Apostle Paul Showed The Rapture Happens With The Future Resurrection

[Davy]

Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the day of Christ's future coming and gathering of His faithful Church...

1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

If we believe that Lord Jesus rose from the dead, then also we should believe that Jesus will bring the dead 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes. That is what Paul is saying there.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The actual word for "prevent" in the Greek does not mean that; the Greek word means 'precede', to go beforehand. Paul is saying we who remain still alive to that day of Christ's coming, we shall not precede the asleep saints that are already with Jesus (per 2 Cor.5, remember, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord).


16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

There in red is what those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture definitely skip and omit in their false teaching. By that Paul shows the 'asleep' saints are RESURRECTED first. Just when brethren does the FUTURE RESURRECTION HAPPEN?? Per Jesus in John 5:28-29, the future resurrection happens ONLY on the LAST DAY of this present world. That is when Paul is showing here that the RESURRECTION of the asleep saints will happen, and when Jesus comes to gather His Church.


17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

Only that 17th verse is about what some call a 'rapture'. The actual word in the Greek is harpazo, and it means to seize. The KJV translators chose the "caught up" phrase for it, as the word rapture actually comes from a Latin translation from Greek harpazo. (I prefer to use that "caught up" phrase most often simply because of how those behind men's false pre-tribulational rapture theory have abused the word rapture by wrongly teaching this gathering event by Christ will be PRIOR to the tribulation, which is obviously against what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, their making Jesus a liar.)

So there it is, showing that those on man's false pre-trib rapture theory don't really even know what Apostle Paul taught about the timing of Christ's coming to gather His Church, per the 1 Thessalonians 4 Scripture.

 

[GISMYS_7]

1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so """them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.""" THINK!! pretrib raptured believers are caught up into the clouds to be with Jesus and after the great tribulation will come back to earth with Jesus.== """them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him."""

 

[Randy Kluth]

I've always wondered why people argue about this instead of just waiting to see what happens. Unless it's simply a hobby, in which case, by all means continue.

There's a reason for every doctrine contained in the Scriptures. This is definitely a biblical doctrine.

I could surmise all day long as to why Postrib Doctrine is important. But understanding the value of the doctrine to me is of less importance than understanding that it is taught in the Scriptures and is consistent with the whole message of the Scriptures.

I would suggest that it's important to recognize that part of our lot in this present life involves endurance and suffering. If we don't understand that we may get discouraged. And I'm sure God doesn't want that. He wants us to be brave, and to hold fast to righteousness and to truth.

I've also heard others describe Trinitarian controversy as needless, as futile argumentation. But when a person really inquires into the value of our beliefs, their importance really comes out.

Peaceableness is a virtue but at times is a puffed up display of self-righteousness. There is a time for peace and a time for war. Pacifists need not apply.

 

[Davy]

I've always wondered why people argue about this instead of just waiting to see what happens. Unless it's simply a hobby, in which case, by all means continue.

Ha, ha, that's funny.

 

[Davy]

1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so """them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.""" THINK!! pretrib raptured believers are caught up into the clouds to be with Jesus and after the great tribulation will come back to earth with Jesus.== """them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him."""

Ah, ah... no pick-n'-choose what you WANT the Scripture to say; follow it line upon line...

1 Thess 4:13-16
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If we believe Jesus rose from the dead, even those asleep saints Jesus will bring with Him when He comes.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

We who remain on earth to the day of Christ's coming, shall not precede those asleep saints. That means they are already with Jesus.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

When... Lord Jesus shall descend from Heaven, which means the day of His future coming, that is when "the dead in Christ shall rise first", which is about the future RESURRECTION. That seals the timing when He comes to gather His Church timed with the future RESURRECTION on the LAST DAY of this world, NOT prior to the tribulation, but after the tribulation.

