rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
The most significant event and you will NEVER see a postribber go there.
They may challenge it and smear it, but they have no knowledge of what is the heart of heaven, or the passion of the bride.
Apostle Paul Showed The Rapture Happens With The Future Resurrection
- Thread starter Davy
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
They may challenge it and smear it, but they have no knowledge of what is the heart of heaven, or the passion of the bride.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
MA2444
Well-Known Member
You sure wont! It has everything to do with ancient Hebrew wedding customs. Somebody quit studying it out too soon! It makes no sense to argue with them though.
Well, I'm certainly not a "postribber," but I'll speak to your "challenge..."
The different takes on Jesus's statements in Matthew 24:36-44 are... interesting... Let me offer this:
"For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
The flood was God's judgment of the world, and the ones who were "swept away" were the wicked, all those whose "every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." But Noah "found favor in the eyes of the LORD" (Genesis 6:1-8). All except Noah and his family were taken/removed... "blot(ted) out from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens." And here in Matthew 24, Jesus is likening His coming to "the days of Noah." I would submit that the sweeping away will be of the unrepentant... unbelievers, quite the opposite of any kind of removal of those in Christ, those who, even now, because of their having been born again of the Spirit, because of the faith they have been given, because of their being in Christ ~ who have been gathered by God and placed in Christ ~ have been clothed in the righteousness of Christ and thus... found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
So, to believe in a "rapture" where Christ "removes His church" is precisely the opposite of what is going to happen at the end of the age, the coming final Judgment. Those on the wrong side of the Judgment, those on Jesus's left (Matthew 25:41-46) will be... "blotted out from the face of the earth," sent away from the New Heaven and New Earth. Those "left behind" will be those in Christ, thereby staying here with Him... and for eternity, of course... in the New Heaven and New Earth. In the words of Isaiah, "everlasting joy shall be upon (our) heads; (we) shall obtain gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away" (35:10).
Grace and peace to all.
Last edited:
Okay, well, try again.
See above.God never promises to remove us from trial or tribulation, but He does promise ~ over and over and over again ~ to be with us through it; His steadfast love endures forever, and He will never leave us or forsake us. We all love Psalm 23, of course:
"...Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life..."
As Jesus says to His disciples in John 16:
"I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."
And in Matthew 28:
"And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
Grace and peace to you.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
And Psalm 91!!! We are never promised in scripture that we will be free from tribulations and hardships. That's what we're here for, to suffer like Christ did. I wasnt talking about tribulations such as are common to man. I was talking about that God pronises in scripture that we will not see the wrath of God. There's a big difference between tribulations and the wrath of God!
Revelation 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.../KJV
Isaiah 26:20
“Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.”.../KJV
Both of those verses are talking speciffically about the Great Tribulation...such as the world has never seen before! Not common problems, but huge problems. Life & Death problems. The church will not even see the wrath of God it will be so bad! He loves you more than that to put you through that. This is the Bride we're talking about, right? She is set apart Brother. I have even more scriptures if you need them. He snatches up His Bride and takes her away! Common tribulations do not equal the great tribulation.
Grace and peace.
Obviously, verse 40 and 41 are also being applied to verse 39. What is your interpretation of verse 39 then?
Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:37-39, Like in the days of Noah, the people were warned of the coming flood, as Noah built the Ark, but scoffed at Noah, until the realization hit home when the flood came and they suffered the consequences of it. God had closed the door to the ark after Noah and his family were safely inside.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Jesus framed Noah BEFORE the flood.Well, I'm certainly not a "postribber," but I'll speak to your "challenge..."
The different takes on Jesus's statements in Matthew 24:36-44 are... interesting... Let me offer this:
"For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
The flood was God's judgment of the world, and the ones who were "swept away" were the wicked, all those whose "every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." But Noah "found favor in the eyes of the LORD" (Genesis 6:1-8). All except Noah and his family were taken/removed... "blot(ted) out from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens." And here in Matthew 24, Jesus is likening His coming to "the days of Noah." I would submit that the sweeping away will be of the unrepentant... unbelievers, quite the opposite of any kind of removal of those in Christ, those who, even now, because of their having been born again of the Spirit, because of the faith they have been given, because of their being in Christ ~ who have been gathered by God and placed in Christ ~ have been clothed in the righteousness of Christ and thus... found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
So, to believe in a "rapture" where Christ "removes His church" is precisely the opposite of what is going to happen at the end of the age, the coming final Judgment. Those on the wrong side of the Judgment, those on Jesus's left (Matthew 25:41-46) will be... "blotted out from the face of the earth," sent away from the New Heaven and New Earth. Those "left behind" will be those in Christ, thereby staying here with Him... and for eternity, of course... in the New Heaven and New Earth. In the words of Isaiah, "everlasting joy shall be upon (our) heads; (we) shall obtain gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away" (35:10).
