Archaeological proof of Christ's AD 70 bodily return

[3 Resurrections]

Can we briefly deviate from the OP for a moment? What are some of the archaeological proofs? I had a discussion with someone and he pointed out James’ ossuary as evidence that James wasn’t bodily resurrected in 70AD, although that ossuary is suspect of being a forgery.

Here you go...

As for your discussion with the other person concerning the James ossuary that somehow they thought proved James wasn't bodily resurrected - that ossuary is empty. Many, but not all of the ossuaries retrieved for study are found empty. Part of the reason for that could very well be that those ossuaries were confiscated by thieves for sale on the black market, who inadvertently dumped the contents as being considered unimportant before those ossuaries eventually passed into official hands. But that isn't the only reason why many are found empty.

Take for example the Caiaphas family tomb, first discovered intact in the Peace Forest section of Jerusalem. There were 12 ossuaries inside. Six of these ossuaries, (including the Caiaphas ossuary), had bones within, but not the others. Blame was placed on "grave-robbers" for the ossuaries which were opened and empty. But this does not make sense - especially for an intact family tomb. Why would the most ornate of the 12 ossuaries (the one with Caiaphas' name on it) be one that the supposed "grave-robbers" paid no attention to? Wouldn't those supposed "grave-robbers" have opened ALL of the ossuaries in their hunt for relics? Why leave the elaborately-carved Caiaphas ossuary alone? I maintain that, even among the Caiaphas family which was opposed to Christ, there had been individual members who had been true children of God during their lifetime - and whose mortal remains were bodily resurrected at Christ's AD 70 return. Six empty ossuaries in this intact Caiaphas tomb speak volumes.

Let's also consider the famous Hebron "cave of Machpelah", in which Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebekah, Jacob and Leah were all buried. These were all children of faith. There is the traditional site today which is called the "cave of Machpelah" in Hebron, but the site doesn't match at all with the location we have described in Scripture for this cave. I believe the true location was discovered by Wyatt's team. This "cave of Machpelah" was entered and examined, and no bones whatever were found within this cave - only a large flat single bowl which more than likely was used for the preparation of spices to anoint the dead. One would think that at the very least Jacob's mummified body would still have some vestiges remaining for examination. But no. The burial cave with its three double niches for three pairs of bodies is completely empty. Again, I maintain that the six righteous occupants of this burial cave were bodily-resurrected in AD 70 and taken to heaven with the bodily-returning Christ.

As proof that Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives in AD 70, we can examine the description of this predicted return in Zechariah 14:4-5 IN THE LXX - not in the other translations which err in translating some of the language. This text does NOT teach that people would "flee" through a valley created by the Lord standing on the Mount of Olives. Wrong translation.

The better LXX translation reads as follows for Zech. 14:4-5: "And his feet shall stand in that day on the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave asunder, half of it toward the east and the west, a very great division; and half the mountain shall lean to the north, and half of it to the south. And the valley of my mountains shall be CLOSED UP, and the valley of the mountains shall be joined on to Jasod, and shall be BLOCKED UP as it was blocked up in the days of the earthquake, in the days of Ozias king of Juda; and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with him."

This is describing an earthquake at the Mount of Olives location when Christ returns, with the crest of the Mount of Olives breaking apart and "leaning" or falling downhill in all directions - north, south, east, and west. This resulting landslide rubble falling downhill would "CLOSE UP" or "BLOCK UP" the Kidron Valley as far as the "Jasod" location. This is the "Azal" location which the KJV writes about, which actually shows up on today's maps as the "Wadi Yasul", just off the far southeastern corner of Jerusalem's walls. Nobody was going to "flee" through this valley at Christ's bodily return, because it was going to be "blocked up" or "closed up" when Christ set foot on the Mount of Olives at that second coming return.

Archaeologists have examined the top layers which currently fill the bed of the Kidron Valley, and have discovered that there is a 40' layer which has been deposited there around the AD 70 time frame, and with yet another layer below that one (deposited in King Uzziah's days during that earthquake). This topmost 40' layer has moved the deepest part of the bed of the Kidron Valley about 70' further away from the walls of Jerusalem than it was in Christ's days. In other words, the current-day Mount of Olives isn't nearly as steep as it used to be in Christ's days, because the top of the Mount of Olives broke apart at Christ's bodily return in AD 70, with all that landslide rubble falling downhill to "close up" the Kidron Valley and "block it up" as far as the Azal location.

And since we know that this earthquake at Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives was to be accompanied by a resurrection, and those resurrected ones being caught up together with Him to meet the Lord in the air to return to heaven with Him, this dates Christ's return to the date of that topmost earthquake rubble layer. He left His "calling card" of landslide rubble lying in the Kidron Valley back then as proof that He came exactly where and when He was predicted to bodily return.

Daniel 12:11-13 had predicted this resurrection, and he dated it to arrive 1,335 days after those two predicted events would take place during the same season of time. Those two events in Daniel 12:11 occurred in AD 66, with the end of the 1,335th day countdown falling on AD 70's Pentecost day in Jerusalem - the date of Christ's second coming return.

