

1) Jude 5
2) Mat 24:13
3) Phil 2:12
4) Heb 10:26,27
5) Heb 6:4-6
6) Heb 5:9
7) James 2:14,26
8) Heb 3:12-14
1 Corinthians 10:12

(2) They are being saved from end time war. It has nothing to do with personal salvation. Notice agape love in Matt 24:12 and Rom 8:35, 38-39.

(3) God clearly states that we no longer have the spirit of fear Rom 8:15 ESV, 2 Tim 1:7 ESV, Heb 2:14-15 ESV, 1 John 4:18 ESV.

(4) Heb 10:26-27...

26 - If we deliberately keep on sinning - This refers to nonbelievers, not believers. Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 John 3:6 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 1 John 5:18 NIV.

26 - the knowledge of the truth - Nonbelievers are known to have the knowledge of God, the knowledge of truth, or knowing God but not accepting His salvation Rom 1:18 NIV, Rom 1:25 NIV, Rom 1:28 NIV, 1 Tim 6:20 NIV, 2 Tim 3:6-9 NIV, 2 Pet 2:20 NIV

26 - no sacrifice for sins is left - For starters, how can there be no sacrifice for sins left when Jesus sacrificed it all and paid the penalty for ALL sin, past, present and future Isa 53:4-6 NIV, Isa 53:10 NIV, John 1:29 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 10:12 NIV, 1 John 2:12 NIV, Rev 1:4-5 NIV. We can see the author confirming that Jesus is in fact greater than Moses in Heb 3:5-6 NIV, Heb 7:11-14 NIV, Heb 9:19-23 NIV. Also, in the Mosaic Covenant the Jews would sacrifice animals on the alter as a blood covenant for the forgiveness of sins. Moses in his covenant took from the offerings half of the blood and put it in bowls and the other half he sprinkled on the altar. He read to the people the book of the covenant and once again they all responded, "All that the LORD has said we will do" (Ex.24:7). Hearing once more their pledge of obedience to the Lord, Moses sprinkled the people with the blood, saying, ‘"This is the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you according to all these words"’ (Ex.24:8). This was a very solemn moment in their national history, for with this sprinkling of the blood and their promise to be obedient, the covenant was ratified and they were sanctified as the people of God (Heb.9:19,20; Heb.10:29). As His people, they would be governed by Him according to the commandments and statutes that He had given to them.

27 - but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. - This entire passage literally describes the wrath of God, but scripture says believers are not appointed to wrath Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Rev 3:10 NIV. Scripture also states that believers are no longer enemies of God, rather we are His children Nahum 1:2 NIV, Rom 5:10 NIV, Rom 8:31 NIV, Rom 11:28 NIV, Col 1:21-22 NIV

(5) Why did you skip Heb 6:7-8 NIV? These people never had the root of salvation. Also notice repentance that leads to death in Heb 6:1 NIV.

(6) Heb 9:12 NLT, 1 John 3:9 NIV

(7) I agree, faith without works is dead. It is simply stating a fact about works.

(8) What does "enter my rest" mean here, and how do we enter it?...

Rom 11:20 NIV Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Rom 11:23 NIV And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Heb 3:16-19 NIV Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Heb 4:3 ESV For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest,’” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.

(9) This has nothing to do with salvation, it has to do with temptation. Also read 1 Cor 10:13 NIV.

- ATP

 

[rockytopva]

How about Ezekiel 33?

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live. - Ezekiel 33

If a saved man turns from his righteousness, his salvation will not be remembered.
If a wicked man turns from his wickedness and gets saved, his wickedness will not be remembered.

 

[ATP]

How about Ezekiel 33?

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live. - Ezekiel 33

If a saved man turns from his righteousness, his salvation will not be remembered.
If a wicked man turns from his wickedness and gets saved, his wickedness will not be remembered.

This has nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with the penalty of sin because sin is death. Ezek 18:24 NIV, James 1:13-15 NIV.

 

[rockytopva]

18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. - Ezekiel 33

Turn from your righteousness.... Commit iniquity... Die in your sins... All your past righteousness and good works, including your salvation, will be forgotten.

 

[rockytopva]

18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. - Ezekiel 33

Turn from your righteousness.... Commit iniquity... Die in your sins... All your past righteousness and good works, including your salvation, will be forgotten.

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3:5

 

[ATP]

18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. - Ezekiel 33

Turn from your righteousness.... Commit iniquity... Die in your sins... All your past righteousness and good works, including your salvation, will be forgotten.

It's not referring to salvation. It's referring to the consequences of sin. The agape love of God will never be separated from us, ever Rom 8:35, 38-39.