1 Thess 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

Then immediately after the asleep saints are resurrected and Jesus descends from Heaven with them, those of us who remain still on earth are then "caught up" to Jesus and those asleep saints, on His way to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, per Zechariah 14, as written.

 

[Douggg]

Then immediately after the asleep saints are resurrected and Jesus descends from Heaven with them, those of us who remain still on earth are then "caught up" to Jesus and those asleep saints, on His way to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, per Zechariah 14, as written.

Jesus warned about picking a specific day or hour -

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

At the end of the 7 years, at the peak of the great tribulation - no one is going to be working in the fields, nor at the grinding mill.

When the rapture takes place, the world will be at rest, with some thinking that the rapture is years away, on the day that Jesus returns.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

[MA2444]

I am of the Pretrib persuasion. I didnt make that decision lightly either. I used to be solidly posttrib. I've made a few pre trib comments on this board and it seems like some people freak out about it and want to be snarky and stuff. I've been called that I speak heresy (how is that even possible?), and all sorts of mean arrogant stuff. Does it take arrogance to be posttrib nowadays? I dont understand that.

Two Christians, one pre, looking out the window for Jesus, and one post who is watching TV because Jesus wont come until posttrib. Jesus comes unexpectedly, who is He going to be pleased with more? The one watching for Him or the other?

Suppose the pretribber was wrong but looking for Jesus...He will still see the black boot Gestapo coming for him with their mark of the beast before the one watching TV.

It seems to me, that pretrib is a safe position either way. And yet, I get called out as a false teacher and all that jazz. Can anyone explain the reasoning behind that?

Matthew 24:44-46
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.../KJV

Point 1. Jesus comes for the rapture of the church by surprise. There are no signs or prophecy which must happen before He comes. We know exactly when the 2nd Coming is. 1260 days after the Abomination of Desolation. So it is two seperate events. Deep study has shown this. We can go through it all here if it's done in a friendly manner. There's a lot to it and I don't want to waste my time proving something if all everyone wants to do is fight & argue. ??

 

[rebuilder 454]

Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the day of Christ's future coming and gathering of His faithful Church...

1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

If we believe that Lord Jesus rose from the dead, then also we should believe that Jesus will bring the dead 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes. That is what Paul is saying there.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The actual word for "prevent" in the Greek does not mean that; the Greek word means 'precede', to go beforehand. Paul is saying we who remain still alive to that day of Christ's coming, we shall not precede the asleep saints that are already with Jesus (per 2 Cor.5, remember, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord).


16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

There in red is what those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture definitely skip and omit in their false teaching. By that Paul shows the 'asleep' saints are RESURRECTED first. Just when brethren does the FUTURE RESURRECTION HAPPEN?? Per Jesus in John 5:28-29, the future resurrection happens ONLY on the LAST DAY of this present world. That is when Paul is showing here that the RESURRECTION of the asleep saints will happen, and when Jesus comes to gather His Church.


17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

Only that 17th verse is about what some call a 'rapture'. The actual word in the Greek is harpazo, and it means to seize. The KJV translators chose the "caught up" phrase for it, as the word rapture actually comes from a Latin translation from Greek harpazo. (I prefer to use that "caught up" phrase most often simply because of how those behind men's false pre-tribulational rapture theory have abused the word rapture by wrongly teaching this gathering event by Christ will be PRIOR to the tribulation, which is obviously against what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, their making Jesus a liar.)

So there it is, showing that those on man's false pre-trib rapture theory don't really even know what Apostle Paul taught about the timing of Christ's coming to gather His Church, per the 1 Thessalonians 4 Scripture.

Rev 14 Thoroughly debunks your entire post.
Amazing you are bogged down in that needlessly.
I do understand your huge investment in that doctrine you were taught.
Sadly they never reconciled the gathering of the Jews in rev 14 with their theory.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I am of the Pretrib persuasion. I didnt make that decision lightly either. I used to be solidly posttrib. I've made a few pre trib comments on this board and it seems like some people freak out about it and want to be snarky and stuff. I've been called that I speak heresy (how is that even possible?), and all sorts of mean arrogant stuff. Does it take arrogance to be posttrib nowadays? I dont understand that.

