Apostle Paul Showed The Rapture Happens With The Future Resurrection

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

rebuilder 454

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2023
2,055
470
83
68
robstown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well, I am not a Futurist, nor a Preterist, nor an Historicist, nor an Amillennialist, nor a Dispensationalist, nor a Hyper-Dispensationalist, etc. I stay strictly with what is written in God's Word, and every one of those seminary categories I mention have major areas that leave God's written Word. Futurism in particular is allied with man's false Pre-tribulation Rapture theory, which is not written in God's Word. Jesus revealed His coming to gather His saints is AFTER the tribulation, and He was speaking of the "great tribulation" where He said that.

Nor do I pay attention to John Darby's Church Ages Dispensationalist theories.

And something I warn brethren about, which the seminaries love to do, is against man's propensity to create pop slogans and catchphrases, which most often go outside of God's written Word. Therefore, phrases in Revelation 1 like "shortly come to pass", "the time is at hand", etc., must be weighed in conjunction with the subject context in which it appears. That means just quoting those phrases in the style of a 'slogan' is going outside the context of God's Word. I mean, Apostles Paul, Peter, and James all used the phrase "last days" for their time, and that was how many years ago? So I'm not here to play seminary games.


Yet leaving the context of the "Where, Lord?" question Christ's disciples asked Him is exactly... what you did. You instead went all the way back up to the Luke 17:20-21 verses where the Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom would come, which is a completely different... subject! And by doing that you also left Jesus' answer to their question. So I don't know who you think... you're talking to here. I saw what you did with trying to 'change' the actual context of what Jesus' disciples asked Him in relation to the following... subject...

Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed;
the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him,
"Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV


Now if you pull my other leg, it plays Jingle Bells.
So we have;
Before the flood or prejudgment;
One taken the other one left.
we have peace time normal life and commerce going on with one taken the other one left and we have Noah in the ark immediately Before the Flood as Jesus pointed out.
And as Jesus pointed out, we have 50% of a group taken, prejudgment ,before the flood .

so that tribulation has not happened yet.
so sometime in the future we're going to have one taken one left and it'll be in peace time, with Commerce, and normal life.... before judgment. and so there's an additive there that they are taken to a place where when you see one thing you see the other .
(WHERE You See smoke you see fire.)
(WHERE you see a will you see attorneys )
(WHERE you see a car wreck you see lawyers)
NONE of those sayings have anything to do with car wrecks lawyers attorneys they're just sayings.
Where you see this, you see that....
IOW. Jesus gave them a riddle.
To Him it was an absurd question.
Why would he be telling the unGodly to watch and wait?
Why do people want to make the pre judgement removal of 50% of earths population into a "wicked taken" impossible dynamic??

False interpretation usually starts with an agenda.
You left out every fact I presented, and focused entirely on the riddle.
 

rebuilder 454

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2023
2,055
470
83
68
robstown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yeah it is, thinking with their 'fleshy' mind is one of the main problems many brethren have. Otherwise how men's false seminary doctrines turns pieces of Scripture into slogans, like the word "tribulation" and "the time is near", wouldn't work against them.


You actually think the EVENTS that Jesus gave with the final 3 Trumpet - Woe periods is dispensationalism? If you believe that, then it shows you have very little understanding in Christ's Book of Revelation.

Based on your own words, I already believe YOU are a Dispensationalist, for they love to use that church "ages" expression like you did.



Disagree with Jesus in Matthew 24:6 all you want, but the opposite of wars and rumors of wars is what He was pointing to when He said, "...but the end is not yet".

Also, in 1 Thess.5, Apostle Paul made it plain that the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" just prior to the "sudden destruction" event upon them on the "day of the Lord". Paul was pulling that from the Old Testament prophets, so that idea is not just The New Testament Scripture only.


Uh, what!?!

No! Jesus said we would hear of wars and rumors of wars, and that DOES mean they will be taking place, NOT some fiction that is dreamed up in your fleshy mind. I mean, you are funny! You even take a passage from Lord Jesus where He is giving a direct SIGN to be watching for, and you turn it into some allegorical story?

I'm done with your silly reasoning.
You and i disagree, but we respect each other.
Pinseeker messes with people.
Cunningly.
Not I... If you were to change that to "all the earth's inhabitants who are unbelievers," or "who do not find favor with the LORD," then yes... Seems to me everyone here would say that, but maybe not...