Grace and peace to all.
Noah entered the ark before the flood.
Ark is a type of heaven.
Noah was removed first.
He was taken higher than the mountains into the heavens DURING the judgement.
He RETURNED TO EARTH post judgement.
He is framed by Jesus alongside Lot as a prejudgement dynamic.
Mat 24
they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, .....(Noah taken first)
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be....( 100% pre flood setting and dynamic. 100%. FRAMED alongside Lot, another 100% prejudgment dynamic)
And lo, it gets even worse.....
38 .....THE DAY Noah entered the ark. (Prejudgement Noah disappears)
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; SO SHALL also THE COMING of the Son of man BE. (SO SHALL THE COMING BE)
40 THEN ( YES PREJUDGEMENT ) shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
One half of a group taken. At the rapture pretrib.
100% facts...100%
When you leave out facts the story can be adjusted any way doctrine necessitates.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
The baby Jesus removed pre slaughter.Okay, well, try again.
God never promises to remove us from trial or tribulation, but He does promise ~ over and over and over again ~ to be with us through it; His steadfast love endures forever, and He will never leave us or forsake us. We all love Psalm 23, of course:
"...Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life..."
As Jesus says to His disciples in John 16:
"I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."
And in Matthew 28:
"And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
Grace and peace to you.
Lot removed prejudgment
Noah framed alongside lot as a prejudgement removal
The 2 removal verses;
"Since you have kept the word of my testimony, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth"
Jesus said "...but pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the Earth and to stand before the son of man"
God removes his people over and over
Sure. Of course.
No, He doesn't. When He returns in glory, He will finally and completely claim what was His from the beginning. And it will be a very rapturous event, a seizing/snatching of what is His. And in short order, all will be judged, each according to what he/she has done. As a result of this judgment (Matthew 7:21-23, 25:31-46, Revelation 20:11-15) those on Jesus's left will depart obediently, which may sound very mild, but is... well, is not.
Hm. I will say that at near the time of Jesus's return, there will be a great ramping up of tribulation... such as has never been seen before, as Jesus says.
Thank you; grace and peace to you also.
You've done well soaking up your false Pre-trib Rapture preacher's lies about the day of Christ's future coming. What Jesus said is true, no man knows the 'day' or 'hour' of His coming, which means the DATE and TIME, not a DESCRIPTION OF THE EVENT OF HIS COMING like the Matthew 24:29-31 verses give! How deceived by them can you be!
Have you ever read in my posts anywhere... that I gave a DATE for Lord Jesus' future coming? NO! You have not. I don't know what 'day' (date) He will come. But I know per Bible prophecy the ORDER of EVENTS HE HIMSELF GAVE FOR US TO BE WATCHING FOR HIS COMING. But you don't even have a clue... of that which He gave and commanded us to be WATCHING.
But your Biblical IGNORANCE is so great, that you TRY to turn the Matthew 24:29-31 'description' of His coming, along with the prophetic parameters it givens, as a LIE!
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:31 is not a rapture/resurrection event. Look at the part I highlighted in red in Matthew 24:31 above and the part I highlighted in red in Deuteroromy 30:4 below.
That verse is about the final gathering of the house of Israel scattered among the nations. It is a promise that God made to them in Deuteronomy 30:1-6.
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
There's that IGNORANCE AGAIN!
What does it mean when those on man's FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY make the FALSE CLAIM that Jesus raptures His Church BEFORE THE GREAT TRIBULATION?? Hey! Is Douggy not claiming the DAY of Christ's coming PER HIS ACCUSATION? Yeah! He's doing the VERY THING he falsely accuses me of!!
That should... reveal to true Brethren in Christ here just how DECEIVED his mind is by those FALSE PREACHERS he listens to.
Nowhere in my posts will one find me claiming a DATE for Christ's future coming.
That is what Lord Jesus meant when He said no man knows the day or hour of His coming. We CAN know the ORDER OF EVENTS leading up to His future return, because He gave that to His FAITHFUL Church by the SIGNS in His Olivet discourse He COMMANDED His Church to be WATCHING! But that does NOT give us the specific 'day' (date) or 'hour' of His coming.
