And who is part of or is to be a part of the Body of Christ?

[Nancy]

Oh...haha! I was talking about Nancy Pelosi when she said of the Obama care bill, well lets just pass it so we can see what's in it!

So it sounded to me like when people say, we'll just lose some rewards, but no one seems to know what those mysterious rewards we could lose are.

Oh lolol. You said hmmm....MY name's Nancy...

Hahaha! Yes, I believe it was Marks maybe ? - who explained it to me

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes indeed, it is very strong language!
"But I guess I don't see any of these as resulting in some judgmental destruction of the redeemed. I'm not sure where people divide the body of Christ into different levels, or multiple destinies, or anything like that, as it's not something I've seen in Scripture, and I've not really heard details of what people might think about this."

I too am not sure at all about the differing "levels" and do not find anything scriptural pertaining to it. To me it causes much confusion, and can lead to questioning our faith.
In Him,
nancy

Is questioning our trust a bad thing? We are told to examine whether we really ARE in trust (faith.)

 

[farouk]

Come on Byrd you know you have to be born again

John 3 is indeed clear.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Okay, it was chapter 22. Verses 18 and 26

22:18. Son of man, the people of Israel are the worthless slag that remains after silver is smelted. They are the dross that is left over—a useless mixture of copper, tin, iron, and lead.

22:26 Your priests have violated my instructions and defiled my holy things. They make no distinction between what is holy and what is not. And they do not teach my people the difference between what is ceremonially clean and unclean.

The first verse tells what a useless mixture Gods people have become. The next verse blames the priests - teachers and leaders. They make no distinction between what is holy and what is not holy. And between what is clean and what is filthy.

And what I see is that, for the most part, we could overlay ourselves and not even be able to tell the difference between what Israel was in these verses and what we are currently. A useless mixture of the teachings of men and with teachers who don't make any distinction between what is holy and what isn't.

As for the other verses I was wondering about, I found them in Haggai 2, but they still don't make much sense to me. Although I did see that to touch a dead body defiled the sacrifice a priest was carrying in his robes and it seemed to fit together with: come out of her my people, do not share in her sins. But I might be the only one who sees a connection, I don't know.

And in thinking further, it has been true in my own experience of what I heard said over and over again in forums - you are in Christ so it is impossible that you sin! And I would answer, but I DO sin. I plainly see that I murder others over and over again, so you are saying something wrong, and I don't know what it is but I have the Holy Spirit and I darn well know that I do, but I keep resentfully murdering!

And so they were trying to teach me there is no distinction between what is holy and what is unholy.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And in thinking further, it has been true in my own experience of what I heard said over and over again in forums - you are in Christ so it is impossible that you sin! And I would answer, but I DO sin. I plainly see that I murder others over and over again, so you are saying something wrong, and I don't know what it is but I have the Holy Spirit and I darn well know that I do, but I keep resentfully murdering!

And so they were trying to teach me there is no distinction between what is holy and what is unholy.

And further, aren't we the priests in Haggai, carrying a holy sacrifice in and on our robes? So we see that if we touch or brush against a dead body/church, we can become defiled by that dead body b y swallowing the pestilence that surrounds a dead body.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

To others, show mercy, mixed with fear, hating the garment stained with corrupted flesh.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

In fact, not only are we taught to not make a distinction between what is holy and what is not, we are taught to not make a distinction between even what is righteous and what is unrighteous.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So if we are being made a kingdom and priests to God, as John says, then Haggai applies to us, I think...

 

[Episkopos]

So if we are being made a kingdom and priests to God, as John says, then Haggai applies to us, I think...

Yes. We take on the role of God's people as we are given both the calling and the grace to do so. But let every person take heed to HOW he/she goes about it. If God didn't spare the natural branches....

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes. We take on the role of God's people as we are given both the calling and the grace to do so. But let every person take heed to HOW he/she goes about it. If God didn't spare the natural branches....

Take heed to how, yes. Look at what has happened to priests and those who attended to the things of God in the past. Its frightful, honestly. To put out a hand to steady the ark when you thought it was getting ready to tip over got 2 men killed! To lie to a man of God in the NT got a man and woman killed. Not that lying to a man is worthy of death so much, but lying to the Holy Spirit that man walked with and in.

Its truly frightful. And it should be. We are talking about a holy God.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And to think about Moses is frightful. I think maybe he had a moment of confused doubt or maybe a little panic, and thought he should hit the rock again since the water did not immediately flow. And he didn't get to enter the promised land.

I've even wondered if I caught a sleight bit of...self grandiosity or grandstanding in his speech about, do I have to hit this rock and make water come out before you will believe...