We should also realize the significance of the eastern gate of the temple which Ezekiel 46 described. For that rebuilt temple constructed at Zerubbabel's directions, the people of Israel in the post-exilic return were to worship as they stood facing that eastern gate in the Sabbaths and the new moons (Ez. 46:1-3). This gate was only for the "prince" of the people to enter AND LEAVE by that gate (Ez. 46:8). The significance of the people of Israel worshipping at that particular location and at those particular times was to symbolize both the location and time for where and when "Messiah the Prince" would both enter AND LEAVE this world to return to heaven along with the bodily-resurrected saints.

NOTE: Once that Jerusalem temple was torn down in September of AD 70, that eastern gate of the temple was also torn down - because by then, the significance of that eastern gate's existence would have been fulfilled by Christ having bodily returned to the Mount of Olives location AND LEFT from that eastern side of Jerusalem's walls. There would be no more reason for that temple and its eastern gate to exist, once it had fulfilled its intended purpose.

 

[grafted branch]

Here you go...

As for your discussion with the other person concerning the James ossuary that somehow they thought proved James wasn't bodily resurrected - that ossuary is empty. Many, but not all of the ossuaries retrieved for study are found empty. Part of the reason for that could very well be that those ossuaries were confiscated by thieves for sale on the black market, who inadvertently dumped the contents as being considered unimportant before those ossuaries eventually passed into official hands. But that isn't the only reason why many are found empty.

Take for example the Caiphas family tomb, first discovered intact in the Peace Forest section of Jerusalem. There were 12 ossuaries inside. Six of these ossuaries, (including the Caiphas ossuary), had bones within, but not the others. Blame was placed on "grave-robbers" for the ossuaries which were opened and empty. But this does not make sense - especially for an intact family tomb. Why would the most ornate of the 12 ossuaries (the one with Caiphas' name on it) be one that the supposed "grave-robbers" paid no attention to? Wouldn't those supposed "grave-robbers" have opened ALL of the ossuaries in their hunt for relics? Why leave the elaborately-carved Caiphas ossuary alone? I maintain that, even among the Caiphas family which was opposed to Christ, there had been individual members who had been true children of God during their lifetime - and whose mortal remains were bodily resurrected at Christ's AD 70 return. Six empty ossuaries in this intact Caiphas tomb speak volumes.

Let's also consider the famous Hebron "cave of Machpelah", in which Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebekah, Jacob and Leah were all buried. These were all children of faith. There is the traditional site today which is called the "cave of Machpelah" in Hebron, but the site doesn't match at all with the location we have described in Scripture for this cave. I believe the true location was discovered by Wyatt's team. This "cave of Machpelah" was entered and examined, and no bones whatever were found within this cave - only a large flat single bowl which more than likely was used for the preparation of spices to anoint the dead. One would think that at the very least Jacob's mummified body would still have some vestiges remaining for examination. But no. The burial cave with its three double niches for three pairs of bodies is completely empty. Again, I maintain that the six righteous occupants of this burial cave were bodily-resurrected in AD 70 and taken to heaven with the bodily-returning Christ.

As proof that Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives in AD 70, we can examine the description of this predicted return in Zechariah 14:4-5 IN THE LXX - not in the other translations which err in translating some of the language. This text does NOT teach that people would "flee" through a valley created by the Lord standing on the Mount of Olives. Wrong translation.

The better LXX translation reads as follows for Zech. 14:4-5: "And his feet shall stand in that day on the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave asunder, half of it toward the east and the west, a very great division; and half the mountain shall lean to the north, and half of it to the south. And the valley of my mountains shall be CLOSED UP, and the valley of the mountains shall be joined on to Jasod, and shall be BLOCKED UP as it was blocked up in the days of the earthquake, in the days of Ozias king of Juda; and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with him."

This is describing an earthquake at the Mount of Olives location when Christ returns, with the crest of the Mount of Olives breaking apart and "leaning" or falling downhill in all directions - north, south, east, and west. This resulting landslide rubble falling downhill would "CLOSE UP" or "BLOCK UP" the Kidron Valley as far as the "Jasod" location. This is the "Azal" location which the KJV writes about, which actually shows up on today's maps as the "Wadi Yasul", just off the far southeastern corner of Jerusalem's walls. Nobody was going to "flee" through this valley at Christ's bodily return, because it was going to be "blocked up" or "closed up" when Christ set foot on the Mount of Olives at that second coming return.

Archaeologists have examined the top layers which currently fill the bed of the Kidron Valley, and have discovered that there is a 40' layer which has been deposited there around the AD 70 time frame, and with yet another layer below that one (deposited in King Uzziah's days during that earthquake). This topmost 40' layer has moved the deepest part of the bed of the Kidron Valley about 70' further away from the walls of Jerusalem than it was in Christ's days. In other words, the current-day Mount of Olives isn't nearly as steep as it used to be in Christ's days, because the top of the Mount of Olives broke apart at Christ's bodily return in AD 70, with all that landslide rubble falling downhill to "close up" the Kidron Valley and "block it up" as far as the Azal location.