Well, God promised that "the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh" (Genesis 9:15), so... well, just speaking for myself, certainly not. So, that, and the fact that there will be no "rapture," in the sense of "removal" of the ones who find favor with the LORD, but rather protection and safe-keeping through the final Judgment...

You seem to "wonder" a lot of things...

Grace and peace to you, Rebuilder.
Yeah
Even wondering how to get respect and actual dialog out of a troll.
What a wonderment.
Insert smiley and blessings.
You snipe your opponent with insults ,and then bless them.

SMH.
Will await your next little silly insult.
You gotta be a teenager
 

Davidpt

Active Member
Dec 6, 2023
577
233
43
66
East Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Now I am wondering if yall think there will be an actual flood at the rapture?????

Talk about flinging insults, something you have charged others having done. And assuming they are guilty of having done that, here you are just as guilty as well.. As if some of us have never read Genesis 9 before, where God promised neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. So we are just going to make God out to be a liar in Genesis 9 by thinking there will an actual flood that occurs during the rapture. Or if not that, we lack reading comprehension altogether, thus do not understand what God meant in Genesis 9:11, therefore we think there might be an actual flood during when Matthew 24:39 is meaning.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
12,256
2,603
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So we have;
Before the flood or prejudgment;
One taken the other one left.
we have peace time normal life and commerce going on with one taken the other one left and we have Noah in the ark immediately Before the Flood as Jesus pointed out.
And as Jesus pointed out, we have 50% of a group taken, prejudgment ,before the flood .
Those are crazy... false assumptions, and have absolutely nothing to do with what I showed from actual Bible Scripture. If you had stayed with written Bible Scripture, you would not come up such crazy ideas.

The waters AS a flood out of the serpent's mouth of Rev.12 is an expression pointing to DECEPTION for the end of this world, and it is tied to the 3.5 year latter half of the Dan.9:27 final "one week".

The "Peace and safety" the deceived will be claiming, as per Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.5. That is what those will be saying just PRIOR to the "sudden destruction" upon them, on that "day of the Lord" that will come "as a thief in the night". That "day of the Lord" is the LAST DAY of this present world, and is when Jesus comes like He said, "Behold, I come as a thief" per Rev.16:15.

So you shouldn't mock... The Word of God as written. Mock me all you want, but don't mock The Word of God.

so that tribulation has not happened yet.
Nope, it has not. If it had, Jesus would be here on earth reigning over all nations, with all the wicked bowing to Him and His elect.

so sometime in the future we're going to have one taken one left and it'll be in peace time, with Commerce, and normal life.... before judgment. and so there's an additive there that they are taken to a place where when you see one thing you see the other .
That last phrase does not make sense at all.

During the coming "great tribulation" time, each soul will either believe on Jesus Christ, or they will not. No fence-riders, no atheists anymore either. One will either believe the coming pseudo-Christ is God, or they won't, because God's Word reveals the whole ... world... will be deceived by the "dragon", excepting Christ's elect (Revelation 13:4-8).

Those brethren who are 'deceived' will be TAKEN to where Satan's host of symbolic fowls will be. That means they will fall away to believe on the false-Messiah, thinking he is Jesus. That was... Lord Jesus' warning to His Church in the Matthew 24:23-26 Scripture about that false one, as also in 2 Thessalonians 2 by Apostle Paul, and in Revelation 13:11 forward by Lord Jesus again through His Apostle John. That coming false-Messiah will use great signs and wonders and miracles to deceive the whole world with, as written. You should read it sometime.

(WHERE You See smoke you see fire.)
(WHERE you see a will you see attorneys )
(WHERE you see a car wreck you see lawyers)
NONE of those sayings have anything to do with car wrecks lawyers attorneys they're just sayings.
Where you see this, you see that....
IOW. Jesus gave them a riddle.
To Him it was an absurd question.
Why would he be telling the unGodly to watch and wait?
Why do people want to make the pre judgement removal of 50% of earths population into a "wicked taken" impossible dynamic??

False interpretation usually starts with an agenda.
You left out every fact I presented, and focused entirely on the riddle.
Nothing but stupidity in the above statements.
 

PinSeeker

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2021
2,750
741
113
Nashville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I stay strictly with what is written in God's Word...
Good, well, that makes two of us. :)

I sense the tenor of this exchange to be taking a turn for the worse. I hope not, but it seems so...

Yet leaving the context of the "Where, Lord?" question Christ's disciples asked Him is exactly... what you did.
Hm, well, no... and yes...

