Another Premillennial absurdity

[Randy Kluth]

What a complete and utter turn-around!!! What a bust! What a failure! From these religious charlatans feigning submission to Christ and the glorified saints for 1000 years to them instantly and wholesale embracing Satan and his wickedness in their billions as the sand of the sea at his simple appearance. Your whole portrayal is ridiculous! Thankfully, it is never going to happen.

You need to clam down or take a tranquilizer! This is what a *lot* of people believe, and they have a rationale for it--just not yours. It may be ridiculous to you, and yet, if you were on the other side, pursuing a rationale, I bet you could come up with it? A good debater can debate any side of any argument!

 

[WPM]

You need to clam down or take a tranquilizer! This is what a *lot* of people believe, and they have a rationale for it--just not yours. It may be ridiculous to you, and yet, if you were on the other side, pursuing a rationale, I bet you could come up with it? A good debater can debate any side of any argument!

Facts are stubborn things. This is what you believe and promote.

I am just exposing the absurdity of Premil. It doesn't matter what angle you look at, it doesn't add up. It enjoys zero corroboration elsewhere in Scripture. It is fanciful. Premils cannot answer simple answers straight because it would force them to admit the truth and potency of the counter-argument.

 

[Marilyn C]

Facts are stubborn things. This is what you believe and promote.

I am just exposing the absurdity of Premil. It doesn't matter what angle you look at, it doesn't add up. It enjoys zero corroboration elsewhere in Scripture. It is fanciful. Premils cannot answer simple answers straight because it would force them to admit the truth and potency of the counter-argument.

Hi WPM,

As I said earlier, I also agree with you, yet I am a premillennialist. Now, there are many who don`t believe we come back to earth. I was taught the truth and that is from a whole denomination that preached that truth. So, maybe say, "Some premillennialists wrongly believe...."

Marilyn.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Facts are stubborn things. This is what you believe and promote.

I am just exposing the absurdity of Premil. It doesn't matter what angle you look at, it doesn't add up. It enjoys zero corroboration elsewhere in Scripture. It is fanciful. Premils cannot answer simple answers straight because it would force them to admit the truth and potency of the counter-argument.

None of what you said was a fact. The fact is this is exactly what the Apostle John wrote--I quoted it! Yes, facts are stubborn things--this is exactly what Rev 20 said!

You may have a problem understanding how the world can have a thousand years of peace, and then suddenly, with the release of Satan form a global coalition against Christianity? I have no problem seeing that.

I've seen Christian countries go from passing moral laws in one generation to passing immoral laws in the very next generation--it doesn't take long. Sin, unrestrained, spreads like leaven. But when a force the strength of Christ rules for a thousand years, nations respect power, and act accordingly.

Let's compare this to a criminal who is being monitored continuously. He maintains a lawful behavior. But the moment there is nobody watching him, his criminal ways can spring into action.

That's how it will be in the time Satan is released. There will be many who have lived under the rule of Christianity, and behaved accordingly. But when that rule is threatened by the release of Satan, those who had only submitted under threat of punishment can suddenly rise and form a global consensus that freedom from Christian rule is desirable for them.

Stating that this is impossible is a ruse on your part. And I want nothing of it. Of course this is possible--the Bible says it!

 

[WPM]

None of what you said was a fact. The fact is this is exactly what the Apostle John wrote--I quoted it! Yes, facts are stubborn things--this is exactly what Rev 20 said!

You may have a problem understanding how the world can have a thousand years of peace, and then suddenly, with the release of Satan form a global coalition against Christianity? I have no problem seeing that.

I've seen Christian countries go from passing moral laws in one generation to passing immoral laws in the very next generation--it doesn't take long. Sin, unrestrained, spreads like leaven. But when a force the strength of Christ rules for a thousand years, nations respect power, and act accordingly.

Let's compare this to a criminal who is being monitored continuously. He maintains a lawful behavior. But the moment there is nobody watching him, his criminal ways can spring into action.

That's how it will be in the time Satan is released. There will be many who have lived under the rule of Christianity, and behaved accordingly. But when that rule is threatened by the release of Satan, those who had only submitted under threat of punishment can suddenly rise and form a global consensus that freedom from Christian rule is desirable for them.

Stating that this is impossible is a ruse on your part. And I want nothing of it. Of course this is possible--the Bible says it!

The whole thing is fanciful. It is a fairy tale. It will never happen. Keep taking the pills. LOL.