And that was a very humble man! If that could happen to HIM...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And I know I've said this before recently, but some of the people who saw what happened to Ananias and Saphira, it says they deeply respected the men but refused to join with them. And I in turn deeply respect THOSE men, because they were wise. You can imagine they thought, no, no way, if even telling a lie can get me death, I won't join with them. Ill just listen from back here, thank you.

 

[Nancy]

And to think about Moses is frightful. I think maybe he had a moment of confused doubt or maybe a little panic, and thought he should hit the rock again since the water did not immediately flow. And he didn't get to enter the promised land.

I've even wondered if I caught a sleight bit of...self grandiosity or grandstanding in his speech about, do I have to hit this rock and make water come out before you will believe...

And that was a very humble man! If that could happen to HIM...

Yes, see how the fear of The Lord is for our good Keeps us on our toes, so to speak!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh...the sweetest old gal, who I have talked with quite a few times about God just brought me a plastic bottle of anointing oil in and said I should take a bath in some of it, put some around my shop and pray the blood of Jesus in this place. She said she refuses to even leave her house before She puts some of it on her as her armor. She said it's holy anointing oil. I asked what made it holy and she said the apostle prayed over it. I asked who the apostle was and it turns out that's what they call their preacher.

I didn't know what to say and it didn't appear I should say anything at that time, so I just said thank you...

 

[Nancy]

Oh...the sweetest old gal, who I have talked with quite a few times about God just brought me a plastic bottle of anointing oil in and said I should take a bath in some of it, put some around my shop and pray the blood of Jesus in this place. She said she refuses to even leave her house before She puts some of it on her as her armor. She said it's holy anointing oil. I asked what made it holy and she said the apostle prayed over it. I asked who the apostle was and it turns out that's what they call their preacher.

I didn't know what to say and it didn't appear I should say anything at that time, so I just said thank you...

Lol...good thinking, smile and say thank you...then pray!
Too much ritual...

 

[amadeus]

And to think about Moses is frightful. I think maybe he had a moment of confused doubt or maybe a little panic, and thought he should hit the rock again since the water did not immediately flow. And he didn't get to enter the promised land.

I've even wondered if I caught a sleight bit of...self grandiosity or grandstanding in his speech about, do I have to hit this rock and make water come out before you will believe...

And that was a very humble man! If that could happen to HIM...

"(Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth" Num 12:3

Earlier Moses had been told to smite the rock, but when he messed up, he had been specifically told to "speak to the Rock":

"Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel." Ex 17:6

"Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink." Num 20:8

The difference is probably in our understanding of who the Rock was. Should we smite the Shepherd when that part of the prophecy has already been fulfilled?

"Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones." Zech 13:7

They did smite the Shepherd, did they not in Jerusalem at 33½ years of age?

Hannah:
"There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God." I Sam 2:2

David:
"And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;" II Sam 2:2

"Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.
But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak." Jerem 1:6-7

No more smiting Him or crucifying Christ again!

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." Heb 6:4-6

 

[Enoch111]

Should we smite the Shepherd when that part of the prophecy has already been fulfilled?

It is God the Father who smote the Shepherd Christ. He was "smitten of God and afflicted" (Isa 53:4). Therefore no man may smite the Shepherd. Men nailed Him to the cross, but the Father "put Him to grief".

But Christ the Rock divides men very effectively. To those who believe on Him, He is the Rock of our salvation. To those who disbelieve, He is a Rock of offence and a Stone of Stumbling.

 

[Episkopos]

but the Father "put Him to grief".

This is as false as can be. It's no wonder you react so strongly to the truth. You are WAY out there...accusing God of of doing what evil men did.

Apply all your censures to yourself. That would be the beginning of some discernment for you.

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye (the Jews) have taken, and by wicked hands (the Romans) have crucified and slain:

If the Slaying of Jesus was from God...then why would these be called wicked?
God allows evil in the world...but it isn't God DOING the evil.

 

[amadeus]

This is as false as can be. It's no wonder you react so strongly to the truth. You are WAY out there...accusing God of of doing what evil men did.

Apply all your censures to yourself. That would be the beginning of some discernment for you.

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye (the Jews) have taken, and by wicked hands (the Romans) have crucified and slain:

If the Slaying of Jesus was from God...then why would these be called wicked?
God allows evil in the world...but it isn't God DOING the evil.

I see your explanation and agree with what I understand, but can you clarify the difference, if there is any, between the verse you cited [Acts 2:23] and the left hand of God?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What do you mean when you say the left hand of God?