We disagree, I gather, on what the disciples are actually asking that question in reference to. That disagreement does not amount to either one of us purposely "leaving the context." I'm not sure if that's what you are implying or not, but it doesn't. However, regardless whether your thinking on this is correct or mine, the fact still is that Christ doesn't answer their question directly, but rather with his answer redirects it. And this is not unprecedented; He does so on other occasions documented in the gospels.

You instead went all the way back up to the Luke 17:20-21 verses where the Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom would come, which is a completely different... subject!
I believe you to be mistaken on that, Davy.

And by doing that you also left Jesus' answer to their question. I saw what you did with trying to 'change' the actual context of what Jesus' disciples asked Him in relation to the following... subject...
I didn't do any such thing, but I understand why you think I did. Yeah, so now it seems you're accusing me of purposefully changing Jesus's actual context to fit some kind of narrative of my own, which is tantamount to accusing me of dishonesty... and breaking the eighth commandment.

I saw what you did with trying to 'change' the actual context of what Jesus' disciples asked Him in relation to...
I get that you think I did, for sure; I anticipated that.


Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed;
the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him,
"Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV


Now if you pull my other leg, it plays Jingle Bells.
Hmmm...

...thinking with their 'fleshy' mind is one of the main problems many brethren have.
All people have that problem, Davy. It's the human condition. We're all sinners, even those of us who have been redeemed.

You actually think the EVENTS that Jesus gave with the final 3 Trumpet - Woe periods is dispensationalism?
No. I think your understanding of the events of Revelation is in accordance with your dispensational understanding of Scripture; dispensationalism is a theological framework that many have in interpreting Scripture and is distinguished from covenant theology. The two are opposed to each other in many important ways ~ not "adversarial," but differing in important ways. Unfortunately, though, people can reflexively get into adversarial positions/mindsets.

Based on your own words, I already believe YOU are a Dispensationalist, for they love to use that church "ages" expression like you did.
Absolutely not. I am very Covenantal in my theology, so, actually, what you say here is encouraging, really.

Disagree with Jesus in Matthew 24:6 all you want...
I don't, of course. And neither do you, I'm sure. But I do disagree with your take on it, though.

...the opposite of wars and rumors of wars is what He was pointing to when He said, "...but the end is not yet".
What you say is not an invalid understanding, Davy... or unreasonable, or illogical. However, just generally speaking, many things can be said but then understood (or misunderstood) by hearers of those things in different ways. So validity and accuracy are two different things; it is very possible for understandings to be valid, reasonable, and logical but yet still be inaccurate. And to that point, though you may believe it to be inaccurate, I think you have to say that the understanding that the wars and rumors of war not being in and of themselves signs that the end is upon is a valid, reasonable, logical understanding of His comment in Matthew 24:6.

Also, in 1 Thess.5, Apostle Paul made it plain that the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" just prior to the "sudden destruction" event upon them on the "day of the Lord". Paul was pulling that from the Old Testament prophets, so that idea is not just The New Testament Scripture only.


Uh, what!?!
Okay, I'm not laughing at you with this, so don't take it that way, but... LOL. :) Yes, Paul is referencing the prophets; he does that extensively throughout all his letters, and in this case Amos, Isaiah, Joel, Obadiah, Malachi, and Jeremiah (and possibly others). Here's the passage in question:

"Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober" (1 Thessalonians 5:1-6).

I think you'll agree with me that this letter is written by Paul to reassure the believers in Thessalonica of their security in the Lord even unto the end. And it seems you agree with me that in mentioning people saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction coming upon them and them not escaping, he is there speaking of unbelievers. But in their saying "there is peace and security," I believe Paul to be referring to Jeremiah 6:14 and Jeremiah 8:11 ("(t)hey have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace"), where similar language is used of unbelievers having a delusional sense of immunity from divine wrath.

No! Jesus said we would hear of wars and rumors of wars, and that DOES mean they will be taking place,
Hmm... Okay, so I agree with you here, so maybe I misunderstood you before. I thought, from your comment before, that your take on Jesus's saying we would hear of wars and rumors of wars, that even before the end it would really be a time of peace, which would imply that no wars are actually taking place in that time. You did say before (and I quote):

"the END (tribulation time)... will not be a time of war and rumors of war, which means a time of peace."