And since we know that this earthquake at Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives was to be accompanied by a resurrection, and those resurrected ones being caught up together with Him to meet the Lord in the air to return to heaven with Him, this dates Christ's return to the date of that topmost earthquake rubble layer. He left His "calling card" of landslide rubble lying in the Kidron Valley back then as proof that He came exactly where and when He was predicted to bodily return.

Daniel 12:11-13 had predicted this resurrection, and he dated it to arrive 1,335 days after those two predicted events would take place during the same season of time. Those two events in Daniel 12:11 occurred in AD 66, with the end of the 1,335th day countdown falling on AD 70's Pentecost day in Jerusalem - the date of Christ's second coming return.

We should also realize the significance of the eastern gate of the temple which Ezekiel 46 described. For that rebuilt temple constructed at Zerubbabel's directions, the people of Israel in the post-exilic return were to worship as they stood facing that eastern gate in the Sabbaths and the new moons (Ez. 46:1-3). This gate was only for the "prince" of the people to enter AND LEAVE by that gate (Ez. 46:8). The significance of the people of Israel worshipping at that particular location and at those particular times was to symbolize both the location and time for where and when "Messiah the Prince" would both enter AND LEAVE this world to return to heaven along with the bodily-resurrected saints.

NOTE: Once that Jerusalem temple was torn down in September of AD 70, that eastern gate of the temple was also torn down - because by then, the significance of that eastern gate's existence would have been fulfilled by Christ having bodily returned to the Mount of Olives location AND LEFT from that eastern side of Jerusalem's walls. There would be no more reason for that temple and its eastern gate to exist, once it had fulfilled its intended purpose.

Thanks for taking the time to create this thread. I can’t argue against anything you said.

I guess unless someone can produce reasonable evidence of human remains of a believer who died before 70AD, then, as you point out, the lack of physical human remains points us in the direction of there being a resurrection.

 

[Behold]

Preterism is another false Doctrine.
The Devil has a lot of these up and running.
Avoid people who are deceived by it and want to deceive you with it.

 

[grafted branch]

Preterism is another false Doctrine.
The Devil has a lot of these up and running.
Avoid people who are deceived by it and want to deceive you with it.

Well, this thread is about archaeological evidence. Do you know of any archaeological evidence that suggests there wasn’t a resurrection or coming in 70AD?

 

[3 Resurrections]

I guess unless someone can produce reasonable evidence of human remains of a believer who died before 70AD, then, as you point out, the lack of physical human remains points us in the direction of there being a resurrection.

We do have today the human remains of those who died before AD 70 still in the ground (like mummies, etc.) But if it can be proved that they died before AD 70, they have to be the bodies of the wicked dead who were left to "perish" in the grave. This was the "resurrection to damnation" or "the resurrection to destruction" that Christ spoke about for the fate of those who were not children of God.

Contrary to the fate of the wicked, believers do NOT perish, but have eternal life of both body and soul granted to them. The souls of the wicked dead (not their resurrected bodies) stand before God in a resurrection of condemnation. By not having the covering of Christ's righteousness, their souls cannot survive such an experience of exposure to God's utter holiness. Their mortal remains are left to perish in the grave, and their soul likewise perishes in judgment. We are told to fear Him who, after death, has the power to destroy both body and soul in Hell (Matt. 10:28).

 

[3 Resurrections]

Preterism is another false Doctrine.
The Devil has a lot of these up and running.
Avoid people who are deceived by it and want to deceive you with it.

By now I am used to ad hominem attacks such as this one, which do not at all address the evidence brought forth. It's an empty debate tactic.

 

[Behold]

Well, this thread is about archaeological evidence. Do you know of any archaeological evidence that suggests there wasn’t a resurrection or coming in 70AD?

John didnt mention it .

He was alive for about 3 decades after AD 70..........nearly 30 yrs.

Do you think He would have missed Jesus's 2nd Coming?

Do you think he forgot to show up, or maybe Jesus forgot to invite him?

So, there is a reason that 30 Yrs after AD 70......John never wrote a sentence about the "return", in all those years.
And that reason?
It never happened YET.

What did happen?

People who get lost in Theological Rabbit Trails invent a lot of Theological Junk, like Preterism .

 

[grafted branch]

We do have today the human remains of those who died before AD 70 still in the ground (like mummies, etc.) But if it can be proved that they died before AD 70, they have to be the bodies of the wicked dead who were left to "perish" in the grave. This was the "resurrection to damnation" or "the resurrection to destruction" that Christ spoke about for the fate of those who were not children of God.

Contrary to the fate of the wicked, believers do NOT perish, but have eternal life of both body and soul granted to them. The souls of the wicked dead (not their resurrected bodies) stand before God in a resurrection of condemnation. By not having the covering of Christ's righteousness, their souls cannot survive such an experience of exposure to God's utter holiness. Their mortal remains are left to perish in the grave, and their soul likewise perishes in judgment. We are told to fear Him who, after death, has the power to destroy both body and soul in Hell (Matt. 10:28).

