Antichrist - Pope

[JohnPaul]

Or perhaps, as I believe, was it because they were serious students of the Bible.

I believe it was because they were serious students of the Bible and saw what the Church was doing was wrong and against the word of God, like you could by salvation and a place in heaven.

 

[keithr]

2 full pages of cut and paste rubbish.
Wow that took a lot of thought and fact checking.
I gave my refutation - "pathetic"

Well it took more thought, fact checking and effort than you put into your reply. You even said, "I can't be bothered", so why did you bother to reply? Just so you could attack me, calling me not very bright?

Mat 5:43-45 (WEB):
(43) “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
(44) But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you,
(45) that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.

Gal 5:13-15 (WEB):
(13) For you, brothers, were called for freedom. Only don’t use your freedom for gain to the flesh, but through love be servants to one another.
(14) For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
(15) But if you bite and devour one another, be careful that you don’t consume one another.

Mat 5:21-22 (LSV):
(21) You heard that it was said to the ancients: You will not murder, and whoever may murder will be in danger of the judgment;
(22) but I say to you that everyone who is angry at his brother without cause, will be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Stupid, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, and whoever may say, Moron, will be in danger of the Gehenna of fire.

Mat 7:20 (WEB):
(20) Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

 

[keithr]

My take on homosexuality on that it's a mental sickness, ...

My take is that is is a punishment from God for not believing that God is our creator. People still teach today the theory of evolution as though it is the truth, even though it has been proved beyond all doubt to be a false theory - and homsexuality seems to be on the increase, and even encouraged. See Romans 1:18-32 (WEB):

(18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
(19) because that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them.
(20) For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse.
(21) Because, knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, neither gave thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened.
(22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
(23) and traded the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things.
(24) Therefore God also gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves;
(25) who exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
(26) For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For their women changed the natural function into that which is against nature.
(27) Likewise also the men, leaving the natural function of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another, men doing what is inappropriate with men, and receiving in themselves the due penalty of their error.
(28) Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
(29) being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil habits, secret slanderers,
(30) backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
(31) without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful;
(32) who, knowing the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them.

 

[JohnPaul]

My take is that is is a punishment from God for not believing that God is our creator. People still teach today the theory of evolution as though it is the truth, even though it has been proved beyond all doubt to be a false theory - and homsexuality seems to be on the increase, and even encouraged. See Romans 1:18-32 (WEB):

(18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
(19) because that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them.
(20) For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse.
(21) Because, knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, neither gave thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened.
(22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
(23) and traded the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things.
(24) Therefore God also gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves;
(25) who exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
(26) For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For their women changed the natural function into that which is against nature.
(27) Likewise also the men, leaving the natural function of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another, men doing what is inappropriate with men, and receiving in themselves the due penalty of their error.
(28) Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
(29) being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil habits, secret slanderers,
(30) backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
(31) without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful;
(32) who, knowing the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them.

I believe in the book of Leviticus where it says if a man sleepeth with another man as he would a woman may he be put to death and the blood of his own head be put on his hands and the same for woman, unless the individuals see their wrong doing and beg for forgiveness and abstain from their deviancy, and repent for their sins, that goes for beastility. I still think it’s a form of deviancy and mental health.

 

[Mungo]

Well it took more thought, fact checking and effort than you put into your reply. You even said, "I can't be bothered", so why did you bother to reply? Just so you could attack me, calling me not very bright?

Mat 5:43-45 (WEB):
(43) “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
(44) But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you,
(45) that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.

Gal 5:13-15 (WEB):
(13) For you, brothers, were called for freedom. Only don’t use your freedom for gain to the flesh, but through love be servants to one another.
(14) For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
(15) But if you bite and devour one another, be careful that you don’t consume one another.

Mat 5:21-22 (LSV):
(21) You heard that it was said to the ancients: You will not murder, and whoever may murder will be in danger of the judgment;
(22) but I say to you that everyone who is angry at his brother without cause, will be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Stupid, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, and whoever may say, Moron, will be in danger of the Gehenna of fire.

Mat 7:20 (WEB):
(20) Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

If you were concerned about loving your neighbour then why publish such rubbish?
Or does it come under hate your enemy?

 

[amigo de christo]

Pope Francis is very cunning in the way he talks, Pope John Paul II came across to me as more authentic man of God, though he venerated Mary the most out of all Popes, I believe he had the bullet placed in his Mitre that almost killed him when he visited Fatima Portugal and had an M for Mary engraved on his coffin, so I hear, but he didn't come across to me as Pope Francis does and Pope Benedict wasn't Pope for too long for me to be able to comment on him, but I know he was a hardline Catholic and never made any acceptance remarks regarding homosexuals and transexuals and all the other deviancy that comes along with Homosexuality.