Two Christians, one pre, looking out the window for Jesus, and one post who is watching TV because Jesus wont come until posttrib. Jesus comes unexpectedly, who is He going to be pleased with more? The one watching for Him or the other?

Suppose the pretribber was wrong but looking for Jesus...He will still see the black boot Gestapo coming for him with their mark of the beast before the one watching TV.

It seems to me, that pretrib is a safe position either way. And yet, I get called out as a false teacher and all that jazz. Can anyone explain the reasoning behind that?

Matthew 24:44-46
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.../KJV

Point 1. Jesus comes for the rapture of the church by surprise. There are no signs or prophecy which must happen before He comes. We know exactly when the 2nd Coming is. 1260 days after the Abomination of Desolation. So it is two seperate events. Deep study has shown this. We can go through it all here if it's done in a friendly manner. There's a lot to it and I don't want to waste my time proving something if all everyone wants to do is fight & argue. ??

Part of the problem is "condemnation without investigation"
I have Thoroughly investigated both doctrines.
The bible teaches a pretrib gathering,hands down. Easily defended.
Postribbers WILL NOT honestly examin our verses.
It ain't happening.
Why? Because of their huge reckless investment via omissions.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Easy to understand for THINKING people======
1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so """them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.""" THINK!! pretrib raptured believers are caught up into the clouds to be with Jesus and after the great tribulation will come back to earth with Jesus.== """them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him."""

 

[Davy]

Jesus warned about picking a specific day or hour - like you have done.

Now you are making up LIES.

For I never said what day to expect Jesus' coming.

You clearly have lost your FALSE THEORY DEBATES, so now you default to PERSONAL ATTACK with your LIES.

May GOD rebuke you, in the Name of Jesus Christ! And rebuke is coming, get ready.

 

[Davy]

I am of the Pretrib persuasion. I didnt make that decision lightly either. I used to be solidly posttrib. I've made a few pre trib comments on this board and it seems like some people freak out about it and want to be snarky and stuff. I've been called that I speak heresy (how is that even possible?), and all sorts of mean arrogant stuff. Does it take arrogance to be posttrib nowadays? I dont understand that.

Two Christians, one pre, looking out the window for Jesus, and one post who is watching TV because Jesus wont come until posttrib. Jesus comes unexpectedly, who is He going to be pleased with more? The one watching for Him or the other?

Suppose the pretribber was wrong but looking for Jesus...He will still see the black boot Gestapo coming for him with their mark of the beast before the one watching TV.

It seems to me, that pretrib is a safe position either way. And yet, I get called out as a false teacher and all that jazz. Can anyone explain the reasoning behind that?

Matthew 24:44-46
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.../KJV

Point 1. Jesus comes for the rapture of the church by surprise. There are no signs or prophecy which must happen before He comes. We know exactly when the 2nd Coming is. 1260 days after the Abomination of Desolation. So it is two seperate events. Deep study has shown this. We can go through it all here if it's done in a friendly manner. There's a lot to it and I don't want to waste my time proving something if all everyone wants to do is fight & argue. ??

There's that false rhetoric again brethren in Christ, with that, "I used to be solidly posttrib...".

I used to believe in Santa Claus too when I was a little kid. And that is how one should treat man's FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY which is of 'another spirit', and not from God in His Word.

Notice he quotes Matthew 24:44-46 to try... and show support for a Pre-trib Rapture when those verses have absolutely NOTHING to do with a Pre-trib Rapture.

See my next Post where I cover those Matthew 24 verses line upon line instead of only a PORTION of it like those on man's FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY do.