What is sad, is that Doug probably does not realize that he is telling LIES against God's written Word and those like me that refuse to give him and his false Pre-trib Rapture theory he loves any sway.
Uh, Uh, Uh... your FALSE Pre-trib Rapture doctors say Christ's Olivet discourse was not written for Christ's Church! That means you CANNOT use any... Scripture from that Chapter to try and support your FALSE Pre-trib Rapture!
Brethren in Christ, if you just look at how those on men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory lie against the written Scripture, then it's easy to know their whole theory is from 'another spirit', and not from Christ Jesus.
Hmm, I agree in a certain sense. He says "as in the days of Noah," which doesn't really set any kind of "frame" except during the time Noah lived, and Noah lived before, during, and after the flood. So in that sense, I disagree. However, Jesus does provide His own context in making those comments, the fullness of which we have to gather from both Matthew 24 and Luke 17:
"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man" (Matthew 24:36-39).
"For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day. But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all" (Luke 17:24-27).
In this commentary, Jesus has as His subjects not Noah and his family but rather "they" and "them," underlined in both passages above... that's who will be "removed," or, to use Jesus's actual words, "swept away," and "destroyed." And as we can clearly see in both these passages, Jesus is talking about the unexpectedness and suddenness of this event.
That he certainly did, and his family and the animals with him. But to apply that in the way you are... Well, I'll just respectfully disagree with the implication you're making and leave it at that; we've had this conversation before.
Ah. Again, I respectfully disagree, the ark is a type, a shadow, of Jesus. In the ark, the lives of Noah and his family and the animals ~ who represent us in Noah's story ~ are preserved through the storm/flood. Jesus is our ark. We are in Him, in Christ, and He preserves us to the end. And in a larger sense, God's creation is preserved, and the covenant of life is remade with Noah after the flood:
“God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, 'Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything" (Genesis 9:1-3).
We call this the Noahic Covenant... it is the remaking of the Adamic Covenant:
"God blessed them. And God said to them, 'Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.' And God said, 'Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.'" (Genesis 1:28-30).
Preserved. See above. Much like the firstborn sons of the Hebrews in the Passover. So, saved or delivered, and thus protected from consequences of sin and from God's wrath ~ redeemed by the blood of the lamb, as the old hymn goes. The firstborn sons of the Egyptians, however...
Yes. His life was preserved. Again, what you're saying... the context you are putting this into... is very different than Jesus's in Matthew 24 and Luke 17. The ones who will be "removed" ~ swept away, destoyed (but certainly not annihilated) ~ as a result of the final Judgment are the unrepentant... unbelievers... who, even up to that time, will remain unaware and will be surprised, even mortified, at the outcome, as we see in Matthew 25:44, and will then, at Jesus's command ~ "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" ~ will "go away into eternal punishment" (Matthew 25:46).
Well, we don't know the percentages...
But there will be two groups... <chuckle>
See above.I agree.
Actually, I think it is more appropriate here ~ because no one is "leaving out facts" ~ to say, "When you inadvertently shift the focus and make it something it is not..." See above.Grace and peace to you, Rebuilder.
You're funny!
You cannot even tell the difference between the 'bride' in Christ's symbolic parable of the TEN VIRGINS, and the idea of the 'virgins' as His Church!
Here is the bride Jesus marries when He comes...
Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
KJV
Rev 21:9-10
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
KJV
I'd bet you don't even know where that idea of JERUSALEM as the BRIDE was first written of in The Old Testament Books!
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Your verses that you pointed out in Matthew are not the rapture. That Gathering is from Heaven not earth and it is by Angels not Jesus. We both believe that Jesus returns after the tribulation. That postrib return is also depicted in Revelation 19. That postrib Return of Jesus on a white horse with millions or even billions of followers on white horses will blacken in the sky. So those Saints are gathered in heaven, by angels, where they have been for 7 years, as your mat 24 verses depicts, and they mount horses in heaven and then they follow Jesus down to earth.
there's absolutely no Rapture in that nor do you have any verses of a post tribulation rapture.
Psssst.
....And thankfully I don't have to call you a liar as you slam everyone with that thoroughly debunks your error.
You are unbelievably debunked and yet you continue to omit and REFRAME.
The lie you point to is verses you omit, then call the ones with Gods word liars.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Uh, Jesus ain't gonna marry a building.
Try again.
And do omit the relevant verses.
Show us more omissions.
You seem stuck there.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Similar threads