And now you seem to refuting that. I might ask you to clarify these things. But even aside from that, just this statement I quoted here ~ as I said ~ seems to me contradictory. You're saying, in no uncertain terms (it seems), that the tribulation time will be a time of peace, and, well, in any time of tribulation, by definition, there is not peace, but... tribulation. Feel free to clarify.

NOT some fiction that is dreamed up in your fleshy mind. I mean, you are funny!
Hmmm... Seems I was right about the tenor of this conversation...

You even take a passage from Lord Jesus where He is giving a direct SIGN to be watching for, and you turn it into some allegorical story?
This is very often the (misdirected) accusation (so I expected it at some point), but no. I would certainly agree that wars and rumors of wars (among other things) are signs that the end is coming ~ and has been a visible and audible sign of such ever since He spoke those words.

I'm done with your silly reasoning.
Well, neither of us is "silly." To call my reasoning "silly" is... silly. :) But fair enough.

Grace and peace to you.
 
Last edited:

rebuilder 454

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2023
2,055
470
83
68
robstown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Talk about flinging insults, something you have charged others having done. And assuming they are guilty of having done that, here you are just as guilty as well.. As if some of us have never read Genesis 9 before, where God promised neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. So we are just going to make God out to be a liar in Genesis 9 by thinking there will an actual flood that occurs during the rapture. Or if not that, we lack reading comprehension altogether, thus do not understand what God meant in Genesis 9:11, therefore we think there might be an actual flood during when Matthew 24:39 is meaning.
You miss the point.
If we can not discern "before the flood", and in that omission, go on to "discern" Jesus's analogy as " we are not removed but go THROUGH THE FLOOD, and there is no setting at all as " before the flood, peacetime, commerce, and normal life" , then what is stopping a FURTHER misrepresentstion?????
See how it works???
If I REFRAME "before the flood" and make it into "there is no such setting of before the flood" , we must not see any of that, but lets just focus on the flood, ...
THEN LETS MAGNIFY THE FLOOD...FURTHER... into " there will be a flood at the second coming"

But the elephant in the room is not me applying further nonsense into the omitters that ignore the setting of "before the flood", it is those that have some strange hope that Jesus was mistaken in vividly expressing 2 separate comings.
 

rebuilder 454

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2023
2,055
470
83
68
robstown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Davy QUOTE
"Nothing but stupidity in the above statements"

SMH
Pure personal attacks.
Nothing of substance
What a shame
Hard to get any conversation of substance with a the disrespect.
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
1,258
83
48
75
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The waters AS a flood out of the serpent's mouth of Rev.12 is an expression pointing to DECEPTION for the end of this world, and it is tied to the 3.5 year latter half of the Dan.9:27 final "one week".
Davy,

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.


Those who had fled to the wilderness, the mountains of Israel, will be protected from a flood of military attempts to get to them; by supranational means such as landslides and earthquakes from God, so the earth in that manner helps to suppress those military attempts.
 
Last edited:

PinSeeker

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2021
2,750
741
113
Nashville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Pinseeker messes with people.
Cunningly.
Not at all.

Yeah
Even wondering how to get respect and actual dialog out of a troll.
What a wonderment.
Insert smiley and blessings.
You snipe your opponent with insults ,and then bless them.
...he says, after repeatedly ~ with no provocation ~ sniping and insulting (except with no blessing). Disagreement shouldn't be miscast as disrespect. I have not "sniped" or disrespected or insulted anyone here. I have taken a lot of those things, though, but that's okay, I can certainly handle it.

You gotta be a teenager
No, just a sinner, which we all are, and lacking in grace, which seems to be heavily slanted in your direction, Rebuilder. And, while that may be insulting to you, it's not an insult, and not intended as such.

Grace and peace to you.
 

rebuilder 454

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2023
2,055
470
83
68
robstown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So we have;
Before the flood or prejudgment;
One taken the other one left.
we have peace time normal life and commerce going on with one taken the other one left and we have Noah in the ark immediately Before the Flood as Jesus pointed out.
And as Jesus pointed out, we have 50% of a group taken, prejudgment ,before the flood .
To all those facts Davy replies;
"""Those are crazy... false assumptions, and have absolutely nothing to do with what I showed from actual Bible Scripture. If you had stayed with written Bible Scripture, you would not come up such crazy ideas."""

I guess the bible is wrong
SMH
Wow
 

rebuilder 454

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2023
2,055
470
83
68
robstown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not at all.