 

[WPM]

Let's compare this to a criminal who is being monitored continuously. He maintains a lawful behavior. But the moment there is nobody watching him, his criminal ways can spring into action.

That's how it will be in the time Satan is released. There will be many who have lived under the rule of Christianity, and behaved accordingly. But when that rule is threatened by the release of Satan, those who had only submitted under threat of punishment can suddenly rise and form a global consensus that freedom from Christian rule is desirable for them.

Stating that this is impossible is a ruse on your part. And I want nothing of it. Of course this is possible--the Bible says it!

Deception is rampant in the Premil millennium because there are countless people that reject Christ in their heart and are forced to give feigned worship in Jerusalem to Christ or they will be swiped with His rod of iron? The Premil millennium is a sham.

 

[WPM]

Hi WPM,

As I said earlier, I also agree with you, yet I am a premillennialist. Now, there are many who don`t believe we come back to earth. I was taught the truth and that is from a whole denomination that preached that truth. So, maybe say, "Some premillennialists wrongly believe...."

Marilyn.

So, in your Premillennialism, who are the saints on earth who are surrounded 1000 years after the second coming?

 

[GEN2REV]

One of the main problems Premillennialism has is that it has a glorified Jesus bringing back all the redeemed of all the ages that have enjoyed perfect communion with Christ in His majestic heavenly presence since the time He defeated sin and death 2000 years ago, giving them new eternal incorruptible bodies at His second coming, along with the living in Christ, rewarding them with eternal bliss, and then bringing them back to a corruptible millennial earth filled with degenerates, death, decay and depravity, just like our present day. It is just another re-run of our current evil age.

Premillennialism has saints that have been delivered from a sinful world thousands of years ago being forced to come back to watch the folly of the rebuilding of a new temple, the debacle of futile animal sacrifices, the restoration of the old covenant priesthood, continued sin, death and decay. Finally, the saints will have to engage in literal physical spiritual warfare in their glorified bodies with Satan and his global mortal army – Gog and Magog. They will be confronted with the awful sight of Satan being released from his prison to mobilize a global assault upon Jesus and the glorified saints in earthly Jerusalem. This army will consist of all the millennial mortals that have feigned worship to the Lord Jesus Christ for a thousand years turning in their billions at the drop of a hat from following Jesus to following Satan as the sand of the sea.

This whole portrayal is ridiculous and nonsensical, and will never happen.

It is absolutely ridiculous.

And I can say, with God as my Witness, that from the very first time I ever heard of it, or heard a pastor speak of it, before I knew much of anything about the Bible, I knew for certain inside of me that something was very wrong with it.

"Whaaaaat???" I said.

All that talk about enduring and running the race and overcoming this world, etc. and then we have to do whaaaat???

Absolute nonsense. And very easy to prove in my opinion.

All it takes is a basic understanding of Scripture, but sadly, the vast majority of Christians are bankrupt in that regard.

Hosea 4:6
2 Thessalonians 2:10

 

[Marilyn C]

So, in your Premillennialism, who are the saints on earth who are surrounded 1000 years after the second coming?

The word `saints` is used various times in God`s word for different groups of people. The `saints` in the millennium are those who have turned to God in the millennium and are alive at the time Satan has his final deception. They are NOT in the Body of Christ group that has long gone to its eternal inheritance in the third heaven.

 

[WPM]

It is absolutely ridiculous.

And I can say, with God as my Witness, that from the very first time I ever heard of it, or heard a pastor speak of it, before I knew much of anything about the Bible, I knew for certain inside of me that something was very wrong with it.

"Whaaaaat???" I said.

All that talk about enduring and running the race and overcoming this world, etc. and then we have to do whaaaat???

Absolute nonsense. And very easy to prove in my opinion.

All it takes is a basic understanding of Scripture, but sadly, the vast majority of Christians are bankrupt in that regard.

Hosea 4:6
2 Thessalonians 2:10

Me to! My pastor tried to cover it up as if you needed a special revelation to understand it. He tried to conceal it when he was teaching on the subject of the millennium. It was the dirty family secret no one wanted to talk about. On forums like this, they have to, even though they are mega uncomfortable. But they have nothing to say in response.

 

[WPM]

The word `saints` is used various times in God`s word for different groups of people. The `saints` in the millennium are those who have turned to God in the millennium and are alive at the time Satan has his final deception. They are NOT in the Body of Christ group that has long gone to its eternal inheritance in the third heaven.