Brethren, you've got to contest the Pre-tribbers when they post Bible Scripture, because they treat posting of Bible Scripture like cannon fodder. They don't care that it has no proof of their Pre-trib Rapture theories, they only want to TRICK you into thinking that they understand The Bible when they do not, and really they don't care to know The Bible. That is the only way they can push their trickery on you, depending on you... not knowing what The Bible actually says.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Those that reject the rapture I think God will allow them to be left behind on rapture day and try to live under anti-christ rule in the years of great tribulation===their choice!!

 

[MA2444]

There that false rhetoric is again brethren in Christ, with that, "I used to be solidly posttrib...".

I used to believe in Santa Claus too when I was a little kid. And that is how one should treat man's FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY which is of 'another spirit', and not from God in His Word.

Notice he quotes Matthew 24:44-46 to try... and show support for a Pre-trib Rapture when those verses have absolutely NOTHING to do with a Pre-trib Rapture.

See my next Post where I cover those Matthew 24 verses line upon line instead only a PORTION of it like those on man's FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY do.

Brethren, you've got contest the Pre-tribbers when they post Bible Scripture, because they treat posting of Bible Scripture like cannon fodder. They don't care that it has no proof of their Pre-trib Rapture theories, they only want to TRICK you into thinking that they understand The Bible when they do not, and really they don't care to know The Bible. That is the only way they can push their trickery on you, depending on you... not knowing what The Bible actually says.

How someone believes in the rapture tells me their escatalogical viewpoint. Like, you interpret scripture allegorically. You're what they call an Amillenialist. Which in common man terms means, you don't really believe what the Bible says.

I have all my ducks in a row and took good notes and lots of scriptures. I'm ready to toss this around. But your attitude and contempt for people makes me hesitate to even talk to you. I didnt come here to argue and trade snarks.

Lose the attitude, and...maybe.

 

[MA2444]

Now you are making up LIES.

For I never said what day to expect Jesus' coming.

You clearly have lost your FALSE THEORY DEBATES, so now you default to PERSONAL ATTACK with your LIES.

May GOD rebuke you, in the Name of Jesus Christ! And rebuke is coming, get ready.

Are you going to make this entire thread like that? you have no class whatsoever.

 

[Davy]

Jesus' Words in Matthew 24...

1. Firstly, one must understand what He said about the TIME when He comes to gather His Church...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

That above reveals that Christ's future coming to gather His Church is AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION, not prior to the trib.


2.
Matt 24:40-47
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

That idea above is something Jesus covered at the end of Luke 17 about His future coming. Jesus showed in Luke 17:37 when His disciples asked Him, "Where, Lord?" of just where... those first ones would be 'taken' to. Jesus' answer to that is in this Matthew 24 chapter also, and is the Matthew 24:28 verse...

Matt 24:28​

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.​

KJV​

Does that sound like we in Christ want to be one of those 1st ones 'taken'? No, of course not, for Jesus showed that first one 'taken' is to wherever the FOWLS are that feast on a dead "carcase". But the Satan's host that push the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory depend on your Biblical ignorance of what Jesus answered there, and they instead turn that around 180 degrees, and make you think to be TAKEN! as if it means a rapture to Jesus, which per Scripture it is not! Thus those who love Lord Jesus, but are stuck on man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory, show they are NOT listening to The Lord Jesus in His Word!

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Simple meaning there, if the goodman of the house knew the 'watch' (watch of the night) that the thief comes to break in, they would prevent their house from being broken into. Jesus is simply using a metaphor for WATCHING THE SIGNS leading up to His future return that He gave His Church in this Matthew 24 chapter (and in Mark 13 also). It is NOT about knowing the specific 'day or hour' of His coming like Douggg has TRIED to cast stones with, revealing he doesn't have a clue about this Scripture metaphor by Lord Jesus!