...he says, after repeatedly ~ with no provocation ~ sniping and insulting (except with no blessing). Disagreement shouldn't be miscast as disrespect. I have not "sniped" or disrespected or insulted anyone here. I have taken a lot of those things, though, but that's okay, I can certainly handle it.


No, just a sinner, which we all are, and lacking in grace, which seems to be heavily slanted in your direction, Rebuilder. And, while that may be insulting to you, it's not an insult, and not intended as such.

Grace and peace to you.
Glad such a misguided person ,as you claim to be, can police others while giving " blessings" , and cunning insults, and "peace" ,out of the other side of your mouth.

IOW YOU PLAY LITTLE GAMES.
 

rebuilder 454

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2023
2,055
470
83
68
robstown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Talk about flinging insults, something you have charged others having done. And assuming they are guilty of having done that, here you are just as guilty as well.. As if some of us have never read Genesis 9 before, where God promised neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. So we are just going to make God out to be a liar in Genesis 9 by thinking there will an actual flood that occurs during the rapture. Or if not that, we lack reading comprehension altogether, thus do not understand what God meant in Genesis 9:11, therefore we think there might be an actual flood during when Matthew 24:39 is meaning.
I PUSH BACK.
I let them set the bar.
If they want to get into insults then lets go.
But show me anywhere I call people names and where I initiate any such silliness.
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
1,258
83
48
75
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The seals give an overview of the events in Revelation covering the 7 years prior to Jesus's Second Coming.

The saying of peace and safety will be due to the world thinking it has entered the messianic age. But it will be a false messianic age, shattered when the Antichrist commits the ToD act of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God.

On my timeline chart, I show the false messianic age and the peace and safety mentality during it.



the seven seals f.jpg
 

PinSeeker

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2021
2,750
741
113
Nashville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Glad such a misguided person ,as you claim to be...
Um, I claim to be a misguided person? Really? LOL! Isn't that your claim, Rebuilder?

Glad such a misguided person... can police others while giving " blessings" , and cunning insults, and "peace" ,out of the other side of your mouth.
And so it continues... There's a lot of "policing" going on in this forum, and you're just as guilty of that as anyone. "Cunning insults"... I'd generally like to know even one insult I've allegedly thrown at you... or anyone else for that matter. And honestly, for you to say these things is just a bit hypocritical...

Rebuilder, you just don't like to be disagreed with, which is understandable. But the way that dislike manifests itself is not.

IOW YOU PLAY LITTLE GAMES.
Not at all. I've been very forthcoming and forthright throughout this exchange... with everyone.

Grace and peace to you, Rebuilder.
 
Last edited:

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
12,256
2,603
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Good, well, that makes two of us. :)
No it doesn't, because you have already revealed your denial of Christ's meaning in the Matt.24:6 verse, which points to many other... Bible Scriptures about the very end will be a time of 'peace', and NOT all out war.

I sense the tenor of this exchange to be taking a turn for the worse. I hope not, but it seems so...
I'm surprised you are just now figuring that out, because surely you have already before experienced disgust from others because of some of your ideas that completely leave... Bible Scripture.

Hm, well, no... and yes...

We disagree, I gather, on what the disciples are actually asking that question in reference to. That disagreement does not amount to either one of us purposely "leaving the context." I'm not sure if that's what you are implying or not, but it doesn't. However, regardless whether your thinking on this is correct or mine, the fact still is that Christ doesn't answer their question directly, but rather with his answer redirects it. And this is not unprecedented; He does so on other occasions documented in the gospels.
No, you completely left... the context of the Luke 17:35-37 subject, which is about Jesus saying about the two women grinding, one taken and the other left, two men in one bed, one taken and the other left. And you want me to believe you stay with Bible Scripture as written? What a joke!

Oh, I get you now, you think the Phrarisees of asking Jesus about the kingdom is the same subject as the two men in one bed, one TAKEN and the other left! Yeah, that's your ticket! And what a stupid one it is.

I don't have time for your ignorance and lack of understanding basic English grammar.
 

PinSeeker

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2021
2,750
741
113
Nashville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No it doesn't, because you have already revealed your denial of Christ's meaning in the Matt.24:6 verse, which points to many other... Bible Scriptures about the very end will be a time of 'peace', and NOT all out war.
Certainly, you're welcome to your opinion... of me and anything else. But my respect for God's Word is very much the same as yours. We disagree on these particular passages, that's all.