Yes, and the Jews are meticulous about their dead. It would seem that there would be a good probability of finding some human remains of a patriarch if they existed. They knew where David’s sepulcher was in Acts 2:29.

 

[3 Resurrections]

John didnt mention it .

He was alive for about 3 decades after AD 70..........nearly 30 yrs.

Revelation was written by John somewhere between late AD 59 and early AD 60, by all the internal evidence of datable events in Revelation itself. But the author of Revelation left this planet along with the rest of the bodily-resurrected saints in AD 70. Because that author of Revelation was not John the son of Zebedee, but the "disciple whom Jesus loved", the resurrected Lazarus. This man Lazarus went by several aliases in order to protect Mary (Christ's mother) from the Jewish religious leaders. Christ put His mother into Lazarus's care from that hour of His crucifixion onward. John Eleazar / Lazarus "tarried" until Jesus came, just as Christ predicted that this beloved disciple would do (John 21:22).

When you think of "John", you and those such as Irenaeus are really thinking of John Mark, sister's son to Barnabas, who ministered in the church AFTER AD 70.

There were no Christian eye-witnesses of Christ's return, because they obeyed Christ's directive to "flee to the mountains" when they first saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies back in AD 66. By doing this, there was a believing remnant of saints who could rebuild the Christian churches after the AD 70 return of Christ. The numbers of the Christian community had been "worn out" by persecution in those years approaching Christ's AD 70 bodily return, because God had wanted to maximize the number of martyred saints who could participate in the bodily resurrection in AD 70 and return to heaven with Him at that point.

 

[grafted branch]

John didnt mention it .

He was alive for about 3 decades after AD 70..........nearly 30 yrs.

Do you think He would have missed Jesus's 2nd Coming?

Do you think he forgot to show up, or maybe Jesus forgot to invite him?

So, there is a reason that 30 Yrs after AD 70......John never wrote a sentence about the "return", in all those years.
And that reason?
It never happened YET.

What did happen?

People who get lost in Theological Rabbit Trails invent a lot of Theological Junk, like Preterism .

I take that as a “no”, you don’t have any archaeological evidence and are relying on the assumption that Revelation was written after 70AD.

 

[PinSeeker]

John didnt mention it .

He was alive for about 3 decades after AD 70..........nearly 30 yrs.

Do you think He would have missed Jesus's 2nd Coming?

Do you think he forgot to show up, or maybe Jesus forgot to invite him?

So, there is a reason that 30 Yrs after AD 70......John never wrote a sentence about the "return", in all those years.
And that reason?
It never happened YET.

What did happen?

People who get lost in Theological Rabbit Trails invent a lot of Theological Junk, like Preterism .

Just the fact that John prophesied Christ's return ~ seven times over, by the way ~ in Revelation, in his relating to us the very visions Christ Himself gave him in about 95 A.D. should be enough. John was imprisoned on Patmos as an old man (probably in his 80s or perhaps early 90s) when he wrote Revelation.

However, Christ is with us, though, just as He said He would be to the end of the age (Matthew 28:20)... in the Person of the Holy Spirit. And in the same way, we who have been born again of the Spirit are seated with Him in the heavenly places... in the Person of the Holy Spirit.

My goodness. Grace and peace to all.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Yes, and the Jews are meticulous about their dead. It would seem that there would be a good probability of finding some human remains of a patriarch if they existed. They knew where David’s sepulcher was in Acts 2:29.

I should also mention the Seibenberg House Museum in Jerusalem. It really is worth reading about. This family started excavating straight down, and since the 1970's have reached the first-temple period level of King David's time and a burial vault from around 3,000 years ago. If I remember from reading some sources about this, the burial vault is empty.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Just the fact that John prophesied Christ's return ~ seven times over, by the way ~ in Revelation, in his relating to us the very visions Christ Himself gave him in about 95 A.D. should be enough. John was imprisoned on Patmos as an old man (probably in his 80s or perhaps early 90s) when he wrote Revelation.

It is impossible for Revelation to have been written around AD 95. Impossible. The internal datable events in Revelation show a late AD 59 to early AD 60 date. Multiple datable events. All of which can be triangulated to narrow down Revelation's composition date to this particular year.

John was on the island of Patmos after the city of Ephesus evicted him after the Ephesian riot of AD 57. The "tribulation" which John was then sharing with his fellow-believers (Rev. 1:9) was the same as the tribulation Paul wrote about in 2 Cor. 1:8 (in AD 57). "For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life." John experienced persecution as a fallout from that AD 57 episode of tribulation, which caused Paul to "despair of life" because it was so intense.

 

[David in NJ]

Here you go...

As for your discussion with the other person concerning the James ossuary that somehow they thought proved James wasn't bodily resurrected - that ossuary is empty. Many, but not all of the ossuaries retrieved for study are found empty. Part of the reason for that could very well be that those ossuaries were confiscated by thieves for sale on the black market, who inadvertently dumped the contents as being considered unimportant before those ossuaries eventually passed into official hands. But that isn't the only reason why many are found empty.