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

There it is, WATCHING like the goodman is about being 'ready' for when the 'thief' does come. And per Revelation 16:15, Jesus showed that He comes "as a thief" with warning His Church on the 6th Vial. The final 7th Vial is when He comes to fight the battle of Armageddon and gathers His elect Church on that last day of this world.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
KJV

Per Jesus above, should we be ready to just 'fly away' like those on man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory believe, and be the 1st one TAKEN? Or should we remain WATCHING and doing Christ's work here, waiting for Him like a "chaste virgin"? Christ's faithful Church are to be FOUND doing His work here on earth still when He does come. And just WHAT... does He show above that the kind of work we are to be found doing? We are to be giving that "meat in due season", which is about TEACHING HIS CHURCH the "strong meat" of this very Matthew 24 Chapter! What's that? The SIGNS of the end that He gave us to be WATCHING, leading up to His future coming!

Mark 13:35-37
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36 Lest coming suddenly He find you sleeping.

37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Are you going to make this entire thread like that? you have no class whatsoever.

So the actual... Bible Scripture as written, is hurting your ears, eh?

 

[Davy]

Those that reject the rapture I think God will allow them to be left behind on rapture day and try to live under anti-christ rule in the years of great tribulation===their choice!!

There it is brethren in Christ, yet another proof that those stuck on man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory DO NOT STUDY THEIR BIBLE. They don't know what God's Word actually says! If they did, then they would have understood the following teaching by Jesus concerning that 1st one TAKEN...

Jesus speaking...

Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto Him, Where, Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV

And the Matthew 24 version of Jesus' answer?

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV

The idea of "eagles" there is put for FOWLS that feed on a dead "carcase". That is the "body" Jesus was pointing to in the Luke 17:37 verse.

Is that what we are brethren, a dead "carcase", and 'taken' to where the fowls are that feast on a dead "carcase"?

How in the world could any... believer on Jesus Christ ever accept the LIE that that is about us, Christ's Church!!?!

The fact of how those on man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture Theory wrongly accept the idea of WANTING to be the 1st one TAKEN, shows just how the devil's servants who preach the pre-trib rapture theory are willing to SERVE THE DECEIVED TO SATAN ON A SILVER PLATTER!

(Oh, and by the way, Jesus and Apostle Paul taught that the coming false-Messiah comes FIRST, prior to Jesus' future return. So who do you think those 1st ones TAKEN are being prepared by Satan's servants to go to?)

 

[Davy]

Those that reject the rapture I think God will allow them to be left behind on rapture day and try to live under anti-christ rule in the years of great tribulation===their choice!!

Funny, ha, ha! Your pushing lies again!

You should actually study Jesus' answer in Luke 17:37 about the 1st ones TAKEN. It ain't about His faithful Church.

There, I've shown the actual Scripture Proof that shows man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture doctrine is NOT written in God's Word, and Lord Jesus NEVER promoted such a LIE by Satan's servants!

A friend of mine who's father is a pastor over a Church that teaches the Pre-trib Rapture theory lie told me his father was also a member of the Masonic Lodge. He got his son in to join, and the temple master asked him to call him "Worshipful Master". My friend said he couldn't do it, because ONLY Jesus Christ can be our Worshipful Master. And here his father was a pastor over a Christian congregation while serving the occult fraternity of Masons???

It will require our Lord Jesus to sort all that out, and He will, when He returns in our near future.

 

[Douggg]

Now you are making up LIES.

For I never said what day to expect Jesus' coming.

You clearly have lost your FALSE THEORY DEBATES, so now you default to PERSONAL ATTACK with your LIES.

May GOD rebuke you, in the Name of Jesus Christ! And rebuke is coming, get ready.

I did not say you gave a calendar date, but you wrote on the day that Jesus returns to stand on the Mt. of Olives. Is this not what you wrote in your post #6 ?

"Then immediately after the asleep saints are resurrected and Jesus descends from Heaven with them, those of us who remain still on earth are then "caught up" to Jesus and those asleep saints, on His way to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, per Zechariah 14, as written."