I'm surprised you are just now figuring that out, because surely you have already before experienced disgust from others because of some of your ideas that completely leave... Bible Scripture.
Well, I'm not "just now figuring that out," actually. We've had exchanges before, and I knew you'd take it south in short order. Rebuilder, too. That seems to be, at least here, your modus operandi.

No, you completely left... the context of the Luke 17:35-37 subject...
Again, you think so, I get that (several times now), but no.

...which is about Jesus saying about the two women grinding, one taken and the other left, two men in one bed, one taken and the other left.
That's... not really his subject, Davy. By talking about the two women, one taken and the other left, and two men, one taken and the other left, He's making a point about His subject. Depending on who you ask, the two answers given as to what His immediate subject is there are, a) the "rapture," and b) the final judgment. And that takes us back to one of the first points I made in this thread, that the people who would answer (a) would say that the people taken are believers, which is incorrect. Jesus refers to Noah's flood and to Sodom and Gomorrah in those passages (Matthew 24 and Luke 17), and the people taken (swept away, destroyed) in both those events are unbelievers, the unrighteous, those subjected to God's judgment and wrath. Obviously, I would answer b), because that is what fits the context of what Jesus is saying there.

But still, the larger context is the coming of God's Kingdom, which I hope we would all agree on; more on that below...

And you want me to believe you stay with Bible Scripture as written? What a joke!
I'd like you to have a little grace about you in this discussion; that would be nice. But alas...

Oh, I get you now, you think the Phrarisees of asking Jesus about the kingdom is the same subject as the two men in one bed, one TAKEN and the other left! Yeah, that's your ticket! And what a stupid one it is. I don't have time for your ignorance and lack of understanding basic English grammar.
Jesus tells the Pharisees ~ in answer to their question about when the kingdom of God would come ~ that "(t)he kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed," right? I mean, that's Luke 17:20 verbatim. So I can't be accused of "not staying with Scripture" ~ at least not yet... <chuckle> Then he turns to His disciples, and He's instructing them regarding the same thing; they are there and certainly hear the Pharisees' question and Jesus's answer to them. And it's what we might call a teaching moment. He is not talking to them about something completely different, but rather instructing them, because they have ears to hear. And you know what He tells His disciples: He's telling them not to be misled, and says it ~ the coming of the Kingdom ~ will be "Just as it was in the days of Noah..." and also "...in the days of Lot... So will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed." So, this statement of yours...

"Yet leaving the context of the "Where, Lord?" question Christ's disciples asked Him is exactly... what you did. You instead went all the way back up to the Luke 17:20-21 verses where the Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom would come, which is a completely different... subject!"​

...is demonstrably and undeniably wrong. Well... certainly you can deny it, but not with any veracity... or credibility. You know, not to be insulting or disparaging, but I do agree that there is some ignorance going on here... and some lack of understanding... <chuckle> But yes, concerning the same thing, he addresses two groups of people in very different ways. But He is obviously not talking about something "totally different" from one group to the next.

Grace and peace to you, Davy.
 
Last edited:

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
12,256
2,603
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Brethren in Christ, I refuse to give subjection even one minute to these who here that have no problem twisting the written Bible Scripture. The difference between those who are simply regurgitating what their deceived preacher told them is one thing, but that is different from those who blatantly lie in twisting the Bible Scripture to completely mean something else.

Here is an example of those who do that blatant, on purpose, twisting of Scripture...

In the below Bible Scripture, Lord Jesus Christ declared that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation of those days, referring to the time of "great tribulation". But some, even here, instead lie, and say Jesus comes to gather His Church PRIOR to the below tribulation time.

Matt 24:29-31
29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

In that above Matthew 24 version, Jesus showed His angels will gather His elect there "from one end of heaven to the other". And Jesus showed emphatically that will happen "Immediately after the tribulation of those days". That is about Jesus' gathering of the 'asleep' saints after they are resurrected on the last day, and He brings them with Him like Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16.

Then in the Mark 13:24-27 version of the above Scripture, Jesus showed that His angels will gather those of His that are still alive on earth, from the earth, just like Paul also taught in the 1 Thessalonians 4:17 verse.

So if you hear anyone 'claiming' to be a Christian disagreeing with Jesus and Apostle Paul on that ABOVE matter as written, then run, get away from that deceiver, for that one has a devil!
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,973
8,136
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the day of Christ's future coming and gathering of His faithful Church...

1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.