Take for example the Caiphas family tomb, first discovered intact in the Peace Forest section of Jerusalem. There were 12 ossuaries inside. Six of these ossuaries, (including the Caiphas ossuary), had bones within, but not the others. Blame was placed on "grave-robbers" for the ossuaries which were opened and empty. But this does not make sense - especially for an intact family tomb. Why would the most ornate of the 12 ossuaries (the one with Caiphas' name on it) be one that the supposed "grave-robbers" paid no attention to? Wouldn't those supposed "grave-robbers" have opened ALL of the ossuaries in their hunt for relics? Why leave the elaborately-carved Caiphas ossuary alone? I maintain that, even among the Caiphas family which was opposed to Christ, there had been individual members who had been true children of God during their lifetime - and whose mortal remains were bodily resurrected at Christ's AD 70 return. Six empty ossuaries in this intact Caiphas tomb speak volumes.

Let's also consider the famous Hebron "cave of Machpelah", in which Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebekah, Jacob and Leah were all buried. These were all children of faith. There is the traditional site today which is called the "cave of Machpelah" in Hebron, but the site doesn't match at all with the location we have described in Scripture for this cave. I believe the true location was discovered by Wyatt's team. This "cave of Machpelah" was entered and examined, and no bones whatever were found within this cave - only a large flat single bowl which more than likely was used for the preparation of spices to anoint the dead. One would think that at the very least Jacob's mummified body would still have some vestiges remaining for examination. But no. The burial cave with its three double niches for three pairs of bodies is completely empty. Again, I maintain that the six righteous occupants of this burial cave were bodily-resurrected in AD 70 and taken to heaven with the bodily-returning Christ.

As proof that Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives in AD 70, we can examine the description of this predicted return in Zechariah 14:4-5 IN THE LXX - not in the other translations which err in translating some of the language. This text does NOT teach that people would "flee" through a valley created by the Lord standing on the Mount of Olives. Wrong translation.

The better LXX translation reads as follows for Zech. 14:4-5: "And his feet shall stand in that day on the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave asunder, half of it toward the east and the west, a very great division; and half the mountain shall lean to the north, and half of it to the south. And the valley of my mountains shall be CLOSED UP, and the valley of the mountains shall be joined on to Jasod, and shall be BLOCKED UP as it was blocked up in the days of the earthquake, in the days of Ozias king of Juda; and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with him."

This is describing an earthquake at the Mount of Olives location when Christ returns, with the crest of the Mount of Olives breaking apart and "leaning" or falling downhill in all directions - north, south, east, and west. This resulting landslide rubble falling downhill would "CLOSE UP" or "BLOCK UP" the Kidron Valley as far as the "Jasod" location. This is the "Azal" location which the KJV writes about, which actually shows up on today's maps as the "Wadi Yasul", just off the far southeastern corner of Jerusalem's walls. Nobody was going to "flee" through this valley at Christ's bodily return, because it was going to be "blocked up" or "closed up" when Christ set foot on the Mount of Olives at that second coming return.

Archaeologists have examined the top layers which currently fill the bed of the Kidron Valley, and have discovered that there is a 40' layer which has been deposited there around the AD 70 time frame, and with yet another layer below that one (deposited in King Uzziah's days during that earthquake). This topmost 40' layer has moved the deepest part of the bed of the Kidron Valley about 70' further away from the walls of Jerusalem than it was in Christ's days. In other words, the current-day Mount of Olives isn't nearly as steep as it used to be in Christ's days, because the top of the Mount of Olives broke apart at Christ's bodily return in AD 70, with all that landslide rubble falling downhill to "close up" the Kidron Valley and "block it up" as far as the Azal location.

And since we know that this earthquake at Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives was to be accompanied by a resurrection, and those resurrected ones being caught up together with Him to meet the Lord in the air to return to heaven with Him, this dates Christ's return to the date of that topmost earthquake rubble layer. He left His "calling card" of landslide rubble lying in the Kidron Valley back then as proof that He came exactly where and when He was predicted to bodily return.

Daniel 12:11-13 had predicted this resurrection, and he dated it to arrive 1,335 days after those two predicted events would take place during the same season of time. Those two events in Daniel 12:11 occurred in AD 66, with the end of the 1,335th day countdown falling on AD 70's Pentecost day in Jerusalem - the date of Christ's second coming return.

We should also realize the significance of the eastern gate of the temple which Ezekiel 46 described. For that rebuilt temple constructed at Zerubbabel's directions, the people of Israel in the post-exilic return were to worship as they stood facing that eastern gate in the Sabbaths and the new moons (Ez. 46:1-3). This gate was only for the "prince" of the people to enter AND LEAVE by that gate (Ez. 46:8). The significance of the people of Israel worshipping at that particular location and at those particular times was to symbolize both the location and time for where and when "Messiah the Prince" would both enter AND LEAVE this world to return to heaven along with the bodily-resurrected saints.

NOTE: Once that Jerusalem temple was torn down in September of AD 70, that eastern gate of the temple was also torn down - because by then, the significance of that eastern gate's existence would have been fulfilled by Christ having bodily returned to the Mount of Olives location AND LEFT from that eastern side of Jerusalem's walls. There would be no more reason for that temple and its eastern gate to exist, once it had fulfilled its intended purpose.

