Any thoughts on this? No exploding heads please.

[stunnedbygrace]

You were the one who said you were satisfied, not me

I said I researched it “to my satisfaction.”
You are the one who did the twisty thing with the word I used.

 

[marks]

I cannot understand the Middle English you referenced. However, maintaining an invalid concept is a fruitless endeavor.

It's the Koine Greek. Learning truth is never fruitless.

Much love!

 

[Mr E]

I said I researched it “to my satisfaction.”
You are the one who did the twisty thing with the word I used.

Soooo twisty!

I’ve found what I wanted to find in this thread, to my satisfaction

I have explained it to my satisfaction.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Soooo twisty!

Yes. Like a snake.

 

[Mr E]

Yes. Like a snake.

Like a snake on a pole?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Like a snake on a pole?

No. Like a snake who dug a pit and laid a net and then fell into his own trap.

 

[Wrangler]

It's the Koine Greek. Learning truth is never fruitless.

Much love!

I don't speak Greek. I am Groot. Accepting bad ideas is always fruitless.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What are you doing in here anyway? Epi went that-a-way.

 

[marks]

How would that work, since the massive bulk of when “sons of God“ is used in my Bible is in the NT, with only the three verses the theory is based on in the OT and no verses the theory is based on in the NT?

Where you see bene elohim in the OT, look at the Septuagint translation to see what Greek words the ancient Hebrews used to translate from bene elohim into Greek. Then look for that expression in the NT. I use things like E-Sword, the Apostolic Polyglot, Interlinear Scripture Analyzer, as I have no formal Hebrew training and limited formal Koine Greek training.

Adam is called the "son of God", but Seth is not, Seth is called the son of Adam. And it's not that Seth is God's grandchild. Adam came directly from God, Seth did not.

John 1:12 KJV
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don't speak Greek. I am Groot. Accepting bad ideas is always fruitless.

It sounds like you aren't interested in learning more. I'm just sayin'.

Meanwhile, how do you account for us being dead in sin, yet still moving around?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't speak Greek. I am Groot. Accepting bad ideas is always fruitless.

If I’m following the conversation, marks is trying again to show by Greek that death does not mean something final?

I agree that is not a good idea.
First, it echoes the snake in the garden- did God really say you would die? Not so!
Secondly, the second death is mentioned. Not just a first death, but a second death.
If you do away with death and say everyone lives forever and it’s just that it can be a bad life or a good life, I dont find that fitting with the whole of scripture.
Eternal torture is very suspect If a first and second death means a first and second life.

 

[Wrangler]

I maintain there is more to it than that.

CEV

• Ephesians 2:1-2: In the past you were dead because you sinned and fought against God.
• Colossians 2:13: You were dead, because you were sinful and were not God's people. But God let Christ make you[a] alive, when he forgave all our sins.

OK. Having the time to find a 21st century American translation, I realize now that you are relying on mysticism rather than recognizing figurative language usage. We are all dead (headed toward annihilation), by default, but for the Grace of God, right? These passages just point out that the audience was on the wide path that Jesus talked about. It leads to death.

An alternative figurative explanation is those who lack the Spirit of God will not be resurrected and are already "dead." We speak figuratively this way today. A man about to be put to death often hear "Dead man. Dead man walking." It is not literally true yet but the inevitable is plain to see.

Hope this helps.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Adam is called the "son of God", but Seth is not, Seth is called the son of Adam. And it's not that Seth is God's grandchild. Adam came directly from God, Seth did not.

I think that’s a weak argument.
He came from the loins of Adam, a son of God.
All through the Bible we see God calling men by the names of the branch they sprung from.

 

[Wrangler]

It sounds like you aren't interested in learning more. I'm just sayin'.

Putting aside retreating to foreign languages, I've already learned that mysticism is foolishness. Therefore, I reject all such appeals. Search instead for rational explanations.

 

[marks]

If I understand him correctly-- he's just saying that physical death is not the same as spiritual death.

Scripture delineates the first death (physical) from the second death (spirit). You disagree with the distinction? Physical death, where 'the body stops working' is not a permanent state--in other words, it's not the end. It's more like moving day.

Like, the spirit moves on and leave an empty house behind.

The commonality to each sort of "death" is a separation. Physical death is when the soul/spirit is separated from the body by malfunction. Spiritual death is when the spirit is separated from God by sin.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Uh oh, Random thought.
A still small voice does not sound like thunder or a thundering voice or the sound of many chariots…

 

[marks]

I do understand that them leaving their proper dwelling place/leaving their habitation most likely has something to do with taking human form. But from there, men took a leap that is not stated. I think it more likely involved trickery like…making them believe you were a human so they would, instead of running in terror from you, listen to things you were encouraging them to do. Things like how to make your children genetically different somehow so they would be like gods on the earth. And other things too, since God destroyed all but a few animals.

Jude 1:6-7 KJV
6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

• Ephesians 2:1-2: In the past you were dead because you sinned and fought against God.
• Colossians 2:13: You were dead, because you were sinful and were not God's people. But God let Christ make you[a] alive, when he forgave all our sins.

He elsewhere (in Jude?) refers to men as “doubly dead.”

 

[Wrangler]

If I’m following the conversation, marks is trying again to show by Greek that death does not mean something final?

Well, the problem with mystical dualism is there is never an exclusive answer. His own references undermine the notion of finality connected to death.

CEV

• Ephesians 2:1-2: In the past you were dead because you sinned and fought against God.
• Colossians 2:13: You were dead, because you were sinful and were not God's people. But God let Christ make you[a] alive, when he forgave all our sins.

There is an Old Navy commercial where the woman says 'sorry, not sorry.' Mystical dualism is like that. Dead but not dead. Dead from a certain POV. A kind of death but also a kind of still living. Huh? It reminds me so much of the Cat in the Hat or Humpty Dumpty.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Jude 1:6-7 KJV
6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Much love!

I don’t think strange flesh means Angel flesh. I think it just means regular human flesh you aren’t supposed mingle your human flesh with. Like when God forbid men to sleep with women from a certain place or forbid Men to sleep with other men, or animals.