If we believe that Lord Jesus rose from the dead, then also we should believe that Jesus will bring the dead 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes. That is what Paul is saying there.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
I get you will disagree. But to me the following 1 Corinthians 11:26-34 discerning of the Lord’s body; speaks of not preventing those weak and sickly among you from eating that they may be strengthened in Christ…but instead those hungry and thirsty are pushed out of the way and there are those who eat unto drunkenness and those who go away from the Lords table hungry. “You do show the Lord’d death until He comes”? No? Many there are among you who are weak and sickly and do sleep. He told the Pharisees not only do they not enter but the prevent others trying to “awake, awake, wake up unto righteousness and the Lord will give you Light” but instead they feared, “all will believe on this Son of God -and it will take away our positions and status as high men!” There is still a “not discerning the Lord’s body today” saying “we have Jesus” “come and see” but wait for the response… “did you actually think I cared about you state or well being? Well I don’t.” Yet those strong ought not prevent those who weak, but instead the strong ought to support the weak. Or those that have fallen asleep. Romans 13:11-12 Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. [12] The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.




1 Corinthians 11:26-34 For as often as you eat this bread, and drink this cup, you do show the Lord's death till he come. [27] Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. [29] For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. [30] For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. [31] For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. [32] But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. [33] Wherefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, tarry one for another. [34] And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that you come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
 
Last edited:

rebuilder 454

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2023
2,055
470
83
68
robstown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Brethren in Christ, I refuse to give subjection even one minute to these who here that have no problem twisting the written Bible Scripture. The difference between those who are simply regurgitating what their deceived preacher told them is one thing, but that is different from those who blatantly lie in twisting the Bible Scripture to completely mean something else.

Here is an example of those who do that blatant, on purpose, twisting of Scripture...

In the below Bible Scripture, Lord Jesus Christ declared that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation of those days, referring to the time of "great tribulation". But some, even here, instead lie, and say Jesus comes to gather His Church PRIOR to the below tribulation time.

Matt 24:29-31
29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

In that above Matthew 24 version, Jesus showed His angels will gather His elect there "from one end of heaven to the other". And Jesus showed emphatically that will happen "Immediately after the tribulation of those days". That is about Jesus' gathering of the 'asleep' saints after they are resurrected on the last day, and He brings them with Him like Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16.

Then in the Mark 13:24-27 version of the above Scripture, Jesus showed that His angels will gather those of His that are still alive on earth, from the earth, just like Paul also taught in the 1 Thessalonians 4:17 verse.

So if you hear anyone 'claiming' to be a Christian disagreeing with Jesus and Apostle Paul on that ABOVE matter as written, then run, get away from that deceiver, for that one has a devil!
Lol
Omitting still????
You were shown rev14:14 , what, 20 times?
Mat 24:38 30 times????
At this point can anyone take you seriously.
That hope you place in omission only works in postribber change the bible circles.
 

rebuilder 454

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2023
2,055
470
83
68
robstown
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Brethren in Christ, I refuse to give subjection even one minute to these who here that have no problem twisting the written Bible Scripture. The difference between those who are simply regurgitating what their deceived preacher told them is one thing, but that is different from those who blatantly lie in twisting the Bible Scripture to completely mean something else.

Here is an example of those who do that blatant, on purpose, twisting of Scripture...

In the below Bible Scripture, Lord Jesus Christ declared that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation of those days, referring to the time of "great tribulation". But some, even here, instead lie, and say Jesus comes to gather His Church PRIOR to the below tribulation time.

Matt 24:29-31
29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

In that above Matthew 24 version, Jesus showed His angels will gather His elect there "from one end of heaven to the other". And Jesus showed emphatically that will happen "Immediately after the tribulation of those days". That is about Jesus' gathering of the 'asleep' saints after they are resurrected on the last day, and He brings them with Him like Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16.

Then in the Mark 13:24-27 version of the above Scripture, Jesus showed that His angels will gather those of His that are still alive on earth, from the earth, just like Paul also taught in the 1 Thessalonians 4:17 verse.

So if you hear anyone 'claiming' to be a Christian disagreeing with Jesus and Apostle Paul on that ABOVE matter as written, then run, get away from that deceiver, for that one has a devil!
Lol.
You just affirmed Jesus does not do any GATHERING postrib....uh..hello..angels gather from heaven.
We ALL AGREE HE returns postrib and angels gather from heaven as you keep futilely repeating.
Psssst...that aint the rapture as you keep verifying.
That you for actually promoting a pretrib gathering