They are truly up to no good . They are trying to blend the faiths and the other religions of the world to come together
and serve this social gospel . Which is no gospel at all . They are and have been busy at work to transform the worlds religions
into this do good religion in which we all have common ground , under the lie that we are all serving the same God .
its like they are creating a religion and mindset which shall serve Humanity and NOT GOD , serve the beast and not Christ .
ONLY they deck it out with so many good works and make it seem like its good and love . They are super slick my friend .
We must remain diligent in our walk in Christ , stay planted in those bibles and resist this lie by and through our FAITH IN JESUS ALONE .

 

[amigo de christo]

For what reasons did the reformers risk life and limb, (literally), in their damning accusations against the church which raised them? Nearly all the reformers were priests, with no intentions of forming new churches, but reforming the one they loved and held dear. Yet what have impetus to the Troutman was their accusing the very institution which educated and confirmed them in their faith, of being the dreaded Antichrist of prophetic scripture. Why?

Was it revenge for being excommunicated? No, they were excommunicated for the most part because of the accusations. Was it the worst insult they could come up with because of a personal grudge? Hardly. Or perhaps, as I believe, was it because they were serious students of the Bible and saw unmistakably the fulfilment of the many prophecies regarding Antichrist being played out perfectly before their very eyes?
As I said previously. The Bible gives specific criteria. I'm not plucking any random candidate out of the air. It isn't up to us to suggest names just because we think they are evil. That's not how this works. And it wasn't how the reformers came to their conclusions either. And if there was one thing they agreed on, it was they prophetic fulfillment of the Papacy as the Antichrist, with it's Pope as the embodiment and spokesman for the system they lead.

We must all be on gaurd . Specially in these latter days . Deception and deceptoins are going viral now my friend .
They are , as pope francis himself said , HEALING THE WOUND . Isnt that rather odd
that they use this langauge to bring us all right back under ROME . Healing the wound as they call it .
They truly beleive the church recieved a deadly wound during the reformation . THEIR OWN WORDS MY FRIEND
and now they are DOING all to HEAL THE WOUND . again their own words .
ISNT that rather peculiar langauge . WHOSE DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED .

 

[keithr]

If you were concerned about loving your neighbour then why publish such rubbish?
Or does it come under hate your enemy?

Why don't you just read what I wrote? In the opening post I wrote, "I thought I'd share it here, as I find it very interesting". I'm just trying to help my brethren in Christ to better understand God's word in the Bible. I consider that more love than hate.

I have been slowly reading the book titled King Of The Ark, which I regard as a good book, well worth reading, and I shared part of it. You have simpy stated that it is "pathetic" and "rubbish", yet you have not bothered to explain why you think any of it is incorrect. If it is "rubbish" then it shouldn't be too difficult for you to point out why it is rubbish. You would then be helping your fellow Christians, rather than just throwing around insults and empty criticism.

 

[Mungo]

Why don't you just read what I wrote? In the opening post I wrote, "I thought I'd share it here, as I find it very interesting". I'm just trying to help my brethren in Christ to better understand God's word in the Bible. I consider that more love than hate.

I have been slowly reading the book titled King Of The Ark, which I regard as a good book, well worth reading, and I shared part of it. You have simpy stated that it is "pathetic" and "rubbish", yet you have not bothered to explain why you think any of it is incorrect. If it is "rubbish" then it shouldn't be too difficult for you to point out why it is rubbish. You would then be helping your fellow Christians, rather than just throwing around insults and empty criticism.

Are you Seventh Day Adventist.
They love copy and pasting great anti-catholic tracts. It takes them a few minutes but expect Catholics to spend hours tracking down references to reply. Then when they do they ignore the reply and just copy and paste a whole lot more.
SDA's go on about the Catholic Church changing God's Law (by which they always mean the Saturday Sabbath).
SDA's make claims without any evidence and never do so if asked.
SDA'a quote from obscure Catholic publications as though they were authoritative.
SDA's give lots of opinions but very few checkable facts.

Have you checked out those supposed quotes from "The Catholic Record” and “Saint Catherine’s Catholic Church Sentinel”?
Are they accurate?
And suppose they are, what does that prove?
Nothing! Because they are not official statements by the Catholic Church.