There is only One Resurrection unto Glorification and it will only occur at His Second Coming = OT Prophets, GOSPEL, Apostles, Revelation

 

[David in NJ]

Here you go...

As for your discussion with the other person concerning the James ossuary that somehow they thought proved James wasn't bodily resurrected - that ossuary is empty. Many, but not all of the ossuaries retrieved for study are found empty. Part of the reason for that could very well be that those ossuaries were confiscated by thieves for sale on the black market, who inadvertently dumped the contents as being considered unimportant before those ossuaries eventually passed into official hands. But that isn't the only reason why many are found empty.

Take for example the Caiphas family tomb, first discovered intact in the Peace Forest section of Jerusalem. There were 12 ossuaries inside. Six of these ossuaries, (including the Caiphas ossuary), had bones within, but not the others. Blame was placed on "grave-robbers" for the ossuaries which were opened and empty. But this does not make sense - especially for an intact family tomb. Why would the most ornate of the 12 ossuaries (the one with Caiphas' name on it) be one that the supposed "grave-robbers" paid no attention to? Wouldn't those supposed "grave-robbers" have opened ALL of the ossuaries in their hunt for relics? Why leave the elaborately-carved Caiphas ossuary alone? I maintain that, even among the Caiphas family which was opposed to Christ, there had been individual members who had been true children of God during their lifetime - and whose mortal remains were bodily resurrected at Christ's AD 70 return. Six empty ossuaries in this intact Caiphas tomb speak volumes.

Let's also consider the famous Hebron "cave of Machpelah", in which Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebekah, Jacob and Leah were all buried. These were all children of faith. There is the traditional site today which is called the "cave of Machpelah" in Hebron, but the site doesn't match at all with the location we have described in Scripture for this cave. I believe the true location was discovered by Wyatt's team. This "cave of Machpelah" was entered and examined, and no bones whatever were found within this cave - only a large flat single bowl which more than likely was used for the preparation of spices to anoint the dead. One would think that at the very least Jacob's mummified body would still have some vestiges remaining for examination. But no. The burial cave with its three double niches for three pairs of bodies is completely empty. Again, I maintain that the six righteous occupants of this burial cave were bodily-resurrected in AD 70 and taken to heaven with the bodily-returning Christ.

As proof that Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives in AD 70, we can examine the description of this predicted return in Zechariah 14:4-5 IN THE LXX - not in the other translations which err in translating some of the language. This text does NOT teach that people would "flee" through a valley created by the Lord standing on the Mount of Olives. Wrong translation.

The better LXX translation reads as follows for Zech. 14:4-5: "And his feet shall stand in that day on the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave asunder, half of it toward the east and the west, a very great division; and half the mountain shall lean to the north, and half of it to the south. And the valley of my mountains shall be CLOSED UP, and the valley of the mountains shall be joined on to Jasod, and shall be BLOCKED UP as it was blocked up in the days of the earthquake, in the days of Ozias king of Juda; and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with him."

This is describing an earthquake at the Mount of Olives location when Christ returns, with the crest of the Mount of Olives breaking apart and "leaning" or falling downhill in all directions - north, south, east, and west. This resulting landslide rubble falling downhill would "CLOSE UP" or "BLOCK UP" the Kidron Valley as far as the "Jasod" location. This is the "Azal" location which the KJV writes about, which actually shows up on today's maps as the "Wadi Yasul", just off the far southeastern corner of Jerusalem's walls. Nobody was going to "flee" through this valley at Christ's bodily return, because it was going to be "blocked up" or "closed up" when Christ set foot on the Mount of Olives at that second coming return.

Archaeologists have examined the top layers which currently fill the bed of the Kidron Valley, and have discovered that there is a 40' layer which has been deposited there around the AD 70 time frame, and with yet another layer below that one (deposited in King Uzziah's days during that earthquake). This topmost 40' layer has moved the deepest part of the bed of the Kidron Valley about 70' further away from the walls of Jerusalem than it was in Christ's days. In other words, the current-day Mount of Olives isn't nearly as steep as it used to be in Christ's days, because the top of the Mount of Olives broke apart at Christ's bodily return in AD 70, with all that landslide rubble falling downhill to "close up" the Kidron Valley and "block it up" as far as the Azal location.

And since we know that this earthquake at Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives was to be accompanied by a resurrection, and those resurrected ones being caught up together with Him to meet the Lord in the air to return to heaven with Him, this dates Christ's return to the date of that topmost earthquake rubble layer. He left His "calling card" of landslide rubble lying in the Kidron Valley back then as proof that He came exactly where and when He was predicted to bodily return.

Daniel 12:11-13 had predicted this resurrection, and he dated it to arrive 1,335 days after those two predicted events would take place during the same season of time. Those two events in Daniel 12:11 occurred in AD 66, with the end of the 1,335th day countdown falling on AD 70's Pentecost day in Jerusalem - the date of Christ's second coming return.