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3:5

You must believe to overcome rocky. What are we believing in?

1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[Dave24]

No use arguing with these guys, Jesus could stand before them and tell them they are wrong...but i am afraid they will argue with Him too. I am out!!

 

[Barrd]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Dave.

 

[ATP]

No use arguing with these guys, Jesus could stand before them and tell them they are wrong...but i am afraid they will argue with Him too. I am out!!

What is the day of redemption..Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

And since the lake of fire is considered the second death Rev 20:14 NIV, and neither death nor life can separate the elect from God Rom 8:38 NIV, then wouldn't that make God a liar?

Shalom, - ATP

 

[mjrhealth]

Far easier for the devil to convince man God cant save him , than for God who created all things to convice man He can.


In al lHis love

 

[Jun2u]

Also there is a more accurate explanation for the parable of the wheat...
Satan was expelled from heaven, not defeated yet!

1 Peter 5:8

You do err not knowing the scriptures!

What part of the parable of the Wheat and Tares is Satan seen as being expelled from heaven? I can't see a more accurate explanation in the parable than to what I've already alluded to above.

Matthew 12:28-29 reads:

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Jesus bound Satan before the foundation of the world! The cross was only a demonstration. The proof is that Jesus is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world Revelation 13:8.

Hebrews 4:3

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Jesus' work of the Atonement was finished before the foundation of the world!!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Barrd]

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

The Spirit speaketh expressly....

And yet we seem to have people who know better than the Holy Spirit.

Why in the world would the Spirit talk about people whose faith was not "real faith" departing from their faith?

From the Strong's:
faith
G4102 (Strong)

πίστις

pistis

pis'-tis

From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Total KJV occurrences: 244

The term translated "faith" means just that. Faith.

depart:
G868 (Strong)

ἀφίστημι

aphistēmi

af-is'-tay-mee

From G575 and G2476; to remove, that is, (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: - depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

Total KJV occurrences: 15

The term translated "depart" means just that. Depart.


Like it or not, the Spirit is talking about saving faith, and says that some will depart from it.
I know this is difficult for OSASers, however, there it is. The verse is there, it says what it says, and it isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Perhaps we need to quit lolling about, depending on our "eternal security" and get to work....working out our salvation with fear and trembling...

 

[mjrhealth]

The term translated "faith" means just that. Faith.

Yes Bard it means just that,

1Co_1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Why do you insist on putting a stumbling block before those who are saved and walk in faith???

Dont you believe you are saved, did Christ die for nothing??

In all His Love

 

[iakov]

Some shall depart from the faith, not saving faith.."departed" in 1 Tim 4:1-2 NIV is translated "aphistémi" which means to lead away, to depart from. Also notice in Luke 8:13 NIV the same word "aphistémi" is used for the term "fall away". Why did they fall away? Because they had no root of salvation...

Luke 8:13 NIV Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Also notice it's mentioning two different people here, those who forbid people to etc...and those who believe and who know the truth.

1 Tim 4:1-3 NIV The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

- ATP

<<Some shall depart from the faith, not saving faith.>>

That is a total red herring. It is a contrivance of smoke and mirrors to evade what is clearly being stated. There is only "THE faith."

<<1 Tim 4:1 NIV The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith...>>

Again, its "THE" faith.

You are using the straw man logical fallacy. Your argument fails.

 

[ATP]

<<Some shall depart from the faith, not saving faith.>>

That is a total red herring. It is a contrivance of smoke and mirrors to evade what is clearly being stated. There is only "THE faith."

<<1 Tim 4:1 NIV The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith...>>

Again, its "THE" faith.

You are using the straw man logical fallacy. Your argument fails.

No not really. Otherwise God is in contradiction and a liar. Eternal life comes by believing.....

1 John 5:9-14 NIV / Psa 21:4 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[ATP]

"Departed" in 1 Tim 4:1-2 NIV is translated "aphistémi" which means to lead away, to depart from.

Notice in Luke 8:13 NIV the same word "aphistémi" is used for the term "fall away". Why did they fall away? Because they had no root of salvation. Some shall depart from the faith, not saving faith. Luke 8:13 NIV says, "they believe for a while"...

Luke 8:13 NIV Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they (aphistémi) fall away.

Also notice it's mentioning two different people here, those who forbid people to marry etc...and those who believe and who know the truth. Those who believe and know the truth are sealed until redemption. If not, God would again be in contradiction..Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV...

1 Tim 4:1-3 NIV The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

Lastly, doctrines of demons describes the antichrist spirit...

1 Tim 4:1 NIV The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Eph 2:1-3 NIV As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

1 John 4:3 NIV but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

- ATP