 

[amigo de christo]

Are you Seventh Day Adventist.
They love copy and pasting great anti-catholic tracts. It takes them a few minutes but expect Catholics to spend hours tracking down references to reply. Then when they do they ignore the reply and just copy and paste a whole lot more.
SDA's go on about the Catholic Church changing God's Law (by which they always mean the Saturday Sabbath).
SDA's make claims without any evidence and never do so if asked.
SDA'a quote from obscure Catholic publications as though they were authoritative.
SDA's give lots of opinions but very few checkable facts.

Have you checked out those supposed quotes from "The Catholic Record” and “Saint Catherine’s Catholic Church Sentinel”?
Are they accurate?
And suppose they are, what does that prove?
Nothing! Because they are not official statements by the Catholic Church.

Well i am not adventist , but rest assured me is gonna warn against pope francis and his men .

 

[Mungo]

Well it took more thought, fact checking and effort than you put into your reply.

So what facts did you check?
Not that there are many facts in that piece. It's mostly speculation and the sort of logic that says 2+2=22 because both sides of the equation have two 2s.

Here are a couple of facts for you.
1. The quote from the Catholic Record (even if it is an accurate quote) is not Church teaching.
Catholic Record: "The church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact."
Catholic Church: "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant." (CCC 86)

2. Saint Catherine’s Catholic Church Sentinel: "The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday."
Catholic Church: Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week (CCC 2175)

Did you check those "facts" keith?
It doesn't look like it.
So what "facts" did you check?

 

[keithr]

Are you Seventh Day Adventist.

No.

Have you checked out those supposed quotes from "The Catholic Record” and “Saint Catherine’s Catholic Church Sentinel”?

No, not yet. Have you?

Are they accurate? And suppose they are, what does that prove?

It's evidence in support of the author's claims about the Pope's supposing themselves to have authority to change God's laws, and evidence that the Papacy is what the prophecy in Daniel was pointing to:

“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.” (Daniel 7:25).

 

[Mungo]

No.

Then Rebecca Tourniaire must be. The whole post shouts SDA.

No, not yet. Have you?

You posted the OP. You should be checking the facts.
Or don't you care about the truth?
Or as long as it's Catholic bashing then it's good enough to post.

I did check the Catholic Record quote and the first part isn't there. The second part is there but missing a word. However as I pointed out it's not Catholic teaching.
If I could check then so could you.

It's evidence in support of the author's claims about the Pope's supposing themselves to have authority to change God's laws, and evidence that the Papacy is what the prophecy in Daniel was pointing to:

No it isn't evidence because it's not what the Catholic Church teaches as I showed in post #51

“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.” (Daniel 7:25).

But as I showed in post #51 the Pope hasn't changed God's laws.
But since you like quoting scripture, try applying this one:
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" (Ex 20:16)

 

[keithr]

So what facts did you check?

Okay, I've done a quick check. For the Catholic Record quote see The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923. - about half way through the article the text is highlighted in bold:

For Catholics it is not the slightest difficulty. "All power is given Me in heaven and on earth; as the Father sent Me so I also send you," said our Divine Lord in giving His tremendous commission to His Apostles. "He that heareth you heareth Me." We have in the authoritative voice of the Church the voice of Christ Himself. The Church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance from Saturday to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God.​

A photocopy of the orginal can be seen/downloaded at The Catholic record : Volume XLV, [No.] 2342 (S... - Canadiana Online. The first part ("Sunday is our mark of authority") is quoted at Biblical Prophecy | Philadelphia Church of God and on other web pages, but I couldn't find it in the original.

For the Saint Catherine’s Catholic Church Sentinel quote, see Sabbath Diagnosis

Did you check those "facts" keith? It doesn't look like it.

I have now!

 

[Mungo]

Okay, I've done a quick check. For the Catholic Record quote see The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923. - about half way through the article the text is highlighted in bold:

For Catholics it is not the slightest difficulty. "All power is given Me in heaven and on earth; as the Father sent Me so I also send you," said our Divine Lord in giving His tremendous commission to His Apostles. "He that heareth you heareth Me." We have in the authoritative voice of the Church the voice of Christ Himself. The Church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance from Saturday to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God.​

For the Saint Catherine’s Catholic Church Sentinel quote, see Sabbath Diagnosis


I have now!

And as I said the first part “Sunday is our mark of authority..." is not there.

However you are avoiding the main point I am trying to get across to you.
Those quotes are:
a) Not authoritative. Local papers and parish newsletters are not official documents of the Catholic Church.
b) As I showed in post #51 they are wrong. The Church does not teach what they say. In fact in both cases the Church teaches the opposite.
Therefore the claims in the book are false.