So who are all these mortals and what qualifies them to inherit the age to come?

 

[GEN2REV]

I am a premillennialist. Now, there are many who don`t believe we come back to earth. I was taught the truth and that is from a whole denomination that preached that truth.

There is no earth to come back to, though.

Look at 2 Peter 3:10
"... the Day of the Lord (the day that He returns Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:23-24) will come ... in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works ... therein shall be burned up."

This all happens the very day that Christ returns for His people. Not 1,000 years after.

 

[GEN2REV]

Me to! My pastor tried to cover it up as if you needed a special revelation to understand it. He tried to conceal it when he was teaching on the subject of the millennium. It was the dirty family secret no one wanted to talk about. On forums like this, they have to, even though they are mega uncomfortable. But they have nothing to say in response.

Many of them struggle with being seen as average folk among the forums, unlike their time in the spotlight where everyone believed anything they said and hung on their every word. They're also humiliated to discover that the average folk know more about the Bible than they do because they didn't have it spoon fed to them by corrupt institutions and prideful men who were corrupted by prideful men.

 

[Marilyn C]

So who are all these mortals and what qualifies them to inherit the age to come?

These are descendants from the third in Israel, (Zech. 13: 8) and the `sheep` nations.

 

[Marilyn C]

There is no earth to come back to, though.

Look at 2 Peter 3:10
"... the Day of the Lord (the day that He returns Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:23-24) will come ... in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works ... therein shall be burned up."

This all happens the very day that Christ returns for His people. Not 1,000 years after.

Do you notice the words `in the which`..... That shows that there is a period of time. Now in Hebrew and Greek the word `Day,` is a specific day, (as when the Lord returns, Rev. 6: 17) and ALSO a period of time.

The prophet Joel tells us when that starts, (the Day of the Lord period of time). It is when the northern army comes down to Israel and God deals with it there. (Joel 2: 1 & 20)

We see the end of the Day of the Lord period of time being when the earth and heavens are melted, as Peter says.

So, Russian war -> trib, -> millennium -> NHNE. = The Day of the Lord period of time.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Hi WPM,

I certainly agree that it would be ridiculous for glorified saints to come back to this earth. God`s word never says that. I do believe in the millennium for Israel to rule the nations under Christ, (in glory) as God planned for them to do.

Marilyn.

What's nonsensical is that this doesn't depict Premill at all. It may be the beliefs of many individual Premills all mixed together to make an incoherent picture of what Premills in general do *not* believe!

I do not need to prove this. It goes without saying. It's telling that there is no quote to substantiate what you think "Premills believe."

Where do you get your ideas of what pre-millennial's think? You must have very different sources from any I've every heard. What are they?

Much love!

Dr David Jeremiah
Scroll down to "Will believers today be on earth for the Millennium?"

 

[Randy Kluth]

Dr David Jeremiah
Scroll down to "Will believers today be on earth for the Millennium?"

Yea, I'm not a Dispensationalist, but apart from a few details, he's saying exactly what I've been saying, that the Millennium is built upon the promises in the OT Prophets of a time when Israel will finally be delivered from her oppressors. That was, however, well before the international Church came into view, which was also promised to Abraham.

Abraham was promised both Israel and a family of nations that share the same faith in the one true God and in His Messiah. The Messianic Age is referred to numerous times in the OT Scriptures, and we don't need the length of a thousand years to understand that it is a special and climactic period in mortal history. Thanks much!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Deception is rampant in the Premil millennium because there are countless people that reject Christ in their heart and are forced to give feigned worship in Jerusalem to Christ or they will be swiped with His rod of iron? The Premil millennium is a sham.

You're of course entitled to your opinion, brother. I don't see the problem, but I know you do.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The whole thing is fanciful. It is a fairy tale. It will never happen. Keep taking the pills. LOL.

Well, so much that Jesus did seems fanciful. But none of it was irrational. Neither is belief in what the Scriptures say will happen in the thousand year period. I know it doesn't make sense to you, but it does to me.

 

[Christian Gedge]

I am presenting the standard modern Premil view. If you read my post carefully you would note that the resurrected saints are dwelling on the millennial earth in my portrayal. That was my central point.

A play on Google picked up Dr. David Jeremiah and his view would be as you say - 'standard.' Thomas Ice might be a good source too. I support your depiction of the 'standard view'. Indeed, that is why I left pre-millennialism for Amil some years ago.