We should also realize the significance of the eastern gate of the temple which Ezekiel 46 described. For that rebuilt temple constructed at Zerubbabel's directions, the people of Israel in the post-exilic return were to worship as they stood facing that eastern gate in the Sabbaths and the new moons (Ez. 46:1-3). This gate was only for the "prince" of the people to enter AND LEAVE by that gate (Ez. 46:8). The significance of the people of Israel worshipping at that particular location and at those particular times was to symbolize both the location and time for where and when "Messiah the Prince" would both enter AND LEAVE this world to return to heaven along with the bodily-resurrected saints.

NOTE: Once that Jerusalem temple was torn down in September of AD 70, that eastern gate of the temple was also torn down - because by then, the significance of that eastern gate's existence would have been fulfilled by Christ having bodily returned to the Mount of Olives location AND LEFT from that eastern side of Jerusalem's walls. There would be no more reason for that temple and its eastern gate to exist, once it had fulfilled its intended purpose.

This is for you and @grafted branch

Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.
15Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
17And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
19Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

 

[Behold]

Revelation was written by John somewhere between late AD 59 and early AD 60,

Meaningless.

Listen carefully this time.

John lived 29 yrs, after AD 70.
So, If Jesus returned, then JOHN would have SEEN HIM, as Jesus would have found "the beloved Disciple" "whom Jesus loved".

Hello DUH .

Where is the verse, the epistle, whereby John said.....>"I saw the Lord, He is so beautiful, He came back just like He said"..

A.) It does not exist, because Preterism is a LIE.

Just THINK.

Would John not have Known that Jesus came back 29yrs before John Died?

So, where is the epistle that John could have written for almost 30 YRS........and a few of them, that said....."I SAW JESUS, HE CAME BACK........LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT IT !!!".


= Think

 

[3 Resurrections]

There is only One Resurrection unto Glorification and it will only occur at His Second Coming = OT Prophets, GOSPEL, Apostles, Revelation

Scripture does not back you up in this. By the mere fact that John speaks of "the FIRST resurrection" in Revelation 20, we know that there is definitely more than one such event. And Paul backs this up by describing no less than THREE such occasions in 1 Cor. 15:23-24. These resurrection events were all to be of the same type - resurrections into a glorified body, changed into the immortal and incorruptible form.

We are called "joint heirs" with Christ. That means all believers will eventually share in the very same type of resurrection, changed into a glorified body form, just like Christ. Just not all on one occasion only. Since when do siblings not resemble each other? Christ our brother has a glorified body form today, and we too will share in having our vile bodies changed into one that resembles His glorious body in the final third resurrection event in our future.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Here you go...

As for your discussion with the other person concerning the James ossuary that somehow they thought proved James wasn't bodily resurrected - that ossuary is empty. Many, but not all of the ossuaries retrieved for study are found empty. Part of the reason for that could very well be that those ossuaries were confiscated by thieves for sale on the black market, who inadvertently dumped the contents as being considered unimportant before those ossuaries eventually passed into official hands. But that isn't the only reason why many are found empty.

Take for example the Caiphas family tomb, first discovered intact in the Peace Forest section of Jerusalem. There were 12 ossuaries inside. Six of these ossuaries, (including the Caiphas ossuary), had bones within, but not the others. Blame was placed on "grave-robbers" for the ossuaries which were opened and empty. But this does not make sense - especially for an intact family tomb. Why would the most ornate of the 12 ossuaries (the one with Caiphas' name on it) be one that the supposed "grave-robbers" paid no attention to? Wouldn't those supposed "grave-robbers" have opened ALL of the ossuaries in their hunt for relics? Why leave the elaborately-carved Caiphas ossuary alone? I maintain that, even among the Caiphas family which was opposed to Christ, there had been individual members who had been true children of God during their lifetime - and whose mortal remains were bodily resurrected at Christ's AD 70 return. Six empty ossuaries in this intact Caiphas tomb speak volumes.

Let's also consider the famous Hebron "cave of Machpelah", in which Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebekah, Jacob and Leah were all buried. These were all children of faith. There is the traditional site today which is called the "cave of Machpelah" in Hebron, but the site doesn't match at all with the location we have described in Scripture for this cave. I believe the true location was discovered by Wyatt's team. This "cave of Machpelah" was entered and examined, and no bones whatever were found within this cave - only a large flat single bowl which more than likely was used for the preparation of spices to anoint the dead. One would think that at the very least Jacob's mummified body would still have some vestiges remaining for examination. But no. The burial cave with its three double niches for three pairs of bodies is completely empty. Again, I maintain that the six righteous occupants of this burial cave were bodily-resurrected in AD 70 and taken to heaven with the bodily-returning Christ.

As proof that Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives in AD 70, we can examine the description of this predicted return in Zechariah 14:4-5 IN THE LXX - not in the other translations which err in translating some of the language. This text does NOT teach that people would "flee" through a valley created by the Lord standing on the Mount of Olives. Wrong translation.

The better LXX translation reads as follows for Zech. 14:4-5: "And his feet shall stand in that day on the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave asunder, half of it toward the east and the west, a very great division; and half the mountain shall lean to the north, and half of it to the south. And the valley of my mountains shall be CLOSED UP, and the valley of the mountains shall be joined on to Jasod, and shall be BLOCKED UP as it was blocked up in the days of the earthquake, in the days of Ozias king of Juda; and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with him."

This is describing an earthquake at the Mount of Olives location when Christ returns, with the crest of the Mount of Olives breaking apart and "leaning" or falling downhill in all directions - north, south, east, and west. This resulting landslide rubble falling downhill would "CLOSE UP" or "BLOCK UP" the Kidron Valley as far as the "Jasod" location. This is the "Azal" location which the KJV writes about, which actually shows up on today's maps as the "Wadi Yasul", just off the far southeastern corner of Jerusalem's walls. Nobody was going to "flee" through this valley at Christ's bodily return, because it was going to be "blocked up" or "closed up" when Christ set foot on the Mount of Olives at that second coming return.

Archaeologists have examined the top layers which currently fill the bed of the Kidron Valley, and have discovered that there is a 40' layer which has been deposited there around the AD 70 time frame, and with yet another layer below that one (deposited in King Uzziah's days during that earthquake). This topmost 40' layer has moved the deepest part of the bed of the Kidron Valley about 70' further away from the walls of Jerusalem than it was in Christ's days. In other words, the current-day Mount of Olives isn't nearly as steep as it used to be in Christ's days, because the top of the Mount of Olives broke apart at Christ's bodily return in AD 70, with all that landslide rubble falling downhill to "close up" the Kidron Valley and "block it up" as far as the Azal location.

And since we know that this earthquake at Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives was to be accompanied by a resurrection, and those resurrected ones being caught up together with Him to meet the Lord in the air to return to heaven with Him, this dates Christ's return to the date of that topmost earthquake rubble layer. He left His "calling card" of landslide rubble lying in the Kidron Valley back then as proof that He came exactly where and when He was predicted to bodily return.

Daniel 12:11-13 had predicted this resurrection, and he dated it to arrive 1,335 days after those two predicted events would take place during the same season of time. Those two events in Daniel 12:11 occurred in AD 66, with the end of the 1,335th day countdown falling on AD 70's Pentecost day in Jerusalem - the date of Christ's second coming return.

We should also realize the significance of the eastern gate of the temple which Ezekiel 46 described. For that rebuilt temple constructed at Zerubbabel's directions, the people of Israel in the post-exilic return were to worship as they stood facing that eastern gate in the Sabbaths and the new moons (Ez. 46:1-3). This gate was only for the "prince" of the people to enter AND LEAVE by that gate (Ez. 46:8). The significance of the people of Israel worshipping at that particular location and at those particular times was to symbolize both the location and time for where and when "Messiah the Prince" would both enter AND LEAVE this world to return to heaven along with the bodily-resurrected saints.

NOTE: Once that Jerusalem temple was torn down in September of AD 70, that eastern gate of the temple was also torn down - because by then, the significance of that eastern gate's existence would have been fulfilled by Christ having bodily returned to the Mount of Olives location AND LEFT from that eastern side of Jerusalem's walls. There would be no more reason for that temple and its eastern gate to exist, once it had fulfilled its intended purpose.

LOL. What a bunch of utter nonsense. Preterism is complete foolishness. Jesus did not return in 70 AD and there is NOTHING you can do to prove otherwise. We still look forward to His glorious return.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

By now I am used to ad hominem attacks such as this one, which do not at all address the evidence brought forth. It's an empty debate tactic.

The evidence brought forth is a pile of garbage and isn't worth addressing. Jesus did not return in 70 AD. You can't prove it with scripture, so now you're resorting to archaeology. LOL. Give up the charade already.

 

[3 Resurrections]

This is for you and @grafted branch

Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.
15Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
17And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
19Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

You mistake the reason why this error was being taught by Hymenaeus and Philetus. They were pointing to the "FIRST resurrection" of Christ and the many Matthew 27:52-53 saints who were still alive and serving in the early church. Because that past resurrection event in AD 33 was "seen of many", the idea these two men were teaching at that time was that this astounding resurrection event in AD 33 was going to be the ONLY resurrection that was ever supposed to take place. They were wrong, of course, but their teaching was plausible enough to discourage the rest of the believers of those days by thinking that Christ would not come again to resurrect either themselves or their beloved relatives who had since died in the Lord and were lying in the ground.

Paul had to correct this error by writing the passage in 1 Thessalonians 4. Yes, the "first resurrection" was past already, but that did not mean that those who had already been bodily resurrected in the past would precede those saints who were still asleep in the grave. Those who were "alive" but who had "remained" on earth in their resurrected, glorified bodies would see those saints in the ground rise first. Then together, they would join them to meet the Lord in the air, and return to heaven with them. And so would they all be together with the Lord.

The "first" to be resurrected (like the Matt. 27:52-53 saints) would be "last" to meet the Lord in the air, and the "last" to be resurrected from out of the ground in AD 70 would be the "first" to rise before the others.